Excalibur - Radial Blind

[Sev7n]

I understand that radial blind was ridiculously overpowered and needed its nerf. Everyone should have seen it coming eventually and i'm glad DE is taking action against it.

 

However, whether or not the recent nerf to radial blind was a step in the right direction or not; it was done completely horrible.

 

The thing with radial blind is you were able to take cover cast it, run out from behind cover and slaughter your enemies. 

Now radial blind requires line of sight in order to blind your enemies. Horrible move considering there are objects all over the maps making radial blind almost useless now since majority of the time you do not have constant line of sight on the enemies you are fighting. 

 

This needs to be removed.

 

 

 

Radial blind used to have infinite amount of targets that could be effected by it. This means that people only needed to build for range and efficiency which did not sync well with the other skills that required strength and duration (on slash dash at least).

Now radial blind has limited enemies affected per cast and its cap is increased with power strength. This means you will now need to build for strength making radial blind sync better with his other skills. Or so it seems.

 

At first this didnt seem so bad until i realized in order to get the maximum of targets for radial blind you would need blind rage. Which causes radial blind to cost more energy. This means you will have to use this skill cautiously since excalibur does not have a large energy pool making it an unreliable cc skill. It also means that you will need to be closer to enemies in order for blind to work since you can no longer use overextended - which is honestly fine since there was no need to blind enemies on the other side of a map.

 

 

 

How radial blind should have been nerfed.

 

-Increased cost from 50 energy to 75 energy. (this would prevent non stop spamming on efficiency builds which is what made every faction a joke)

 

-Blind duration increased by power strength. (this would cause the skill to sync better with his other abilities and prevent people from using overextended to blind entire rooms since the negative power strength would make it to weak to be reliable)

 

 

 

 

I agree it needed nerfed DE but not the way you went about it. Please reconsider the recent changes to radial blind.

 

 

 

#ExcaliburMasterRace

 

 

 

Edit: Apparently there is still no cap on enemies affected by radial blind. The line of sight (LoS) issue is what made it appear as if it did.

Since LoS seems to be the issue with the skill now what are some ways to tweak it so it does not completely butcher the skill?

 

My idea: Radial blind will stun/blind all enemies within a small radius of excalibur regardless of LoS. Outside of that radius however enemies will only be blinded if there is LoS. 

 

This would prevent you from having to be shot at while trying to cast radial blind and also prevent you from being able to stun / blind the entire room on every cast.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Sev7n

[-Jack.Of.Blades-]

Hopefuly DE sees all the Radial blind topics and retunes the nerf a bit

[Agullimux]

Soo why all frames with same kind of functions are not nerfed same time?

[Yirktos]

Tying the duration of a power to power strength instead of power duration is just silly. I wouldn't mind increasing/tweaking the cost of radial blind. The line of sight is fine I think, but the 'maximum number of targets' is a problem.

[Jahadaya]

They shouldn't have changed it. Simple as that. In nobody's eyes was Excalibur seen as too OP, and nerf-worthy. 

[NotBot]

Perhaps the actually strength of the blind should be effected by power strength, and some adjustment happens for the ability to make enemies not blind per-say, but severely hamper their vision, lowering accuracy and distance they can detect you at. And then revert the other changes.

[Frostosti]

go to your arsenal and select Excalibur. Drag radial blind away, close the arsenal

solved your problem.

[LukeAura]

I've read that it isn't target limited. Someone tested it in ODD by standing on the pod and blinding everything. I think that mistake occurred because LoS detection is a little wonky and they saw units not being blinded in an assumed LoS that was actually under cover. 


Radial Blind is already very long ranged for an ability, with Stretch it hits enough targets you don't really need Overextended, and nothing else in Excalibur's arsenal really needs that much range either. And giving it power strength instead of duration is actually good for spammability, not bad. Max Efficiency means lost duration, At 15 energy the optimal cost, Radial Blind would last for at best without sacrificing any range 17.7 seconds+the initial stun, requiring two duration mods and two efficiency mods. In your build, At 19 energy the optimal energy cost because duration isn't as important any more, you would be having it last 19.5 seconds+ the initial stun, requiring only one strength mod with the two efficiency mods, or 26.25 seconds with Blind rage without sacrificing anything.
You've buffed it to be even stronger really. And then all that power strength will massively increase you presumed target limit any ways to what would be more than enough unless stupidly small to begin with.

