Why The Trinity Hate?

[Vargras]

It`s just that power strength scaling has really no incentive for Trinity builds.

This is a problem that isn't limited to just Trinity. I can only think of one other frame at the moment, but Nyx pretty much doesn't care about power strength at all -- it's all just duration, range, and efficiency.

 

Awful hard to care about a stat when you get hardly any real benefit.

[(PSN)Filthy113]

Simple old trinity was the best this current one is terrible. Just what I think.

[GhostSwordsman]

Would be perfect if it weren't for that default helm.

I actually like Oberon's default helm more so than his alternates, and I hope DE adds some more paladin themed helms when they put all the other alt helmets they're making in the game.

 

Off-topic, I know.

 

This is a problem that isn't limited to just Trinity. I can only think of one other frame at the moment, but Nyx pretty much doesn't care about power strength at all -- it's all just duration, range, and efficiency.

 

Awful hard to care about a stat when you get hardly any real benefit.

If one builds Excalibur for his Radial Blind, then they need not worry about power strength.

Edited September 10, 2014 by GhostSwordsman

[Z123FFSS89]

If they remove the duration I wouldn't have a problem with the change. It'll allow link to be more useful.

[Archistopheles]

It`s just that power strength scaling has really no incentive for Trinity builds.

The only things that scale (as of now) are:

Well of life - Health drain limit and drain percentage (effects are completely overshadowed by blessing)

Energy vampire - More energy per pulse and all remaining energy is emptied on kill. (100 energy total at max with no bonus power strength)

E vamp goes from 25 energy per tick to 32.5 per tick with a burst total of 130. More importantly, it goes from 6.25% total health DoT to an 8% total health DoT.

[ss4chris]

Like Reb has stated here, we'll be doing further testing tonight to report more thoughts.

 

Constructive feedback is appreciated! 

Hot fix soon! TM T_T

[7grims]

Does DE not like lobster tails? Oberon is a better healer than trinity at this point.

 

So true, trinity doesnt have no direct, forward damage abilities.

Her nerf was pretty bad, haven't picked her up since it.

[LukeAura]

It's all about consistency. Every ability has to scale as it ranks up and with mods, and the highest rank of the ability should be the 'best' rank, and preferably with at least two of Strength, Range, and Duration involved in its modification. 

And to say she has less options isn't true. She has more options, they might all only be able to encompass portions of the level of power she had before this change, but she has more of them.  

And if you want a high strength, low duration heal, run negative duration. Or a medium rank with extra power strength. 

 

The unranked Blessing thing was dumb, but this is completely the wrong way to resolve it. The whole reason it was more popular unranked because the heal was more spammable, disregarding the damage reduction buff. To counteract that, DE with this change is simply forcing us to take the longer damage reduction buff (and the recast block that comes with it) without making it any more appealing than it was before. It's quite obvious that we want Blessing to be a heal first and anything else second, but DE apparently didn't read it that way. Since they're going to be monitoring in-game and on the forum tonight, I hope they take notice of how backwards a solution this is.

What you and the community want isn't necessarily what is best for the game. Wei Wu Wei, my friend. 
Blessing is meant to be an emergency only heavy heal+Damage reduction. It should not be spammable. 
If she is now lacking in spam/quick healing, you're looking for a Well of Life buff/change. Which I would completely support. 
 

Edited September 10, 2014 by LukeAura

[Althix]

 

Constructive feedback is appreciated! 

Constructive feedback...

 

I am sorry it is hard to make a constructive feedback on a change that have no sense behind it.

 

Now let see what we got here...

So we have an ultimate ability which effectiveness is linked to player's health. However this power not linked to actual health of the player, but linked to grades of health of the player.

Like if player is missing 90% of hp blessing will provide 90% of damage reduction. If player is missing 99,9% of hp blessing will provide 90% of damage reduction still. Logic? no, more like not thought out change. Because obviously QT/R combo has not been considered at all.

