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Some Things For The Community To Consider Regarding Changes And Some Discussion About Recent Changes


StinkyPygmy
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Ok, I get it.

Your favorite frame/weapon got nerfed (which is an objective term in itself) for one of a million possible reasons.

Now your kind of irritated and annoyed because you feel all that forma and/or the potato you invested is gone to waste and that said frame/weapon is unusable.

 

The frustration is understandable.

But heres some things to consider before you jump on the forums and start making angry and "edgy"  threads about said changes and Dev flaming.

 

1) Is it a bug?

Pretty self explanatory but if its not in the patch notes and seems very broken it might not be working as intended.

eg. the drain on nyx's absorb costing more energy then intended and making it pretty difficult to use as dmg absorbed also drains energy. 

 

2) Have you actually tried extensively using the relevant content and seeing how the change negatively effects things?

I don't care how obvious it may seem that whatever change occurred is bad and has rendered said frame/weapon useless. It is always a good idea to at least test things to see just how bad it is or isn't. You might be surprised. At the very least you can say you know what you are talking about when you inevitably end up debating it (I use the term "debating" lightly) on the forums.

 

3) Consider your options.

By that I mean consider what the changes really mean and what they effect. In many cases there are solutions like adjustments in play style, better ways of modding that can make the initial problem essentially non-existent. Sometimes the problem isn't the change itself, but an individuals play style or refusal to adapt. Which is particularly dangerous in a game like WF where things are changing constantly and very fluid and volatile.

 

4) Consider the reason for the change.

It could very well be that the devs made a change in order to encourage the game to be played the way its intended, remove exploits, balance for a specific area of content or balance for future content and changes.

(ie:setting 60+ min void survivals as the bar is not a good idea, DE has said they do not balance for that. It is a unfortunate symptom of endless scaling which is its own, separate problem.)

 

5)Changes still bad? Can't understand it no matter how much you try and test it? Still feels like a terrible mistake?

Congratulations! Now its time to go complain offer constructive feedback on the forums!

You've tested it, thought about how it affects gameplay and considered all the possible reasons for the change.

Go make that thread and let everyone know how you feel about things. Better yet put forward some suggestions yourself. 

 

Remember, you don't have to agree with everyone else or the devs. Just keep stuff constructive and useful.

No amount of raging and dev bashing is going to make your argument anymore valid. In fact is just hard to take things seriously.

Feel free to discuss the recent changes that have rocked up on this thread. 

Just be nice and junk.

 

I'll start:

Radial Blind:The nerf to radial blind is bad and DE should feel bad. It shouldn't work through walls but the LOS calculations seem very, very off. Excal needs a buff in general so limiting his only arguably useful ability in the "endgame" is not the way to go. Placing a restriction on how many enemies that light can blind is well... silly. Reducing its spammability on the other hand with a cool down is a better way of making it not too over powered in the long run. Cooldown time could be based on how long enemies are blinded for example.

Now confirmed to be an unintentional nerf when making changes to RB working through walls.

See guys? DE isn't trying to ruin our fun.

 

Blessing: I can't really comment on the changes to blessing because I haven't used trin this update. I'm a bit skeptical but my guess is the change was made to reduce the effectiveness of spamming unranked blessing with a negative power duration in favor of the dmg reduction build. Which seemed like a bit of an exploit IMO. Theres probably a better way of fixing the problem then nerfing blessing on the whole but who knows. I can almost guarantee trinity is still very viable and blessing hasn't been hit too hard. As long as you run with a maxed blessing you should barely notice the change. Plus power strength mods increase the healing amount so its highly likely a maxed intensify will get things back up to 100% rather then 80%. 

 

Just incase: 225px-FlameRepellentModU145_zpsaefbe06e.

 

Oh and inb4 someone uses the term "white knight" out of context.

 

Edit: DE Stealth nerfs are bad. Seriously, please just list all significant changes in the patch notes.