You should be asking for Slash Dash and Super Jump buffs now, because theoretically there is excellent synergy in a kit that is balanced between mobility and line of sight requirements. It just needs some touch ups to be as flexible and awesome in practice as it is in theory. 

 

[Pearlkryer]

DE buffing excalibur be like "Superjump now does 100/200/300/400 damage when landing!!!!!111"

[Noble_Cactus]

I'm actually okay with Radial Blind being blocked by cover, since this could help spice up stale gameplay. On paper, anyway. I need to see how it plays out in practice.

 

What I'm concerned about is the target limit. just when people were starting to complain about the Terrify target limit on Nekros, DE brings RB down to its level. Maybe they're testing something out here, but I don't like the direction that change is going.

 

EDIT: Hmm, it might not have a target limit after all? Interesting. I don't have Excal to test it.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[-Jack.Of.Blades-]

-snip-

 

yup its all based on LOS if a enemy is behind another that one wont get blinded.

[7grims]

Thats why nobody uses his ultimate (besides the fact that it is low damage), cause those javalines blades get stuck all over the map and miss most enemies, now radial blind haves it too :( making it as bad

 

Ppl saying this nerf makes sense, but they forget to consider this ability like a flashbang grenade, it blinds everyone around.

Either way this was a power, and amazing fun and sy fy ability, and the only good ability exca had, its not like radial blind was like the old nova m. prime.

[FHTheIllest]

I'd love to try new build with him if I could LOG ON. DE please fix this!

Edited September 11, 2014 by FHTheIllest

[Syllabea]

Thats why nobody uses his ultimate (besides the fact that it is low damage), cause those javalines blades get stuck all over the map and miss most enemies, now radial blind haves it too :( making it as bad

 

Ppl saying this nerf makes sense, but they forget to consider this ability like a flashbang grenade, it blinds everyone around.

Either way this was a power, and amazing fun and sy fy ability, and the only good ability exca had, its not like radial blind was like the old nova m. prime.

A flashbang only blinds it's targets when the targets can see it go off. If they hide behind cover, they'll get a ringing in their ears but they can still see after it goes off. I think the 'nerf' makes sense for Excal. Light powerful enough to penetrate barriers would need a ridiculous energy source, and cause severe burning rather than moderate blinding.

[HolyDonut3]

I've read that it isn't target limited. Someone tested it in ODD by standing on the pod and blinding everything. I think that mistake occurred because LoS detection is a little wonky and they saw units not being blinded in an assumed LoS that was actually under cover. 

Radial Blind is already very long ranged for an ability, with Stretch it hits enough targets you don't really need Overextended, and nothing else in Excalibur's arsenal really needs that much range either. And giving it power strength instead of duration is actually good for spammability, not bad. Max Efficiency means lost duration, At 15 energy the optimal cost, Radial Blind would last for at best without sacrificing any range 17.7 seconds+the initial stun, requiring two duration mods and two efficiency mods. In your build, At 19 energy the optimal energy cost because duration isn't as important any more, you would be having it last 19.5 seconds+ the initial stun, requiring only one strength mod with the two efficiency mods, or 26.25 seconds with Blind rage without sacrificing anything.

You've buffed it to be even stronger really. And then all that power strength will massively increase you presumed target limit any ways to what would be more than enough unless stupidly small to begin with.

You should be asking for Slash Dash and Super Jump buffs now, because theoretically there is excellent synergy in a kit that is balanced between mobility and line of sight requirements. It just needs some touch ups to be as flexible and awesome in practice as it is in theory. 

 

 

Enemies also count as solid cover for the purpose of LOS check on RB. An enemy standing behind another enemy will not be blinded, even if there is no cover nearby. So if you see a conga line of enemies incoming and hit RB, only the first enemy in the line will be blinded, the rest will be unaffected even if in range.

 

So it's even worse than just being blocked by walls. And knee-high cover (really, how does this even work?).

[LukeAura]

yup its all based on LOS if a enemy is behind another that one wont get blinded.

Just tested it myself. 

Yup.

20+ infested get CC'd at -50% power strength. 

 

 

So it's even worse than just being blocked by walls. And knee-high cover (really, how does this even work?).

I would suggest the origin of the light come from the tip of the sword and not Excalibur though, as it seems head high cover will block LoS, even if the origin of the light would be plainly visible. 