Well, fine. 90% of damage reduction is better than nothing, at least you are forcing players to use a terrain.

 

As it now we have 3 powers that would benefit from PS mods like Intensify. Well of Life, Energy Vampire and Blessing. Now most of trinity players, who is running her on high level, do no use WoL and EV powers. More to that - we don't even have mod slots for these two powers. Because these powers are useless. As CCs they are bad, because single target CC is bad. And amount of restores of hp and energy is not enough, and as result there is no sense to use these powers.

 

Which leads us to Blessing and Link, and Blessing now will only heal 80% of hp and shields, unless you have PS modes. Ok...

 

- as i understand developer is trying to get rid of rank 0 blessing spammers. understandable. very short sighted change however. not thought out at all.

you see, yes you can spam blessing in order to provide health/shield restrores. however damage reduction also suffer from it. at some point in the game, mobs begin to oneshot players. and blessing spamming is no longer viable. because you can't cast blessing on every bullet. you will run out of energy anyway. Players will die during animation time of the cast.

 

This is why i had max power range, max duration trinity with arcane aura helmet with maxed blesssing. Because i want that damage reduction on my party.

 

 Your aim was to punish low skill players, however by doing this change in blessing you also delivered some sort of blow to players who know thing or two how to play this game.

 

This will not remove trinity from a party, however effectiveness of the frame now greatly reduced, because we have to compensate lack of healing on blessing. And reason behind such change is very, very silly. With this change i must remove two mods in order to have one. and on free slot i have to add mod that have worse perfomance. By doing so - i will have prenerf trinity with bad duration and range. I see no reason behind it at all.

(i remove overextended and constituion in order to have intensify and stretch) <- this is a nerf of usefulness of trinity, major blow on her perfomance.

And if i leave blessing without PS modes, these 80% will hinder my party later on.

 

Again dear Digital Extremes you are trying to balance your game on low level of gameplay, be it player's skill or difficulty. Perhaps it is because developer have no knowledge of how to play their own game.

 

My constructive feedback in tldr mode: Please think before you do. Please think through - what consequences will your change have on gameplay in general, and not only on one of its aspects. Do not make short sighted, needless changes.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Althix

[Tveoh]

I suppose i need to play as my trinity to get a feel for this healing change..  but if it heals 40/60/70/80 precent of health when used..   Is that a precentage from how much health was lost or from the frames max total?   If its a precentage from how much you have lost.. could be an issue,  but if its from your max total health.. then i don't see a problem.     lets say you have 100 health..  you lose 20 and a trinity uses an unranked blessing..  you will regain 40 hp cause 40% of 100 is 40 .  etc etc as the mod is ranked up.

 

But as I said I need to use my trinity and see just what the change was when i comes to healing.  Is it based off of lost HP or from Total HP of the frame.  or even from Trinity'd Total HP?  

[ComfyOlivia]

The recent nerf was pretty unfair. If we go to what it was before this 14.6 nerf, I would have to say it needs some sort of change. Idk about a buff and definitely not a nerf.

 

Blessing is great, but it's not really essential in basically all situations. You heal your teammates to full health from anywhere plus some immunity? Sounds OP, sure, but in the situations in which it's actually necessary, the person is either gonna die anyway because of how fast they're dropping (example being going 1v1 with a heavy gunner. That teammate is basically a goner if they don't get the hell out of there or kill the gunner quick), or when they're dropping so fast the Trin can't properly respond (this is partially due to the cast time of Blessing and the game's fast pace) and they die before the Trin even sees it.

 

Well of Life isn't really useful, but most frames have at least one useless move. (works okay on lower level bosses)

 

Energy Vampire is nice, but can easily be substituted with an Energy Siphon, which then allows given squad to open up a spot for a useful frame where lots of energy matters.

