Ember Buff

[SYLUX6574]

As I've started to level my ember prime, I have found that, despite being fun, she is not a very good frame, and her abilities in high levels are useless. So I thought of a few a few ways she could be buffed. 

 

 

Speed/ Health and shield and armour buff

Give her either a health and shield or a speed boost. Ember gets the worst of both worlds in being fragile and also very slow. 

So either a 1.1 running speed 

OR

400 health and shield at rank 30 

50-100 armour at rank 30

 

 

Fireball buff

Make it so that it sticks to walls and enemies like it used to.

 

Fire blast buff

Slowdown any enemies that are inside fire blast's range giving it more utility at higher level

15%/20%/25%/30% per rank (affected by power strength) and increase damage by about 25%

 

World on fire buff

(in my opinion this ability is very bad and damage isnt even enough at level 30 infested)

-Gives a slight speed/shield/armour/health boost for its duration (maybe 5/10/15/20 percent per rank)  and it gives a cool visual effect like in-casing ember in a ball of fire.

-Has a small AOE around each explosion and deals some damage while giving a blast proc.

-increase damage to 600 damage per explosion

 

 

Opinions please?

 

EDIT: Another option to replace fire blast would be two have something similar to a 360 sonic boom and stun all enemies in a certain radius for about 6 sec (not effecting by duration mods) and deals 600 blast damage.

Edited September 10, 2014 by SYLUX6574

[LoopStricken]

Bring Back Overheat.

[GrizzlyBear]

Ember has been in need of a buff since Accelerant. I don't mind not having a 95% damage reduction but Accelerant is basically a requirement for her to be even viable past level 30 and not to mention Fireball and WoF do the exact amount of damage and being as slow as she is her armor values could be better as well as her shields.

 

Fireball should stick and have an AoE type hazard around the impact area and the this should be affected by stretch mods and duration mods.

 

Fire Blast needs to be affected by stretch mods as well and the fact that only the outer rings do damage is pathetic. The blast itself is the only real use of it. Accelerant might help but they stagger for crying out loud. Edit: Enemies that pass through instead of slowing down could be more vulnerable to damage.

 

WoF is almost fine but needs a damage buff and duration buff. Maybe even leave the area of cast heated or a few seconds that does slight damage to enemies as the pass through it.

 

(uncontrollable love for Ember makes me want to go friggin' nuts with this)

 

She is a fire based frame after all.

Edited September 9, 2014 by GrizzlyBear

[RexRgisIocus]

Make WoF explosion deal finisher damage (armor ignore) or maybe have it knock down enemies with the fire explosions for added cc during WoF (preferably both). This would make it usable at higher lvls (since it would ignor armor) and there would be no need to change Ember's base stats or give her damage reduction type abilities (because the enemies would be constantly knocked down).

 

Fireblast should be affected by power range and it should deal higher damage the closer enemies get to the center starting from the outer ring. Also make it push enemies to the outer ring (like the Arson Eximi) on the initial blast. This would make it a good area denial with high DoT and slight cc.

 

Fireball and Accelerant are pretty good as they are right now.

[Azawarau]

I run a pure WoF ember with no shield or health boost and she absolutely rapes enemies

 

You dont even have to look at them for them to just die

 

She definitely needs a buff but saying shes bad on lvl 30 enemies is ridiculous

 

You cant just press 4 to win all the time

[RexRgisIocus]

@Azawaru we shoudnt have to forget about other abilities just to make one work though.

[J.Jericho]

I was just about to make a post about Ember being extremely weak. I hink I'm about to hit rank 30 with her and even then I'm always getting owned by bleed status effect. Oberon and Mag are my main choices as they have better stats at the lower levels without catalyst (and with them they are highly OP no pronblem there.) But Ember even with catalyst is very weak. I'm guessing the mods will have to be extremely high in order for her to stand a chance in the higher levels. The idea for Ember is great, a fire based warframe, but stats are lacking. WoF is good but i dont personally feel that it does enough damage even after ranking it to max. Fireball feels liike a quarter circle X with a cool down and low damage. Hopefully some tweaks can be made for a great idea of a frame.

[Aktriaz]

I strongly believe she needs a complete ability rework. She needs more variety in her abilities.

 

Three of her abilities are just "AOE Fire damage."

Nat saying she shouldn't be doing fire damage/based-abilities, but just something more than "AoE fire damage."

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but she's the only warframe that has three abilities that are just better versions of the previous.

 

"AoE Fire damage... AoE Fire damage... AoE Fire damage... Oh, wait! AoE Stun and... oh... more fire damage."

[Azawarau]

@Azawaru we shoudnt have to forget about other abilities just to make one work though.

What are you saying with this?

[Dasmir]

-Make fire stacks like other DoTs damage

-Fire should be able to "stun" machinery by overcloking

 

That should work

 

 

I strongly believe she needs a complete ability rework. She needs more variety in her abilities.

 

Three of her abilities are just "AOE Fire damage."

Nat saying she shouldn't be doing fire damage/based-abilities, but just something more than "AoE fire damage."

