Poll:should Hysteria Invincibility Be Changed/removed

[Azawarau]

Before OP: shakes his head

Valkyrs Unrivaled Tanking: http://youtu.be/2Lm_jr4fkGY

Am i famous???

 

"Unrivaled tanking" against enemies who, 90% of the time, are affected by Loki's Radial Disarm and can't actually shoot Valkyr (they're also affected by Nyx's Chaos, so there's a high chance that she won't even be attacked). But, if it weren't for Quick Thinking, she would've instantly died the few times that she did get shot (she went from 860 hp down to about 20 from one bullet).

 

Really, that video and this comment serve no purpose other than to evaluate how a Valkyr performs in a long survival mission when paired with crowd control frames.

I have more without loki

 

Wanna see?

 

Lvl 100 enemies still

 

Need to make a new video since the changes to QT but work has me busy :x

 

And you cant downtalk my build for using QT

 

Its a huge addition to her healthbar

 

Especially after armor and Warcry and you can use that build without a single forma

Edited September 16, 2014 by Azawarau

[(PSN)MrNishi]

"Unrivaled tanking" against enemies who, 90% of the time, are affected by Loki's Radial Disarm and can't actually shoot Valkyr (they're also affected by Nyx's Chaos, so there's a high chance that she won't even be attacked). But, if it weren't for Quick Thinking, she would've instantly died the few times that she did get shot (she went from 860 hp down to about 20 from one bullet).

Really, that video and this comment serve no purpose other than to evaluate how a Valkyr performs in a long survival mission when paired with crowd control frames.

Video was OP's and granted it was older - Nyx Absorb is not as useful as in that video on PC and Quick thinking was changed.

I'm on PS4 and can run T4 Survival 45+mins without Hysteria. I will get around to doing a Survival upload from PS4.

As for my comment: I think it was 'spot-on' given the 'Op' -Azawaru's response.

If he gets around to posting a non-Hysteria level 100 Valkyr Armor Tanking video.

Valkyr has high survivability with & without Hysteria. Ranged Damage and objective defense are greatly hindered when in Hysteria and Hysteria mocks Valkyr's Armor attribute by making it useless with just pure Invincibility.

Some still argue that Hysteria Damage is too weak, but I do not agree. A Hysteria Damage build is more than viable but not needed. (Max Blind Rage, Max Intensify, Steel Charge, Pressure Point, Spoiled Strike, Oragn Shatter, True Steel with Dual Cleavers or Dual Ichors (35.1 vs. 35 base damage with same max Crit viability) and Hysteria does more than enough damage - even with the hard to steer combos)

As other posts have tried to convey: Hysteria seems like the Valkyr go to when you don't have the mods to build around her high Armor. (I think damage reduction on top of her Armor is a better route than just Invincibility)

I don't think many players see Valkyr's shields as Survivability stat. (Paralysis uses that stat as a damage modifier.) Hysteria's current form doesn't need survivability mods to be viable as when in Hysteria Rage does nothing, Quick Thinking does nothing, Vitality does nothing, Steel Fiber does nothing, along with a slew of Damage Restinace mods (Ice/Fire/knockdown/etc....) Vigor and Redirection while in Hysteria only contribute for Paralysis Damage and it appears the players that use Hysteria say Paralysis is useless, so no synergy. - A player willing to use Energy Restores for Hysteria activation can have an Aura equipped Unranked Valkyr with just Hysteria slotted and have high level Enemy survivability (or Nightmare mode survivability) - how is that not broken. Literally if a Valkyr is just looking to stay alive they need power for Hysteria and know when to use flee towards cover for reactivation. They can build around Hysteria's high stamina cost by slotting movement and utility mods and buff damage with some power strength, and build for Hysteria duration. But again a Perma-Hysyeria build needs no durability mods aside from the off chance of being dispelled. (Pit Fall/tileset transition like Grineer transition Pod/Harvester/Stalker)

Edited September 16, 2014 by (PS4)MrNishi

[(PSN)Hideous_Fox]

No!!!! If it was taken she'd be too SAWFT!!!!

