Melee Diversity

[astrobird]

So far so good. As space ninja, I'm privy to the idea that we posess more than just simple knowledge of swordplay and fisty punch antics. I'd say the PCs have a bit more on their martial plates than what we are restricted to, and we should expand on that.

What if we had a wider variety of things to hit our enemies with?

How about daggers? Much like swords, but their charge could be a dash, a projectile, or even just a repeating slash for quick damage. The key point to this weapon is unparalelled and sustained DPS while keeping with the idea of a fast and mobile playstyle..

"But astrobird" you plead, tears beginning to form in your visors, "What of my fisty-punch gauntlets?! Won't they be useless compared to the glorious knife you mentioned?"

Not entirely, I reply as I set my hand on your shoulder, providing minimal contact, but maximum comfort.

Fist weapons would be simply rebalanced to have higher amounts of stun, not quite enough to stunlock, but enough to make any enemy stagger when you smack them upside their head. This is to encourage the berserk mode playstyle fist weapons should exemplify. After all, whenever I play punchy characters or use fist weapons, I go in hard or go home.

How about bigger and better weapons?

Let's try an axe or a hammer for instance. At the cost of speed, you get sheer stopping power and a devestating charge move. Your normal attack would be slower (at about 0.75x of a sword swing) but it would posess much greater range and damage per strike than your sword. Your charge attack would be equally slower, but posess the amazing ability to send people flying! Think of it as a sort of roundabout golf swing.

While we're on the topic of wider melee arsenal, I feel obligated to reiterate what many a hundred thread stated prior to this one:

We need melee combos.

The two repeating hits are nice, but a little variety would be nicer than that. I mean you could even order it like so to further drive home the point of melee diversity:

Fists: 6 hit combo (Fast, allowing for easy and seamless switches from gunplay to fistplay, but still capable of stunning enemies for some quick breathing room to encourage a balls-deep playstyle)

Dagger: 5 hit combo (Quick, but has many hits, benifiting greatly from criticals to encourage a blend of hit and run and sticking to your target.)

Sword: 4 hit combo (Average in every sense that a space ninja should be, this weapon would allow for the best balance between damage and utility)

Staff: 3 hit combo (Sluggish, that way utility would outweigh damage. Still a capable melee weapon for sure, but primarily utlity. It's primary function should be range and a quick charge attack for maximum efficiency)

Polearm: 2 hit combo (Slow. It's only use is for absolutely armor cracking, pants wetting, clock cleaning stopping power. It's profession? Sending your enemies either flying inside, or into, bodybags.)

And for added fun, I wanted to include a personal suggestion of mine:

Concussive Weapons:

These are pretty much PURE UTILITY weapons. They deal almost no damage, have a 1 hit combo that is relatively slow, but they can stun bosses really quickly, send light mooks sailing into the stars, and knock heavier targets flat onto their asses.

The way I envision it, it would be a sort of gauntlet on the off arm of your PC, and upon activation, you would get a brief windup followed by a ever-so-satisfying BLAST.

The kind of blast that distorts your screen BEFORE it goes off.

The kind of blast that makes sure your enemy isn't walking for a while because his body got slammed with the equivalent of concentrated dubstep.

The kind of blast that scientists looking at the battle site would assume that a meteor struck your enemies.

THAT kind of blast.

But these are only a few ideas.

Not raw or concrete details, but it's a start, don't you think?

Any question or comments?

[PaleMinerva]

There's already daggers.

[KGeddon]

Keep in mind that diversity is limited by the 7 mod slots on the melee weapon upgrade grid. If they keep multiplicative values, making diversity will force nerfs elsewhere to prevent extreme gamebreaking specialization(esp in the damage department)

[TheRealTuna]

Not entirely, I reply as I set my hand on your shoulder, providing minimal contact, but maximum comfort.

LOL

[astrobird]

There's already daggers.

Well now that's just awkward.

