Poll:should Hysteria Invincibility Be Changed/removed

[Azawarau]

Moved to a more appropriate section.

I was wondering if itd be moved or not after it shifted into a debate

 

valkyr if screwed without invinciblity

Idk about you but Valkyr doesnt need that invi at all for the games intended content and im more than willing to prove it

[Nebrime]

What people don't understand is that Hysteria isn't a full on Invincible/God Mode, you take damage from marked targets after Hysteria ends. Just try tanking a bunch of shots 40 minutes in on Tower IV Survival, you'll drop dead as soon as Hysteria ends. Most people don't know of this because the damage output of lower leveled enemies wont make a difference. 

 

Taking away her temporary invincibility is plain stupid. The ability defines her character and is realistic "Valkyr is imbued with Rage...", you see red, and go berserk. That's what berserk type characters do in video games. 

 

Now of course, I agree Hysteria is crazy over powered, try the combo "Narrow Minded, Continuity, and Constitution." Dark sector Survival will never be the same without her, I mean that's like a minute and a half of taking 0 damage, IF you avoid tanking massive damage from enemies. But that's the strategy you should know when playing her character.

 

tl;dr No, Hysteria is fine.

[Azawarau]

What people don't understand is that Hysteria isn't a full on Invincible/God Mode, you take damage from marked targets after Hysteria ends. Just try tanking a bunch of shots 40 minutes in on Tower IV Survival, you'll drop dead as soon as Hysteria ends. Most people don't know of this because the damage output of lower leveled enemies wont make a difference. 

 

Taking away her temporary invincibility is plain stupid. The ability defines her character and is realistic "Valkyr is imbued with Rage...", you see red, and go berserk. That's what berserk type characters do in video games. 

 

Now of course, I agree Hysteria is crazy over powered, try the combo "Narrow Minded, Continuity, and Constitution." Dark sector Survival will never be the same without her, I mean that's like a minute and a half of taking 0 damage, IF you avoid tanking massive damage from enemies. But that's the strategy you should know when playing her character.

 

tl;dr No, Hysteria is fine.

You might drop dead unless you kill your target or walk 5 meters away from your target

 

5 Meters is 1/4 of the range the Amprex has

 

In other words

 

Not far at all

 

There is very little risk involved with hysteria and there still is no explanation why you have to be entirely immune to damage to be "rage imbued"

Edited September 15, 2014 by Azawarau

[Nebrime]

You might drop dead unless you kill your target or walk 5 meters away from your target

 

5 Meters is 1/4 of the range the Amprex has

 

In other words

 

Not far at all

 

There is very little risk involved with hysteria and there still is no explanation why you have to be entirely immune to damage to be "rage imbued"

 

Well some people like myself mainly use it as a crutch, if I'm at 100 hp and i know I'm a single bullet away from death I'll pop Hysteria, kill and regain my hp. There is also a cast time.

 

This is my build for Valkyr

http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Valkyr/t_30_12001134012_2-2-10-3-10-5-13-6-3-16-8-5-47-3-5-49-7-10-59-1-3-117-0-3-119-5-3-256-4-3_117-4-59-5-2-12-47-11-256-11-119-7-13-7-49-8-16-11-f-f-3-18_/en/1-0-19

 

Think realistically here, without Hysteria, what is the point of Valkyr? You can't just run around spamming Paralysis, that move is basically useless. Maybe, if you use a Dragon Nikana, Dual Zoren/Ichors/Cleavers you can run around spamming warcry. 

 

Removing Hysteria destroys her character, and any character can be made completely indestructible with the correct builds, it just seems like you guys want to complain about something, each and every character can be a wrecking ball... that's just a fact of the game.

[Arabaxus]

It is OP.  You remove the invincibility, replace that, and buff the actually usefulness of hysteria.

 

While we're at it lets make it so Ash can get killed while in Bladestorm animation. Or Hydroid can get killed while in Undertow. 

