Sniper Changes

[Azawarau]

After accidentally causing another forumer to delete his thread i felt the need to make up for it by offering a new spin on snipers

 

To start, the biggest complaint about snipers is the lack of reliability with critical hits.

 

A sniper that doesnt hit consistent damages isnt going to be good

 

Another issue is total overkill (Oxymoron with these first two right?) on any enemy but only one at a time

 

There are a few ways to solve these issues

 

1 Critical hit rates on sniper drop dramatically in exchange for raw damage

 

2 Critical hit rates and crit damage on snipers increase enough to reach or just pass 100% in exchange for lower damage

 

3 Special  mechanics added such as seeing through walls and innate punch through

 

4 Special sniper only mod for AoE damage (Thunderbolt clone? but stronger perhaps)

 

Though even with all of these i dont think snipers will be as functional as people want them to be within the games set level range simply because of the function of snipers , Lanka AoE aside

 

IMO the best we can do are both suggestions 1 and 3 so snipers have a place of their own that no other gun can touch

 

Thoughts?

[Zagrax]

In my opinion, sniper rifles should have a special mechanic that guarantees crits on weak points (headshots), and should have much higher critical damage to support this. All snipers should have a decent bit of punch-through by default, too.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Zagrax

[Azawarau]

In my opinion, sniper rifles should have a special mechanic that guarantees crits on weak points (headshots), and should have much higher critical damage to support this. All snipers should have a decent bit of punch-through by default, too.

The only issue is this promotes pure damage builds that ignore crit chance entirely

 

Its really just handing the players more damage for nothing and not fixing the problems with snipers

 

They already hit hard AF

 

But not enough enemies at once and not reliably

[Jokubas]

I think it will be hard to offset the single target nature of Snipers in Warframe, since the trade-offs for snipers don't matter as much in this game, like range (since few areas are large enough to need more than the average rifle), so I don't really have many ideas for it.

 

All I can think of is, like you said, some sort of Codex Scanner-like innate ability to see through walls, and maybe some innate Punch Through to go with it. If Snipers can't have the advantage of range, they can at least still be good scout/stealth type weapons.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Jokubas

[RexRgisIocus]

1. 100% crit chance (with maxed point strike) with no red crits (doesn't apply to semi-auto snipers).

 

2. Increased base damage for semi-auto snipers like Grinlok and Vulkar (not able of reaching 100% crit chance).

 

3. Codex like see-through thing for the scopes.

 

4. Slight innate punch-through (Lanka and Snipetron already have some).

 

5. More sniper exclusive mods (a variation of Thunderbolt perhaps?) Maybe make it so weak point hits do 50% of the original damage of the shot in an AoE explosion. No weak point hit = no AoE explosion.

[Azawarau]

Lankas base punch pierce is more than what you can get with Metal Auger and Shred

[Niryco]

Why don't Snipers just ignore all damage resistance and all their elemental damage and proc effects deal 100% damage, all AOE procs will also deal 100% of the damage but do not gain any damage bonus. That way snipers can go in all directions, need no matter.

[Eric1738]

i think at least lanka should use the first method. since in this game, most of the "laser" weapons have low crit chance, including Dera, Detron, Tetra, Supra and so on. it feels natural if lanka follows the same idea.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Eric1738

[AlienOvermind]

Yeah, sniper rifles shouldn't rely on RNG.

As for other special features I only want enemy marking (like Codex Scanner) for sniper rifles' scopes. Or maybe weak points marking (like Sonar, but matched on size with an actual weak point).

[RexRgisIocus]

@Eric1738 Lanka isn't an automatic gun or even semi-auto though. It has to be charged for max potential, so it should either be a crit gun or have a ridiculously high base damage.

 

@AlienOvermind I like the idea of revealing weakpoints. Sort of like that sniper scope in RE4 that you use vs the Regenerators. 

[painterman]

I would like to see pure dmg-no crit lanka, it would be nice, in exchange for vectis 100% crit chance. The termal scope would be awesome with that 5m punch.

 

I dont mind the scope but much people dont like it, so another change: optional scopes.

 

Also could we have a sniper revamp megathreat?, with all the links and stuff.

 

Bad english :D

[Zero.No.Hikari]

1. 100% crit chance (with maxed point strike) with no red crits (doesn't apply to semi-auto snipers).

 

2. Increased base damage for semi-auto snipers like Snipetrons and Vulkar (not able of reaching 100% crit chance).

 

3. Codex like see-through thing for the scopes.

 

4. Slight innate punch-through (Lanka and Snipetron already have some).

 

5. More sniper exclusive mods (a variation of Thunderbolt perhaps?) Maybe make it so weak point hits do 50% of the original damage of the shot in an AoE explosion. No weak point hit = no AoE explosion.

 

Grinlok is a Grineer Latron,

[RexRgisIocus]

@Zero.No.Hikari Aaaahh my bad, I haven't actually used it and since most people pair it with the other snipers I assumed it was one too.

