Lex Prime And Marelok

[Seanjuju]

1. Because Lex Prime is a Prime Component. Seeing that Prime weapons are arguably the most rare weapons compared to clan-tech weapons, they should at least be on-par. It's a fundamental rule of basically any MMO, the rarer weapons are generally stronger. In this case I do not even request stronger, I request them to be on par. 

 

2. You are simply wrong on this. If you have played any MMO outside of Warframe, or frankly any loot-based game, you should realize that the rarer weapons are usually better. Other than being common sense, without this factor, other than novelty, there would be no incentive to achieve the rarer item, alongside incentive being relevant to the time-investment vs. pay to skip model of free-to-play games, especially in Warframe.

 

3. I have made a simple argument that if you read the entirety of my post you would have understood that the key principle is rarity, that you may seem to ignore simply because you may not want to farm for a Lex Prime or for any other reason. The other way is, why should Marelok outclass Lex Prime in every damage type? Can you provide any concrete reason for why it should other than the fact it currently is? Mastery Rank is out of the question because there is no debate that Mastery Rank requirements need to be reworked for Prime weapons.

So unless you can provide a solid reason as to why Lex Prime shouldn't be buffed, good day to you. Don't try to argue power creep because Lex Prime came after Marelok, Lex Prime in build 13.0, and Marelok in build 12.3.

 

1. Warframe doesn't follow any such rule. Rarity has little to do with power.

2.Again, warframe doesn't follow any such rule. You could argue that the prime system has increasing rarity with power but clan tech is an independent system.

3a. There is simply no evidence behind your rarity argument as it pertains to clan tech vs prime gear. Mastery is an outdated system but does have applications here; prime weapons have always been, essentially, exempt of requirements and allow for weapon acquisition outside of the mastery system. There is debate with regard to the mastery system and prime gear. The prime gear system operates with different rules, independently of the market and clan-tech systems. The fact that prime gear operates outside of the mastery system is a factor.

 

3b. Is there a reason Lex Prime should be viewed only in terms of the Marelok? Lex Prime is a considerable upgrade to the Lex and has no glaring issues in its operation. Lex Prime excels in puncture damage and Marelok does not so it doesn't outclass Lex Prime in every damage type; not that it would matter.

 

4. The burden falls to those who want a change to identify an issue. You haven't presented a reasonable argument for why Lex Prime should be buffed. Prime gear is not automatically greater than or equal to clan-tech; the same goes for clan-tech.

[SilverHazzes]

Rarity it´s just for swagg most of the time, if prime gear was the best we will be forced to use only prime gear ¿That´s what you want?

Your car can have golden rims with diamonds on top of the screws but that will not make it faster or improve the performance.

Something else you still don´t count it´s that Lex Prime is a straight upgrade of the Lex and that is actually a very strong pistol but most of the complainings are just for giving it more and more power just because people feel bad about their weapon not being as strong as the Marelok. What´s the problem ? because I don´t get it, a friend of mine puted 4 forma into his Lex Prime and he still one or two shot heavy gunners in late game, If that doesn´t prove to you that Lex Prime is competent and strong I don´t know whats the point of the post aside from being upset for not having more more power.

[marelooke]

While we're at it we should nerf the Brakk, Despair, Kunai and every other good weapon so we can make Lato feel viable in game.

 

Undoing the Lato nerf would be a really good start. I loved that gun when I started out, but nowadays all it does when I look at it is make me sad :(

[MirageKnight]

The Marelok's problem is that even though it's essentially a cut down Grinlok - and logically ought to fire the same ammunition but with reduced effective range and accuracy - it does BETTER damage than the Grinlok which I feel is incorrect and inconsistent. The Marelok's damage ought to be identical to the Grinok's.

 

That being said, let's compare the Lex / Lex Prime with the Marelok:

 

The Marelok is a hefty, bulky pistol capable of firing a heavy caliber, high impact bullet and is only really effective out to mid range at best. Basically a crude but effective weapon vs shielded enemies and pretty typical of Grineer weaponry.

 

The Lex / Lex P is a sleek, compact weapon designed to fire a smaller but very high velocity, armour-piercing round. While it has a fairly hefty recoil if fired rapidly, it can land shots well at long range. An extremely effective and efficient weapon for what it does: Complimenting an assault rifle by allowing you to headshot armoured opponents at long range.

 

Aside from the Marelok's damage not matching up with the Grinlok's, I really don't see a problem with either weapon.