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but she's the only warframe that has three abilities that are just better versions of the previous.

 

"AoE Fire damage... AoE Fire damage... AoE Fire damage... Oh, wait! AoE Stun and... oh... more fire damage."

 

Also this.

[SYLUX6574]

I run a pure WoF ember with no shield or health boost and she absolutely rapes enemies

 

You dont even have to look at them for them to just die

 

She definitely needs a buff but saying shes bad on lvl 30 enemies is ridiculous

 

You cant just press 4 to win all the time

Sorry when i said level 30 enemies i meant ancients

[Azawarau]

Sorry when i said level 30 enemies i meant ancients

Ancients are sort of like heavy units but tougher

 

The tradeoff is that all  infested are melee only

 

Really staying distant or face tanking is best

 

Prioritizing them too

[IfritKajiTora]

Fire blast, slowing? huh, another non ice warframe that slow down enemies? no thanks.
Fire blast should be repleaced with other skill, bring back armor with damage reduction 40% or gave her that huge Fire blast that enemies sometimes doo that pushes all players back.

World on Fire should have 100% status chance to fire up enemeis giving this skill Utility.

Edited September 9, 2014 by IfritKajiTora

[SYLUX6574]

Fire blast, slowing? huh, another non ice warframe that slow down enemies? no thanks.

Fire blast should be repleaced with other skill, bring back armor with damage reduction 40% or gave her that huge Fire blast that enemies sometimes doo that pushes all players back.

World on Fire should have 100% status chance to fire up enemeis giving this skill Utility.

I just edited the top for another idea for fire blast

[Azawarau]

Fire blast, slowing? huh, another non ice warframe that slow down enemies? no thanks.

Fire blast should be repleaced with other skill, bring back armor with damage reduction 40% or gave her that huge Fire blast that enemies sometimes doo that pushes all players back.

World on Fire should have 100% status chance to fire up enemeis giving this skill Utility.

Nova

[Terrornaut]

Ember vs Mirage....

Hmm...
Yeah.

I can't count the amount of buff Ember threads that have existed for so long, even pre-overheat removal...and then they go put out a frame who can self buff herself for something like + 540% weapon damage or have 50% weapon damage and 90% DR...like Ember's old overheat.

Its things like this and the release of the unnecessarily strong dragon nikana, or the time it took to get Obe viable that make me think DE has very low priority for balance or a poor grasp for viability.

[SYLUX6574]

Ember vs Mirage....

Hmm...

Yeah.

I can't count the amount of buff Ember threads that have existed for so long, even pre-overheat removal...and then they go put out a frame who can self buff herself for something like + 540% weapon damage or have 50% weapon damage and 90% DR...like Ember's old overheat.

Its things like this and the release of the unnecessarily strong dragon nikana, or the time it took to get Obe viable that make me think DE has very low priority for balance or a poor grasp for viability.

im not saying to bring back overheat, Im just sugesting to buff a few of her abilities

[RexRgisIocus]

@Azawaru what I meant is that WoF doesn't synergize very well with her other abilities. In order to have a viable WoF past lvl 30+ you have to spam Accelerant which would cost around 25 energy to have an actually helpful buff and 50 energy for WoF. That would be using 75 energy every time you decide on using WoF since by itself it wont kill at those levels.

 

That amount of energy drain isn't viable for high level play unless you have a Trinity spamming EV. Also that WoF would last just around 7 seconds and Accelerants debuff around 4.5 seconds meaning you might even need to recast Accelerant and that would be another 25 energy.

 

Accelerant wouldn't even be useful for cc with a build like that since it would have just a 11m radius.

[Azawarau]

@Azawaru what I meant is that WoF doesn't synergize very well with her other abilities. In order to have a viable WoF past lvl 30+ you have to spam Accelerant which would cost around 25 energy to have an actually helpful buff and 50 energy for WoF. That would be using 75 energy every time you decide on using WoF since by itself it wont kill at those levels.

 

That amount of energy drain isn't viable for high level play unless you have a Trinity spamming EV. Also that WoF would last just around 7 seconds and Accelerants debuff around 4.5 seconds meaning you might even need to recast Accelerant and that would be another 25 energy.

 

Accelerant wouldn't even be useful for cc with a build like that since it would have just a 11m radius.

At lvl 30 i dont use accelerant still

 

Its not worth the energy cost because things die

 

Given ive invested into blind rage the point is ember is more forma dependent than other frames

 

If buffed we have to look at her min AND max potential otherwise shell end up being unbalanced

[RexRgisIocus]

@Azawarau A max power str WoF does about 10k per target without taking armor into account so I really doubt you kill lvl 30 enemies with a single cast without Accelerant. There is a reason players who actually try taking Ember to t3 and t4 just use Fireball and Accelerant.

 

On top of the need to use Accelerant to make it viable, WoF has such a slow cast without natural talent that it really isn't viable to take to higher lvls.

 

And yes I am taking into consideration both aspects of min/maxing. Even if you formad all 11 slots there are so few ways to mod for increased power str that balance efficiency and duration (WoF is worthless without at least 10 secs of duration). A 3 forma build wont be so different if at all from wasting 11 formas.

