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What Happened To Progress?


Innocent_Flower
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SoIi got super excited with 14.2 . It had loads of needed balance changes and I was thinking DE would turn around and stop overlooking things. I was wrong. They haven't. My computer failed so I haven't been active (i missed the event with the nice things and I'm pretty sure my doggy is dead) but as I look over the changes made since then... The things that have long needed fixing haven't been fixed.

 

 

So I ask... why is it that DE can hype up big, hard to correctly pull-of things like arc-wing when they can't do very simple things like re-balance weapons, re-balance mods or improve upon existing enemies? For example, if i had access to the game, I could switch slash value of the reaper prime from 42 to 62. The weapon would be all the better for it and all i'd need to do is find the number next to "slash". I wouldn't need an amount of coding experience to do that beyond that.

 

Seriously. I could go into this for hours. Nobody has looked at that 2.5% status chance mod that's inferior at max level to an unranked dual stat mod. Nobody has done the deed and made braton prime worthy of ten cells and four parts, whilst boltor prime still sits as a clearly unbalanced king. Butchers are still a joke and eximus a crueler one.

 

 

Why hasn't this stuff changed? They've been sitting there, some for far longer than I've been playing, and they haven't been fixed. They're like many poor spellings on an otherwise excellent job application; easy to fix but ultimately doing a lot of harm; and yet although DE are somewhat capable of adding more to said application they still seem to be blind to the spelling mistakes. 

 

(as a personal note outdoor survival mode is interesting; but i think the more serious gripes were with the mechanics of life support rather than the logic)

 
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Balance is a nebulous and extremely difficult to approach subject. We can't even really balance right now, because we have nothing to balance to. If I were them, I'd want to get all my planned features in before I did any major balancing.

 

Just straight up buffing or nerfing a weapon is good, but it doesn't address the major problems that lead to those weapons (or whatever else) requiring a buff or nerf. That needs to be addressed first.

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+1

 

I usually hate these 'stop content and fix things' posts on other game boards, but every dev on every livestream is telling us that things are being pushed back for content updates and it's getting out of hand. There's no excuse for letting alpha level group mechanics and broken gun balance slip for all this time to put in new content that will inevitably also need balance passes.

 

It's not different people anymore.

 

It's not "at the same time" anymore.

 

One is getting in the way of the other when it shouldn't.

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Why would changing the damage of a braton or boltor, or improving an enemy (amongst dozens), change the fundamental mechanics of a game? 

It wouldn't. But then, would that be tackling the issue of balance holistically either?

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't, but taking a narrow view (and I'm not saying you are) that numbers are all that need to be changed might not be the best approach. While it's a fine line to walk and you haven't crossed it yet, I think we need to keep in mind that changing numbers across the board is just that - it's not necessarily a holistic way to start (continue?) the process of rebalancing older content to keep it relevant for all players.

 

I'm not against this at all, I echo the previous sentiments that new content has overshadowed old issues for too long, and I feel that a few tweaks here and there wouldn't be remiss - indeed, overdue. I'm just warning potential proponents of this to be wary of treating the 'rebalancing' process as something that is necessarily easier and quicker than pushing out new content to an audience hyped for content rather than fixes. It's much easier to write a story than it is to edit it, and while this may be speculation, I feel this is one of the major things holding DE back.

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It wouldn't. But then, would that be tackling the issue of balance holistically either?

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't, but taking a narrow view (and I'm not saying you are) that numbers are all that need to be changed might not be the best approach. While it's a fine line to walk and you haven't crossed it yet, I think we need to keep in mind that changing numbers across the board is just that - it's not necessarily a holistic way to start (continue?) the process of rebalancing older content to keep it relevant for all players.

 

I'm not against this at all, I echo the previous sentiments that new content has overshadowed old issues for too long, and I feel that a few tweaks here and there wouldn't be remiss - indeed, overdue. I'm just warning potential proponents of this to be wary of treating the 'rebalancing' process as something that is necessarily easier and quicker than pushing out new content to an audience hyped for content rather than fixes. It's much easier to write a story than it is to edit it, and while this may be speculation, I feel this is one of the major things holding DE back.

Anyways how hard weapon to obtain, build materials, ammo, accuracy fire rate. They all are just random. Fast hitting light weapon hits harder than heavy weapon. It sounds bad but maybe there is 2.5 melee complete over haul coming or some other reason all weapons are not balanced to this patch.

