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These Problems Have Gone Long Enough


Sinistro6
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Hello DE,

 

For long I have been a strong supporter of Warframe. I have seen many issues arise and get fixed over time, some faster than others, but still, I have to say so far you have done a pretty good job in making the game better and better.

 

That said, I have a couple issues that have remained without solution for a long time now:

 

1. The "no can't loot bug".

 

This one is old as the game itself, and happens pretty frequently after lag spikes as Client. I am not sure what technically happens, but you just stop being able to pickup loot. This is exceptionally bad when you have Carrier equipped, as the unpickable loot gets dragged with you, taunting you of unreachable riches or plainly blocking your view altogether:

 

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/34097587307375606/45324A9499FE3E864900196CD05C82D8C2EC1EE9/

 

I can't say for sure what the problem is, but my gut tells me it's something to do with data positioning synchronization between client/host, as the bug also prevents you from reviving allies or interacting with consoles.

 

Since I can't debug this problem myself, I will refrain from suggesting a fix for this, but I will ask for a bandaid:

 

Please remove camera collision from loot objects!

 

2. Toxic players

 

This problem was almost non existant before the Gradivus Dilemma. But as the event unfolded, thousands of players cried for blood as every public invasion mission would have AT LEAST one AFK leecher. The outcry was loud enough to be talked about in the following Devstream (which I don't have time to look for, sadly), in which I recall Steve stating that he understood toxic behavior was a problem, but DE wanted to go towards positive reinforcement instead of implementing kicking tools.

 

Well, Gradivus have come and gone, Invasion missions stayed, and so did the lazy players. Since the interest in massive invasion running died down with the Gradivus event, the problem was swept under the rug, and neither positive or negative reinforcement tools were ever implemented.

 

And now, as we did back in Gradivus, every invasion mission will have an afker to carry around. When you have a 4 man squad, that's no so bad - but I had cases where I started a Public game by myself, only to have 1 afker join, and completely block my progress by a simple locked door.

 

I do agree with implementation of positive reinforcement tools for the community. But I do ask that until such time has come, DE give its players tools to deal with toxic players by themselves. 

 

Thank you for your time,

 

Love, Sinistro

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Should I say something hmmm, Oh I know.

HWdiueb.gif 

XD Can't help with the first problem but one idea is maybe is try to find a better host. I've only had this glitch with bad hosts. As for the toxic players you can go to your friends list then recently played with and when you right click there's a report button now

Edited by mistopportunity
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2. Toxic players

 

This problem was almost non existant before the Gradivus Dilemma. But as the event unfolded, thousands of players cried for blood as every public invasion mission would have AT LEAST one AFK leecher. The outcry was loud enough to be talked about in the following Devstream (which I don't have time to look for, sadly), in which I recall Steve stating that he understood toxic behavior was a problem, but DE wanted to go towards positive reinforcement instead of implementing kicking tools.

 

Well, Gradivus have come and gone, Invasion missions stayed, and so did the lazy players. Since the interest in massive invasion running died down with the Gradivus event, the problem was swept under the rug, and neither positive or negative reinforcement tools were ever implemented.

 

And now, as we did back in Gradivus, every invasion mission will have an afker to carry around. When you have a 4 man squad, that's no so bad - but I had cases where I started a Public game by myself, only to have 1 afker join, and completely block my progress by a simple locked door.

 

I do agree with implementation of positive reinforcement tools for the community. But I do ask that until such time has come, DE give its players tools to deal with toxic players by themselves. 

 

I too have seen this in invasion missions.  I don't know if I'm supposed to report them or not but after reading a post by Letter13 about how he handles toxic players I figured out his method: After the mission go into your ee.log to get the player's ip address.  Block it in your firewall or router.  I'm really hoping DE offically adds in a blacklist capability.  Maybe just make the ignore list function as such.

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toxic players aren t a problem the devs can fix easily

 

Not exactly true. I play a good amount of DOTA2. Games with massive toxicity such as LoL and DOTA managed to do it, and things are not even close to it on Warframe (thank the Gods). But the very few bad apples we have, stil must be purged.