 

Invincibility durations as part of abilities are nothing exclusive to Valkyr. You could argue that if it were soul-crushingly overpowered to the point it is the go to choice for many roles, even roles not suited for Valkyr, for many players, then yes it would justify a nerf. But as it stands, no Warframe needs a nerf, even the changes to Excalibur and Nyx were pointless. There is a good diversity of frames played currently, with Rhino being a bit on the higher frequency and Hydroid, Zephyr, Saryn and Excalibur being lower, but overall it is at a healthy area.

To players who don't have Life Strike or topped off Steel Fibers or topped off Vitalities, Hysteria's invincibility is likely to be very useful. Stop trying to change things to favor veterans at the cost of newer players.

[Azawarau]

Well some people like myself mainly use it as a crutch, if I'm at 100 hp and i know I'm a single bullet away from death I'll pop Hysteria, kill and regain my hp. There is also a cast time.

 

This is my build for Valkyr

http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Valkyr/t_30_12001134012_2-2-10-3-10-5-13-6-3-16-8-5-47-3-5-49-7-10-59-1-3-117-0-3-119-5-3-256-4-3_117-4-59-5-2-12-47-11-256-11-119-7-13-7-49-8-16-11-f-f-3-18_/en/1-0-19

 

Think realistically here, without Hysteria, what is the point of Valkyr? You can't just run around spamming Paralysis, that move is basically useless. Maybe, if you use a Dragon Nikana, Dual Zoren/Ichors/Cleavers you can run around spamming warcry. 

 

Removing Hysteria destroys her character, and any character can be made completely indestructible with the correct builds, it just seems like you guys want to complain about something, each and every character can be a wrecking ball... that's just a fact of the game.

Valkyr is a melee frame

 

You can use melee on her more efficiently than most other frames because of that

 

And removing the invincibility wouldnt change that fact

 

Itd just make it less of a crutch

 

While we're at it lets make it so Ash can get killed while in Bladestorm animation. Or Hydroid can get killed while in Undertow. 

 

Invincibility durations as part of abilities are nothing exclusive to Valkyr. You could argue that if it were soul-crushingly overpowered to the point it is the go to choice for many roles, even roles not suited for Valkyr, for many players, then yes it would justify a nerf. But as it stands, no Warframe needs a nerf, even the changes to Excalibur and Nyx were pointless. There is a good diversity of frames played currently, with Rhino being a bit on the higher frequency and Hydroid, Zephyr, Saryn and Excalibur being lower, but overall it is at a healthy area.

To players who don't have Life Strike or topped off Steel Fibers or topped off Vitalities, Hysteria's invincibility is likely to be very useful. Stop trying to change things to favor veterans at the cost of newer players.

The invincibility for ash is very short and simply cant be worked around

 

Undertow is probably the only fair god mode there is for the most part

 

Theres literally nothing hydroid can do with it

[Troll_Logic]

 

Hysteria is the only truly invincible skill in the game, and it needs to be balanced.  The skill should be made more useful, but the true invincibility needs to go.

 

Hysteria is balanced.  I have a 5 forma Valkyr and I rarely use hysteria anymore.  If hysteria was so OP, then players with high powered Valkyrs would use it all the time.

 

It isn't OP.  It is a hindrance 90% of the time.

[FarStike]

My opinion to OP's question is No. Leave it as is please.

 

Some will use it, some will leave it out, some will use it in desperation only. The poll shows +- 66% say leave it as is as well.

 

I've found a way to work Valkyrie's powers that synergises with my gameplay and enjoyment just as she is. Using hysteria in higher levels is a significantly slower way to take down mobs. For me her other powers are more useful, but Hysteria has its place exactly as it is.

 

"If it isn't broken, don't try to fix it" This isn't broken.

[FatalJ]

There are already players who use her without invincibility all the time

 

Its the more common end game version of Valkyr

 

Isn't that kind of the problem though? Warframes skill system has close links to the types of skills you see in MOBAs, and just like a MOBA each frames ultimate is supposed to be a Warframes defining ability.

 

For the Valkyr, her ultimate is trash compared to the rest of her kit, so why even bother having it? It takes an invulnerability to damage that lasts 30 seconds to give the thing any worth at all, so that says to me the rest of her kit is too good, and her ultimate is just bad.

