De, Give Us Better Armor.

[ranks21]

 Playing survival like I always do to level up my gears, I really have to ask why is armor so weak?

 Facing a level 18 yes a level 18 napalm enemy on Cassini Saturn, he hit me with a dead on shot , which took 600 out of my 860 shields and 200 out of my 860 health from my Excalibur frame. I could've dodged the blast but I was just curious as to how much damage it would do and how long the shields would last with the lingering flames.

 

That's way too much damage from such a low level enemy to do, you would expect that from a level 40+ enemy.  I had flame repellent on with all vital mods all max along with a fast shield recharge at 170%.

 

Armor does nothing in this game, and the defensive mods against viral,flames, radiation and lasers  are all lacking in their respected duties.

 

Since the first day of playing warframe till now (over 1000 hrs), and have almost everything in this game, I have yet to experience armor doing what its supposed to do  and that is to protect your health when shields are down.

 

 Nearing the end of having, acquired and leveled almost every weapon, and have all frames except  E.Prime, there is just too much imbalance with damage and  protection.

 

This is not a rant or rave, but just one of the many things that needs addressing in the game.

[Angius]

There's something terribly wrong with your build or your playstyle, if level 18 enemies posa threat to you.

 

 

Since the first day of playing warframe till now (over 1000 hrs), and have almost everything in this game, I have yet to experience armor doing what its supposed to do  and that is to protect your health when shields are down.

Valkyr begs to differ.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Angius

[Tulzscha]

General Discussion is not the place for feedback threads. Please read and understand:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/204165-read-before-posting-threads-what-is-and-isnt-general-discussion/

 

Moved to the proper section.

[BrotherIcarus]

It's something terribly wrong with your build or your playstyle, if level 18 enemies posa threat to you.

 

 

Valkyr begs to differ.

Valkyr has triple the armour of the next highest and even that doesn't do much unless you increase it to max levels.

 

And you have never faced a napalm before. 

[Rydian]

Excalibur has 65 armor.  Valkyr has 600.

 

Try Valkyr with a high ranked Steel Fiber and you'll see a world of difference.

 

The issue is that most warframes have too little base armor for it to be worth modding up.

[Ayamiss]

Really? If you can't spot a difference between lowest ~5% damage reduction and highest ~80%+ than you need to learn more about how this game works...which you should if you played for over 1000 hours.

[http404error]

My problem with Armor is that it lacks mechanical significance. Each point of armor is a 0.33% increase in effective health, full stop. The only things that even interact with it are Corrosive and Corrosive Projection. Nothing bypasses armor anymore, not even Poison DoT.

 

Even then, just reducing armor is not very interactive. Compare Shields - separate bar, depleted before health, recharges after period of no damage. They provide a very unique mechanical identity that Armor simply lacks.

 

Of course, there isn't really an easy awesome solution either. We wouldn't want it to be just another Shield bar. Maybe it doesn't even need to exist, and can just be replaced with a defensive type. Maybe it only protects certain areas of the body (yes, it used to be this way). Maybe it can be degraded or broken on a per-armor-plate basis. I think Armor has a lot of potential that Warframe is missing out on.

 

And yeah, Armor's not worth modding onto any frame except Valkyr right now. Even on her, each rank of Steel Fiber is only a 20% increase in effective health (although this stacks multiplicatively with Vitality and Vigor).

[ranks21]

If you have read what I wrote you wouldn't mention what frame has what armor.  bring your valkyr with your best build and lets go stand in the fire lets see how long that  armor is gonna last you 25 mins in the game on survival even on apollodurus.

 

 there is literally nothing you can say or do with any frame or setup that I haven't done and exploited. sometimes take a sidestep to truly test the mods and frames functionality then you will have a better perspective of the game. see me anytime on  Cassini on up to the outer terminus on survivals or interceptions leveling the few gears  I have left.

 

 Armor does nothing in this game and that is a fact.  ingame  name  Ranks21, and don't worry I won't abandon you when you DO go down.

[Marthrym]

There's something terribly wrong with your build or your playstyle, if level 18 enemies posa threat to you.

 

 

Valkyr begs to differ.

So basically go Valkyr or get lost? Nice logic there... *facepalm*

 

Valkyr is the ONLY frame with a TRULY viable armor build. The second highest armored frames with maxed Steel Fiber don't even get close to her BASE armor. Which means unless you play Valkyr, modding for armor is most often a waste of mod slots. What's up with that?^^'

 

 

Excalibur has 65 armor.  Valkyr has 600.

 

Try Valkyr with a high ranked Steel Fiber and you'll see a world of difference.

