What If Skill Trees Made A Comeback? A Warframe Skills V3 Thread.

[Blatantfool]

This is an idea I've been stuck on for a while. Many other people have probably had this very same idea, it definitely isn't the brain child of my own creativity. But I think it's a worthwhile discussion.

 

 I've spent an amount of time equal to none worrying about the exact numbers and potential balance issues here. I'm more interested right now in the general function of this whole thing. Because some of what I'm going to type is talking of pretty sweeping changes, I recognize a lot of this isn't far removed from fanfiction. Nonetheless - buckle your pants and keep an open mind.

 

 On to the point:

 

 I think Ability mods are, in general, one of the reasons skills find it so easy to really suck. Finding, fusing and slotting skillcards doesn't really do much for anybody. It'll never rank up enough or involve enough to keep the skill useful for the infinitely scaling armies of the enemy factions. With no word on the horizon of DE being interested in setting any specific cielings on where the stats of our enemies go that leaves just about any balance talk about skills in a weird place where no suggestion actually fixes anything.

 

 What should be done? Well. I'm gonna suggest the truly radical route. I think Skill Cards ought to be removed and for DE to bring back the idea of have a small skill tree for each Frame. I think that each frame should earn access to their 4 skills within the first 4 Mastery levels. No middlemen.

 

 Imagine now having a cute little menu that you get to the same way you do your Mod build. This one features each of your four skill symbols and their skill names + each skills current base stats and function aligned with the stats and function of the skill taking your current mods into consideration.

 

 When you give the symbols a click the menu changes to reveal that specific skill's tree of upgrades. As you rank up your Warframe to R30 you will earn spendable points for each skill. What do they do? They completely replace and expand upon the idea of upgrading skills the way fusing skillcards cannot. The menu will feature a large variety of little changes to the skill that are additive to the skills base stats and effects. There are no percentages here. That is for mods. You may also find passive effects, like enhancements to the severity of a proc the skill may cause or the addition of a proc it normally doesn't cause. Increases to base damage, range or duration may also exist, these would be little changes that you can turn into a big difference with the help of mods.

 

 You do have a limited amount of points that each skill can build up and you wont be able to increase that number by supercharging. You can spend credits to reset and respend as you please, the cost of the resent dependant on which skill. (A 1 skill would be cheap, for instance.)

 

 Would you choose to take a skill like Miasma and introduce a variety of additonal Procs to it's effects or would you go for as much base damage as possible? Or maybe you try to push it's base range and duration as high as possible to further increase the possibilities with modding? The trees would always offer plenty more than you'll have points to spend. That's the idea, after all. What you want from the skill wont always be what someone else wants.

 

 Thoughts? Additions? Questions?

 

 Do you desire a world free of skillcards, Tenno? 

 

 

 

 Edit: Since it's apparent a few people are reading this and misunderstanding my point, allow me to clarify. This is suggesting the removal of ONLY Warframe skill cards. Just the skills. Not the whole Mod system. Mods would and should still be the main method of drastically changing your Warframe's build. This idea is about giving the ability to fine tune and increase the effectiveness of the skills base stats/effects directly to the player.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Blatantfool

[JefPlays]

Dunno about throwing out the mod system altogether (again). It was one thing back in closed beta, but it would be far too disruptive now, what with millions of Tenno out there.

 

Though, I do hope the Focus system takes the form of some kind of skill tree...

[Jahadaya]

I remember a thread like this...

 

I don't really desire a world free of Mod Cards. I like them, and I can imagine just how much can be done with them in the future. And when Focus comes along, it will be like 2 different types of character modding systems that work well together and make for the ultimate experience.

 

All DE needs to do is (drastically) change enemy scaling, and re balance Mods. 

 

This idea in my opinion, is an awesome way they could do that: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/261637-we-need-a-buff-to-make-those-pointless-mods-to-have-some-purpose-until-the-mod-system-is-improved/

Edited September 13, 2014 by Jahadaya

[Damuranashi]

Well, this is going to be controversial...

[KaptainK3nny]

It Died...

[yles9056]

(Still reading)

If the skill tree looks like the one from Path of Exile

I'll seriously consider it.

 

(Finished reading)

So you are suggesting skill tree for each skill?