It will prevent a lot of butthurt on the forums.

Edited by StinkyPygmy
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I always thought Radial Blind (at least in its previous iteration) was done through Excalibur compressing enough fissile material at the tip of his sword to generate a blinding flash consisting of lots of gamma rays (critical mass), that will penetrate walls and cover, then cook the irises of every enemy for a bit. 

 

But anyways, gameplay wise, it is still fine after the change. I just have to be more careful. That is all. 

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Here, for those upset about Trin, here are alternative builds that we have been using. We're non-spammer Trins: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/308164-trinitys-helping-trinitys/

 

As for Excalibur. It might be a bug, but how Radial Blind should work is simple.

 

Only a WALL or DOOR or appropriately sized cover should offer protection from blind. Why? Because a flash bang will still affect you even if you're standing behind the dude that it was thrown at. It may not affect you as badly, but it still will. Next, no one throws a flashbang AT someone, we tend to lob it overhead so that, it will be an expanding wave of blooming light. There is also no limit to how many you can blind as long as the room size accommodates. Light does not depreciate because it already hit 10 fellows.

 

Hence, to sum up:

- Blind should only be stopped by walls, doors or significantly large cover, tiny crates and grills shouldn't stop anything.

- Blind should not have a limited number of targets, blind is blind yes?

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I always thought Radial Blind (at least in its previous iteration) was done through Excalibur compressing enough fissile material at the tip of his sword to generate a blinding flash consisting of lots of gamma rays (critical mass), that will penetrate walls and cover, then cook the irises of every enemy for a bit. 

 

But anyways, gameplay wise, it is still fine after the change. I just have to be more careful. That is all. 

I'm sure there is some sort of scientific way to explain the logic of that. I always just found blinding through walls a bit redundant anyway because enemies in other rooms are the least of your problems. Theres hardly any cover so even enemies that are close by wouldn't often get away with their sight intact.

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Here, for those upset about Trin, here are alternative builds that we have been using. We're non-spammer Trins: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/308164-trinitys-helping-trinitys/

 

As for Excalibur. It might be a bug, but how Radial Blind should work is simple.

 

Only a WALL or DOOR or appropriately sized cover should offer protection from blind. Why? Because a flash bang will still affect you even if you're standing behind the dude that it was thrown at. It may not affect you as badly, but it still will. Next, no one throws a flashbang AT someone, we tend to lob it overhead so that, it will be an expanding wave of blooming light. There is also no limit to how many you can blind as long as the room size accommodates. Light does not depreciate because it already hit 10 fellows.

 

Hence, to sum up:

- Blind should only be stopped by walls, doors or significantly large cover, tiny crates and grills shouldn't stop anything.

- Blind should not have a limited number of targets, blind is blind yes?

Thats exactly how RB should work. I would argue that the further away enemies are the less time they should be blinded for perhaps?

That would be an appropriate change I think, to balance things out a bit.

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The reason I usually post is because I disagree. I feel that I have something to offer in a discussion, and that it would be better for having had my input. It's too easy to say 'I agree' and leave it at that, so that's not what I do.

 

But... you're right on all 5 counts. The Megathread makes me sad, and more people should go through that mental checklist.

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It would be just "butthurt" people if the nerf wasn't done "ninja style", if you know what I mean.^^'

I also think it's a "bad" nerf because it was the only ability Excal had that scaled with enemy level. They should have reworked his other abilities at the same time, it would have been a lot easier (hopefully^^') to swallow the pill for many.

 

 

I always thought Radial Blind (at least in its previous iteration) was done through Excalibur compressing enough fissile material at the tip of his sword to generate a blinding flash consisting of lots of gamma rays (critical mass), that will penetrate walls and cover, then cook the irises of every enemy for a bit. 

 

But anyways, gameplay wise, it is still fine after the change. I just have to be more careful. That is all. 

