(Discuss) Auras: Dead Eye Vs Rifle Amp

[DSpite]

I'm not one to complain (much) but there is one thing that has been bugging me a bit.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but both of those Aura's will boost Sniper Rifle Damage, yet, there is little point in equipping Dead Eye as it will give lower MOD points, and it will also do "less" overall damage anyway.

 

Now, technically, Rifle Amp should be changed NOT to give Sniper Rifles a damage boost. There would be some screaming involved, but the truth is, I still would not equip Dead Eye anyway, as the loss on MOD points might break a few builds, after all it does not give many points, and is the same Polarity. I guess a different Polarity might help, but it would still need something more unique.

 

I did read on the Wiki that it used to give 60% damage and it was then balanced to the current MOD, but it does not seem to fit well. Maybe it should be something in between the two extremes?

 

Do people here think that Dead Eye should get another look at? What do people think it should do, when you look at it in the context of other mods? Should it be something more unique like Steel Charge in term of MOD points, or have more Rank points with less bonus, so that it's very expensive to max but slightly better at the high end that it is now?

 

I really have no idea. It just really seems out of place as is, and would be nice if it had a better fit in builds.

[Executor_Aeternus]

One should probably increase damage (Rifle Amp, which does) -- while Dead Eye should probably be a boost to critical hit damage. It would make more sense and be useful contextually.

[Frostosti]

you ll never use any of those 2 auras.

From all the auras there are basicaly only 5 you ll ever use

[DSpite]

Does anyone even know if this Aura stacks? I thought all did, but in the Wiki it's usually stated and not implied, and Dead Eye does not mention.

[DSpite]

you ll never use any of those 2 auras.

From all the auras there are basicaly only 5 you ll ever use

 

A full team wit Rifle Amp will do double damage. When that starting damage can be as high as 25K DPS, I would disagree as to "never use it".

You can keep a team at full energy with Energy Restores, you don't necessarily need to have Energy Syphons when you wipe the field with guns putting out 50K DPS.

 

Your mentality is the "endless mission" mentality, and the game does not balance around that. We are not supposed to fight level 500 enemies, they are simply there to fill in before we get more mission content.

 

A decent tweak to Dead Eye might actually please Sniper Rifle users, and maybe bring them into more use, when running in missions that don't just send 5000 mobs to kill you, and instead require some more surgical precision.

[Briareos]

I think Dead Eye would be a lot more useful if sniper rifles in general were a lot more useful. As it stands now, bows are better sniper rifles than sniper rifles because of the short ranges and crowded rooms you usually find in maps.

[DSpite]

I think Dead Eye would be a lot more useful if sniper rifles in general were a lot more useful. As it stands now, bows are better sniper rifles than sniper rifles because of the short ranges and crowded rooms you usually find in maps.

 

 

I don't have decent ideas of how to make Snipers more useful, or at least not ideas that fit well in the current maps. We mostly rely on ammo from drops, meaning we can't simply stay at range and "snipe", and if we kill at long range, we drop ammo and mods over there, which is just a strange situation.

 

Most of the game mechanics do not favor Sniper use.

 

I would have no problem placing more reliance on Ammo Restores, I just don't particularly like the current mechanics. I'd rather for example have something drop at my feet that acts like an ammo crate and allows refills when standing on it, although it might break guns like the Penta again if not done properly.

[fatpig84]

Deadeye should be a critical modifier and make it a rank 5 mod.

15/30/45/60/75

[Eric1738]

Deadeye should be a critical modifier and make it a rank 5 mod.

15/30/45/60/75

good idea! a decent way to fix the unreliability of snipers, but not affect any other weapons or change any stats

[DSpite]

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Sniper_Table_1.0

 

If that table is still correct, and you use all the standard Crit mods on a Sniper, what will the extra maxed 75% Aura make the snipers get to?

 

My calculation say 74.6 (needs checking), which technically is not that "reliable", as you will still a lot of occasions where two shots in a row will not crit, and you have reduced firing speed from Critical Delay as well to factor in.