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the loot bug can happen when running solo. jupiter is especially bad for this. -- it's not very often, but it seems to actually be related to reloading a weapon while looting. i was able to duplicate this behavior in a solo run of jupiter's dark sector survival. but only within that match. i was running as "friends only" but i was the only one in the match for the duration. 

 

as for #2, well, the best solution in this instance is to take a screenshot and file a ticket and have DE ban them for a few days. (they will, i've done it)

 

it's a huge pain that requires you to go out of your way to inconvenience someone who will most likely do it again at their earliest opportunity.

so yes, i'd love to see a more robust solution to this.

 

i'd be happy if a /ignore <player> were to add them to a personal blacklist. (removing the opportunity from them joining matches you are in, or having you join them)

or have a specific /blacklist <player> where the entry required a reason that could be scraped later by DE for reasons why.

i.e.

 

/blacklist toxicplayerbob AFK-ing during invasion in ceres - kiste

Edited by xethier
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is there some connection between afk and toxic?

 

Yes. While most people usually correlate "Toxic behavior" to profanity/racial/homophobic slur, it actually stand for any kind of behavior that has negative influence over the community.

 

In regard to AFKng, not only it impacts on the squad completion time on the mission (an important aspect when you have to run the same mission for 5 times), but the fact that is so effective (the afker still get invasion progression) only stimulates more players to do the same - as it happened in the Gradivus Dilemma event.

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Sometimes I play solo, sometimes I take time to put a squad together and sometimes I just jump into Public games. It all depends on what exactly am I looking for.

 

Honestly, I'm glad I have more positive than negative experiences in Public games. I have met great people, and was able to help some new players. Luckly, Warframe never atracted too many bad apples.

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THese are 2 problems that can't be dealth with

 

the first one is plain lag and that can't be fixed unless you find a better host. try to filter your public sessions with lower ping (it's on the options menu)

when there is lag or slow connection you can't expect the game to respond the way it is supposed to respond you're taking too long to send your info thru all the party members, the host and to contact the server with it. so the game can't acknowledge properly your position or you picking up the items.

 

In my opinion it's not a bug therefore it can't be fixed. it's just lag and DE can't expect everyone to have flawless internet. all the can do is (as they have been) improve the matchmaking and host selection proccess.  

 

 

The second problem, I have suffered it myself and oh believe me I want it gone from warframe forever. But it's also not DE's fault, it affects them and everyone, I don't think they can "fix that"....all they could do is somehow reward nice actions or cooperative play. Or punish the people who act like that or insult but a report system would be sloppy and wouldn't work properly as it has been proved in other games.

 

A kick system has been asked for, and it's still on "DE's idea oven" so wait a bit more to see the results

 

The best way for you to stop this problem is joining a clan and running things with them.  they shouldn't insult and flame you but help you and instruct you (at least we do in my clan) (and they will probably have a designated host therefore ending problem number 1 too!)

Edited by Domaik
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THese are 2 problems that can't be dealth with

 

the first one is plain lag and that can't be fixed unless you find a better host. try to filter your public sessions with lower ping (it's on the options menu)

when there is lag or slow connection you can't expect the game to respond the way it is supposed to respond you're taking too long to send your info thru all the party members, the host and to contact the server with it. so the game can't acknowledge properly your position or you picking up the items.

 

In my opinion it's not a bug therefore it can't be fixed. it's just lag and DE can't expect everyone to have flawless internet. all the can do is (as they have been) improve the matchmaking and host selection proccess.  

 

 

The second problem, I have suffered it myself and oh believe me I want it gone from warframe forever. But it's also not DE's fault, it affects them and everyone, I don't think they can "fix that"....all they could do is somehow reward nice actions or cooperative play. Or punish the people who act like that or insult but a report system would be sloppy and wouldn't work properly as it has been proved in other games.

 

A kick system has been asked for, and it's still on "DE's idea oven" so wait a bit more to see the results

 

The best way for you to stop this problem is joining a clan and running things with them.  they shouldn't insult and flame you but help you and instruct you (at least we do in my clan) (and they will probably have a designated host therefore ending problem number 1 too!)

 

I absolutely disagree with you.