[(PSN)Hideous_Fox]

I also Vote Blessing be restored to it's former Glory however be given a duration cap of 15 seconds

[Marthrym]

Its an underpowered 4 with an overpowered feature

 

Unfortunate, yes. But kinda rendered necessary by Valkyr's current situation, IMHO. And Warframe's situation (scaling... *sigh*). I think you can't fix one without fixing the other first, but again, that's just my opinion, and it would be drifting to another subject.^^'

 

 

 

Alot of abilities are press to do what youd do otherwise

 

I wouldn't go that far... Her melee build is a much more powerful Hysteria, just without the invulnerability and limitations. Not to mention it's her ultimate we're talking about, not any ability. And I don't see many "ultimate abilities" where you can do the same thing except better, even though there might be exceptions. You can't stomp unless you use Stomp. You can't instantly heal the entire team unless you use Blessing. You can't disrupt any ranged weapon of every enemy around you unless you use Radial Disarm. I don't think I need to mention every 4 of every frame to make my point any further, do I?^^'

 

Hysteria's mechanics are based on melee combat. So it's hard to revamp it and make it appealing considering the melee build+Warcry combo is already a great substitute. Reworking Hysteria is very difficult because of that in my opinion. Doable, but very difficult.^^'

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Unfortunate, yes. But kinda rendered necessary by Valkyr's current situation, IMHO. And Warframe's situation (scaling... *sigh*). I think you can't fix one without fixing the other first, but again, that's just my opinion, and it would be drifting to another subject.^^'

I wouldn't go that far... Her melee build is a much more powerful Hysteria, just without the invulnerability and limitations. Not to mention it's her ultimate we're talking about, not any ability. And I don't see many "ultimate abilities" where you can do the same thing except better, even though there might be exceptions. You can't stomp unless you use Stomp. You can't instantly heal the entire team unless you use Blessing. You can't disrupt any ranged weapon of every enemy around you unless you use Radial Disarm. I don't think I need to mention every 4 of every frame to make my point any further, do I?^^'

Hysteria's mechanics are based on melee combat. So it's hard to revamp it and make it appealing considering the melee build+Warcry combo is already a great substitute. Reworking Hysteria is very difficult because of that in my opinion. Doable, but very difficult.^^'

Totally agree with that last part. Pre-melee 2.0 Hysteria life-steal was unique. Now even after the new animations Hysteria has become kind of redundant, besides the invincibility and invulnerability to status/knockdown/CC. Hysteria needs a damage rework so that it is in no way overshadowed by normal melee. As for the spin-attack and the slide...I would like to see the Sonic Flip extend the distance when sliding rather than the normal baseball slide and make Hysteria's spin attack copter friendly (it hits more times than a normal fist slide attack, just allow it to copter for mobility)

For Damage I think just giving Hysteria a base 100% Crit chance would be fine. That would mean any weapon would allow a red crit- though Crit based weapons would bring Crit chance to 140%. (Even a weapon with 2.5% Crit chance would have 102.5% Crit chance in Hysteria)

Now repurposing the block/parry to allow for a ranged attack (Throwing the top plate of the corpus binding or shooting her energy claws) and allowing Channeling to explode the thrown weapon would make Hysteria Melee better than normal melee. Like having a Glaive but still being able yo melee combo while doing ranged attack.(Hysteria of course would be affected by Ranged mods) (Ranged explode could be a unique Slash explosion) (Damage from Explosion would still contribute to life steal)(Allows Hysteria to hit weak spots) (Range could be 5m/10m/15m/20m for corresponding Rank)

I still believe Hysteria should lose invincibility in favor of Damage Reduction, while retaining status/CC invulnerability and remove some hindrance of being in Hysteria. Life steal can remain at 5% given the damage increase from Red Crits and ability to do ranged and weak-point attacks.

I think Hysteria should be unrivaled melee without invincibility. (Near invincibility is fine because you eventually hit a damage cap, but pure invincibility has no damage cap) Red Crits would solve damage in comparison to not having status effects of normal melee and increased health regen with invincibility removed.