Mods, there are so many jokes not making sense. Not fixed because DE most likely does not seem them needed even after fixes and does not want them removed because people would rage?

 

But fixing something is not same as editing story. This game has no story. This game is basically killing simulator without other tools than to kill.

Edited by Agullimux
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But fixing something is not same as editing story. This game has no story. This game is basically killing simulator without other tools than to kill.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't pursue obvious fixes. But I'm warning that to treat a set of these as an end goal to balance is a pitfall we'll want to avoid. They're obvious ways to work towards rebalancing, but if they are implemented, and proponents of the OP are satisfied, then we'll have missed the mark.

 

I also think my story analogy might have been missed. Warframe is a metaphorical story, I'm not pointing out the sparseness of its lore. To introduce new stories in a series is often easier than changing what's already been written and published, and I think the Warframe equivalent - introducing new weapons, warframes and content - is much less of a hassle than changing what's already ingame, and having to deal with community feedback and fallout.

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SoIi got super excited with 14.2 . It had loads of needed balance changes and I was thinking DE would turn around and stop overlooking things. I was wrong. They haven't. My computer failed so I haven't been active (i missed the event with the nice things and I'm pretty sure my doggy is dead) but as I look over the changes made since then... The things that have long needed fixing haven't been fixed.

 

 

So I ask... why is it that DE can hype up big, hard to correctly pull-of things like arc-wing when they can't do very simple things like re-balance weapons, re-balance mods or improve upon existing enemies? For example, if i had access to the game, I could switch slash value of the reaper prime from 42 to 62. The weapon would be all the better for it and all i'd need to do is find the number next to "slash". I wouldn't need an amount of coding experience to do that beyond that.

 

Seriously. I could go into this for hours. Nobody has looked at that 2.5% status chance mod that's inferior at max level to an unranked dual stat mod. Nobody has done the deed and made braton prime worthy of ten cells and four parts, whilst boltor prime still sits as a clearly unbalanced king. Butchers are still a joke and eximus a crueler one.

 

 

Why hasn't this stuff changed? They've been sitting there, some for far longer than I've been playing, and they haven't been fixed. They're like many poor spellings on an otherwise excellent job application; easy to fix but ultimately doing a lot of harm; and yet although DE are somewhat capable of adding more to said application they still seem to be blind to the spelling mistakes. 

 

(as a personal note outdoor survival mode is interesting; but i think the more serious gripes were with the mechanics of life support rather than the logic)

 

The fact you keep non stop stating "the game is broken" does not make it so.

 

I can cherry pick things in ANY game that need drastic "fixing" because it does not fit my definition of working. I will keep saying the following line and you will keep on ignoring it:

 

No one in WF is using "unbalanced" things AGAINST YOU and making you have a bad day. No one if forcing you to equip anything, forcing you to play a particular mechanic, or locking you out of one thing because you do not have another thing.

 

You can get four mates and play anyway you want. You can play Solo and play anyway you want.

 

This game is not filled wall to wall with Rhino Primes with Boltor Primes, or Vaubans with Pentas - although the Vauban argument might prove invalid after everyone actually got one - the point being that if you have an ounce of brains, you will find your own fun in this game, but if all you can do is crunch numbers all day, then what the hell are you even doing here? Go play EvE Online, or WoW, where spreadsheets are basically a must before you even step outside a map or station.

 

You ALWAYS harp on about Boltor Primes, when we all know 25K DPS is pointless in missions, and people only use them on wave 100 endless. A normal Latron with Forma can put out between 8-9K DPS in the right hands, please explain to me what you are unable to kill in normal missions with that.

 

I have taken a normal, non Forma'd Glaive against level 30 Heavy Gunners and killed them by shooting through head, and returning it back the same way, doing exactly what this guy stated

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/215981-some-testing-on-the-glaive-prime-explosion/?p=2511919

 

You don't need "numbers" to play this game, you need to simply learn to use what you have.

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No one in WF is using "unbalanced" things AGAINST YOU and making you have a bad day. No one if forcing you to equip anything, forcing you to play a particular mechanic, or locking you out of one thing because you do not have another thing.

 

Game balance doesn't just go home because a game is PvE. It's still important. 

 

That said, balance may well be an impossible task right now considering that it doesn't seem like we know what we're balancing to.

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