Nekros Rework - With A Neat Little Synergy I Thought Of Too!

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I'm honestly not sure what amount of willful ignorance is required to still be arguing about this, using only limited or explicit definitions, in spite of all presented evidence to the contrary and additional opinions chiming in.

I don't know how either, but somehow, you keep doing it.

[Elydir]

I don't know how either, but somehow, you keep doing it.

 

You say that, but you didnt really disprove anything Arch said and a bunch of people did stop you to agree with him, myself included.

 

At this point I think your just trying to be witty to make up for a point you cant really back up without going to one definition of a lich, even though the devs never said he was one. The design is much more grim reaper-y, espeically with that hood. He's supposed to be a necromancer before he could be a lich and he cant even do that right.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Nekros is a lich in looks only. He's nominally a necromancer, but the act of raising the dead only enters gameplay in one skill, which doesn't nearly live up to its full potential - which this thread is requesting a buff for, as with several others. He also has very little interaction with his minions once they're up, which is half the point of necromancer gameplay: buffing or healing your zombie hordes while they whittle down your foes for you. 

 

Otherwise he's just a poorly-designed 3-spamming farmer with soul gimmicks, and we need to stop humoring Scott about his present state.

He is a lich, all of his skills fit that, and play that way..

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

You say that, but you didnt really disprove anything Arch said and a bunch of people did stop you to agree with him, myself included.

 

At this point I think your just trying to be witty to make up for a point you cant really back up without going to one definition of a lich, even though the devs never said he was one. The design is much more grim reaper-y, espeically with that hood. He's supposed to be a necromancer before he could be a lich and he cant even do that right.

People said he didn't play like a Necromancer/Lich.  I proved he did.  It doesn't matter if it is only one definition or not because he only has to play like one (number) to play one (necro/lich).  It's just icing on the cake that I used one of the most popular definitions around.

 

He looks like a Lich.  A Lich is a powerful, undead Necromancer.  Is anyone disputing that he is a necromancer?  No. The boney and emaciated body, ceremonial syandana, and skill set just lend more evidence to the conclusion he is a Lich.

 

It doesn't matter how many people agree with who.  That doesn't change anything.

[Archwizard]

He is a lich, all of his skills fit that, and play that way..

 

 

From the devs' own mouths, he is supposed to be a necromancer. His design is inspired by the Grim Reaper - not a mere lich - which implies just a bit more killing capacity than his Supportive role would let you believe.

 

Not all necromancers are liches, but all liches are necromancers. The gameplay of a lich depends on the game or story in question; Sauron and Voldemort could be liches in the loosest sense, while World of Warcraft or DoTA would more specifically say it plays like a skeletal ice mage with some vampiric powers. The definition is very situational, and vague; if you apply your specific definition, I could just as easily find several that are equally valid and disagree.

 

Necromancers are a well-known class in RPGs, which gives them their own archetype. As such, and in total spite of the real world "communes with the dead, that's it" definition, they have certain pillars that the majority of RPGs will agree on. While Nekros covers 2 of these pillars (Fear and the Undead), he does not do them well (primarily due to poor AI, and because of excessive limitations on his CC) and his skillset has little focus on them. He also ignores several other pillars like vampirism or curses/diseases, so that he can have an annoying-to-cast ragdoll that the devs have all but said only exists because of its stupid name, and a looting skill that nobody will let go of that would be stamped out within weeks from cries of "imbalanced" in literally any other game.

 

Warframe isn't a tabletop game where you can fantasize about being an elf prince or dashing rogue, running political schemes and diplomatic missions and back-alley deals to overtake the kingdom (or in this case, setting up a phylactery so you can rule the galaxy forever), using reagents on every spell, renting horses and needing certain skills just to lay excrement comfortably. What portion we directly interact with is very much centered on combat-based gameplay - and Nekros' "main skill" ignores that.

This isn't merely a case of Trinity not having offensive powers; hers are direct reactions to combat scenarios damaging to herself or allies to extend the immediate battle and push forward into the next. Desecrate duty asks that you at least partially ignore the combat around you so that you can play the slot machine, and actively takes away from your ability to do battle while on a Nekros, to benefit you when you are outside of a mission entirely. It's an anti-combat ability, and by definition does not belong in a combat game.

 

We want him to wage wars as would a necromancer, because he presently doesn't have any fight at all.

 

Is anyone disputing that he is a necromancer?  No. 

 

YES. WE ABSOLUTELY ARE DISPUTING THIS. Every single voice in here that wants him buffed disputes this. That is the whole point of this entire argument we have been waging for a day, and every voice that has popped in with their 2-cents.

For the umpteenth time: He isn't a necromancer. He is a farmer.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Archwizard

[Elydir]

People said he didn't play like a Necromancer/Lich.  I proved he did.  

 

You don't prove things just by saying "yes he is" over and over, like youve been doing.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

-snip-

Is it too difficult for you to get your head around concept of Lich = powerful necromancer? So if Nekros is a necromancer he ca easily be a Lich.  Mekros's skill completely line up with Liches. DnD isn't vague or unknown.  If Nekros lines up with even one definition of a lich then you can't say he doesn't play like one.

[Burnthesteak87]

Dudes, enough on spamming on Azamagon's topic.
How many years are you?
Go to solve your problem with private messages.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Burnthesteak87

[Archon_Moros]

Keep the mod drop chance.

ESPECIALLY keep the oxygen drop chance.

Desecrate is fine.

Soul punch needs a complete remake. I don't even care if it is a totally new skill. It should be something necromantic; right now it feels like something may would have.

Terrify needs to be buffed. A lot. Make it proc viral, that seems like a great idea. Make it reusable, or toggled, or something other than the chaos model it is now, because chaos detains new enemies that enter the area (through combat with others), terrify, while potentially amazing, is functionally lacking

:(

Also, shadows AI could be improved. It would also be awesome if his one could spawn a single one as well, somehow. I want to play a necromancers frame. Right now, he feels closer to D3's witchdoctor.

[gir240]

shadow of the dead should pull more aggro and synergies with other skills.

 

soul punch should not lock you in place when cast and when used on your shadows it insta kills it then it gives nekros a buff (speed and armor) so you could play nekros assorted ways.

 

terrify should affect your dead by giving them more time(once) and armor.

 

desecrate should stay as it is and also give attack buff to living Undead  based on how much enemy's you desecrate.

 

so you make him a proper pet class that makes his sucky ulti to something that is new and interesting mechanics

[Rhekinos]

Your suggestions for Soul Punch is too OP. How about letting kills by soul punch go into a 'reserved pool' in the Shadows for SotD and these Shadows get summoned first? Maybe let Soul Punch insta-kill low health mobs as well to hasten the 'Soul-reaping'.

 

Terrify is fine but I would be much happier if the effects were more obvious. I hardly notice any difference between a terrified and normal unit. Maybe make an effect similar to Chaos where a creepy Nekros shadow hovers over the units affected? It'll be so much cooler :] And maybe when you stack terrify with chaos the two shadows (nyx and nekros) would hold their hands in a circle above the target? XD I can dream can't I?!

 

Desecrate would be much better if it was duration-based like how someone suggested that it spawns Phantoms/Wraiths that hunt down corpses and desecrates them for you. It'll synergize better with SotD so that you don't have to pick one over the other because of Fleeting expertise.

 

SotD really really needs a UI that shows you your next rotation of shadows to summon. Then you get to use it more effectively and know whether or not you've actually killed that Toxic Ancient instead of being ks-ed without you knowing.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Rhekinos