What If Skill Trees Made A Comeback? A Warframe Skills V3 Thread.

[SgtFlex]

Seriously, I hope this becomes a hot topic and gets a lot of attention. I know a similiar thing has been pointed out in an older devstream from the beginning Q&A, and they thought about it, but we never heard about it again.

 

The only problem I see is how to compensate WF skills no longer being mods. Will those polarities get removed? What happened to where you slot the cards on your Warframe (Since people sometimes use those for regular mods instead of the actual abilities as well)? How about the mod energy that's usually used for placing all your skillcardsonto your Warframe?

 

All aside, if all these are thought about, I would really like to see something in-game like this, and it would add some great variety from people using the same frame, because they might have them built differently in skills.

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

All hail theGreatZamboni 2.0!

Edit: We'll miss you when you get banned!

Edited September 16, 2014 by Tehnoobshow

[Azawarau]

Interesting

 

But to balance out damage and utility

 

Damage would simply fall second place for near every build...

 

Unless it were ridiculous

[SgtFlex]

Interesting

 

But to balance out damage and utility

 

Damage would simply fall second place for near every build...

 

Unless it were ridiculous

That said, I really hope they consider damage scaling for abilities in the future. Damage builds just aren't viable for end-game at all really, I don't think (but I wouldn't know either) ember would survive far into high levels considering most, if not all, her abilities don't really have CC elements to them, and are all damage.

 

So yeah, perhaps they should do something about damage abilties in the future so Utility isn't picked everytime (not that Utility isn't a bad thing, but there's just no reason to go damage for high level).

[Mokkania]

Interesting

 

But to balance out damage and utility

 

Damage would simply fall second place for near every build...

 

Unless it were ridiculous

Same concern, I guess, have a hard time picturing balance for now, it'd need a lot of thinking maybe.

 

 

Nearly getting a headach thinking about it, I think it might bring out similar situation where such and such skills and even among the 4 of a frame, a skill would get favored and get a meta so that most would favor 1 or more skill-build associated depending of the basic skill characteristics.

And at the same time, in term of possiblities it's could still be better ? but complicated.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Mokkania

[VKhaun]

That said, I really hope they consider damage scaling for abilities in the future. Damage builds just aren't viable for end-game at all really, I don't think (but I wouldn't know either) ember would survive far into high levels considering most, if not all, her abilities don't really have CC elements to them, and are all damage.

 

So yeah, perhaps they should do something about damage abilties in the future so Utility isn't picked everytime (not that Utility isn't a bad thing, but there's just no reason to go damage for high level).

 

The message has been extremely consistent from DE_Scott since forever. Damage early, leading into utility later. Admittedly, Ember is a bit of a step away but really the game needs one or two exceptions. I think Volt is also supposed to be "an alternative to gunplay" but has just been quietly underpowered for a long time. In general though, damage scaling is pretty much right where it needs to be.

[Azawarau]

The message has been extremely consistent from DE_Scott since forever. Damage early, leading into utility later. Admittedly, Ember is a bit of a step away but really the game needs one or two exceptions. I think Volt is also supposed to be "an alternative to gunplay" but has just been quietly underpowered for a long time. In general though, damage scaling is pretty much right where it needs to be.

Volt is amazing

 

1 Is stun you can throw out even while reloading

 

2 Speed boost = super evasion

 

3 Speed not working? Take a position and hold the fort

 

4 In trouble? Take a group out or stun enemies on a huge radius

 

All is good in volts house

[SgtFlex]

The message has been extremely consistent from DE_Scott since forever. Damage early, leading into utility later. Admittedly, Ember is a bit of a step away but really the game needs one or two exceptions. I think Volt is also supposed to be "an alternative to gunplay" but has just been quietly underpowered for a long time. In general though, damage scaling is pretty much right where it needs to be.

I do think that something should be done about damage abilities, regardless of what's been said before. I've seen so many unused powers simply because they don't scale well at all. I think we should be able to still use them effectively later on before having to dump them for end-game builds. I cannot think of all the abilities that are like this, but I've got a ton in my head.

 

Ice Wave, Tesla, Ring of Fire, Mostly All of Ember's Powers, Electric Shock (CC element is decent, but damage isn't really), Overload, Slash Dash, Radial Javelin.

 

Looking at abilities like Ash's Shuriken, I recall them doing quite a bit of damage, and their Slash proc does pretty well at high levels. I just hate the thought of constant numbers, rather than percentages, which Slash uses, as well as Energy Vampire (but the damage Energy Vampire (6.25% of enemy health) deals is not noticeable unless you use Trinity's Nuke tactic)

 

 

All that being said, I certainly don't think Damage builds at high levels should be able to one shot enemies or anything, but they should be able to deal a fair amount of damage like they do at low levels, that strength being improved with mods, but making you able to cast them less because of energy efficiency

Edited September 13, 2014 by SgtFlex

[RahuHordika]

I always felt like we could use a system similar to Mass Effect 3 to be honest, for the powers that it. Some basic leveling for the stats until we get to a point where it splits into one of two choices as we advance further into the tree.