Or if the Ranged attack is too difficult to implement- While in Husyeria : Ripline and Paralysis are 100% Crit (using same Power strength multiplier to a max of around 4x or 400%) and Hysteria allows Block/Parry (reflection damage being scaled by Rank and Power strength, reflection mod and reflex guard mod) (Technically Ripline allows you to hit weak points and Paralysis can be a melee range AoE)(Hysteria channels all incoming damage to be applied to Health - thus shields are only drained by Paralysis while in Hysteria)

- Even though Invincibility is removed Hysteria still retains the full non-damage absorption damage of highlighted enemies as punishment for not killing them...or choosing wisely when reviving a fallen teammate.)

Edited September 16, 2014 by (PS4)MrNishi

[Azawarau]

Unfortunate, yes. But kinda rendered necessary by Valkyr's current situation, IMHO. And Warframe's situation (scaling... *sigh*). I think you can't fix one without fixing the other first, but again, that's just my opinion, and it would be drifting to another subject.^^'

 

 

I wouldn't go that far... Her melee build is a much more powerful Hysteria, just without the invulnerability and limitations. Not to mention it's her ultimate we're talking about, not any ability. And I don't see many "ultimate abilities" where you can do the same thing except better, even though there might be exceptions. You can't stomp unless you use Stomp. You can't instantly heal the entire team unless you use Blessing. You can't disrupt any ranged weapon of every enemy around you unless you use Radial Disarm. I don't think I need to mention every 4 of every frame to make my point any further, do I?^^'

 

Hysteria's mechanics are based on melee combat. So it's hard to revamp it and make it appealing considering the melee build+Warcry combo is already a great substitute. Reworking Hysteria is very difficult because of that in my opinion. Doable, but very difficult.^^'

WoF

 

M prime

 

Tornado

 

Tentacle Hentai strike (I dont care, thats what it is)

 

Iron skin

 

Hall of mirrors for the most part

 

Eclipse

 

Roar

 

Blessing

 

Tornado

 

For the most part you hit the button and go about your day the same

 

Hysteria can be changed for the better if it works as a self buff rather than a debuff

[(PSN)KestralSylver]

In favor of 99% damage reduction and another boost to armor, sure. Outside of that, NO!

[Marthrym]

WoF

 

M prime

 

Tornado

 

Tentacle Hentai strike (I dont care, thats what it is)

 

Iron skin

 

Hall of mirrors for the most part

 

Eclipse

 

Roar

 

Blessing

 

Tornado

 

For the most part you hit the button and go about your day the same

 

Hysteria can be changed for the better if it works as a self buff rather than a debuff

I think you don't understand... Or refuse to understand?^^'

 

You can use melee to regen and do big damage. What Hysteria should do for Valkyr, ANY frame can do WITHOUT, and better for several. Valkyr is the best because she also happens to possess the highest armor and Warcry to buff it even more, which allows her melee build to go farther then any other frame.

 

Which means Hysteria is a nightmare for the devs (I feel for you guys^^') to tweak/revamp/whatever.

 

WoF : Unless you use the ability, you can't have anything that looks like it/ does anything similar to it. Pillars of flames coming from below. Nah, can't think of any weapon that can do that...

Molecular Prime? same.

Tornado? Same.

Tentacle Hentai strike (spot on with the name btw^^)? Same.

 

Should I continue or do you understand what I mean now? That's why Hysteria hasn't been tweaked yet. Because it is a freaking NIGHTMARE. If the devs ever manage to pull this one off, they're my heroes, seriously. And despite all my flaming, I think the game they created is unique, which is already one Hek of a feat!

 

P.S : The animations are awesome though. Hedgehog ball FTW!^^

Edited September 16, 2014 by Marthrym

[Azawarau]

I think you don't understand... Or refuse to understand?^^'

 

You can use melee to regen and do big damage. What Hysteria should do for Valkyr, ANY frame can do WITHOUT, and better for several. Valkyr is the best because she also happens to possess the highest armor and Warcry to buff it even more, which allows her melee build to go farther then any other frame.

 

Which means Hysteria is a nightmare for the devs (I feel for you guys^^') to tweak/revamp/whatever.

 

WoF : Unless you use the ability, you can't have anything that looks like it/ does anything similar to it. Pillars of flames coming from below. Nah, can't think of any weapon that can do that...

Molecular Prime? same.

Tornado? Same.

Tentacle Hentai strike (spot on with the name btw^^)? Same.

