Jump to content

Saryn - A Hot Mess With A Simple Fix


mooser6
 Share

Recommended Posts

Saryn continues to be one of the most confusing frames to build (I say this as MR 14 who has every frame and a lot of hours logged). This thread isn't going to be another "rework" thread... there is already a really intensive one here:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/224577-saryn-anyone-remember-her-the-unnofficial-saryn-rework-thread/

 

 

This is just looking at her from a perspective of what builds make sense, and what minor tweaks could help her abilities synergize a little better. Skip down below the spoilers if you're already familiar with her abilty min/max and builds.

 

 

How Her Abilities Currently Work with Strength, Range, and Duration...

- Her first 3 abilities all benefit from +duration.

 

- Her first 3 abilities all benefit from +strength.... however Venom only marginally benefits from it because only the initial target takes the increased damage, power strength is ignored on all victims of spread spores. Venom actually benefits much more from +range instead of strength. Longer lasting spores have better chance to spread, more chances to proc, and with the range they can spread further.

 

- Molt needs both +duration and +strength to be effective (as a decoy).

 

- Contagion needs both +duration and +strength to be effective.

 

- Miasma works best with -duration, +strength, and +range

 

So what does this leave us with for logical builds? Hmm....

 

1) Venom only.

+duration, +range, -strength (unfortunately)

Venom does horrible base damage, it's savior is the ability to spread viral procs which is what this focuses on

* continuity

* constitution

* narrowminded

* overextended

* stretch

* 4 open slots

 

 

2) Molt & Contagion

+duration, +strength

The only two abilities of Saryn's that synergize from a modding standpoint and also from a gameplay standpoint.

* continuity

* constitution

* narrowminded

* blind rage

* intensify

* 3 open slots

 

3) Contagion only.

+duration, +strength

For a melee build... shame to get rid of Molt though.

* continuity

* constitution

* narrowminded

* blind rage

* intensify

* 4 open slots

 

 

4) Molt only.

+duration, +strength

Molt is a great ability... too bad it only synergizes well with contagion.

* continuity

* constitution

* narrowminded

* blind rage

* intensify

* 4 open slots

 

5) Miasma only.

-duration, +efficiency, +strength, +range

* fleeting expertise (rank 4)

* blind rage

* intensify

* stretch

* 5 open slots

 

 

So maxing any of Saryn's abilities pretty much means she'll be a one trick pony. Molt and Contagion are the only abilities of hers that work well together. edit: a min duration Molt synergizes well with Miasma for those who want to use Molt more as an offensive ability.

 

 

Simple Fixes

Without going crazy on reworking abilities, how could some simple fixes create better synergy between abilities?

 

- Change the strange mechanics of Miasma. I can't think of another ability in this game that works in a simlar way. Too many variables involved! Making it work like M.Prime is one possible way and it doesn't involve re-inventing the wheel... range is dependent on duration (think: toxic cloud spreading out over time) with a standard base damage effected by power strength. WOW! Suddenly this synergizes with ALL of her other abilities, it probably looks way cooler too! :)

 

- I could stop here and be happy... but I'll toss one more idea out...

 

- Change Venom to deal a fixed max damage which is based on power strength. Now duration effects the damage-per-tick and number of ticks. A longer duration would result in more ticks, which means less damage per tick, however more ticks also means more chance to proc viral. Shorter duration would result in fewer ticks but of higher damage per tick (and less status chance). Now there are two ways to build the ability and a means of balancing it with the above Miasma.

 

That's It!

These two simple changes would result in a very different Saryn without the need for a complete rework. I mean, if nothing else this could be a stepping stone towards a rework if she really still needs one (which maybe she still does...)

Edited by mooser6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think your suggestions are solid, but I feel her problems are much, MUCH deeper than her ult getting -duration and her spores not scaling past the first target.

 

I am also a MR 14, and was around MR 12 before the voluntary account reset, and Saryn has been my main through both of those, since she came out back in U7.