[Blatantfool]

Seriously, I hope this becomes a hot topic and gets a lot of attention. I know a similiar thing has been pointed out in an older devstream from the beginning Q&A, and they thought about it, but we never heard about it again.

 

The only problem I see is how to compensate WF skills no longer being mods. Will those polarities get removed? What happened to where you slot the cards on your Warframe (Since people sometimes use those for regular mods instead of the actual abilities as well)? How about the mod energy that's usually used for placing all your skillcardsonto your Warframe?

 

All aside, if all these are thought about, I would really like to see something in-game like this, and it would add some great variety from people using the same frame, because they might have them built differently in skills.

 

 The easiest options would be to either change the use of the polarity to something different OR simply phase the polarity out in it's entirety. If I were calling the shots I'd chop two Mod slots off the current maximum on each Warframe and make the remaining two blank slots for other mods to snugly fit into.

 

All hail theGreatZamboni 2.0!

 

 Zamboni was right.

 

 

Interesting

 

But to balance out damage and utility

 

Damage would simply fall second place for near every build...

 

Unless it were ridiculous

 

 That's not all that hard to do with some time and experimenting. DE patches the game often enough that it'd be something they could easily tweak into working order over time.

 

 The idea is that you'd be able to take a skill on your Frame of choice and change it for YOUR needs. It wouldn't have just one possible set up. There would be a small handful of ways to tweak and tune it. Perhaps you want to alter Slash Dash proc Puncture or Bleed? Maybe you want Nyx's Mind Control to add bonus damage to your thrall's attacks? Maybe you decide 'screw it' and stack every damage boosting perk available into Shock, ignoring adding more utility in favor of giving it much greater usefulness going into higher levels then it'd currently be lethal in now.

 

 What really important is that control over how our skills grow and expand over many levels would be in our control - ready to be fine tuned to personalize our Warframes even further to our liking during gameplay while not completely obliterating the value and point of having mods like Continuity.

 

 The option to give a Frame with little utility some of the options it's lacking is just one advantage to this kind of system in my opinion.

[Azawarau]

 That's not all that hard to do with some time and experimenting. DE patches the game often enough that it'd be something they could easily tweak into working order over time.

 

 The idea is that you'd be able to take a skill on your Frame of choice and change it for YOUR needs. It wouldn't have just one possible set up. There would be a small handful of ways to tweak and tune it. Perhaps you want to alter Slash Dash proc Puncture or Bleed? Maybe you want Nyx's Mind Control to add bonus damage to your thrall's attacks? Maybe you decide 'screw it' and stack every damage boosting perk available into Shock, ignoring adding more utility in favor of giving it much greater usefulness going into higher levels then it'd currently be lethal in now.

 

 What really important is that control over how our skills grow and expand over many levels would be in our control - ready to be fine tuned to personalize our Warframes even further to our liking during gameplay while not completely obliterating the value and point of having mods like Continuity.

 

 The option to give a Frame with little utility some of the options it's lacking is just one advantage to this kind of system in my opinion.

Considering the way utility scales compared to damage id say its hard to believe

 

Damage would have to be really high

 

Like Shock killing lvl 30+ grineer effectively high

[Monolake]

Please some one give good reasoning why would you want a rigid skill tree instead of a flexible change-any-time mod system we have now.

[Malikon]

Please some one give good reasoning why would you want a rigid skill tree instead of a flexible change-any-time mod system we have now.

Because you didnt read for comprehension.

 

On this subject, I rather like the OP's idea.  I could give my poor Ember a longer stagger and bigger radius on her fireball and add a knockback to Fireblast. 

 

Maybe OP could clarify, but what I'm seeing is that he/she is suggesting that we have something similar to the following:

 

At Rank 30 we have 30 "skill points" to distribute to increase base values of (or add attributes to) the abilities and with Ember as my example.

 

Skill trees for Ember's abilities

 

Fireball:

Damage: 0/5

Explosion Radius: 5/5

Stagger: 3/5

Ignite Chance: 5/5

 

Accelerant:

Radius:  0/0

Stun Duration: 5/5

Debuff Duration: 2/5

Debuff Modifier (Damage): 5/5

 

Fireblast:

Damage: 0/0

Knockback: 5/5

Radius: 0/0

Ignite Chance: 0/0

 

World on Fire:

Run Speed Increase: 0/0

Fire Plume Radius: 0/0

Fire Plume Frequency: 0/0

Ignite Chance: 0/0

 

Spent my 30 points on the following:

- Increasing the ignite chance, stagger and explosion radius of my Fireball

- Adding a knockback to my Fireblast

- Increasing Stun Duration, duration and damage modifier of being coated by accelerant for the Accelerant ability.