 

I still don't get why everyone keeps saying "Leave her as is", personally I'd be a much bigger fan of making Hysteria a far more powerful ability, used to rip through hordes of enemies mercilessly, instead of turning the Valkyr into a damageless tank support who does nothing but stand there absorbing bullets for 30 seconds and resurrecting people.

[Marthrym]

Isn't that kind of the problem though? Warframes skill system has close links to the types of skills you see in MOBAs, and just like a MOBA each frames ultimate is supposed to be a Warframes defining ability.

 

For the Valkyr, her ultimate is trash compared to the rest of her kit, so why even bother having it? It takes an invulnerability to damage that lasts 30 seconds to give the thing any worth at all, so that says to me the rest of her kit is too good, and her ultimate is just bad.

 

I still don't get why everyone keeps saying "Leave her as is", personally I'd be a much bigger fan of making Hysteria a far more powerful ability, used to rip through hordes of enemies mercilessly, instead of turning the Valkyr into a damageless tank support who does nothing but stand there absorbing bullets for 30 seconds and resurrecting people.

That would also be problematic. I mean, we can already achieve far better with a melee build Valkyr. The invulnerability is the ONLY redeeming thing Hysteria has. Which, like you stated, shows that Hysteria is kinda... bad, I guess? For me it has become mainly a "revive ally safely/OH SH!t" button, which, strangely enough, actually works! Balancing Hysteria to be another "melee build" would be redundant, wouldn't it?^^'

 

It would actually make Hysteria lose it's only good (or bad, depending on who you ask, as always^^) element, and become... nothing. Considering the melee + Warcry build can be extremely good, and borderline Godlike with "skilled" players (translation : players who messed up enough times to know what to do and what not to^^), turning Hysteria into a "Press 4 to do EXACTLY the same thing you were doing BEFORE pressing 4" ability seems kinda... dumb, don't you think?^^'

 

What I mean is, I don't want a melee build-like ability that looks even more like it than it does already, that would be pointless, a waste of time and effort on the part of the devs (shame, the animations are really cool...). Hysteria is in a very awkward, difficult to "balance" place right now, I agree, but removing the invulnerability in exchange for just the ability to do the same thing we can already do WITHOUT Hysteria doesn't seem very appealing to me.^^'

 

Plus there are other frames in dire need of a rework. I think Valkyr's Hysteria shouldn't be a priority, especially since it "works" as it should (it does, right?), unlike several other abilities.^^'

 

That's just my opinion of course. Please don't hate me.^^'

Edited September 15, 2014 by Marthrym

[Ailith]

Against low/mid level enemies, Hysteria's purpose is to kill things. Against high-level enemies, it loses most/all of its kill potential and is mainly for drawing aggro and reviving teammates (ie: very basic utility). Hysteria is far less useful to the team than a Rhino Stomp, Nyx Chaos, Nova Molecular Prime, etc. Therefore, I feel no change is needed.

 

The only changes that I would like to see an the option to cancel it early by pressing 4 again and it'd be nice if her Paralyze finisher didn't permanently glitch into the Fist finisher after using Hysteria (I assume that's tied to Hysteria).

 

 

I think that the only way damage reduction could work is if Valkyr gains a pretty high amount of health regen on top of it, thus making her a true raging berserker: capable of being killed, but very difficult to kill. Of course, with the amount of damage that enemies can dish out at higher levels, the health regen will become irrelevant at some point and she'll just die in a few hits. Such is the way of this game though, enemies and crowd control are the only things that scale infinitely.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Ailith

[Perserve]

heck no

[Just4Games]

You forgot to put Stay in that poll. CHEATERRRR!!!

[RiouHotaru]

Hysteria's damage doesn't keep up with high-tier enemies, and building specifically to keep Hysteria going as long as possible requires that you specialize quite intensely (I think the longest you can do is 70 seconds), but even then, either you need Rage to build energy, or energy restores en masse to sustain "Perma-Hysteria".

 

Well, or you need a Trinity, but Trinity sort of negates the need for Perma-Hysteria in the first place.