 

Link is okay, but hardly allows for any sort of tanking like some people say. Even with a Potato'd Trinity and all around maxed out mods, I hardly see damage slow down in Void missions and on other higher level missions. 

 

Trinity is okay, but is hardly practical. When people need a great team to go farm on missions, nobody ever asks for a healer frame because there's hardly any point. Only Two are Trin and Oberon. Anyone can get their hands on a Oberon and it can now act as both a DPS and some Healing. The Trinity is slow, not practical, and a nerf just adds insult to injury.

[Anatasia]

This is why i had max power range, max duration trinity with arcane aura helmet with maxed blesssing. Because i want that damage reduction on my party.

 

 Your aim was to punish low skill players, however by doing this change in blessing you also delivered some sort of blow to players who know thing or two how to play this game.

 

As much I as agreed with most of what you said, this particular lines bugged me slightly.

 

I play Trinity most of my time in Warframe, after the nerf on her Blessing (Before invulnerability on Blessing->after) I was using a max duration build, maxed Blessing and Arcane Aura helmet as well but over time I switched to the spammable build because in my opinion the damage reduction buff seemed rather insignificant, at times it seems to negate less than it should, resulting in having to wait out for Blessing to end to reuse it again. Also it felt rather impossible to achieve a high amount of damage reduction to impact the team (most tower missions I played with this build ended up with my team mates dying almost as soon as their shields went down, Blessing was in mid-cast during this time).

 

So I was wondering, am I missing something? Perhaps you could tell me about it?

 

Edit: No hate intended (if I sounded hostile), pure curiosity here ><

Edited September 10, 2014 by Anatasia

[4ever4gotin]

E vamp goes from 25 energy per tick to 32.5 per tick with a burst total of 130. More importantly, it goes from 6.25% total health DoT to an 8% total health DoT.

 

But if i kill the enemy that`s marked it`ll just dump all the energy out. Making that extra 30 energy rather meaningless.

 

And 8% DoT, while in my book any damage is good damage it`s only single target and I usually prioritize weaker enemies so I can fill my team`s power up, who are usually packing the pain with offensive frames.

[Aidyn]

I don't understand, as a main Trinity player, for the nerf. However, if it's because of the unranked blessing spam thing? Why don't you simply make it still scale up, but 100% at MAX so it doesn't punish the ones who used it the way it was 'intended?" Sacrificing an extra mod space for power strength to get what you had isn't an answer instead, in my opinion.

[PurpleBomber]

They tweaked Energy Vampire some time ago (I forget which patch) so that the tagged enemy will cough up a fair amount of the energy all at once when it dies, so that's not as much of an issue as it used to be. Power Strength affects Well of Life, Energy Vampire, and now Blessing (does nothing to Link), but since Well of Life isn't exactly useful, that's basically 2 skills you're getting Intensify for.

 

 

I don't understand, as a main Trinity player, for the nerf. However, if it's because of the unranked blessing spam thing? Why don't you simply make it still scale up, but 100% at MAX so it doesn't punish the ones who used it the way it was 'intended?" Sacrificing an extra mod space for power strength to get what you had isn't an answer instead, in my opinion.

 

It's really goofy in the first place that ranking up Blessing makes it take longer to recast. If not removing the recast block altogether, DE really ought to consider changing how this damage reduction buff works on the skill because it has some really strange consequences.

[LukeAura]

But if i kill the enemy that`s marked it`ll just dump all the energy out. Making that extra 30 energy rather meaningless.

 

And 8% DoT, while in my book any damage is good damage it`s only single target and I usually prioritize weaker enemies so I can fill my team`s power up, who are usually packing the pain with offensive frames.

half the frames have an energy cap of 225, and all frames have access to flow. 

That 30 is likely not meaningless. 

 

 

They tweaked Energy Vampire some time ago (I forget which patch) so that the tagged enemy will cough up a fair amount of the energy all at once when it dies, so that's not as much of an issue as it used to be. Power Strength affects Well of Life, Energy Vampire, and now Blessing (does nothing to Link), but since Well of Life isn't exactly useful, that's basically 2 skills you're getting Intensify for.