Well, if Radial Blind is just a blind, then this nerf is understandable, even if it sucks. If it's supposed to work like a Stun grenade, aka flashbang, enemies should still be affected by it even if they're behind cover. Not by the flash, but by the "bang", the sound emitted. They should still be disoriented, lose balance and be unable to run and have greatly impaired aiming. Imagine them in a drunk state.^^

Edited by Marthrym
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The reason I usually post is because I disagree. I feel that I have something to offer in a discussion, and that it would be better for having had my input. It's too easy to say 'I agree' and leave it at that, so that's not what I do.

 

But... you're right on all 5 counts. The Megathread makes me sad, and more people should go through that mental checklist.

I'm the same. in most cases I really only bother posting if I disagree or have something more then "I agree" to say.

Its just that with every change that comes along people don't even test things or consider why it was made. DE has screwed up before but they aren't so stupid they can't see a problem the rest of us can. Like Rebecca mentioned with the trin changes in the patch notes thread sometimes they are just testing the waters with a change and want our feedback. If we hate it then back to the drawing board DE goes.

 

The forums just need to chill a bit. Although even I have been guilty at some point of everything I have criticized.

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Well, if Radial Blind is just a blind, then this nerf is understandable, even if it sucks. If it's supposed to work like a Stun grenade, aka flashbang, enemies should still be affected by it even if they're behind cover. Not by the flash, but by the sound. they should still be disoriented and lose balance and be unable to run and have greatly impaired aiming. Imagine them in a drunk state.^^

Thing is, Excalibur's Radial Blind is the 'flash' part of the flashbang grenade (Banshee's Silence is the 'bang' part). 

Edited by Renegade343
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Thing is, Excalibur's Radial Blind is the 'flash' part of the flashbang grenade (Banshee's Silence is the 'bang' part). 

Well, RB does muffle sound for a second when you use it, like it did emit a very loud sound... Though it's true that enemies can still hear you, so yeah, probably just the flash part, unfortunately. Maybe it should have the "bang" part too? Do you think this would satisfy everyone? Or at least as many players as possible?

 

 

I'm the same. in most cases I really only bother posting if I disagree or have something more then "I agree" to say.

Its just that with every change that comes along people don't even test things or consider why it was made. DE has screwed up before but they aren't so stupid they can't see a problem the rest of us can. Like Rebecca mentioned with the trin changes in the patch notes thread sometimes they are just testing the waters with a change and want our feedback. If we hate it then back to the drawing board DE goes.

 

The forums just need to chill a bit. Although even I have been guilty at some point of everything I have criticized.

My first post(s) after "balance" is/are usually anger/frustration fueled... Guilty as charged.^^'

Edited by Marthrym
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Well, RB does muffle sound for a second when you use it, like it did emit a very loud sound... Though it's true that enemies can still hear you, so yeah, probably just the flash part, unfortunately. Maybe it should like a flashbang? Do you think this would satisfy everyone? Or at least as many players as possible?

Then you just overlap with Banshee's Silence, for less energy cost and greater enemy sense removal utility (blind and deaf in one ability with less energy cost compared to just deaf in one ability for a larger energy cost). So not this one. 

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True on all points

only addition: about the radial blind issue these days but has happened over other things before.

one problem is also the utter lack of communictaion of DE over the issue

the forums were flooded with complaints less than 1/2 hour after the update, all asking the same thing: did they forgot to talk about it in patch notes or is it just a temporary bug? the feedback DOES exist

And there is only silence from DE's part. communication would be nice

Edited by manub
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Then you just overlap with Banshee's Silence, for less energy cost and greater enemy sense removal utility (blind and deaf in one ability with less energy cost compared to just deaf in one ability for a larger energy cost). So not this one. 