 

All of her abilities were butchered into what they are now, with the only truly viable build being a max -duration/+efficiency build, for instant damage but full duration stuns (which aren't affected by duration,) through Miasma, and the temporary decoy Molt that explodes after only a couple seconds for double damage (Molt explodes twice when expiring from time rather than damage.) 

 

Her Venom is a mere shadow of what it used to be and the only value it has is it's viral proc, which is unreliable especially considering the rise of status chance weapons and status builds being viable, especially with viral, now that the +cold/+status mods are out. Her Contagion isn't much better, either. It isn't exactly a shadow of its former self, as it has quite frankly always sucked, and the higher level you go, the worse it gets due to melee weapons falling off hard end game compared to guns.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't disagree that Saryn needs work, but rather than broad sweeping changes I'm trying to take some baby steps first - and ones that will IMO make an immediate improvement. Something that wouldn't be very difficult (feasible even!) for DE to implement, then continue to evaluate where she stands. I sorta wanted to leave that for the other thread though.

 

You noticed I didn't really touch Contagion, mainly because... yeah, it's meh.

 

As you pointed out, there are 2 builds of Molt, which is nice, but really only one way to min/max Saryn because of her wacky ability synergy. This is the bigger problem to me. With a solid foundation I can see some minor reworking of her abilities making her a much more viable frame. I'm mean, she's a boss in early and mid game... but running around spamming Miasma is pretty boring and her value to the team can stand to be improved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see no build differences with 2, 3 and 4, other than mod slot is away changing how many extra left?

The only differences are which single ability you choose to equip, or whether or not you lose an extra slot by equipping 2 abilities rather than one. The builds listed are mainly to illustrate how her abilities lack synergy for those who are less than familiar with modding her.

 

Out of those builds the only one I'd even consider running is the Molt-Only build (which can be built for + or - duration). Contagion is not really worth using, so really she only has 3 viable builds and all of those leave a lot of room for improvement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SOund good to me.

I really love playing my Saryn, but that -duration for my Miasma build really hurts Venom and Molt.

If duration actually was useful i'd love my Venom and Molt even more :)

 

Only thing i'd like to add is that they should make the Venom Spores easier to pop already :s

Unless using a shotgun i barely get any of them to pop, even when hitting them point blank in the center.

It should just use hit detection like banshee's sonar (while retaining the the spores still)

THat's actually the only thing that always has bothered me

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Venom isn't optimal with minimum duration but it can do its job with some recasting and if spores pop.  Molt arguably benefits from minimum duration as it will detonate twice when its duration expires (minimum duration also makes it cheap enough to spam.)  Contagion isn't really worth using in the first place but it is hurt the most by minimum duration and becomes pretty much unusable.  Needless to say, Miasma is king with minimum duration.  

 

Overall, minimum duration works well currently.  I would say that making Contagion worth something is a higher priority than making Miasma more intuitive.  

Edited by RealPandemonium
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Overall, minimum duration works well currently.  I would say that making Contagion worth something is a higher priority than making Miasma more intuitive.  

Agreed. I would also extend fixing to Venom by removing the on-target mechanism and possibly making it a single-handed ability. Instead of targetting an enemy, it could lay down an organic mass on an enemy or the environment, like the torid. Or it can simply explode instantly on impact.

 

Making her other abilities better would take the focus off Miasma.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed. I would also extend fixing to Venom by removing the on-target mechanism and possibly making it a single-handed ability. Instead of targetting an enemy, it could lay down an organic mass on an enemy or the environment, like the torid. Or it can simply explode instantly on impact.

 

Making her other abilities better would take the focus off Miasma.

Making it Ember Fire Ball but with spores instead of fire could work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With the minor changes I suggested, duration could be run either way with her. If that happens then players have a lot more build fleXibility. Personally I would rather have that happen now, then eval her abilities to see what still needs to be done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...