[Boatsniper]

The only hate I see is towards the OP.

 

Hysteria is still completely broken. The recent rework did little to remedy its functional deficiencies, and made them worse in some respects.

 

Try doing an aerial slam twice in a row. The second slam plays some sort of useless flipping animation that has a broken hit box.

 

Try doing a combo. You can't turn, can't quickly halt it, you sink into inclined ramps, and you defy gravity.

 

Try parying a melee attack. You can't.

 

Try reflecting damage. You can't.

 

Try parying after using Hysteria. You play a hand-to-hand execute animation, regardless of your currently equipped melee weapon.

 

Try hitting flying enemies. You can't without coptering.

 

Regarding the ability's invincibility, it should be changed so that if any enemy who has dealt damage to Valkyr is alive after Hysteria ends, that damage is felt all at once after the ability's completion.

[Azawarau]

Hysteria is balanced.  I have a 5 forma Valkyr and I rarely use hysteria anymore.  If hysteria was so OP, then players with high powered Valkyrs would use it all the time.

 

It isn't OP.  It is a hindrance 90% of the time.

Its an underpowered 4 with an overpowered feature

 

It should be better

 

1 is purely utility and 3 is almost entirely utility unless you build specifically for it and even then its not that useful aside from getting a finisher out or avoiding stun/QT stun (rolling works better for QT stun)

 

Change it for the better

 

My opinion to OP's question is No. Leave it as is please.

 

Some will use it, some will leave it out, some will use it in desperation only. The poll shows +- 66% say leave it as is as well.

 

I've found a way to work Valkyrie's powers that synergises with my gameplay and enjoyment just as she is. Using hysteria in higher levels is a significantly slower way to take down mobs. For me her other powers are more useful, but Hysteria has its place exactly as it is.

 

"If it isn't broken, don't try to fix it" This isn't broken.

Her only really useful combat ability is Warcry

 

Though Paralysis is very nice too depending on your setup

 

Of all of the 4s Valkyrs is quite possibly the worst and its crutch is its only saving feature

 

Isn't that kind of the problem though? Warframes skill system has close links to the types of skills you see in MOBAs, and just like a MOBA each frames ultimate is supposed to be a Warframes defining ability.

 

For the Valkyr, her ultimate is trash compared to the rest of her kit, so why even bother having it? It takes an invulnerability to damage that lasts 30 seconds to give the thing any worth at all, so that says to me the rest of her kit is too good, and her ultimate is just bad.

 

I still don't get why everyone keeps saying "Leave her as is", personally I'd be a much bigger fan of making Hysteria a far more powerful ability, used to rip through hordes of enemies mercilessly, instead of turning the Valkyr into a damageless tank support who does nothing but stand there absorbing bullets for 30 seconds and resurrecting people.

Its just nowhere near good enough

 

Valkyrs hysteria has so much more potential than what it is now

 

That would also be problematic. I mean, we can already achieve far better with a melee build Valkyr. The invulnerability is the ONLY redeeming thing Hysteria has. Which, like you stated, shows that Hysteria is kinda... bad, I guess? For me it has become mainly a "revive ally safely/OH SH!t" button, which, strangely enough, actually works! Balancing Hysteria to be another "melee build" would be redundant, wouldn't it?^^'

 

It would actually make Hysteria lose it's only good (or bad, depending on who you ask, as always^^) element, and become... nothing. Considering the melee + Warcry build can be extremely good, and borderline Godlike with "skilled" players (translation : players who messed up enough times to know what to do and what not to^^), turning Hysteria into a "Press 4 to do EXACTLY the same thing you were doing BEFORE pressing 4" ability seems kinda... dumb, don't you think?^^'

 

What I mean is, I don't want a melee build-like ability that looks even more like it than it does already, that would be pointless, a waste of time and effort on the part of the devs (shame, the animations are really cool...). Hysteria is in a very awkward, difficult to "balance" place right now, I agree, but removing the invulnerability in exchange for just the ability to do the same thing we can already do WITHOUT Hysteria doesn't seem very appealing to me.^^'

