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Major Change Should = Forma Refund/re-Forma


TheGuy08
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I may get some heat for this, but I think it would be the right decision. Even without beta as a shield in many games if you gut a class or change it significantly you refund the build points. Here in Warframe our investment in the build is usually represented by forma. Every time we forma a weapon or warframe we make a permanent investment/change to it. The problem is build changes. Since forma cost real money or a heavy time investment it is a noticeable loss when a build stops working with the mods your using.. 

 

I think perhaps DE should refund our formas when major changes happen. I think it would b e fair to lock the forma used on a frame to it allowing you to re-forma that specific weapon or warframe. This isn't about being cheap or bitter. I just think that if you make a major change allow heavily forma'd frames the option to shift to a new build without milking us for time or money.

 

It may seem petty but imho it could represent an acknowledgement of an investment.

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To some extent I agree, Excalibur was the first frame I forma'd and the first frame I got an arcane helm for. On the other hand, it's a beta and sweeping balance and gameplay changes happen. 

 

I'm sad and angry about the change, but it something that happens with games in development like this. 

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They don't have to do anything. You signed the EULA.

 

That is not an argument, honestly. Courts regularly throw EULA's out the window because they are often deceptively introduced and not explained clearly to the end user.

 

Aside, refunding Forma I do not think is the answer... Longer-sighted Forma placement is, however.

 

I rarely put more than 2-3 Forma in 'frames because I like to build them in different ways, and those 2-3 Forma usually have at least one Tactical (~) and one Defensive (D) polarity. 

Edited by Angelus_de_Mortiel
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While I agree that people should educate themselves, the fact remains that in this particular case the burden of responsibility is on the business, not the end user, and they have proven legally that they do not shoulder it well.

 

Aside, I edited my original reply with comments more relevant to this topic, as legal discussion is not the point here.

Edited by Angelus_de_Mortiel
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Ummm *points to Beta* Means big changes can and will happen.   I mean I myself was very angry when the Invis nerf happened but didn't ask DE to refund me my Forma from Ash and Loki since their invis skills are now a run away skill.   Same with the Miter incident. I just understood and adapted.

 

This gets its own response.

 

2 things you need to understand.

 

Beta is not some special shield games that are released make drastic changes to their game play constantly. Archeage 1.2, GW2 ele nerfs, WoW vanilla shammy nerfs, etc, Being in "Beta" is not some special status that means major changes can only happen during that time. During the lifetime of a game major changes will happen regardless of being in Beta or released.

 

The second I didn't ask for a physical money back refund but a refund of the polarity spots. I said it should be locked to the frame you originally spent the formas on in the first place. You say adapt. All I asked DE was to facilitate that rather than forcing us ot buy new forma to do that.If we make a major investment into a frame and they choose to change what it scales with or how it works in a certain perception one could accuse them of doing so to nickel and dime us for formas. I do not think this is the case but if one doesn't realize that this is a side benefit to DE making changes then the do not understand the value of a dollar.

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Oh, right, I forgot that most people are too dumb to read nowadays. When will Apple stitch our asses to each other's mouths?

Its accessory for new IPhone 6. Only 199 $ for @$$ to mouth stitching and its better than ATM stitching from other manufacturers.

Edited by RoboDoge
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Trinity got "ruined" for some players with the Blessing nerf. It provided 28 secs of godmode to the whole team. It even got nerfed again this update.

 

Ember got "ruined""  for others with the Overheat removal. Provided 94% damage reduction to a caster frame and dealt 200 flat damage per sec. That's more reduction than Valkyr with maxed Steel Fiber and maxed power str Warcry.

 

Now Excal supposedly got "ruined" with the RB nerf. I agree his other abilities aren't good but RB made enemies standing targets that couldn't fight back and you had a 4x melee multiplier. All of this in a 50m range by using 12 energy. It was beyond op.

 

Either keep playing him or choose another frame and wait for his rework.

Edited by RexRgisIocus
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I don't think TheGuy08 meant refunding all the forma back to actual formas but reset the frame with x many formas to be use on the frame only.

For example, I have used 4 formas on Excalibur with all "-" polarities. Major changes to Excal in an update. Excal gets an option to reset. Once you reset, there will be a bank of 4 formas to be used and you will have to level it up again 4 times again. The formas in the bank can only be used on Excalibur since it was originally used on him.

This way we don't have to spend more money readjusting a build. Since the game is ever changing, this will not seen as forcing the players to spend more money if people want to go all out.