I've read some ideas like this one before.

I like customization that supports different play style.

But if DE really wants to achieve something like this, it would definitely take a lot of time.

Edited September 13, 2014 by yles9056

[VKhaun]

For Warframe, I think we need both TBH. 

 

Trees:

Balancing every skill in the game around the same mod cards is eventually going to hold us back, if it's not already, and I don't think that can be argued. We need a real, long-term solution to that and I think skill trees for abilities is the way to go. That lets you balance and rework them individually. Just make frames into 8 slots + Aura like everything else, and give mods have their own slots or their own interface. Zero points in the tree = not available (as if unequipped) in-game.

 

Mods:

The difference between taking a point out of a defense tree and putting a point into the offense tree, and removing a defense mod to put in an offense mod, is that the skill tree gives more ability to fine tune things vs eight big fat slots for big bonuses and the mod system gives more customization over direction because there are no prerequisites. In the end, I just prefer the mod system because I'm more about the action. I -LIKE- swapping one card and seeing a big change, I -LIKE- not having to worry about all the paperwork of what the prerequisites are or do and I don't value the fine tuning as much as someone with their spreadsheets and calculator out. This is certainly bias and opinion, but that's where I want WF to go so that's my 2¢.

Edited September 13, 2014 by VKhaun

[noveltyhero]

So long as the rest of modding is not affected some skilltree could work for abilities only. Where the tree offers some more unique capabilities not achievable with mods :/

[Jahadaya]

For Warframe, I think we need both TBH. 

 

Trees:

Balancing every skill in the game around the same mod cards is eventually going to hold us back, if it's not already, and I don't think that can be argued. We need a real, long-term solution to that and I think skill trees for abilities is the way to go. That lets you balance and rework them individually. Just make frames into 8 slots + Aura like everything else, and give mods have their own slots or their own interface. Zero points in the tree = not available (as if unequipped) in-game.

 

Mods:

The difference between taking a point out of a defense tree and putting a point into the offense tree, and removing a defense mod to put in an offense mod, is that the skill tree gives more ability to fine tune things vs eight big fat slots for big bonuses and the mod system gives more customization over direction because there are no prerequisites. In the end, I just prefer the mod system because I'm more about the action. I -LIKE- swapping one card and seeing a big change, I -LIKE- not having to worry about all the paperwork of what the prerequisites are or do and I don't value the fine tuning as much as someone with their spreadsheets and calculator out. This is certainly bias and opinion, but that's where I want WF to go so that's my 2¢.

This is geenus. +1. 

[Blatantfool]

Dunno about throwing out the mod system altogether (again). It was one thing back in closed beta, but it would be far too disruptive now, what with millions of Tenno out there.

 

Though, I do hope the Focus system takes the form of some kind of skill tree...

 

 Nowhere do I imply it's a good idea to throw out the mod system.

 

 I'm talking about turning each skill and it's base stats/effects into small skill trees with a variety of options to allow you to set up your skills your way instead of relying on fusing a few skillcards for some static bonuses.

 

 

I remember a thread like this...

 

I don't really desire a world free of Mod Cards. I like them, and I can imagine just how much can be done with them in the future. And when Focus comes along, it will be like 2 different types of character modding systems that work well together and make for the ultimate experience.

 

All DE needs to do is (drastically) change enemy scaling, and re balance Mods. 

 

This idea in my opinion, is an awesome way they could do that: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/261637-we-need-a-buff-to-make-those-pointless-mods-to-have-some-purpose-until-the-mod-system-is-improved/

 

 

 Again, nowhere do I imply getting rid of the modding system is what I want. This is purely about skillcards. Just Warframe skills. Only THOSE mods would be gone. Because skills would increase in power through trees, not through fusing cards.

 

 Mods could and should still be the primary focus of strengthening the Warframe. My idea was more about allowing the player direct and more interested control over how the base stats/effects of the skills the Warframe possesses increase as you level a frame to maximum.

 

 

Well, this is going to be controversial...

 

 Controversial can be good. I'm perfectly aware of how radical the suggestion is. 

[Archistopheles]

(Still reading)

If the skill tree looks like the one from Path of Exile

I'll seriously consider it.