 

Should I continue or do you understand what I mean now? That's why Hysteria hasn't been tweaked yet. Because it is a freaking NIGHTMARE. If the devs ever manage to pull this one off, they're my heroes, seriously. And despite all my flaming, I think the game they created is unique, which is already one Hek of a feat!

 

P.S : The animations are awesome though. Hedgehog ball FTW!^^

You misunderstood my posts if you think thats what i was getting at

 

Abilities you use and go do the same thing are all around

 

Warcry is that way for Valkyr

 

Hysteria is a bit different since you pretty much throw out everything because you cant die anyways

 

Again, having a second self buff would be nicer than having a get out of jail free debuff

 

And just to make everyone mad....

 

I hate the hedgehog thing

 

Edited September 16, 2014 by Azawarau

[Marthrym]

Totally agree with that last part. Pre-melee 2.0 Hysteria life-steal was unique. Now even after the new animations Hysteria has become kind of redundant, besides the invincibility and invulnerability to status/knockdown/CC. Hysteria needs a damage rework so that it is in no way overshadowed by normal melee. As for the spin-attack and the slide...I would like to see the Sonic Flip extend the distance when sliding rather than the normal baseball slide and make Hysteria's spin attack copter friendly (it hits more times than a normal fist slide attack, just allow it to copter for mobility)

For Damage I think just giving Hysteria a base 100% Crit chance would be fine. That would mean any weapon would allow a red crit- though Crit based weapons would bring Crit chance to 140%. (Even a weapon with 2.5% Crit chance would have 102.5% Crit chance in Hysteria)

Now repurposing the block/parry to allow for a ranged attack (Throwing the top plate of the corpus binding or shooting her energy claws) and allowing Channeling to explode the thrown weapon would make Hysteria Melee better than normal melee. Like having a Glaive but still being able yo melee combo while doing ranged attack.(Hysteria of course would be affected by Ranged mods) (Ranged explode could be a unique Slash explosion) (Damage from Explosion would still contribute to life steal)(Allows Hysteria to hit weak spots) (Range could be 5m/10m/15m/20m for corresponding Rank)

I still believe Hysteria should lose invincibility in favor of Damage Reduction, while retaining status/CC invulnerability and remove some hindrance of being in Hysteria. Life steal can remain at 5% given the damage increase from Red Crits and ability to do ranged and weak-point attacks.

I think Hysteria should be unrivaled melee without invincibility. (Near invincibility is fine because you eventually hit a damage cap, but pure invincibility has no damage cap) Red Crits would solve damage in comparison to not having status effects of normal melee and increased health regen with invincibility removed.

Or if the Ranged attack is too difficult to implement- While in Husyeria : Ripline and Paralysis are 100% Crit (using same Power strength multiplier to a max of around 4x or 400%) and Hysteria allows Block/Parry (reflection damage being scaled by Rank and Power strength, reflection mod and reflex guard mod) (Technically Ripline allows you to hit weak points and Paralysis can be a melee range AoE)(Hysteria channels all incoming damage to be applied to Health - thus shields are only drained by Paralysis while in Hysteria)

- Even though Invincibility is removed Hysteria still retains the full non-damage absorption damage of highlighted enemies as punishment for not killing them...or choosing wisely when reviving a fallen teammate.)

Very interesting.^^

Though I don't trust DR... Or should I say : I don't trust scaling. I know it only becomes a problem in endless missions, but the current scaling is bonkers. I think that's the reason why Warframe is so difficult to balance : the gap between "normal" and "endless" content makes it impossible to have abilities or weapons that fit both. Some weapons seem to be designed for endless missions, which makes them overpowered when used in the regular missions (eg : the (in)famous Boltor Prime...), while others are great for them, but fall hard when used with endless scaling.

[Marthrym]

You misunderstood my posts if you think thats what i was getting at

 

Abilities you use and go do the same thing are all around

 

Warcry is that way for Valkyr

 

Hysteria is a bit different since you pretty much throw out everything because you cant die anyways

 

Again, having a second self buff would be nicer than having a get out of jail free debuff

 

And just to make everyone mad....