Edited September 10, 2014 by RexRgisIocus

[Zero.No.Hikari]

@Zero.No.Hikari Aaaahh my bad, I haven't actually used it and since most people pair it with the other snipers I assumed it was one too.

 

Really? I always hear it as a Grineer Latron and it feels like one.  Guess the slow fire rate and reload speed make peeps think it's a sniper rifle yet they gave all sniper rifles a scope and Grinlok doesn't have one.

[TwiceDead]

You don't need AoE for sniper rifles in this game, as it just completely destroys the niche sniper rifle's are supposed to bring to the table. Accurate and calculated shots. I say this despite how much fun I have with the Gas/Electric Lanka build. 

 

Enemies have a horrible tendency to line up in this game, so I really only think #3 and either #1 or 2 is necessary in this game. Hell make a combination of both #1 and #2, some rifles get raw damage, others get less damage and more crit.

 

But... On a slightly unrelated note:

 

You will be stuck using the same mods as every other weapon build in the game. You'll need Serration, Split Chamber, Point Strike, Vital Sense and Heavy Caliber/speed trigger. The remaining 3 mod slots will be used for elemental combo's. The lack of useful mods to create diversity is a serious problem in Warframe, but i'll be honest that's a discussion for another time. 

[Azawarau]

You don't need AoE for sniper rifles in this game, as it just completely destroys the niche sniper rifle's are supposed to bring to the table. Accurate and calculated shots. I say this despite how much fun I have with the Gas/Electric Lanka build. 

 

Enemies have a horrible tendency to line up in this game, so I really only think #3 and either #1 or 2 is necessary in this game. Hell make a combination of both #1 and #2, some rifles get raw damage, others get less damage and more crit.

 

But... On a slightly unrelated note:

 

You will be stuck using the same mods as every other weapon build in the game. You'll need Serration, Split Chamber, Point Strike, Vital Sense and Heavy Caliber/speed trigger. The remaining 3 mod slots will be used for elemental combo's. The lack of useful mods to create diversity is a serious problem in Warframe, but i'll be honest that's a discussion for another time. 

The lanka still acts like a sniper

 

But it has the option of AoE

 

Which is cool

 

I use it for both

[AlienOvermind]

Maybe instead of having AoE-damage mods for sniper rifles, we should get specialized "somewhat-AoE-sniperrifle"? For example Lanka could be the one if we remove punchthrough and add forced scalable electric proc on every shot (like Castanas procs).

Edited September 13, 2014 by AlienOvermind

[Azawarau]

Maybe instead of having AoE-damage mods for sniper rifles, we should get specialized "somewhat-AoE-sniperrifle"? For example Lanka could be the one if we remove punchthrough and add forced scalable electric proc on every shot (like Castanas procs).

The punch through on the lanka is a big part of its AoE

 

That lets it proc on much larger crowds and really get that onus AoE damage

[AlienOvermind]

But current unscalabe procs are semi-useless due it's low damage and with Lanka's procrate it's too RNG-dependant. So, I would gladly trade punchthrough for Castanas-like electric procs.

[Azawarau]

But current unscalabe procs are semi-useless due it's low damage and with Lanka's procrate it's too RNG-dependant. So, I would gladly trade punchthrough for Castanas-like electric procs.

Unscalable procs? It  procs extremely often if you mod it half decently for it

 

Low damage too? is 300 low? It has a speedy charge rate too

[AlienOvermind]

Unscalable procs? It  procs extremely often if you mod it half decently for it

 

Low damage too? is 300 low? It has a speedy charge rate too

Last time I checked damage from electric proc was fixed and wasn't affected by any weapon mods, meaning that damage becomes unnoticable very quickly.

And I was talking about electric procs like Castanas has — with damage, that scales from weapon mods and has 100% proc rate regardless of mod layout.

[Azawarau]

Last time I checked damage from electric proc was fixed and wasn't affected by any weapon mods, meaning that damage becomes unnoticable very quickly.

And I was talking about electric procs like Castanas has — with damage, that scales from weapon mods and has 100% proc rate regardless of mod layout.

Im just gonna poke at this a little

 

What do you think of gas electric builds on the lanka?

[AlienOvermind]

What do you think of gas electric builds on the lanka?

I tried it after Breeding Ground mods release and procs damage was still fixed and too weak to consider this build as viable. The only cool thing about this build — it can stun small groups of enemies with electric proc. But again too unreliable to use for CC — even with high overall proc rate you can do either gas proc or electric proc on each hit (I think the chances are 50/50 with two element build).

So no, building Lanka for procs is a bad idea.

[Azawarau]

I tried it after Breeding Ground mods release and procs damage was still fixed and too weak to consider this build as viable. The only cool thing about this build — it can stun small groups of enemies with electric proc. But again too unreliable to use for CC — even with high overall proc rate you can do either gas proc or electric proc on each hit (I think the chances are 50/50 with two element build).

So no, building Lanka for procs is a bad idea.

What if i told you i was wiping large groups of enemies in T 4 def 20-30 waves in

[AlienOvermind]

What if i told you i was wiping large groups of enemies in T 4 def 20-30 waves in

I'd say I need to check it again then.