 

Plus there are other frames in dire need of a rework. I think Valkyr's Hysteria shouldn't be a priority, especially since it "works" as it should (it does, right?), unlike several other abilities.^^'

 

That's just my opinion of course. Please don't hate me.^^'

Alot of abilities are press to do what youd do otherwise

 

Hysteria is almost exactly the same except you become more limited in options and usefulness

 

Even people against changing hysteria agree that its bad and its onloy good feature is Invincibility

 

Why not change it to something better than isnt such a ridiculous safety button

 

Something that real Valkyr mains would actually want to use

 

Against low/mid level enemies, Hysteria's purpose is to kill things. Against high-level enemies, it loses most/all of its kill potential and is mainly for drawing aggro and reviving teammates (ie: very basic utility). Hysteria is far less useful to the team than a Rhino Stomp, Nyx Chaos, Nova Molecular Prime, etc. Therefore, I feel no change is needed.

 

The only changes that I would like to see an the option to cancel it early by pressing 4 again and it'd be nice if her Paralyze finisher didn't permanently glitch into the Fist finisher after using Hysteria (I assume that's tied to Hysteria).

 

 

I think that the only way damage reduction could work is if Valkyr gains a pretty high amount of health regen on top of it, thus making her a true raging berserker: capable of being killed, but very difficult to kill. Of course, with the amount of damage that enemies can dish out at higher levels, the health regen will become irrelevant at some point and she'll just die in a few hits. Such is the way of this game though, enemies and crowd control are the only things that scale infinitely.

Again

 

>Not too useful

 

>Doesnt need to change

 

Where is the sense in this

 

You forgot to put Stay in that poll. CHEATERRRR!!!

?

[KawaiirawrxDkys]

#lolnope  

 

5$ says its wont happen 

[SgtFlex]

Personally, I think it needs to be changed, seems like invincibility in general is just a bad idea. It was horrible with Trinity, and even with Valkyr it's just as bad with those long-@$$ duration builds.

 

For the sake of trying to prevent flame wars, that's just how I see it, and I probably need to use her as well. So far I've only seen my friend use Valkyr, and he usually uses it whenever one of us goes down, then just revives us.

 

I think it would be cool if Hysteria only activated when your combo counter reached a certain number from melee attacks, meaning that you can't activate it just to save your/teammates life and only lasts so long. After Hysteria wares off, your combo counter is reset and you have to melee enemies repeatedly to activate hysteria once again. However, I doubt such a mechanic would be approved by the community, or DE would even bother implementing, and im still not fully convinced myself if my own idea is a good or a bad one.

Edited September 16, 2014 by SgtFlex

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

#lolnope  

 

5$ says its wont happen 

I hope you didn't need that $5 for something important, lol.

[KawaiirawrxDkys]

I hope you didn't need that $5 for something important, lol.

its not like i neeeed it but i dont see how im going to lose it :P

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Well some people like myself mainly use it as a crutch, if I'm at 100 hp and i know I'm a single bullet away from death I'll pop Hysteria, kill and regain my hp. There is also a cast time.

 

This is my build for Valkyr

http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Valkyr/t_30_12001134012_2-2-10-3-10-5-13-6-3-16-8-5-47-3-5-49-7-10-59-1-3-117-0-3-119-5-3-256-4-3_117-4-59-5-2-12-47-11-256-11-119-7-13-7-49-8-16-11-f-f-3-18_/en/1-0-19

 

Think realistically here, without Hysteria, what is the point of Valkyr? You can't just run around spamming Paralysis, that move is basically useless. Maybe, if you use a Dragon Nikana, Dual Zoren/Ichors/Cleavers you can run around spamming warcry. 

 

Removing Hysteria destroys her character, and any character can be made completely indestructible with the correct builds, it just seems like you guys want to complain about something, each and every character can be a wrecking ball... that's just a fact of the game.