[MechaTails]

I can't help but giggle because I doubt DE puts this much thought into weapon balance/logic. It's like those people who think Nintendo puts a ton of effort into naming and creating Pokemon, pages and pages of arguing over that when in reality they just ad-lib the next batch of monsters lol.

[Eudamon]

I have both Lex Prime and Marelock, and I like them both.

 

Lex Prime is a sleek, pretty gun. Marelock, especially with the spinning animation after a shot, is simpy badass.

 

Both are fun to play, both do reasonable damage, and both are secondaries. I do enjoy taking on levels with secondaries, but generally speaking they are support weapons. The primary is the main damage dealer.

 

With the Vectis I usually choose a fully automatic weapon like the Furis, or something like that. With the Boltor or Phage (especially Phage, with its short range) I choose the Marelock or the Lex Prime, depending on the mission and the opponent.

 

I am all for pimping up the Lex Prime a bit with a buff, but I would like the Marelock to remain what it is - ugly, huge, slow and not ashamed of overkill.

[SergeiTheBeast]

Buff Lex Prime.

 

Leave Marelok alone.

[blade00000009]

Discussions about accuracy are headscratchers for me. When i first got Marelok, my aim was terrible, i was missing enemies 10 feet away. It seemed like a crappy way to compensate for the high damage. After a few missions, i got used to it and now i can snipe enemies across the stage.

What does this tell us? Can players intuitively compensate for bad accuracy? If we lower the Marelok's accuracy, wont I just get used to it again and we'll be back to square one? When will it stop, when the accuracy reaches 0?

And yes i know op isnt asking for acc nerf, its just food for thought

Accuracy nerf not needed. You cannot get headshots with it at 15 meters. 

[blade00000009]

Holy S#&$, I'm just going through the thread to see how many people didn't read the OP. So many people don't know how to read apparently.

They say that. They just go to the end of the thread and start yapping to other people about what they think.

[blade00000009]

I don´t find any sense in this topic. From time to time topics like this one pop up complaining about the Lex Prime. But that´s not the point of the talk.

Marelok isn´t a sniper,you can snipe with it and the first bullet will allways land in the enemies head, you can do that with lots of weapons in this game so I assume you talk about it´s single shot power but out of that it doesn´t work like a sniper and it doesn´t have sniper drawbacks ore accuracy.

What´s the problem I ask? Lex Prime is powerful and it works very well on T4 without too much trouble if of course you know how to manage it´s way of function. 

Rarity doesn´t mean more power in Warframe, it just means rarity. Soma, Vectis, Akvastos, Kronen and such are very high tier weapons and you can get them from the market, being clan tech or prime doesn´t necessary make you OP or nothing like that. I won´t disscus about Mareloks power because it´s just what it is, one of those powerful weapons in a videogame and that isn´t anything bad. If you worry about power bring more sinergy to the table, it isn´t only damage the thing that makes you stand long runs, your capacity for making decissions and bringing the right configurations and loadout would push you further because at some point the endless mode will get rid of you and trust me that that endless mode is the only thing that makes the weapons fall of and that´s what it has to be looked into.

Because thing that enemys scale in power and damage but not us, if there was a kind of system that gave us some kind of extra power and potential depending on certain goals we can make during the progression of the mission we would have more chances to get into a type of game that doesn´t turn into radial blind spam, bastillee spam or desecrate spam when we get to higher levels.

Sniper pistol is vauge. I really meant to say high damage single shot pistols. Would have been better

[MirageKnight]

They say that. They just go to the end of the thread and start yapping to other people about what they think.

 

Keep in mind that a discussion was started and as in any discussion, things tend to meander a bit.

 

On topic: While the Lex Prime could possibly benefit from a small buff (even though it is definitely superior to the regular Lex and worthy of being a Prime), the Marelok could do with a damage reduction to have it match the Grinlok.

 

As someone else pointed out in this thread, the Lex Prime is in a pretty good spot stat-wise as it stands now and modded properly it can easily take down "end game" content with little problem. Mine does 700+ Radiation and 700+ Puncture at least and headshots reliably. A higher Crit chance and an extra polarity would be nice...but it's not really needed IMO. 

[Arabaxus]

Rarity it´s just for swagg most of the time, if prime gear was the best we will be forced to use only prime gear ¿That´s what you want?

Your car can have golden rims with diamonds on top of the screws but that will not make it faster or improve the performance.