 

1. While the problem seems related to latency, it completely disrupts gameplay even if the lag spike that caused it is gone. The game still precisely tracks my outgoing damage (I can still kill stuff) and the enemies still target me. While I agree it's probably not a simple fix, there's no reason whatsoever to keep camera collision on pickable objects (which is a setting or flag that can probably be toggled off).

 

2. People engage in toxic behavior because, simply put, there's no negative consequence. You can afk in a mission and still get completion rewards. Enabling Vote Kick would easily allow players to deal with AFKers. Games that had way worse playerbase (specially MOBA games) were able to succesfully deal with toxic players before, so we know it's completely doable. Again, Warframe fortunetly doesn't suffer too much from this, but its no excuse not to deal with this cancer before is spreads.

 

And about the "idea oven", well, like the thread subject implies, it's been there for too long.

Edited by Sinistro6
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I'm not exactly sure how you can blame DE for "lag problems". There is limits to what can be done with that. On a LAN we had Supreme Commander disconnect clients at times, and you are playing across the world.

 

If you don't want AFK'ers then don't play public matches.

 

If people just report players and DE gets enough reports, they can look at logs and see if the reports are merited and so something. Too much power in players hands is a bad thing.

 

If moderators banned people from forums every time they say something a bit risque, half of us would have been banned already.

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-snip- like only count players 50m to the extraction point etc.

 

this can be abused too.

 

the reputation system that has been "in the works" for almost a year would help.

a vote kick system would work, but i have my issues with those as it's too easy to railroad someone that might not deserve it.

i like the blacklist system because it offers players the ability to control their own exposure.

 

no matter what DE decides... they definitely need to address it somehow.

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this can be abused too.

 

the reputation system that has been "in the works" for almost a year would help.

a vote kick system would work, but i have my issues with those as it's too easy to railroad someone that might not deserve it.

i like the blacklist system because it offers players the ability to control their own exposure.

 

no matter what DE decides... they definitely need to address it somehow.

 

Vote to kick is not a good solution.

 

Host only kick is more fair, because while it can be abused, there are a lot of decent players in the community, so I think it will be alright. It will also give hosts more control over the mission. Tenno who can't follow orders or have an authority problem should host games themselves. Those willing to cooperate can join.

Edited by Semshol
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network issue should be hard to "fix". on toxic players, i think something should be done, like only count players 50m to the extraction point etc.

 

A bunch of maps have exposed extraction points, so people might wander around a bit until they find it and idle there. Or just idle and wait until extraction becomes an option and then go to extraction and idle and wait there. It also punishes active players who might've gotten stuck in one of many pitfalls such as falling into a pit they can't get out of, or who were downed and didn't revive, etc. Or sometimes people wander off away from the squad and kill stuff somewhere else which is possibly a lot further from extraction and so on.

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Vote to kick is not a good solution.

 

Host only kick is more fair, because while it can be abused, there are a lot of decent players in the community, so I think it will be alright. It will also give hosts more control over the mission. Tenno who can't follow orders or have an authority problem should host games themselves. Those willing to cooperate can join.

 

Host only kick is probably best, since the host can kick the people anyway via firewall/router settings. Of course, there should also be settings on the clients for choosing to host versus allowing the game to decide whether or not to be host or client or never host. Perhaps some sort of indicator somewhere that indicates who is host. That would also help with people who know they can't host well...they can select "never host" and we wouldn't have to deal with the problems associated with major latency/lag as much.

 

And there should be blacklists so we can decide on whether or not we want to be in a squad with a player or not and the game would avoid placing us in squads where those players are present.

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I'm tired of Falling through maps and losing my revives they need to fix this and my melee glitching not be able to melee sucks they need to fix this and give people platium for our trouble or the mission glitches like exterminate and survival.

 and resources not showing up when you pick them up.

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Host only kick is probably best, since the host can kick the people anyway via firewall/router settings. Of course, there should also be settings on the clients for choosing to host versus allowing the game to decide whether or not to be host or client or never host. Perhaps some sort of indicator somewhere that indicates who is host. That would also help with people who know they can't host well...they can select "never host" and we wouldn't have to deal with the problems associated with major latency/lag as much.

 

And there should be blacklists so we can decide on whether or not we want to be in a squad with a player or not and the game would avoid placing us in squads where those players are present.

 

i agree with this. 

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