Excal "fix" Not Good Enough

[K0bra]

Now some people come and tell you how much RB was overpowered.Damn guys you make me sick.It was a well balanced ability like Chaos.

RB dont need any change.It is the only good ability from Excal and without he is a nothing.A Warframe without abilities.

I dont want any reworked Radial javelin.The whole concept from that ability is S#&$.Give Excal a very strong ultimate and not this crap.

[Eric1738]

I don't know how anyone could think that Radial Blind was balanced, it made enemies completely useless even with the little AI buff (sound draws attention to blinded enemies). People tend to forget that the game is suppose to get difficult and not a cake walk with just a click of a button. Where is the fun in pressing 2 and blasting enemies away with ease. Maxed range mods and high power effienciency and you have a GAMEBREAKING ability! At least now there is logic behind it. May the nerf remain and perhaps upcoming buff...rise!

 

TLDR : RB was stupidly strong and now it's much better.

 

Also, sorry if this post sounds repetitive as many others have probably typed the same/similar thing but I feel like this is a step in the right direction.

so loki can press 2 and win with ease. nyx can press3 and win. excalibur cant press 2? am i playing this game so i can suffer and lose? nerf RB then i will just switch to mirage, press 4, same effect and better since mirage has other decent abilities. if that's what DE wants, this game will never be fun again.

[Alphafox]

so loki can press 2 and win with ease. nyx can press3 and win. excalibur cant press 2? am i playing this game so i can suffer and lose? nerf RB then i will just switch to mirage, press 4, same effect and better since mirage has other decent abilities. if that's what DE wants, this game will never be fun again.

Seriously why the hell Chaos doesn't get the same treatment? 

It should require LoS to work too,cove should block the ability too. That excuse about making it more logic and giving that nerf to Excalibur only is quite a insult to the people who actually played with the frame. So much double standar..

[vaugahn]

Seriously why the hell Chaos doesn't get the same treatment? 

It should require LoS to work too,cove should block the ability too. That excuse about making it more logic and giving that nerf to Excalibur only is quite a insult to the people who actually played with the frame. So much double standar..

 

Well, if you want to get technical you could handwave Chaos, as psychic attacks aren't known for being blocked by walls.

 

However, from a gameplay perspective, a max-range Chaos is clearly less powerful than a max-range RB. Also, LoS is a unique mechanic that encourages you to get a bit closer to enemies, which I'm assuming will synergize with the rest of Excalibur's improved kit.

 

Also, almost everyone has played Excalibur. He's one of my three mains and I still support LoS.

[LukeAura]

Seriously why the hell Chaos doesn't get the same treatment? 

It should require LoS to work too,cove should block the ability too. That excuse about making it more logic and giving that nerf to Excalibur only is quite a insult to the people who actually played with the frame. So much double standar..

Because Chaos has higher risk attached to it, but better reward. It technically affects more enemies as Chaos'd enemies will distract non chaos'd enemies. However, every enemy is still capable of targeting and attacking a Tenno should that Tenno become the nearest target. The key factor is the higher risk though. It is better, but it has a real chance of backfiring. 

While Radial Blind only affects its initial targets, they have a very, very slim chance to grenade a Tenno for as long as they're under the effect. And walking will dodge that grenade pretty easily. Less of a chance of death when modded to hit every spawned enemy within ability to find Excalibur before he can recast. It isn't quite as strong, but that's only in comparison to chaos it is actually quite powerful an ability in the whole spectrum, but it has no chance of backfiring.

Abilities can be powerful, but this power needs a condition. It's either a potential for backfire, like Hysteria or Chaos. Or it's a limitation, like LoS, Target count, scaling with range. 

LoS makes sense for an ability based on light, maybe a little less stringent as a flash can still harm people in cover. But it makes more sense than giving it to say, Electric powers or powers based on shockwaves which both travel through metal/solid objects better than light. 

Edited September 13, 2014 by LukeAura

[Wedjat_88]

Because Chaos has higher risk attached to it, but better reward. It technically affects more enemies as Chaos'd enemies will distract non chaos'd enemies. However, every enemy is still capable of targeting and attacking a Tenno should that Tenno become the nearest target. The key factor is the higher risk though. It is better, but it has a real chance of backfiring. 

While Radial Blind only affects its initial targets, they have a very, very slim chance to grenade a Tenno for as long as they're under the effect. And walking will dodge that grenade pretty easily. Less of a chance of death when modded to hit every spawned enemy within ability to find Excalibur before he can recast. It isn't quite as strong, but that's only in comparison to chaos it is actually quite powerful an ability in the whole spectrum, but it has no chance of backfiring.