Something else you still don´t count it´s that Lex Prime is a straight upgrade of the Lex and that is actually a very strong pistol but most of the complainings are just for giving it more and more power just because people feel bad about their weapon not being as strong as the Marelok. What´s the problem ? because I don´t get it, a friend of mine puted 4 forma into his Lex Prime and he still one or two shot heavy gunners in late game, If that doesn´t prove to you that Lex Prime is competent and strong I don´t know whats the point of the post aside from being upset for not having more more power.

 

Braton Prime > Braton

Lex Prime > Lex

Boltor Prime > Boltor

Bo Prime > Bo

Orthos Prime > Orthos

Dakra Prime > Cronus

Paris Prime > Paris

Latron Prime > Latron

Boar Prime > Boar

 

See the difference? Prime weapons are better than regular weapons. Paris Prime is better than all bows other than Dread, since both are rare. Latron Prime is stronger than Sybaris or Latron. They are rarer. 

The weapons that are not Prime and are generally considered the best are the ones that do not fit into Orokin Technology lore. Amprex/Synapse are some of the most powerful continuous weapons, albeit Clantech, and rightfully so, since they do not fit into the idea of Orokin tech. But when the weapon category fits, Prime weapons have in every right to be on top, because of rarity. You can talk about mastery rank but that has always been a universally recognized problem, especially with regards to Prime Weapons.

 

The Lex Prime is a decent weapon, much like the Braton Prime is a decent weapon. With catalysts and 4 forma you can easily take down heavy gunners in your nebulous "late game" definition. Ironically, Braton Prime is roughly equivalent to Karak and Soma is clearly better, where the current Attica is also stronger than it. That doesn't mean it couldn't use some buffing, both Braton Prime and Lex Prime alike.

 

1. Warframe doesn't follow any such rule. Rarity has little to do with power.

2.Again, warframe doesn't follow any such rule. You could argue that the prime system has increasing rarity with power but clan tech is an independent system.

3a. There is simply no evidence behind your rarity argument as it pertains to clan tech vs prime gear. Mastery is an outdated system but does have applications here; prime weapons have always been, essentially, exempt of requirements and allow for weapon acquisition outside of the mastery system. There is debate with regard to the mastery system and prime gear. The prime gear system operates with different rules, independently of the market and clan-tech systems. The fact that prime gear operates outside of the mastery system is a factor.

 

3b. Is there a reason Lex Prime should be viewed only in terms of the Marelok? Lex Prime is a considerable upgrade to the Lex and has no glaring issues in its operation. Lex Prime excels in puncture damage and Marelok does not so it doesn't outclass Lex Prime in every damage type; not that it would matter.

 

4. The burden falls to those who want a change to identify an issue. You haven't presented a reasonable argument for why Lex Prime should be buffed. Prime gear is not automatically greater than or equal to clan-tech; the same goes for clan-tech.

 

1. This is already a clear mistake in the fundamental system of how weapon and weapon progression works. 

 

2. Clan-Tech is not an independent system. Shop, Clan-Tech, and Prime Weapons are all methods of acquiring different weapons. Shop and Clantech both involve being able to replicate the same weapon over and over after an initial investment. Prime Weapons must be farmed for the parts every single time. You can argue that Prime weapons aren't the best like the other poster, but seeing that most of the most powerful weapons, Paris Prime, Boltor Prime, Latron Prime, and Amprex, the strongest of the generic niches, Bows, Precision Rifles, and Automatic Rifles, are stronger. Amprex does not fit into the lore of Orokin Technology, and thus as a special niche weapon, it has every right to be on top, even though it is clantech. Angstrum was, and still is one of the most powerful secondaries in shop, but explosive secondaries again do not fit into Orokin lore, and thus Angstrum is justifiably powerful.

 

3. It matters, if nothing else, due to the fact numbers are not subjective, and you are simply incorrect, showing the amount of research you have actually done to support your argument other than state subjective facts. 

 

4. It should. And if you have examined the weapon categories, past history also supports that Prime versions are equivalent to the top, if not the top, of every single category that fits into Orokin Lore. Consider this:

 

Automatic Rifles: The most powerful of them is Boltor Prime.

 

Semi-Automatic Rifles: The most powerful of them is shared between Latron Wraith and Latron Prime

 

Bows: Paris Prime and Dread share the top spot.