Oh right, Silence! You mentioned it, and I still completely forgot it... >.<

Guess we're stuck with with a "crippled" (only my biased opinion of course) Excalibur for now then...^^'

 

 

True on all points

only addition: about the radial blind issue these days but has happened over other things before.

one problem is also the utter lack of communictaion of DE over the issue

the forums were flooded with complaints less than 1/2 hour after the update, all asking the same thing: did they forgot to talk about it in patch notes or is it just a temporary bug? the feedback DOES exist

And there is only silence from DE's part. communication would be nice

Agreed. Another thing that makes so many people angry is probably that too. It's not frequent enough for us to just shrug and think "they always do that anyway", so it doesn't go unnoticed when it happens.^^'

Edited by Marthrym
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True on all points

only addition: about the radial blind issue these days but has happened over other things before.

one problem is also the utter lack of communictaion of DE over the issue

the forums were flooded with complaints less than 1/2 hour after the update, all asking the same thing: did they forgot to talk about it in patch notes or is it just a temporary bug? the feedback DOES exist

And there is only silence from DE's part. communication would be nice

Hmm the biggest beef I have is the absence of major changes in the patch notes.

I'd rather hear about a tweak to a frames abilities then "minor clipping fix when weapon A is equipped with frame B using the agile animation set".

My hope is that it was simply forgotten or is a bug.

DE is normally very transparent and vocal so stuff like this is unsetteling when it happens and it turns out to not be a bug.

Leaving major stuff out of patch notes is a big, big no no.

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I always thought Radial Blind (at least in its previous iteration) was done through Excalibur compressing enough fissile material at the tip of his sword to generate a blinding flash consisting of lots of gamma rays (critical mass), that will penetrate walls and cover, then cook the irises of every enemy for a bit.

But anyways, gameplay wise, it is still fine after the change. I just have to be more careful. That is all.

Next nerf. Radial Blind will only work on enemies with eyes. Infested without eyes will not work or and Corpus behind the suit would not be affected by RB as well. LOL
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Next nerf. Radial Blind will only work on enemies with eyes. Infested without eyes will not work or and Corpus behind the suit would not be affected by RB as well. LOL

there is no infested without eyes, they are just differently placed than normal anatomy

as for corpus, their helmets have slit for them to see, spacesuits are designed to resist background void radiation/light I think, but not sudden changes in light level

so your argument is pretty much invalid sorry

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there is no infested without eyes, they are just differently placed than normal anatomy

as for corpus, their helmets have slit for them to see, spacesuits are designed to resist background void radiation/light I think, but not sudden changes in light level

so your argument is pretty much invalid sorry

Didn't you hear? We were all wrong about their anatomy! Their eyes are actually in their knees!

(RB doesn't work on enemies who are behind objects even if they are only at the height of the knee)

Edited by Alphafox
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Didn't you hear? We were all wrong about their anatomy! Their eyes are actually in their knees!

(RB doesn't work on enemies who are behind objects even if they are only at the height of the knee)

I DO agree that RB is messed up atm, never said the opposite man, just read my post earlier in this thread

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Who appointed you damage control manager? 

 

Gee, backseat moderator fanboys these days.

appeals to calm minds are a bad things now?

did you read how much hate is on forums since yesterday? he s not the only one being fed up with "you nerfed this bla bla bla, I ll quit the game if you don t change it" posts

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Who appointed you damage control manager? 

 

Gee, backseat moderator fanboys these days.

How to miss the point in one easy step!

GG man.

 

I forgot its not "cool" to do anything but flame and complain all day.

Looks like I'm gonna get kicked out of the cool kids club now.

:'(

Edited by StinkyPygmy
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there is no infested without eyes, they are just differently placed than normal anatomy

as for corpus, their helmets have slit for them to see, spacesuits are designed to resist background void radiation/light I think, but not sudden changes in light level

so your argument is pretty much invalid sorry

Hmph... "no infested without eyes" Yeahh. I like that. So corpus' "spacesuits are designed to resist background void radiation/light" only?! Ok, "you think", therefore the "argument is pretty much invalid sorry". ok... LOL

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