 

I hate the hedgehog thing

 

Except YOU quoted me first...^^'

So in the end, YOU didn't understand MY point. So of course I couldn't understand YOURS. Miscommunication it is then... This happens way too often...

 

And it's perfectly okay to hate the Hedgehog thing.^^

 

Oh and I forgot!

 

Am i famous???

Yes. Yes you are.^^

[Azawarau]

Very interesting.^^

Though I don't trust DR... Or should I say : I don't trust scaling. I know it only becomes a problem in endless missions, but the current scaling is bonkers. I think that's the reason why Warframe is so difficult to balance : the gap between "normal" and "endless" content makes it impossible to have abilities or weapons that fit both. Some weapons seem to be designed for endless missions, which makes them overpowered when used in the regular missions (eg : the (in)famous Boltor Prime...), while others are great for them, but fall hard when used with endless scaling.

Currently Valkyr scales perfectly within the games intended level range

 

An extra layer of armor would let her go a bit farther or if not armor then utility

 

At least everyone agrees that as it is now its nothing but a revival tool and thats just not ok

 

When does a berserker become revive tool

 

Might as well be like nekros the necromancer

 

Outstanding in his field ironically

 

Except YOU quoted me first...^^'

So in the end, YOU didn't understand MY point. So of course I couldn't understand YOURS. Miscommunication it is then... This happens way too often...

 

And it's perfectly okay to hate the Hedgehog thing.^^

 

Oh and I forgot!

 

Yes. Yes you are.^^

Late reply to infamy

 

My point was that many frames use abilities and keep doing the same just as hysteria and warcry would be

 

The best examples are mirage and rhino who double buff and go run and gun

 

Valkyr stand as a melee version fo this except using one of her abilities limits the other

 

Im going to make it clear in my posts that theres nothing wrong with turning Hysteria into a second layer of armor that she can use any weapon with VS claws

 

Its just not useful enough as is

Edited September 16, 2014 by Azawarau

[Juebev]

I usually just lurk the forums when I get the chance, but I've been hearing  alot about this "Nerf fad".

You guys who are so adament about "nerfs" should instead be talking about how to buff frames and scaling issues instead of making things worse.

 

Its not like the game already has more notitcable issues, like end-game, lack of content and endless grind - Nah lets talk about how to nerf frames and cause sh*tstorms on the forums.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I usually just lurk the forums when I get the chance, but I've been hearing  alot about this "Nerf fad".

You guys who are so adament about "nerfs" should instead be talking about how to buff frames and scaling issues instead of making things worse.

 

Its not like the game already has more notitcable issues, like end-game, lack of content and endless grind - Nah lets talk about how to nerf frames and cause sh*tstorms on the forums.

 

The game needs buffs AND nerfs.

[Azawarau]

I usually just lurk the forums when I get the chance, but I've been hearing  alot about this "Nerf fad".

You guys who are so adament about "nerfs" should instead be talking about how to buff frames and scaling issues instead of making things worse.

 

Its not like the game already has more notitcable issues, like end-game, lack of content and endless grind - Nah lets talk about how to nerf frames and cause sh*tstorms on the forums.

Buff everything to trinity godmode level?

 

Do you even balance?

 

The game needs buffs AND nerfs.

SHHH

 

Never speak of the R word here

 

Theyll come if you do...

[Juebev]

Buff everything to trinity godmode level?

Do you even balance?

 

 

I must be missing something here, I don't remeber writing this in my previous post. I don't even remeber writing the word "trinity" in my last post ethier. Though buffing everything to "god mode" is not my idea of balance - I'm guessing you don't have any idea what the term means for you to even say something like that or you are just being whiny because someone disagrees with you.

 

I'm going with the latter. =)

 

And while you are furiously typing a response, I suggest next time to read carefully my posts and not make stuff up.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Juebev

[Archwizard]

I've always believed that if there was a huge issue with Hysteria, they could change it from "invulnerability to damage" to just "inability to die".

 

Say she stops taking damage at 1 HP. Still capable of unstoppable rage, but the damage they take still matters and the player has to be aware of where they will be when the rage ends.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I've always believed that if there was a huge issue with Hysteria, they could change it from "invulnerability to damage" to just "inability to die".