 

Shotguns: Boar Prime is on top, arguably equal to Strun Wraith though one is rapid fire and one focuses on more powerful, slower shots.

 

Sniper Rifles: No Orokin Sniper exists.

 

Secondary Shotguns: AKBronco Prime is equal/greater than AKBronco, while Brakk is on top because it is rarer than AKBronco Prime, and the parts cannot be traded. Even when Prime is not on top, the rarity rule is followed and maintained.

 

Single Handed Swords: Dakra Prime is on top as the strongest physical damage sword.

 

Nikana: No Orokin Katana exists

 

Polearm: Orthos Prime is the best physical damage polearm, Serro is the best elemental damage polearm.

 

Staff: Bo Prime is the strongest Staff.

 

So, based on evidence, rarity does indeed have to do with power. It is not simply whether a weapon is a Prime or not, as Brakk is living proof.

 

Now examine the second point where you are simply wrong.

 

 

Now comparisons for all damage types with Marelok on the top and the following damage table for Lex Prime immediately following.

 

Based on previous experiments with my previous topic on this issue, I can near guarantee that no matter what build you put together for Lex Prime, be it base damage or Critical Hits, it will not top Marelok's damage output in any damage type. Note these builds, based on elemental combinations, are made in favor for Grineer factions, which Puncture damage, and Lex Prime, should have an edge over.

 

So, if you would like to provide any actual solid evidence to support your assertion that:

 

 

1. Warframe doesn't follow any such rule. Rarity has little to do with power.

2.Again, warframe doesn't follow any such rule. You could argue that the prime system has increasing rarity with power but clan tech is an independent system.

3a. There is simply no evidence behind your rarity argument as it pertains to clan tech vs prime gear. Mastery is an outdated system but does have applications here; prime weapons have always been, essentially, exempt of requirements and allow for weapon acquisition outside of the mastery system. There is debate with regard to the mastery system and prime gear. The prime gear system operates with different rules, independently of the market and clan-tech systems. The fact that prime gear operates outside of the mastery system is a factor.

 

3b. Is there a reason Lex Prime should be viewed only in terms of the Marelok? Lex Prime is a considerable upgrade to the Lex and has no glaring issues in its operation. Lex Prime excels in puncture damage and Marelok does not so it doesn't outclass Lex Prime in every damage type; not that it would matter.

 

4. The burden falls to those who want a change to identify an issue. You haven't presented a reasonable argument for why Lex Prime should be buffed. Prime gear is not automatically greater than or equal to clan-tech; the same goes for clan-tech.

 

 

It would be welcomed. Until then, I will simply assume these statements are simply baseless accusations with no solid backing. So no, you have not presented any reasonable evidence to back up these claims.   

Edited September 16, 2014 by Arabaxus

[Quizel]

Based on previous experiments with my previous topic on this issue, I can near guarantee that no matter what build you put together for Lex Prime, be it base damage or Critical Hits, it will not top Marelok's damage output in any damage type.

 

So, if you would like to provide any actual solid evidence to support your assertion that:

 

It would be welcomed. Until then, I will simply assume these statements are simply baseless accusations with no solid backing. So no, you have not presented any reasonable evidence to back up these claims.   

Good post sir. Really can't refute it. However, consider the following.

 

Lex Prime is a marksman crit weapon meaning it has high head shot potential.  The high accuracy produces a very very very tight spread (when I tested it might have been just the recoil producing the spread) when using the zoom/right-click while marelok has a spread that starts to become noticeable beyond 10m (potentially misses body shots beyond 30m). This makes the Marelok less practical for a head shots at any distance beyond 10m, but still fairly reliable up to 20m. For these reasons, I wouldn't model Marelok for head shots.

 

If you model Lex Prime as a crit build performing head shots and marelok going for body shots, Lex Prime will dominate marelok against every faction on paper->shocking result ino >.>.  The only down side is that it requires far more skill and the recoil does prevent achieving listed rate of fire if you want to actually land the head shot. Unless you're beyond godly player who can adjust for the recoil perfectly while tracking the targets head.

 

With all that said, because of the ease of use, the Marelok is the go to weapon and I'd rate it higher than Lex Prime.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Quizel

[MechaTails]

If you model Lex Prime as a crit build performing head shots and marelok going for body shots, Lex Prime will dominate marelok against every faction on paper->shocking result ino >.>.