 

After this customization is complete, the end results would be altered by the warframe mods equipped.  Is this correct, OP?

 

Edit:  clarity

Edited September 16, 2014 by Malikon

[fatpig84]

We don't need that huge really.

The one from BL2 could work well.

[Navhkrin]

I would like to see skill trees allowing us to build Warframes in multiple roles. Empowering a skill in a way we want instead of just chancing the damage it deals

[Blatantfool]

Considering the way utility scales compared to damage id say its hard to believe

Damage would have to be really high

Like Shock killing lvl 30+ grineer effectively high

The damage boosts in the tree would only have to boost the damage high enough that with the help of mods the skill can preform better than currently.

This is something that I believe would need to be worked on while it is in practice.

I would like to see skill trees allowing us to build Warframes in multiple roles. Empowering a skill in a way we want instead of just chancing the damage it deals

Then we think very much alike.

[VKhaun]

Volt is amazing

 

1 Is stun you can throw out even while reloading

 

2 Speed boost = super evasion

 

3 Speed not working? Take a position and hold the fort

 

4 In trouble? Take a group out or stun enemies on a huge radius

 

All is good in volts house

 

Volt is in a very good place. I did not say he wasn't. I haven't played him in a while but he's one of my all-time favorites and the prime that I want most of all.

 

He is NOT however a potent alternative to gun play at the end of the game. If DE_Scott is going to tell us utility->damage is the plan then it's essentially false advertising to sell a frame that says it's a potent alternative to gunplay.

 

It may be true at low levels, but it's true of all frames at low levels. If someone goes looking for a space wizard they're going to pick Volt and they're going to be disappointed in the long run and they won't want to hear how great his utility is because that's not why they picked him.

 

 

Edited September 16, 2014 by VKhaun

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Damage throughput on weapons should be a skill tree.  Utility should be kept as a mod system.  This is the best of both worlds and gives the most balanced but varied gameplay.

[Malikon]

Damage throughput on weapons should be a skill tree.  Utility should be kept as a mod system.  This is the best of both worlds and gives the most balanced but varied gameplay.

I dont think you really read OPs suggestion either. He is suggesting that the mod system as it stands now stays in place (sans the need for warframe ability cards),  AND add an additional way to customize the base effects of warframe skills, which would then be affected by the slotted mods.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Malikon

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I dont think you really read OPs suggestion either. He is suggesting that the mod system as it stands now stays in place (sans the need for warframe ability cards),  AND add an additional way to customize the base effects of warframe skills, which would then be affected by the slotted mods.

He was talking about Frame Skills and a supplemented Mod x Skill-Tree design, yeah? 

 

I made a similar suggest about weapons.  If you read my post, you would see where I specifically typed: "weapons".

[Malikon]

He was talking about Frame Skills and a supplemented Mod x Skill-Tree design, yeah? 

 

I made a similar suggest about weapons.  If you read my post, you would see where I specifically typed: "weapons".

I did read your post. Since this thread is about abilities specific to warframes themselves and you were commenting on weapons and utility, it sounded to me like you had misunderstood the topic.  My apologies.

 

Edit: clarity.

Re-edit: grammar now too :/

Edited September 16, 2014 by Malikon

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I did read your post. Since this thread is about abilities specific to warframes themselves and you were commenting on weapons and utility, it sounded to me like you had misunderstood the topic.  My apologies.

 

Edit: clarity.

Re-edit: grammar now too :/

Nope, I like the idea of skill trees + mod system and think it should apply to the game as a whole, both frames and weapons.

[Malikon]

Very good, Now I can give DesecratedFlame and OP a +1.

[Azawarau]

Volt is in a very good place. I did not say he wasn't. I haven't played him in a while but he's one of my all-time favorites and the prime that I want most of all.

 

He is NOT however a potent alternative to gun play at the end of the game. If DE_Scott is going to tell us utility->damage is the plan then it's essentially false advertising to sell a frame that says it's a potent alternative to gunplay.

 

It may be true at low levels, but it's true of all frames at low levels. If someone goes looking for a space wizard they're going to pick Volt and they're going to be disappointed in the long run and they won't want to hear how great his utility is because that's not why they picked him.

 

 

Hes literally the run and gun frame

 

Shock while reloading or firing

 

High movement speed to avoid enemy fire

 

Shield to hold a position

 

He synergies with guns very well

 

 

The damage boosts in the tree would only have to boost the damage high enough that with the help of mods the skill can preform better than currently.

This is something that I believe would need to be worked on while it is in practice.

Then we think very much alike.

Its very much a longshot on DEs part of they take this path

 

Id love to see it but the work needed and the unfortunately high amount of people wanting an imbalance in the game make adding something like this worrysome

[Scherhardt]

high amount of people wanting an imbalance in the game make adding something like this worrysome

This is the biggest thing that hinders great changes not only this.