 

May I see your build for her?

[Azawarau]

@Azawarau A max power str WoF does about 10k per target without taking armor into account so I really doubt you kill lvl 30 enemies with a single cast without Accelerant. There is a reason players who actually try taking Ember to t3 and t4 just use Fireball and Accelerant.

 

On top of the need to use Accelerant to make it viable, WoF has such a slow cast without natural talent that it really isn't viable to take to higher lvls.

 

And yes I am taking into consideration both aspects of min/maxing. Even if you formad all 11 slots there are so few ways to mod for increased power str that balance efficiency and duration (WoF is worthless without at least 10 secs of duration). A 3 forma build wont be so different if at all from wasting 11 formas.

 

May I see your build for her?

 

This is my rough build on her

 

Intensify,continuity, and constitution will be going soon to add room for rage,QT, and Vitality

 

Might need another forma to pull it off

 

Also considering running whats his faces more energy efficient build

 

Also have an accelerant/fireball build with short WoF time that im too lazy to post

Edited September 10, 2014 by Azawarau

[RexRgisIocus]

@Azawaru I don't see how this Ember build works, I simply don't. The energy cost on both abilities is way too high. Sure WoF deals about 20k per target (meaning 3 targets for the full duration since it doesn't change targets until it kills or you get out of range) so maybe it can kill a few (very few) lvl 30's with a single cast and no Accelerant but you just used 90 energy to do it.

 

With the rage, quick thinking, vit combo WoF would go down to less than 10k per target because of the duration reduction and removing intensify. All of these damage outputs without taking into consideration enemy armor. And it would still cost 90 energy and now your energy bar would be taking hits from QT since Ember would have 300 shields and 740 hp with very low armor to mitigate some damage. 90 energy for WoF casts, 45 for Accelerant AND when QT activates the energy will deplete too.

 

Don't see this working without a Trinity spamming EV as I said before. 

Edited September 10, 2014 by RexRgisIocus

[Monolake]

@Azawaru I don't see how this Ember build works, I simply don't. The energy cost on both abilities is way too high. Sure WoF deals about 20k per target (meaning 3 targets for the full duration since it doesn't change targets until it kills or you get out of range) so maybe it can kill a few (very few) lvl 30's with a single cast and no Accelerant but you just used 90 energy to do it.

 

With the rage, quick thinking, vit combo WoF would go down to less than 10k per target because of the duration reduction and removing intensify. All of these damage outputs without taking into consideration enemy armor. And it would still cost 90 energy and now your energy bar would be taking hits from QT since Ember would have 300 shields and 740 with very low armor to mitigate some damage. 90 energy for WoF casts, 45 for Accelerant AND when aQT activates the energy will deplete too.

 

Don't see this working without a Trinity spamming EV as I said before. 

Of course they dont past lvl~35. The damage falls off a cliff and is vastly inferior to weapons, the CC is very short lasting. She is low-mid level only frame good for quickly cleaning levels.

[Azawarau]

@Azawaru I don't see how this Ember build works, I simply don't. The energy cost on both abilities is way too high. Sure WoF deals about 20k per target (meaning 3 targets for the full duration since it doesn't change targets until it kills or you get out of range) so maybe it can kill a few (very few) lvl 30's with a single cast and no Accelerant but you just used 90 energy to do it.

 

With the rage, quick thinking, vit combo WoF would go down to less than 10k per target because of the duration reduction and removing intensify. All of these damage outputs without taking into consideration enemy armor. And it would still cost 90 energy and now your energy bar would be taking hits from QT since Ember would have 300 shields and 740 hp with very low armor to mitigate some damage. 90 energy for WoF casts, 45 for Accelerant AND when QT activates the energy will deplete too.

 

Don't see this working without a Trinity spamming EV as I said before. 

Only one faction has regular use of high armor and another faction has a single heavy unit with armor

 

Oxium ospreys kill themselves and dont really deal much damage so they hardly matter

 

Other than that shes getting her full damage out

 

I still dont know why you think ember is so weak when im still running around with her near untouched killing enemies with WoF

 

Of course they dont past lvl~35. The damage falls off a cliff and is vastly inferior to weapons, the CC is very short lasting. She is low-mid level only frame good for quickly cleaning levels.

And im not talking about low level missions here

[RexRgisIocus]

@Azawarau I know Ember isn't weak per se but even her 1 (forced fire proc on main target and 50% to proc fire in the blast radius (100% to enemies coated with accelerant)) is better than her ult for a lot less cost. WoF isn't bad but it isn't good either, it is meh at best, which for an ult it means its better to no use it. What you do with a 6 maybe 7 forma build I do with a 2 forma build using accelerant and fireball.

 

I just did a 35 wave t3 def without a frost in the team just because I could keep enemies in a 20m radius stunned almost non stop with accelerant since it costs 25 energy with my build. An ult is supposed to be better than most abilities yet Ember's falls of so hard when enemies reach levels 30+ that its better to just use her 1.