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Rage And Quick Thinking

.Talia.

By .Talia.,
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.Talia.

.Talia.

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Posted (edited)

How Quick Thinking and Rage works.

 

Let's understand how it's supposed to work, before you start exaggerated complains about having your builds ruined. 

 

Quick Thinking uses Energy as a second Health pool when you reach 2HP.

It drains your remaining Energy and converts it to Health with a 240% efficiency. It keeps you with 2 Health, and use your remaining Energy as a second Health pool to keep you alive from incoming damage. 
 

Rage converts damage on Health to Energy. 

It gets 40% of received damage to Health and recycle it to fill your Energy pool.

 

Everything is working as intended, but something was taken off from the Combo.

 

On Hotfix 14.0.8 you may have noticed that Quick Thinking was stronger than ever (Well maybe not as strong as the time when you were actually immortal) So now that they fixed it on Hotfix 14.6.0 many players are complaining about it, all over the forums.

 

 

Changes:

 

Rage Mod:

 

  • First, a quick brief in the history of changes this Mod has undergone:
  •  
  • This Mod was originally fixed to not give a player energy for damage that was never dealt to player. When we added the damage predeath state in Conclaves, etc, the original fix was unintentionally reverted.
  •  
  • The 14.6.0 fix resolves issues where Rage + Quick Thinking gave effective permanent invulnerability because energy was being added to pool that was never dealt to player. With this change in mind, the combination of Rage and Quick Thinking may seem less efficient as before due to no longer giving effective invulnerability. The scope of this change is being monitored to ensure the usefulness of these Mods as a combination.

 

What they are saying here, is that Rage was fixed to not give a player Energy for damage that was not dealt to Health. How does that works?

 

It's because when you reach 2 Health, Quick Thinking takes over, and the incoming damage will be dealt to your Energy. Rage shouldn't ever give Energy when you're at 2 Health, that is what it was fixed. Then they changed something else not related to Rage and Quick Thinking, and that fix was unintentionally reverted, and the infamous combo was stronger than intended.

 

14.6.0 fixed the invulnerability stage, that happened when you had 2 Health, 0 Energy, and would not die, because incoming damage would be converted to Energy, and Energy would be converted to Health, creating a buggy cycle that they never seem to make it work right, until now. Now you may think it's less efficient, due to that invulnerability stage being fixed.

 

This video demonstrate these changes, with each phase of the cycle being explained. Pause the video at the beginning if you want to see the mods used for this test.

 

In case embed is not showing for you -> http://youtu.be/_ygfP3OczyM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ygfP3OczyM

 

Some players claim that they nerfed the efficiency, on this topic a reply got some +1's claiming that. I tested and confirmed that's not true. As confirmed in this test, you can clearly see that my friend was dealing (On normal shots) 12 damage to Health, and 5 damage to Energy. That's 240% efficiency.

 

In case embed don't work -> http://youtu.be/Yy1JOZIyN2A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy1JOZIyN2A

 

Now on PvP, that's an entirely different scenario. The mod Rage was completely disabled on PvP. As demonstrated on this test:

 

In case embed is not showing for you -> http://youtu.be/W0aTuuW4a7E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0aTuuW4a7E

 

Was this a band-aid fix for PvP or it is a bug? I don't know. But whatever, i'm not gonna miss any Quick Thinking user on the Conclaves! Good Riddance. By the way, the bug that made Blocking gives you Energy, including blocking from Reflex Guard, was finally fixed because of that.

 

Please discuss and keep it civil.

Edited by RexSol
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.Talia.

.Talia.

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I really like this change. Face taking 20 enemies surrounding you for over a minute was broken.

 

Yeah, it was really over powered. Still saves you from attacks that would otherwise kill you though. I really like that they finally fixed it. 

About Rage not working on PvP, it might be a bug, but i love that we don't see anyone using Quick Thinking anymore. 

Edited by RexSol
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LMjai

LMjai

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I don't like dying all the time after 10 minutes on t4 survival with anything except rhino prime or trinity or valkyr. Maybe quick thinking should stagger you like before but give huge damage reduction while youre staggered. I like to play weak warframes (nekros, ember, etc.).

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.Talia.

.Talia.

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My only concern with rage is dark sector PvP and Valkyr melee viability

 

Coptering seems to be the only way now

 

 

Glad that they fixed the combo, not glad that Rage doesn't work on PvP though, hard enough to get Energy as is.

 

 

Energy Orbs are scarce on the Conclaves, but abundant on the Dark Sectors. IMO.

 

Azawarau, You can't have Warcry active all the time, but you can save it for when you need it.

 

In my opinion, over powered abilities is what makes Warframe PvP skilless. The Less Abilities, the better.

 

 

The change was necessary but the current QT mechanic kinda seem like its not 240% efficient.

 

They should change its description to make it a bit clearer exactly what it's doing.

 

It is 240% i will prove it and post here later.

Edited by RexSol
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Azawarau

Azawarau

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Posted

 

 

Energy Orbs are scarce on the Conclaves, but abundant on the Dark Sectors. IMO.