Uh... Do the dagger happen to work at least thematically similar to what I had in mind? :V

Keep in mind that diversity is limited by the 7 mod slots on the melee weapon upgrade grid. If they keep multiplicative values, making diversity will force nerfs elsewhere to prevent extreme gamebreaking specialization(esp in the damage department)

If mods are an issue, there is only one solution:

We must kill the BatMod.

What I mean by that is that nerfs are a feasible alternative to having some melee diversity. Sure, the game says sword and gunplay on the tin, but that doesnt mean we restrict it to just that, and if nerfing the curent weapons could accomplish that, I wouldnt complain.

[Bennyworld]

Its in beta, this stuff im sure will be added at some point - but for the moment - just roll with it. I would copy and paste this onto notepad, and, on full release, maybe post this again or email it to them again, if most of these havent been done. Have fun with warframe !

Bennyworld

[astrobird]

Still can't hurt to get a dev or someone on the staff to comment on this issue though, right?

[Tetsmeha]

Not entirely, I reply as I set my hand on your shoulder, providing minimal contact, but maximum comfort.

This is the funniest thing i've ever read on this forum lol

[The-Blacksmith]

+1 on theme/general idea. Called for melee combo abilities and directional attacks in my compilation thread, though didn't give much thought to extra weapon types. Mind if I add that idea into mine and credit you/this thread?

[astrobird]

+1 on theme/general idea. Called for melee combo abilities and directional attacks in my compilation thread, though didn't give much thought to extra weapon types. Mind if I add that idea into mine and credit you/this thread?

By all means, go for it. If I knew there was another weapon thread, I would have posted it there instead. Alas, the search function is about as useful as daredevil in an art gallery.

[MediocreHero]

I like these ideas quite much and I am a sucker for combo systems and the such. So far we have a pretty decent and standard base of attacks and weapons. The introduction of newer weapon types probably won't happen until release seeing as how that will keep players playing in the future. Im pretty sure the dev's have quite alot of ideas in mind but are waiting till the right time to release these for the public to keep the game well populated. And Astrobird you are one funny dude, 10/10 would read OP again.

[The-Blacksmith]

By all means, go for it. If I knew there was another weapon thread, I would have posted it there instead. Alas, the search function is about as useful as daredevil in an art gallery.

Well my thread is a genearl compendium of ideas and such, so it probably wouldn't have come up. There's just a section on combat tweaks :D Updating my thread now!

[[DE]Steve]

Without giving away too much, new stuff is coming soon and expanding melee is exactly what we want as well.

[Collussus]

Without giving away too much, new stuff is coming soon and expanding melee is exactly what we want as well.

That's just throwing candy at us and telling us we can't eat it.....

[Matter]

That's just throwing candy at us and telling us we can't eat it.....

Least he's giving us a hint, there's no point in giving out all the special goodies. it would make it less special!

[[DE]Steve]

I know, and I hate doing that. :( Expect new weapons coming sooner than expanded combos (which gets more complex due to the number of melee weapon grips we're supporting.

[astrobird]

Without giving away too much, new stuff is coming soon and expanding melee is exactly what we want as well.

GOOD ENOUGH

HERE, HAVE MY MONEY

On a side note, have you fellows seen my other tread regarding emotes in game?

I want muh teaser pls

[The-Blacksmith]

Without giving away too much, new stuff is coming soon and expanding melee is exactly what we want as well.

I'm not sure, but I think I just had sex.

[Reyouka]

They could always just put punch daggers ingame, for fist users.

Yes, those are a thing.

[Matter]

AIR COMBOSSSSSSSS CHAINING HITS, POW POW POW POW

[Collussus]

AIR COMBOSSSSSSSS CHAINING HITS, POW POW POW POW

You can already do that.... In a way.

[Matter]

You can already do that.... In a way.