 

The issue is that most warframes have too little base armor for it to be worth modding up.

^Exactly. The only frame with a really "viable" amount of armor is KittyFrame.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Marthrym

[KorbanGado]

 Armor does nothing in this game and that is a fact.  ingame  name  Ranks21, and don't worry I won't abandon you when you DO go down.

 

Armor effectively lessons the impact of damage on your health - which is precisely what it's billed to do.

What you fail to see is that the goal of armor isn't to stop you from dying completely like a shield, it's to buy you a little more time to get to safety. The major defense in this game is in fact the shield - hence why it regenerates. All that armor is meant to do is to help keep you alive longer while you duck and weave to get that shield back.

The major problem that comes around for most is that your health does not regenerate - which leads to armor feeling worthless, because you are still taking an impact to your health pool when it's being used. The shield, on the other hand, prevents that damage from reaching your health pool at all, which gives you an incredible feeling of use.

 

The big problem you are having is that you are complaining a heavy unit is too strong. It's a heavy unit - a real life comparison would be akin to what hurts more : being shot with a bullet or being shot by a rocket? Well, considering there's a chance you can survive the bullet if it hits in the "right" areas, and there won't be much of you left to survive the rocket, I guess the rocket is pretty upgraded as far as damage goes. Heavy units are supposed to be stronger then the others to cause a change in tactics (which after a while none of us do anyways, but the thought is still there).

[Stormandreas]

I've NEVER taken that kind of damage from a dead on shot from a level even 20 Napalm.

Only about level 30ish will do that much damage to me, even with a direct shot.

Everyone knows armour is quite pointless, but I hope your realise armour only affects HEALTH, not shields. So complaining that a your shields got wrecked means nothing.
Another thing. Our armour (Alloy) only weakens electric and Magnetic damage. Other than that, it's just a tiny number that doesn't do all that much to our 4 digit health.

[KorbanGado]

So basically go Valkyr or get lost? Nice logic there... *facepalm*

 

Valkyr is the ONLY frame with a TRULY viable armor build. The second highest armored frames with maxed Steel Fiber don't even get close to her BASE armor. Which means unless you play Valkyr, modding for armor is most often a waste of mod slots. What's up with that?^^'

 

 

^Exactly. The only frame with a really "viable" amount of armor is KittyFrame.

Sorry to double post.

Rhino, Frost, Sayrn, and Oberon all have enough default armor to get above 30% reduction to health damage. That still practically double (or more) of all other frames. They stated Valkyr because she has the highest armor of all, and makes more sense to use to show you the difference in health damage you would take compared to someone like Excalibur - ie. they used it to debunk "Armor doesn't do anything" which is a false statement.

[http404error]

I think there are a few separate complaints here. Napalms dealing absolutely ridiculous amounts of damage has been an issue for quite a while. Not really Armor's fault. Should Armor be more resistant to fire damage? Perhaps. That's more of a Damage 2.0 problem though.

 

Is Armor still effectively useless on most frames? Yes. I mean, even if you look at Saryn, with her 155 armor and 150 base health. That's effectively equivalent to having 0 armor and 227.5 base health, with the only exceptions being Steel Fiber's effect, increasing the potency of healing, and potential Corrosion. There are effects from having two modifiers to damage types, but those could be effectively combined, simplifying everyone's lives.

 

I guess the real issue with Armor is that you can't really tank on health that well with most frames, since it will slowly get chipped away and you'll die. Shields down means GTFO 90% of the time anyways, so Armor never gets a chance to feel awesome.

Edited September 9, 2014 by http404error

[SPECTR_Eternal]

Do you play in Mass Effect 3 co-op?

In the universe Mass Effect there are several types of protection that you and your opponents are worn over the armor: shields and barriers.
Shields are strong, but have a low recovery rate and serious delay.

 

Barriers protect weaker, but can defend you from any kind of exposure (except for direct damage to health), including fully from the effects of status and critical hits. Barriers recharged almost instantaneously and have very short delay.

 

And my suggestion - give the player a choice:
1. Wear shields, the capacity of which is several times the size of the barriers (to compensate for the difference), and not worry about the fact that their capacity can be reduced.
 - But at the same time, shieds are extremely sensitive to the weapon, causing impact damage or to any "hit-scan" weapons. (Effective against Corpus/uneffective against Grineer)
.
2. Wear barriers which size will be slightly lower (for example, below the current maximum - about 700 units) than the shields, but under the influence of which is the chance to catch the negative effect of status will be equal to about 30% of the original chance projectile. (For example, the bullet of Tysis has a chance status of about 60%. Barrier will reduce the chance of up to 30% of the current.)