 

What?! Different weapons require different techniques to be used effectively!? Different weapons are to be used in different ways!? What is this witchcraft!? Off with his head! lol

Edited September 16, 2014 by DarkTails

[Arabaxus]

Good post sir. Really can't refute it. However, consider the following.

 

Lex Prime is a marksman crit weapon meaning it has high head shot potential.  The high accuracy produces a very very very tight spread (when I tested it might have been just the recoil producing the spread) when using the zoom/right-click while marelok has a spread that starts to become noticeable beyond 10m (potentially misses body shots beyond 30m). This makes the Marelok less practical for a head shots at any distance beyond 10m, but still fairly reliable up to 20m. For these reasons, I wouldn't model Marelok for head shots.

 

If you model Lex Prime as a crit build performing head shots and marelok going for body shots, Lex Prime will dominate marelok against every faction on paper->shocking result ino >.>.  The only down side is that it requires far more skill and the recoil does prevent achieving listed rate of fire if you want to actually land the head shot. Unless you're beyond godly player who can adjust for the recoil perfectly while tracking the targets head.

 

With all that said, because of the ease of use, the Marelok is the go to weapon and I'd rate it higher than Lex Prime.

 

That's a great point, and why I think buffing the critical multipliers and chance for Lex Prime is an as fair change as any raw damage change because it further distinguishes the two weapons and promotes decisions based on what the player wants. The issue is Marelok and Lex Prime can both go for head shots, and the Marelok will outperform solely due to the difference in base raw damage, alongside it having the benefit of fantastic status chance too. What I think it should be closer to is Dread and Paris, both have the same base damage, but Dread has better critical chance, so overall Dread is better, but Paris can still outperform Dread in Robotic and Ferrite? Armor types, because it is mainly Puncture damage. However, this key point just seems to be missing with regards with these two pistols.

 

 

What?! Different weapons require different techniques to be used effectively!? Different weapons are to be used in different ways!? What is this witchcraft!? Off with his head! lol

 

This has been flung around as people claim Boltor Prime to be overpowered while Latron and Paris are even stronger when used with said different techniques correctly. Another reason I have no issue with Marelok's current power, it's a user-friendly, competitive secondary, and should stay that way. Lex Prime however should also be competitive, but the current power gap is too large, where the reward for "skillful" play is not really large enough to justify nor encourage players to use it.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Arabaxus

[blade00000009]

 

"This has been flung around as people claim Boltor Prime to be overpowered while Latron and Paris are even stronger when used with said different techniques correctly. Another reason I have no issue with Marelok's current power, it's a user-friendly, competitive secondary, and should stay that way. Lex Prime however should also be competitive, but the current power gap is too large, where the reward for "skillful" play is not really large enough to justify nor encourage players to use it."

Note: I do not want to nerf the marelok. I want to buff the lex prime damage and/or critical chance and damage to 25% base and maybe a 2.5 damage multiplier depending on how the math works out. I want it to be on par with the marelok. A trade off can be nerf the lex primes status and buff everything else I listed. I want a fair buff when you work all the math out. This would require quite the buff to the lex prime as the marelok has beastly status and almost 2x the damage at base of the lex prime. 

[Arabaxus]

 

 

"This has been flung around as people claim Boltor Prime to be overpowered while Latron and Paris are even stronger when used with said different techniques correctly. Another reason I have no issue with Marelok's current power, it's a user-friendly, competitive secondary, and should stay that way. Lex Prime however should also be competitive, but the current power gap is too large, where the reward for "skillful" play is not really large enough to justify nor encourage players to use it."

Note: I do not want to nerf the marelok. I want to buff the lex prime damage and/or critical chance and damage to 25% base and maybe a 2.5 damage multiplier depending on how the math works out. I want it to be on par with the marelok. A trade off can be nerf the lex primes status and buff everything else I listed. I want a fair buff when you work all the math out. This would require quite the buff to the lex prime as the marelok has beastly status and almost 2x the damage at base of the lex prime. 

 

 

http://strawpoll.me/2579031

 

And before you ask, I am not in favor of dividing the community with more nerfs so nerfing Marelok is not an option in the poll. If anything, this buff would be complimented with a Grinlok damage and reload speed buff.

 

And I am in full support of not nerfing.