I Know but like a more intricate system where you can do a lot more things in the air :D

[Tetsmeha]

Would be neat having normal hit combos and heavy hit combos.

But I feel the gameplay would have to be revamped too much from it's current state.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Tetsmeha

[MediocreHero]

Anyone else just get really hyped from hearing that little bit of info.

[NihilisticGoliath]

Fists: 6 hit combo (Fast, allowing for easy and seamless switches from gunplay to fistplay, but still capable of stunning enemies for some quick breathing room to encourage a balls-deep playstyle)

Yes, a Fists of Fury-type attack would be nice.

Fist weapons should be fast-striking weapons, doing reduced damage to shields, but punching through armor better than most other weapons.

Dagger: 5 hit combo (Quick, but has many hits, benifiting greatly from criticals to encourage a blend of hit and run and sticking to your target.)

I think daggers should do little damage up-front, but cause your target to bleed. Special move would be a series of strikes (4-8), doing standard damage - but if all of these rapid attacks strike a single taget, it gets a massive bleed effect.

As daggers are fast weapons, they should do more damage to shields, but less damage to armor.

Sword: 4 hit combo (Average in every sense that a space ninja should be, this weapon would allow for the best balance between damage and utility)

I like the sword as it is, but for a "special move"... I'm thinking a highly offensive move that leaves you open to attack if you choose to use it, but if it hits, it inflicts devastation on your target. Perhaps a 4-hit combo, as per your suggestion, would be fitting - each strike slower than the one before, but each strike gaining armor or/and shield penetration (or perhaps downright ignoring armor and shields). It would leave you immobile (or at least almost) while performed. That way you'd have to really find a good opportunity to use it, or risk being left vulnerable with your enemies' weapons aimed in your direction.

Swords are kind of the baseline melee weapons for this game, in my eyes, and should as such do standard damage to all types - armored, shielded or not, the sword should be the all-around weapon.

Staff: 3 hit combo (Sluggish, that way utility would outweigh damage. Still a capable melee weapon for sure, but primarily utlity. It's primary function should be range and a quick charge attack for maximum efficiency)

Staves could use a combo attack aimed at the opponent's legs, impairing their movement for a period of time, giving you time to retreat to a safer distance, where you can pick them off with your firearms.

Polearm: 2 hit combo (Slow. It's only use is for absolutely armor cracking, pants wetting, clock cleaning stopping power. It's profession? Sending your enemies either flying inside, or into, bodybags.)

I have another idea, separate from yours, here - heavy, edged, weapons (two-handed swords and axes) would have the ability to hit multiple enemies at once with their power attacks. I've frequently had problems with the charge-up attack of my sword only hitting once enemy, even if there are several enemies standing practically _inside_ of each other. Having a slower weapon with the ability to take out grouped-up enemies would be useful as well as cool.

Maybe heavy weapons should have different effects depending on weapon type? Greatswords being the same as swords, doing overall good damage, but having no specific area of expertise. Axes would tear unarmored targets to pieces. Spiked maces would make even the heaviest-armored enemies bleed. Hammer-type maces would knock down and then be able to follow up with a devastating finisher on any one target laying on the floor.

And for added fun, I wanted to include a personal suggestion of mine: Concussive Weapons.

Quite like the idea, but it sounds a little redundant. Sure, it would be cool to see a shockwave stun or knock down an enemy (or a group of them, for that matter), but the sword jump-attack (haven't tried fist weapons, so I don't know if those have it as well) has a rather potent knock-down effect already. Also, this would take the slot of your melee weapon, yeah? That would mean that you are rather useless once you run out of bullets. With standard weaponry, you can at least hit the enemies (or provide knock-down support) while dealing at least some damage.

The thing I'm thinking the most of, however, is how you'd trigger the special moves instead of the normal or charge-up attacks. Would it have it's own key, or would you have to execute the combo manually? Perhaps it'd be like a fighting game, where you hit a combination of buttons and your character uses the special move?