Yes I understand that this is still in beta, but when in beta, feedback on what works and what not is good for everyone.

Edited by birdei
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I don't think TheGuy08 meant refunding all the forma back to actual formas but reset the frame with x many formas to be use on the frame only.

For example, I have used 4 formas on Excalibur with all "-" polarities. Major changes to Excal in an update. Excal gets an option to reset. Once you reset, there will be a bank of 4 formas to be used and you will have to level it up again 4 times again. The formas in the bank can only be used on Excalibur since it was originally used on him.

This way we don't have to spend more money readjusting a build. Since the game is ever changing, this will not seen as forcing the players to spend more money if people want to go all out.

Yes I understand that this is still in beta, but when in beta, feedback on what works and what not is good for everyone.

 

Pretty much got it.

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Well, I hate playing DEvil's advocate here...but it's not like Formas are that hard to get. I've had plenty of void runs where it gave us a blasted Forma BP instead of something we wanted. Unless they removed them from void tables.

 

Leveling a frame to 30 again and again is easy? Pretty sure it's actually quite time consuming.

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Personally, I think altering an installed forma could be a plausible credit sink.  While credits do not mean much to many long-time players, forma do not mean much either so this change would not make any difference for them.  For new or players with not as much time invested these balance changes can absolutely break all of their previous efforts.

 

In this regard I think that DE should allow players to change installed forma polarities for a credit fee as opposed to outright refunding them.  This would make balance changes something that requires a new strategy instead of something that causes outright frustration as previous polarities can become useless after such an update.

 

DE could even add a cooldown similar to a genetic imprint where a particular warframe must remain in stasis while the changes are applied.  Given that warframes require 72 hours to build a 24 or 48 hour period to apply the polarity change could be used.  Likewise, having a 500k credit fee per forma adjustment would be attainable but still enough to make such changes cost prohibitive.  It is worth noting that as forma are never refunded, the release of a prime version has no effect on the current warframe.  The only difference is that if a particular warframe has 3+ forma invested, a balance change will not completely ruin that build.  D and V polarities come to mind in this regard as they are incredibly specific but necessary given their high mod costs.

 

I think this would provide DE with an easy out while also making Warframe a better game.  Forma, once installed, are still permanent.  Only now there is an option to alter the polarity slot of the forma at a later time.  IIRC there is a limit to 8 forma being installed on a single warframe so this would also alleviate any problems with builds that have 5-6 forma installed already since they can switch polarities without risking hitting the instal limit.

Edited by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph
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Trinity got "ruined" for some players with the Blessing nerf. It provided 28 secs of godmode to the whole team. It even got nerfed again this update.

 

Ember got "ruined""  for others with the Overheat removal. Provided 94% damage reduction to a caster frame and dealt 200 flat damage per sec. That's more reduction than Valkyr with maxed Steel Fiber and maxed power str Warcry.

 

Now Excal supposedly got "ruined" with the RB nerf. I agree his other abilities aren't good but RB made enemies standing targets that couldn't fight back and you had a 4x melee multiplier. All of this in a 50m range by using 12 energy. It was beyond op.

 

Either keep playing him or choose another frame and wait for his rework.

trinity is still viable

ember is not viable and never was imo

excal was viable but now he sucks as much as ember

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@xkillo32 Ember during her old days (Overheat) was almost unkillable and right now she is still viable, since I've played 35 minutes in t4 surv with her without much trouble.

 

Excal is still usable since RB can be recasted during its active period iirc. Missed some enemies with the first cast? cast it again.

 

And before you say 35 minutes is nothing, lvl 60 (40 minutes in t4 surv iirc) enemies is the current endgame. Vay Hek and Lephantis plus the surrounding mobs during these fights spawn at lvl 50 to 60 depending on conclave rating. Highest I've seen them with a full group of 1.4k conclave players was lvl 65.

 

Anything else is artificial challenge created by most people. Things are not supposed to balanced for anything higher than our current endgame.

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They don't have to do anything. You signed the EULA.

 

Technically not the EULA. By playing the game (when you open the launcher for the first time it even shows you this), you agree to these terms: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/28-open-beta-agreement-read-me/

 

It's their software, and the agreement isn't shrinkwrapped. Totally legal.

 

Someone above said forma removal for a big credit purchase? Yeah, that would be cool. An easier way to set pesky polarities to blank at the very least.

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