Didn't PoE just rip that idea from Final Fantasy 10?

[VKhaun]

Didn't PoE just rip that idea from Final Fantasy 10?

 

MIND BLOWN

[Jahadaya]

 Again, nowhere do I imply getting rid of the modding system is what I want. This is purely about skillcards. Just Warframe skills. Only THOSE mods would be gone. Because skills would increase in power through trees, not through fusing cards.

 

 Mods could and should still be the primary focus of strengthening the Warframe. My idea was more about allowing the player direct and more interested control over how the base stats/effects of the skills the Warframe possesses increase as you level a frame to maximum.

Ohh Okay. Skillcards. I get it now. Like Warframe abilites. That's confusing, because you don't really explicitly specify that you're talking about only Warframe abilities. And ability cards is the more common name for them, so I just assumed you were using a weird name for ALL mod cards. Well, if this is the case, then I +1 your idea. 

Edited September 13, 2014 by Jahadaya

[yles9056]

Didn't PoE just rip that idea from Final Fantasy 10?

 

I didn't play Final Fantasy 10 before, but yeah, they look a lot like each other.

[Blatantfool]

Ohh Okay. Skillcards. I get it now. Like Warframe abilites. That's confusing, because you don't really explicitly specify that you're talking about only Warframe abilities. And ability cards is the more common name for them, so I just assumed you were using a weird name for ALL mod cards. I mean, if that's the case, then I +1 your idea. 

 

 I wasn't aware there were many people who didn't call Warframe skill mods Skillcards. I'm just that used to the term now. My apologies. It's a small detail that's easy for me to forget about.

[VKhaun]

 I wasn't aware there were many people who didn't call Warframe skill mods Skillcards. I'm just that used to the term now. My apologies. It's a small detail that's easy for me to forget about.

 

 Nowhere do I imply it's a good idea to throw out the mod system.

 

I had the same misunderstanding, but I see what you mean.

 

I guess I just agree with you then?

 

That's right. VKhaun up in your thread agreeing with you.

Now what are you going to tell vg?

ARE YOU READY TO RENOUNCE THE GRIND?

[Blatantfool]

I had the same misunderstanding, but I see what you mean.

 

I guess I just agree with you then?

 

That's right. VKhaun up in your thread agreeing with you.

Now what are you going to tell vg?

ARE YOU READY TO RENOUNCE THE GRIND?

 

  The grind is never over.

[VKhaun]

  The grind is never over.

{Ron Perlman}

Grind. Grind never changes.

{/Ron Perlman}

Edited September 13, 2014 by VKhaun

[Cleesus]

I always thought the warframe skill mods should go also so I'm all for the idea.

[Blatantfool]

So long as the rest of modding is not affected some skilltree could work for abilities only. Where the tree offers some more unique capabilities not achievable with mods :/

 

 That's pretty much what I'm thinking.

 

 Put the power to control how our skills base stats/effects shape up in our own hands, separate of Mods. This way we have the power to set up our skills to be even better with the mods we choose to use.

[Hueminator]

Skill tree ties with MR? I think that is a better "focus"

[Blatantfool]

Skill tree ties with MR? I think that is a better "focus"

 

 Considering nobody has a clue what Focus is supposed to be yet I didn't really sweat it while typing this out. 

[Teardanos]

If the skill tree looks like the one from Path of Exile

I'll seriously consider it.

 

Path of Exile is unique ARPG with really large window open for customization. Seeing something like that in Warframe? Im not expecting such dramatic changes. But would be amazed to see that.

[Lukap99]

I seriously like this idea. I'm all for the removal of skillcards (I call them ability cards, though).

 

 

OFF TOPIC:
I've noticed that recently you mods have been posting topics in the feedback forum. Is this some sort of agreement among the mods?

I never thought I'd see a community where the mods are so involved :D

[Scherhardt]

I've always dreamed warframe to get those trees back ever since it was removed in U7.

 

I was kind of hoping for a unified mod system by which I mean DMG mods, Elemental Mods and such will be one and can be used with anything including warframe skills. Each warframe skill can have atleast 2-3 slots for us to customize, guns/melees having the usual 8 and frame slots at 4.

 

Have so many thoughts, it's so hard to type in as I lack the words to describe it.