Paralysis vs. Infested: http://youtu.be/qOF46MZQjTo (Video was trying to show staggered Ancients do not prompt Finisher attacks and just yield 400%melee multiplier in researching this finisher: http://youtu.be/4yO1qBHasVo)

I main Valkyr:

-Hours Played http://t.co/ajOrBxdp5l

-Forma Variety Valkyrs http://t.co/m5PIlOpNKL

-Bastet 3 forma http://t.co/KXgvH6dtiQ ; http://t.co/PZya3zL75H

-Kara 6forma(reforma'd Aura on accident was 1st forma ever used, so really only 5forma) http://t.co/miQ2AVat10

-Valkyr's kills (on PS4 only tracks kills from Ripline and Paralysis; Melee kills in Hysteria do not register as Valkyr stat kills) http://t.co/ETvFGwoRgM

-Most used stats http://t.co/WTwCHTsnDu

Obex- http://t.co/pP7dCUBZEv ; http://t.co/6ptBe8Sufm ; http://t.co/xRnmOA5cxJ

Paralysis can be spammed pretty regularly for decent damage if using Sentinel Guardian mod or Raksa Protect: Also Helios with Deconstructor and any Kubrow can utilize the 400% melee modifier from Paralysis (I am assuming when they are 1-shotting level 70 enemies it is because of the melee buff)

(Deconstructor vs Sweeper stats http://t.co/uqorubej4J) (Viral +Heat (Heat is adding more than 90% currently on PS4) Deconstructor http://t.co/KXXRIrcirw

I use Paralysis very Often. WarCry I use for Run&Gun Mobile Defense and Defense missions. Ripline and Hysteria get use when I play Bastet Valkyr for some 'Nostalgia'

Hysteria to me lost viability when melee 2.0 came and Life Strike melee made more use of a Steel Fiber build with Rage Vitality and/or Quick Thinking. The animation changes were a nice touch, but Hysteria feels like it ignores Valkyr's other attributes: No need for her High base armor if in Hysteria with invincibility - also just turns WarCry into a high power cost Hysteria attack speed buff.

(WarCry would be better CC if it was an emanating slow Aura/Armor buff the short duration it lasts compared to Hysteria's)

Hysteria's attack combos deplete stamina rapidly and thus make it more difficult to sprint rush fleeing enemies.

(If it was Damage Reduction and allowed you to use Rage, you could cast powers more frequently...cough more WarCry)

I like Valkyr's uniqueness: Ripline is unique; Hysteria is very Unique, and Paralysis -well it weaponizes your personal shield repurposing Redirection as a damage mod, unique.(WarCry is more of M-Prime slow + Volt melee attack speed boost with Armor buff... Armor buff was Unique until Oberon rework)

[MajorUrsine]

seems as if the people who vote to take it away haven't played 40 mins in T4...

 

but i would like some increased risk (without removing invulnerability, this is seriously necessary at high levels) in exchange for better performance of hysteria, perhaps you looses a set amount of health per second and you have to regenerate it, while hysteria also improved.

 

i just want this skill to be more usable

[Hueminator]

Er changed invincibility to 99% reduction, so you still get kd stagger etc.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

seems as if the people who vote to take it away haven't played 40 mins in T4...

 

but i would like some increased risk (without removing invulnerability, this is seriously necessary at high levels) in exchange for better performance of hysteria, perhaps you looses a set amount of health per second and you have to regenerate it, while hysteria also improved.

 

i just want this skill to be more usable

Before OP: shakes his head

Valkyrs Unrivaled Tanking: http://youtu.be/2Lm_jr4fkGY

[Ailith]

Before OP: shakes his head

Valkyrs Unrivaled Tanking: http://youtu.be/2Lm_jr4fkGY

"Unrivaled tanking" against enemies who, 90% of the time, are affected by Loki's Radial Disarm and can't actually shoot Valkyr (they're also affected by Nyx's Chaos, so there's a high chance that she won't even be attacked). But, if it weren't for Quick Thinking, she would've instantly died the few times that she did get shot (she went from 860 hp down to about 20 from one bullet).

 

Really, that video and this comment serve no purpose other than to evaluate how a Valkyr performs in a long survival mission when paired with crowd control frames.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Ailith