That's sitll half her kit, comprising two of her 'good' skills as well.  

And that only means Well of life needs a buff, and Link may need a Power Strength modification.

Blessing should not be a spammable skill, that would be unhealthy to have that much power made spammable.  

Edited September 10, 2014 by LukeAura

[(PSN)iBoiz]

yet another Trinity nerf. Whats wrong with these nerfs every single patch

[JohnProdman]

Pretty much.

 

There's a reason why people always ask for Vauban in ODD.

They already indirectly nerfed Vauban by making him prioritized when an ancient is looking for something to grapple. It's even worse now that they have double the grapple range.

[ss4chris]

30 waves t4 def.  couple people downed. ez pz to revive though and  kept  people healthy most of the game we would have kept going but out banshee d/ced. screw you DE and your bugs Q_Q

 

max blessing and intensfiy. 100 percent heal back

 

 im adjusting to the nerf okay i guess.  took out a mod for intensify.

[JohnProdman]

screw you DE 

In what world is it okay to act like this?

 

Oh, I forgot. Society is entitled and nobody has any respect.

[PurpleBomber]

That's sitll half her kit, comprising two of her 'good' skills as well.  

And that only means Well of life needs a buff, and Link may need a Power Strength modification.

Blessing should not be a spammable skill, that would be unhealthy to have that much power made spammable.  

 

Because Blessing was the most OP spammable skill... Oh wait.

 

*Chaos*

*Vortex*

*M. Prime*

 

Just because it's a heal doesn't make it OP, as in Warframe CC is often better to flat out prevent damage... if not outright just killing before you're killed. There are quite a few dominoes that need to fall before Blessing if spamming is a real problem.

[H3dsh0t]

Want to know why people were using unranked Blessing mods? Because they want to spam the ability? Not really, its because the damage reduction is completely useless. Either it just straight up doesn't work, or it makes so little difference in the first place that people mod to get the lowest heal cast time possible. This change to trinity just put her into a LONG line of warframes that now require no thinking in terms of her build. The fact that power strength had little effect on her meant that you could build her differently. I went through and did builds for 5 warframes today (not trinity) and when you have power strength involved, the builds are all EXACTLY the same, now after this change, trinities build is going to be the exact same generic build that goes on any other frame. What needs to be done is to look at her in depth and not make snap changes that really don't seem to be well thought through.

 

I recently discovered how much fun trinity was, and if built correctly she was an extremely good frame. Now I've got a bunch of wasted forma because of MAJOR changes to her AGAIN. I need to use another 2 forma, on top of the 3 I already used. Its taken 3 forma to get Trinity to the stage where she is a great support frame, if not the best support. This is not some straight out of the box, no potato no forma build, this is a very specific build for a specific task.

 

Oh well back to Easy Prime (Rhino Prime) for me, like half of the rest of the playerbase, god forbid anyone that has fun on any other frames.

[Sea_Wall]

Trinity is the only OG frame w/ no Immortal skin. Proof that DE hates her. 

[TrinityPrime]

Would DE at least consider making Trinity Link a toggle ability?

Edited September 11, 2014 by KnotOfMetal

[LukeAura]

Just because it's a heal doesn't make it OP, as in Warframe CC is often better to flat out prevent damage... if not outright just killing before you're killed. There are quite a few dominoes that need to fall before Blessing if spamming is a real problem.

When did I ever say it was Op?  

It's meant to be powerful, but not spammable. If it is not powerful enough, then it needs a rebalance in power, not spammability. If the damage reduction isn't working effectively there can be changes done to make it work.  

Well of Life is meant to be the quick heal everyone wants, if it is not, then it needs to be buffed/reworked, not have Blessing go back to completely over shadowing it.