Abilities can be powerful, but this power needs a condition. It's either a potential for backfire, like Hysteria or Chaos. Or it's a limitation, like LoS, Target count, scaling with range. 

LoS makes sense for an ability based on light, maybe a little less stringent as a flash can still harm people in cover. But it makes more sense than giving it to say, Electric powers or powers based on shockwaves which both travel through metal/solid objects better than light. 

 

At last a very good explanation that will, I hope so, calm everyone the F down.

[HAYABU5A]

people are forgetting something, it was THE BUILD that was overpowered (max range and near max duration) not the actual stock power radial blind

that is an important distinction 

 

people are saying the radial blind BUILD (not skill) was overpowered but what they are not acknowledging is its extremely underused

in most pub groups they have no idea about it 

 

priority wise it makes no sense at all to give such an underused build attention for a change in the first place, when there are so many glaring overabused builds that are due a nerf or change wayyyyyy ahead of RB build 

 

its like fixing the paint on your walls when your foundation or support columns are about to collapse instead (and people really liked the original color paint)

[Archaic_]

so loki can press 2 and win with ease. nyx can press3 and win. excalibur cant press 2? am i playing this game so i can suffer and lose? nerf RB then i will just switch to mirage, press 4, same effect and better since mirage has other decent abilities. if that's what DE wants, this game will never be fun again.

This thread isn't about the other frames though, this is Excalibur's current state, I can go on about what I feel is strong and what isn't.

[Somedude1000]

This thread isn't about the other frames though, this is Excalibur's current state, I can go on about what I feel is strong and what isn't.

 

I think what he meant to say was more like why stop excalibur from being ULTRA when there are so many other frames that are also capable of 1 button takedowns of entire battalions

 

Also;

 

Edited September 13, 2014 by Somedude1000

[Archaic_]

I think what he meant to say was more like why stop excalibur from being ULTRA when there are so many other frames that are also capable of 1 button takedowns of entire battalions

Thing is, we can judge on Excalibur's RB alone without a reference because it was clearly a problem and I didn't imply that other warframes were perfect in anyway, he just felt the need to mention it, assuming I thought that.

[LukeAura]

people are forgetting something, it was THE BUILD that was overpowered (max range and near max duration) not the actual stock power radial blind

that is an important distinction 

 

people are saying the radial blind BUILD (not skill) was overpowered but what they are not acknowledging is its extremely underused

in most pub groups they have no idea about it 

 

priority wise it makes no sense at all to give such an underused build attention for a change in the first place, when there are so many glaring overabused builds that are due a nerf or change wayyyyyy ahead of RB build 

The build might have been overpowered, but it was a sensible build to make for Excalibur, and a very simple one with little drawback.

Any 'efficient' Excalibur would build for blind, any not efficient Excalibur still probably had a powerful blind. Not even modding negative duration would significantly hamper blinds effectiveness, because it has an immutable 4 second base stun that will pull the duration up. Excalibur's 19 seconds of base blind is as effective as an ability lasting 25 seconds if modding max FE on both. 

Streamline+Stretch, common mods would push Blind to the edge of being overpowered. His other abilities weren't effective enough in his arsenal to make forgoing blinds need for a range increase to be Op a sensible option. And at best, giving him a need for duration over range would only create two 'efficient' builds for him, one being the unknown duration build, the other still being the OP build of range modding, it would only feel worse not be worse. It would deter building it, but it would still be the best build.

Any op ability isn't op unless people actually mod specifically to enhance it, that much is true about every ability people complain about.

And while this does partially reflect on the ability enhancing mods, Less OP than before isn't necessarily not OP.

Which is why overpowered abilities must be reigned in first, and then we need to look at the ability enhancing mods as they affect all abilities and might turn some balanced abilities underpowered without their current power, the less they have to change, the less back and forth there will be. 

[Somedude1000]

Thing is, we can judge on Excalibur's RB alone without a reference because it was clearly a problem and I didn't imply that other warframes were perfect in anyway, he just felt the need to mention it, assuming I thought that.

 

I guess so. Perhaps hsi abilities should be improved all around to make them the best they can be, improving Excalibur to a utility frame while maintaining his balanced abilities of 2 defense, 2 mobility

[SIDESTRE4M]

A maxed out Radial Blind build gimped all other abilities of Excal.