- In this case, the barriers will be ineffective against weapons, inflicting puncture damage, but is extremely effective against inflicting impact, with a high chance of inflicting status effect. (Effective against Grineer/uneffective against Corpus)
 

Edited September 9, 2014 by StranniK_SPECTR

[Gelkor]

Armor only really matters when you have tons of it, which is one frame, really.  What's weird is that there is a huge variance in armor between the other frames that are not Valkyr. 

 

Aside from Frost-Snowglobe conversion, armor is a non-factor to all other frames.

[Variatas]

It does kinda seem like the non-Valkyr frames could use a boost to their Armor.  Rhino's the only one that ever really felt "durable" to me, but that was because of Iron Skin.  Saryn in particular just felt slow and under-useful.

[OneofakindKnight]

*I* want to know when we can boost our shields so that those of us who run 1200 / 300 shield / health don't lose the entire amount of shields in 10 seconds under fire at higher levels. I almost like armor better because you die slower.

[Azawarau]

Valkyr has triple the armour of the next highest and even that doesn't do much unless you increase it to max levels.

 

And you have never faced a napalm before. 

So what your saying is valkyr with less than half her potential effective HP cant take a hit from these guys at lvl 18?

 

Wait... People get hit by napalms often enough for this to matter?

 

Youve got to avoid the slow firey thing

[BrotherIcarus]

So what your saying is valkyr with less than half her potential effective HP cant take a hit from these guys at lvl 18?

 

Wait... People get hit by napalms often enough for this to matter?

 

Youve got to avoid the slow firey thing

Reading the thing I quoted adds a lot of context to my post.

[Azawarau]

Reading the thing I quoted adds a lot of context to my post.

Not seeing what you mean

[BrotherIcarus]

Not seeing what you mean

In my original post I was stating that the fact that Valkyr is the only frame that can use armour effectively is a problem in of itself.

 

Also napalms hit like a truck at any level, sure in a perfect situation you would dodge there blasts but the perfect situation is rare. 

[Azawarau]

In my original post I was stating that the fact that Valkyr is the only frame that can use armour effectively is a problem in of itself.

 

Also napalms hit like a truck at any level, sure in a perfect situation you would dodge there blasts but the perfect situation is rare. 

Rhino,Oberon,Frost?

[Vallerian]

You're supposed to be a ninja, not a cinderblock

[Marthrym]

Sorry to double post.

Rhino, Frost, Sayrn, and Oberon all have enough default armor to get above 30% reduction to health damage. That still practically double (or more) of all other frames. They stated Valkyr because she has the highest armor of all, and makes more sense to use to show you the difference in health damage you would take compared to someone like Excalibur - ie. they used it to debunk "Armor doesn't do anything" which is a false statement.

So? I've been around long enough, I know which frame has armor worth mentioning when it comes to "armor" builds.^^'

 

Does their current armor make them "good" choices for "health tanking"? I don't think so (it's only my opinion, I'm not saying people using them for "health tanking" are dumb, that would be... dumb^^). But I think it would be wasting precious mod slots, and to me they're more "bruisers" than "tanks".

The reason why the other tenno I quoted used Valkyr as an example (it's not the fact that he/she used her as an example, but the fact that he/she used her like since she's capable of doing it, then anyone complaining about armor should just shut up and use her when we have more than 20 frames...) is because she is the only frame with enough armor to pull it off without getting instagibbed, especially in close range combat. I'm not saying Frost, Rhino or Saryn have no armor worth mentioning, just that it pales in comparison to KittyFrame's "plating".^^

 

Oh I also forgot : Warcry. It helps too.^^

[Azawarau]

So? I've been around long enough, I know which frame has armor worth mentioning when it comes to "armor" builds.^^'

 

Does their current armor make them "good" choices for "health tanking"? I don't think so (it's only my opinion, I'm not saying people using them for "health tanking" are dumb, that would be... dumb^^). But I think it would be wasting precious mod slots, and to me they're more "bruisers" than "tanks".

The reason why the other tenno I quoted used Valkyr as an example (it's not the fact that he/she used her as an example, but the fact that he/she used her like since she's capable of doing it, then anyone complaining about armor should just shut up and use her when we have more than 20 frames...) is because she is the only frame with enough armor to pull it off without getting instagibbed, especially in close range combat. I'm not saying Frost, Rhino or Saryn have no armor worth mentioning, just that it pales in comparison to KittyFrame's "plating".^^

 

Oh I also forgot : Warcry. It helps too.^^

I do ti with oberon and Frost literally all the time

 

QT makes tanking more than possible with them and powers let them keep up with even valkyr if used correctly