 

Azawarau, You can't have Warcry active all the time, but you can save it for when you need it.

 

In my opinion, over powered abilities is what makes Warframe PvP skilless. The Less Abilities, the better.

 

 

 

 

It is 240% i will prove it and post here later.

 

I didnt use warcry at all before

 

Didnt have a reason to

 

Ive added it now to compensate for rage being gone and am switching to coptering and rush for mobility so i cant be simply outrun and shot or heavily CCd as easily

 

Have to adjust to the changes

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.Talia.

.Talia.

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I don't like dying all the time after 10 minutes on t4 survival with anything except rhino prime or trinity or valkyr. Maybe quick thinking should stagger you like before but give huge damage reduction while youre staggered. I like to play weak warframes (nekros, ember, etc.).

 

To debunk this claim i did a 38 min T4 Survival Solo with Ash, without Quick Thinking or Rage, and without Blade Storm. And i wasn't even trying too hard i just wanted test it out and see how far i could go. As you can see in the video (Well kinda, x16 fast forward) i wasn't using Smoke Screen all the time, just against Vor and after 25 min i started to use it more often. The only reason i left with 38 min was because i ran out of Life Support, i could stay longer if i had a team. I didn't die.

 

Pause at the start to see the mods i was using, and pause at the end to see the mission stats, on 2:00 Vor shows up.

 

The old buggy and not intended Quick Thinking + Rage cycle would help? Certainly. But is it mandatory? Not really. Nonetheless it still can save your @ss, it's still worth using on squishy frames or end-game builds. You guys are overreacting.

 

(Don't watch the super fast forward if you have epilepsy.)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgRRqee3Csk

 

http://youtu.be/PgRRqee3Csk

Edited by RexSol
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Arblarg

Arblarg

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No this is totally broken because I only run QT+Rage on one frame. All my other frames that have high energy only ran on flow + QT, they're surviving for 2 seconds on energy where before I had at least 10 seconds to get out of the situation I was in. I don't care for PvP, this is entirely a PvE complaint. Its next to worthless to run QT on any of my frames now, even the high energy ones as it gives me maybe an extra second to survive, if even. Something with it is definitely broken, even in the absence of rage.

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.Talia.

.Talia.

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The change was necessary but the current QT mechanic kinda seem like its not 240% efficient.

 

 

They should change its description to make it a bit clearer exactly what it's doing.

 

 

Confirmed 240% Efficiency,Working as Intended.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy1JOZIyN2A

 

In case embed is not showing -> http://youtu.be/Yy1JOZIyN2A

Edited by RexSol
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Azawarau

Azawarau

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Yes, Armor affects Energy pool with Quick Thinking. I don't know if it's intended though, maybe it's a bug.

If its a bug then ill have to drop it from ym valkyr entirely and go back to Stamina

 

What are your thoughts on QT in PvP now that rage is gone?

 

DSPVP as well

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.Talia.

.Talia.

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If its a bug then ill have to drop it from ym valkyr entirely and go back to Stamina

 

What are your thoughts on QT in PvP now that rage is gone?

 

DSPVP as well

 

About PvP, i'm loving that people don't use QT anymore, it was overpowered and completely changed the outcome of a PvP battle (both Conclave and DS PvP). Now DE just have to balance Reflex Guard, and we will have a balance on Warframe Mods (except Abilities). 

 

But i am considering the possibility that Rage not working on PvP might a bug, because that was not stated on the Patch Notes. I always read all patch notes. Honestly i don't mind if Rage was taken out of PvP forever, like i said in my opinion, over powered abilities is what makes Warframe PvP skilless... The less abilities, the better.

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Azawarau

Azawarau

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About PvP, i'm loving that people don't use QT anymore, it was overpowered and completely changed the outcome of a PvP battle (both Conclave and DS PvP). Now DE just have to balance Reflex Guard, and we will have a balance on Warframe Mods (except Abilities). 

 

But i am considering the possibility that Rage not working on PvP might a bug, because that was not stated on the Patch Notes. I always read all patch notes. Honestly i don't mind if Rage was taken out of PvP forever, like i said in my opinion, over powered abilities is what makes Warframe PvP skilless... The less abilities, the better.

I meant specifically on using QT

 

Still cheap or fair game?

 

I woudnt waste the slots myself but i can imagine others would

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.Talia.

.Talia.

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I meant specifically on using QT

 

Still cheap or fair game?

 

I woudnt waste the slots myself but i can imagine others would

 

Personally i would say Fair Game, but some Conclavers will disagree with me... Although i wouldn't use it myself, it costs too much to equip, and the benefits are not worth anymore.

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ranks21

ranks21

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its not fixed,  energy drain is a damage type that hurts your frame and if the qt+rage combo is supposed to work as intended then the eximuses  wouldn't be a factor. so this is just useless to go for videos to show some one hit recharge to make it seem like its working. there is no counter to energy drain as of now and if it is working as intended then those of us using it wouldn't be dying from leechers as is.

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