[Seanjuju]

 

 

 

 

1. This is already a clear mistake in the fundamental system of how weapon and weapon progression works. 

 

2. Clan-Tech is not an independent system. Shop, Clan-Tech, and Prime Weapons are all methods of acquiring different weapons. Shop and Clantech both involve being able to replicate the same weapon over and over after an initial investment. Prime Weapons must be farmed for the parts every single time. You can argue that Prime weapons aren't the best like the other poster, but seeing that most of the most powerful weapons, Paris Prime, Boltor Prime, Latron Prime, and Amprex, the strongest of the generic niches, Bows, Precision Rifles, and Automatic Rifles, are stronger. Amprex does not fit into the lore of Orokin Technology, and thus as a special niche weapon, it has every right to be on top, even though it is clantech. Angstrum was, and still is one of the most powerful secondaries in shop, but explosive secondaries again do not fit into Orokin lore, and thus Angstrum is justifiably powerful.

 

3. It matters, if nothing else, due to the fact numbers are not subjective, and you are simply incorrect, showing the amount of research you have actually done to support your argument other than state subjective facts. 

 

4. It should. And if you have examined the weapon categories, past history also supports that Prime versions are equivalent to the top, if not the top, of every single category that fits into Orokin Lore. Consider this:

 

Automatic Rifles: The most powerful of them is Boltor Prime.

 

Semi-Automatic Rifles: The most powerful of them is shared between Latron Wraith and Latron Prime

 

Bows: Paris Prime and Dread share the top spot.

 

Shotguns: Boar Prime is on top, arguably equal to Strun Wraith though one is rapid fire and one focuses on more powerful, slower shots.

 

Sniper Rifles: No Orokin Sniper exists.

 

Secondary Shotguns: AKBronco Prime is equal/greater than AKBronco, while Brakk is on top because it is rarer than AKBronco Prime, and the parts cannot be traded. Even when Prime is not on top, the rarity rule is followed and maintained.

 

Single Handed Swords: Dakra Prime is on top as the strongest physical damage sword.

 

Nikana: No Orokin Katana exists

 

Polearm: Orthos Prime is the best physical damage polearm, Serro is the best elemental damage polearm.

 

Staff: Bo Prime is the strongest Staff.

 

So, based on evidence, rarity does indeed have to do with power. It is not simply whether a weapon is a Prime or not, as Brakk is living proof.

 

 

So, if you would like to provide any actual solid evidence to support your assertion that:

 

 

 

 

It would be welcomed. Until then, I will simply assume these statements are simply baseless accusations with no solid backing. So no, you have not presented any reasonable evidence to back up these claims.   

You left some Evidence out.

Sybaris>Burston Prime

Pyrana>Bronco Prime and AkBronco Prime

Dera>Braton Prime

 

You said a lot but you didn't establish a pattern in which prime weapons are always stronger in their field compared to clan-tech. Of the few fields prime gear and clan-tech arguably share, clan-tech frequently performs better.

 

Prime gear is not automatically equal-to or greater-than clan tech.

[Arabaxus]

You left some Evidence out.

Sybaris>Burston Prime

Pyrana>Bronco Prime and AkBronco Prime

Dera>Braton Prime

 

You said a lot but you didn't establish a pattern in which prime weapons are always stronger in their field compared to clan-tech. Of the few fields prime gear and clan-tech arguably share, clan-tech frequently performs better.

 

Prime gear is not automatically equal-to or greater-than clan tech.

 

You clearly aren't paying attention. 

 

Sybaris is a precision rifle similar to Latron Prime, due to the shared nature of high critical chance, small magazine size and fire rate. The Burston is a more versatile weapon that is in its own category, as it is not fair to compare them to either Precision or Automatic weapons. Point being, Burston doesn't have the ability to hold down the trigger and continually fire shots, but is not necessarily precision oriented, and thus should be in its own category. 

 

Because I believe in proving my points other than simply making assertions and claiming them as evidence, let me actually prove some points as to why Burston is incomparable to Sybaris.

 

Effective Fire-Rate of Sybaris is 4.00 when you calculate burst delay into its base rate of fire. Burston Prime's effective Fire-Rate is 8.57, more than twice that. By comparison, the Latron Prime has a base maximum fire rate (after which the gun "jams" if you try to fire too fast) of 4.00. Clearly Sybaris is leagues more similar than Burston when it comes to fitting the profile of precision weapons. On the other hand, compare Burston Prime's fire rate to automatic weapons, like Boltor Prime's fire-rate of 10 or Braton Prime's fire-rate of 8.8.