 

I think with a starting 30% Status on a Vectis, it's actually possible to get to 100%, which would still be better then a 75% Crit?

[fatpig84]

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Sniper_Table_1.0

 

If that table is still correct, and you use all the standard Crit mods on a Sniper, what will the extra maxed 75% Aura make the snipers get to?

 

My calculation say 74.6 (needs checking), which technically is not that "reliable", as you will still a lot of occasions where two shots in a row will not crit, and you have reduced firing speed from Critical Delay as well to factor in.

 

I think with a starting 30% Status on a Vectis, it's actually possible to get to 100%, which would still be better then a 75% Crit?

 

If my math isn't that off, it should be this calculation for crit.

 

Vectis = 25% crit

Maxed Point strike = 150% or 2.5x

Total = 25 x 2.5

Total crit rate = 62.5%

 

 

Maxed PS + my proposed DE = 150% + 0.75% or 2.5x + 0.75x 

Total = 25 x 3.25 

Total crit rate = 81.25%

 

Of course that is only a proposed change.

DE can tweak their values accordingly till they are happy.

[DSpite]

If my math isn't that off, it should be this calculation for crit.

 

Vectis = 25% crit

Maxed Point strike = 150% or 2.5x

Total = 25 x 2.5

Total crit rate = 62.5%

 

 

Maxed PS + my proposed DE = 150% + 0.75% or 2.5x + 0.75x 

Total = 25 x 3.25 

Total crit rate = 81.25%

 

Of course that is only a proposed change.

DE can tweak their values accordingly till they are happy.

 

The Vectis is the only gun with 25% Crit, the others are 20%, does not really help the entire Sniper range.

Edited September 10, 2014 by DSpite

[Monolake]

Physique says HI!

[fatpig84]

The Vectis is the only gun with 25% Crit, the others are 20%, does not really help the entire Sniper range.

 

Lanka and Snipetron Vandal are 25% too.

[HolidayPi3]

I think it would make a nice sniper mod if it increased damage to weak points.

[BrazilianJoe]

 

It is really odd that this aura is utterly weaker than Rifle Amp in every aspect.

 

The thing is, DE already made bows be the kings of critical. Only bows can red crit. Until a sniper can go 100% or more (Vectis Prime I hope), crits on snipers are not the best proposition, unless you add to crit chance to them.

 

 

40% crit chance * 25% = 10% net increase on crit chance; or 8% for snipers with a base crit chance of 20%. Which can be stacked up to 4 times. 

 

 

Personally, I feel that Auras are still in their infancy, there are atill many more to come, including dual-stat ones, so the ones we have currently should NOT be dual stats. 

[motorfirebox]

The Deadeye/Rifle Amp balance issue is basically representative of DE's mod design paradigm. The more specific a mod, the less powerful it is. You see the same thing with Serration versus Bane of Corpus/Grineer/Infested: drain for drain, even against the Bane mods' targeted faction, Serration is just plain better. (drain 9 Serration: +90% dmg; drain 9 Bane of Corpus: +30% dmg). This design paradigm shows up everywhere in the game; generalist mods are always more powerful than specialist mods, even within the specialist mods' specialty.

 

I've honestly never understood this approach. It seems to me that a more specific mod should be more effective within its specialty than a generalist mod. So Deadeye should be providing +27% dmg to sniper rifles, and Rifle Amp should be providing +20% to all rifles (including snipers). The way things are, there's just never any reason to use a specialist mod.

Edited September 11, 2014 by motorfirebox

[N64Gamefreak]

Two suggestions for Dead Eye:

1.  Make it a 5-rank mod, 6% increased damage per rank, 36% increase at maxed rank.  Or, keep it as a 3-rank mod, but put the damage increase at 10% per rank instead of 5%.

2.  Keep it a 3-rank mod, but instead of increasing damage, increase crit chance by 5% per rank, and crit damage by 10% per rank.  Yes, 4 players with maxed Dead Eye would give +80% crit chance and +160% crit damage, but like motorfirebox said, this is a specialist mod, and the consensus seems to be that snipers are underpowered anyway.