I think the origin is currently around the chest or waist, so when enemies crouch behind knee high cover it actually manages to block line of sight due to the low angle. 

Edited September 11, 2014 by LukeAura

[Quiet_Time1]

A flashbang only blinds it's targets when the targets can see it go off. If they hide behind cover, they'll get a ringing in their ears but they can still see after it goes off. I think the 'nerf' makes sense for Excal. Light powerful enough to penetrate barriers would need a ridiculous energy source, and cause severe burning rather than moderate blinding.

You try to apply logic to a game where space pirates are space ninjas and can call in a water barrage on enemies from an isivible ship, a warframe can cause an enemy to fall apart because his atoms are unstable, a magnetic wave can cause weapons that use bullets to break and stop working, hell even Rhino can stop time by hitting the ground on a ship/planet, you dont try to apply logic to this game, you just dont. PERIOD.

[Pearlkryer]

A flashbang only blinds it's targets when the targets can see it go off. If they hide behind cover, they'll get a ringing in their ears but they can still see after it goes off. I think the 'nerf' makes sense for Excal. Light powerful enough to penetrate barriers would need a ridiculous energy source, and cause severe burning rather than moderate blinding.

In my opinion, games should never, ever make sense.

[7grims]

A flashbang only blinds it's targets when the targets can see it go off. If they hide behind cover, they'll get a ringing in their ears but they can still see after it goes off. I think the 'nerf' makes sense for Excal. Light powerful enough to penetrate barriers would need a ridiculous energy source, and cause severe burning rather than moderate blinding.

 

Actually, thanks, you just justified it makes no sense.

 

Burns u say? yes enemies are smoking hot when affected by radial blind, they actually release a smoke cloud from their heads.

 

Ridiculous energy source, frames, space-void, sy-fy, suits have energy and abilities, the warframe universe is filled with characters that are abnormal and have lots of exotic energy sources, you may have seen those blue orbs, or those channeling effects on melee.

[Noble_Cactus]

You try to apply logic to a game where space pirates are space ninjas and can call in a water barrage on enemies from an isivible ship, a warframe can cause an enemy to fall apart because his atoms are unstable, a magnetic wave can cause weapons that use bullets to break and stop working, hell even Rhino can stop time by hitting the ground on a ship/planet, you dont try to apply logic to this game, you just dont. PERIOD.

 

There's suspension of disbelief, and then there's making that unrealistic behavior fit within the logic of the game's universe. Radial Blind not going through thick cover falls into the latter category.

 

It should have some kind of penetration rating, though. Enemies shouldn't be able to block it from their friends behind them, and thin cover shouldn't be able to block it either. But if it's something like an enemy behind a thick wall one room over who hasn't even shown up yet, then no, I don't think they should be blinded.

[RahuHordika]

It does seem like a little bit of an overnerf in comparison to the other abilites with blind, however this now puts RB more in like with the rest of his abilities so hopefully he'll get all of his kit buffed.

[N64Gamefreak]

If DE is going to insist on including line of sight as part of Radial Blind going forward (with which I strongly disagree), then it would be nice to have the ability consist of two radii: a smaller one where all enemies are blinded, and a second one that requires line of sight.  With the ability at max rank, all enemies should be blinded within a range of 15m or 20m (preferably 20m, to retain its advantage over Prism), with line of sight applying for the remaining 5m or 10m.  Implementing solely line of sight for the ability's entire range weakens it too much.

[Eric1738]

if anything DE should revert this change until they finished the rework of his other abilities. kill the only good abilities of a warframe is basically kill the warframe himself.

people say excalibur is a melee focused warframe, not sure how u can melee now without proper defensive or cc power. DE u should really look at all 4abiliies as a whole and then try to balance.

u have made so many mistakes, just because u thought change ONE ability is good enough to balance a warframe. no, it's not enough.

[RealPandemonium]

They just need to buff super jump a little bit so that we can jump high enough to get line of sight without needing power strength mods.

 

Invulnerability on part of the Super Jump animation could solve the OP's problem with the new RB.  

[fatpig84]

They just need to buff super jump a little bit so that we can jump high enough to get line of sight without needing power strength mods.

 

Invulnerability on part of the Super Jump animation could solve the OP's problem with the new RB.  

 

Scott says no invulnerability.

So unlikely :/