Meanwhile, The magazine size. Sybaris has a base magazine size of 10, while Burston has a base magazine size of 45. Again, Latron Prime's base magazine size of 15. Again, Sybaris is clearly a precision rifle, whereas Burston fits more closely to automatic weapons.

 

Therefore, here the the proof that you are making comparisons between two different weapons that shouldn't be compared.

 

Dera and Braton Prime, ignoring the fact Braton Prime could use a buff, is a good example of how Clan-Tech and Prime weapons can be balanced. Again, because I do not believe is making assertions with no solid evidence, let me provide some.

 

 

Your assertion, I might note, is also completely false.

 

Braton Prime vs Dera (Braton on Top, Dera on Bottom)

 

 

Braton Prime outperforms Dera in every single category short of one. If you are interested in seeing the proof, here are links to the builds, which use the exact same mods, oriented against Grineer to favor the Puncture based Dera.

 

http://goo.gl/4SbYJC

http://goo.gl/wD7YEX

 

With regards to Pyrana and AKBronco Prime, I would like to note that Pyrana is a fully automatic shotgun, with stats oriented to Critical and Damage output, 20% base critical chance, whereas AKBronco Prime is oriented towards status builds, near 30% base status chance vs. Pyrana's 10%. A fairer comparison, two shotguns based on damage, Brakk, with a similar orientation as Pyrana (15% Critical and 9.93% Status) grossly outdamages Pyrana. Why is it rightfully so much stronger? Because it is rarer.

 

Again, my assertion isn't that Prime Weapons must always be better than Clan-Tech. My assertion is that they should be justifiably equal at least, and that rarer weapons should indicate strength.

 

Again, until you provide any actual evidence to back up your assertions, they are meaningless. Frankly I am somewhat insulted you are trying to make all these false assertions to twist and derail the discussion.

[MechaTails]

Yeah! I'm shocked and appalled at the falseness being bandied about, yo!

[jjpdn]

Lex Prime is a trophy.

it looks like a classic pistol.

It looks less like something you would stick together from parts from the junkyard (GRINEER, I'M LOOKING AT YOU).

[MechaTails]

Lex Prime looks like a freakin' NERF gun lol

[Beatrix7hearts]

I find all this comparison a bit silly, again if we all go with the mentality that all prime weapons should fare better than others in their category is a bit preposterous. I mean everyone on a session would be running with a boar prime or a latron prime all the time or a paris prime. I think the DE made prime weapons to outdo their counterparts and that's it. The marelok is a great weapon and yes is easier in essence to get for newer players than the lex prime but then again, one sees a lex prime and immediately wants it despite being lower than the marelok. 

 

While i think the prime needs a buff in crits while the marelok stays good with the status proc, that way it is just at the choice of the player, rather than we need to nerf or lower because said weapon performs less than the other. As for the grinlok argument, Its a sniper rifle, its supposed to be slower and more accurate and also more for a slow paced gameplay. The marelok does snipe but it requires you to slow down on its use considerably rather than just go guns blazing with, which is how it feels like rather than a sniper pistol, it just happens to be a good reliable pistol that's all. Also i wanted to add to the prime argument, than if the statement must be true to weapons they should the same to their warframe versions too rather than just adding a polarity extra. 

 

In short Marelok doesn't need a nerf on any of its aspects and the DE should add missions that is not about guns blazing, penalize players that run around in a rescue mission thinking they are wrecking trains. That way the Grinlok, Lanka and other guns gain a better use other than mastery and toss it away. Yes i am all about making the Lex Prime more crit based. 

Edited September 17, 2014 by Beatrix7hearts

[Arunafeltz]

If you model Lex Prime as a crit build performing head shots and marelok going for body shots, Lex Prime will dominate marelok against every faction on paper->shocking result ino >.>.  The only down side is that it requires far more skill and the recoil does prevent achieving listed rate of fire if you want to actually land the head shot. Unless you're beyond godly player who can adjust for the recoil perfectly while tracking the targets head.

Don't forget the coin flips, friend. It's also what is holding the sniper rifles back from being true skill-based weapons. Even after you line up your perfect headshot, you have to cross your toes(fingers busy aiming) and hope that the shot you just fired was a critical so you can score that sweet critical + weak spot damage multiplier that people want to 1-shot Void Heavy Gunners and tanky Eximi with.

[RealPandemonium]

Undoing the Lato nerf would be a really good start. I loved that gun when I started out, but nowadays all it does when I look at it is make me sad :(

Lato was buffed with U14; give it a try.