 

I don't see what anyone gets out of playing Excalibur solely for CC instead of other frames. (Personally I like Super Jump and I find many occassions to use it.)

 

Radial Blind was his survival Skill. Without it he is screwed, because he can't Slash Dash/Super Jump out of danger in most cases and Radial Javelin is more a style move than real ultimate without Blind Rage.

 

It's as simple as that.

 

DE said, it wasn't planned to put into this update. Whether I believe it or not doesn't change the fact, that they are trying to change it to a worse version if Excal is the only one getting this treatment.

 

Excal needs to be the only balanced frame in a game where every other frame is not. (some exclusives). I don't get that.

Edited September 14, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[LukeAura]

A maxed out Radial Blind build gimped all other abilities of Excal.

 

I don't see what anyone gets out of playing Excalibur solely for CC instead of other frames. (Personally I like Super Jump and I find many occassions to use it.)

 

Radial Blind was his survival Skill. Without it he is screwed, because he can't Slash Dash/Super Jump out of danger in most cases and Radial Javelin is more a style move than real ultimate without Blind Rage.

 

DE said, it wasn't planned to put into this update. Whether I believe it or not doesn't change the fact, that they are trying to change it to a worse version if Excal is the only one getting this treatment.

 

Excal needs to be the only balanced frame in a game where every other frame is not. (some exclusives). I don't get that.

Ultimately that's irrelevant sadly, it makes the decision to choose OPness harder, but the OPness is still just as damaging. Many frames are valued by their best skills, especially if that skill does too much. 

Radial Blind is actually one of the best CCs, people just don't realize it. 

And it's not going to stop being a survival skill, it just won't be a disable everything within 30-60 meters skill. It will still ideally have plenty of power.  

They will balance every frame, and they seem to be quite serious about doing so now. Oberon just had his big rework done, and now they're looking at Excalibur. 

[SIDESTRE4M]

I would rather use Loki Radial Disarm build if Cc is the premise, but that's just me.

 

Radial Blind is good. Maybe too good in its current state but I don't see the game flooded or hyped by Excalibur players. Most Excaliburs I see are either beginners or hipsters.

 

I'm not particulary against that nerf but I don't understand why Excalibur out of all frames is the first one getting a nerf without a buff of his other skills.

Maybe they'll do so, but I'll wait until then to recall my worries.

[LukeAura]

I'm not particulary against that nerf but I don't understand why Excalibur out of all frames is the first one getting a nerf without a buff of his other skills.

Maybe they'll do so, but I'll wait until then to recall my worries.

I think from the poll up on the hot topics and from some hints in the wordings of one of Rebecca's post on the matter, it's pretty safe to say his other skills are being buffed. 

I'd say more replace your worries with the worry that they're going to mess up his changes than worry about him not receiving any buffs. 

[SIDESTRE4M]

Truth to be told.

I hope they get it done right.

Why is my Volt so damn blurry and your Rhino Prima sharp as a Katana? :D

Edited September 15, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[RakzzR1]

Excalibur abilities are soo weak I worked hard on it at last it was worthless when compared to other warframes please improve its abilities and make it a worthy warframe to have

[LukeAura]

 

Truth to be told.

I hope they get it done right.

 

I'm just hoping LoS detection stops being calculated as a singular line to each target's eyes from a frame's booty. Fireblast has been hampered by that problem long enough too.
 

 

 

Why is my Volt so damn blurry and your Rhino Prima sharp as a Katana? :D

You've been hit by radial blind...? 
 

[Methanoid]

considering his ultimate was weaksauce mostly due to line of sight issues and his other 3 moves dont exactly wreck bad guys, radial blind was his singularly useful ability, kneecapping it with the same unpopular weakness as radial jav seems beyond strange.

 

its like crippling loki's invisibility to only work if the enemy have their back to you.

[SIDESTRE4M]

 

 

 

I'm just hoping LoS detection stops being calculated as a singular line to each target's eyes from a frame's booty. Fireblast has been hampered by that problem long enough too.

 

 

 

You've been hit by radial blind...? 

 

 

I'm hoping they don't do something rash. Excalibur is the patron of this game. They have to get him right.

 

considering his ultimate was weaksauce mostly due to line of sight issues and his other 3 moves dont exactly wreck bad guys, radial blind was his singularly useful ability, kneecapping it with the same unpopular weakness as radial jav seems beyond strange.

 

its like crippling loki's invisibility to only work if the enemy have their back to you.

 

With that, they gave Superjump a deeper meaning. That's genius if you think about it, because all those superjump heretics are hating this skill.^^