 

Say she stops taking damage at 1 HP. Still capable of unstoppable rage, but the damage they take still matters and the player has to be aware of where they will be when the rage ends.

That's a decent enough change. Better than the current state anyway.

[Azawarau]

I must be missing something here, I don't remeber writing this in my previous post. I don't even remeber writing the word "trinity" in my last post ethier. Though buffing everything to "god mode" is not my idea of balance - I'm guessing you don't have any idea what the term means for you to even say something like that or you are just being whiny because someone disagrees with you.

 

I'm going with the latter. =)

 

And while you are furiously typing a response, I suggest next time to read carefully my posts and not make stuff up.

Youre the one who mentioned the nerf "fad"

 

Theres a reason why things get nerfed to match others rather than having things buffed up to their level

 

Trinity is the biggest example of it

 

I've always believed that if there was a huge issue with Hysteria, they could change it from "invulnerability to damage" to just "inability to die".

 

Say she stops taking damage at 1 HP. Still capable of unstoppable rage, but the damage they take still matters and the player has to be aware of where they will be when the rage ends.

QT

 

Same story for the most part

 

The problem wont be solved

 

EDIT

 

This joke is amazing BTW

 

 

Might as well be like nekros the necromancer

 

Outstanding in his field ironically

 

I just cant let it go unnoticed...

Edited September 17, 2014 by Azawarau

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Very interesting.^^

Though I don't trust DR... Or should I say : I don't trust scaling. I know it only becomes a problem in endless missions, but the current scaling is bonkers. I think that's the reason why Warframe is so difficult to balance : the gap between "normal" and "endless" content makes it impossible to have abilities or weapons that fit both. Some weapons seem to be designed for endless missions, which makes them overpowered when used in the regular missions (eg : the (in)famous Boltor Prime...), while others are great for them, but fall hard when used with endless scaling.

I could see how they might mess up DR, but I cannot see it being worse the two options we have now: Straight Invincibility and great survivability (High Armor + Large Health pool enhanced with Quick thinking, Flow, WarCru, LifeStrike) At the very least DR combined with high Armor would have a 'mod gate'

But I do strongly feel that the 100% Melee Crits and allowing both Ripline and Paralysis to crit would fit her description of being 'adept at killing' when in Hysteria (Or heck even out of Hysteria)

[Inmemoratus]

Its the ame as the trinity and rhino invicible iron skin and frost and nyx shields

 

They all had to go

 

Hysteria is the last straw and on the border of needing to go

 

It's the same as being able to defend allies/cryo with Frost/Nyx shields?

 

And Rhino has a massive range AoE stun.

 

Valkyr doesn't provide much team utility in comparison to most frames. Her niche is personal survival.

 

It's actually worse than Loki's invisibility. He can use any attacks he wants during it and nothing will attack him.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

He can use any attacks he wants during it and nothing will attack him.

Haven't played the game recently, huh?

[Azawarau]

It's the same as being able to defend allies/cryo with Frost/Nyx shields?

 

And Rhino has a massive range AoE stun.

 

Valkyr doesn't provide much team utility in comparison to most frames. Her niche is personal survival.

 

It's actually worse than Loki's invisibility. He can use any attacks he wants during it and nothing will attack him.

Theres a reason why they dont have those options anymore

 

Running around with no real realistic risk is more than youll admit

 

Also loki can be targeted while invisible now

[Inmemoratus]

Theres a reason why they dont have those options anymore

 

Running around with no real realistic risk is more than youll admit

 

Also loki can be targeted while invisible now

 

The reason they don't have them anymore, as I pointed out, is that they bring a lot of team utility to the table which Valkyr does not. Frost didn't just make himself invincible. He made his whole team invincible.

 

I still haven't had any issues with Loki's invis. I feel like I can survive as Loki just as easily as I can with Valkyr, except he's more vulnerable when his invis wears off. Of course he makes up for that with ... GASP UTILITY. I know it's such a hard concept to appreciate but Valkyr cannot do anything like Radial Disarm or even Decoy to help her team. She has a short stun that has small range which is relatively useless compared to most CC skills in this game, and she has a decent buff but the armor is not useful to most warframes.

 

And personally even though I have Valkyr I prefer other warframes because they help the team a lot more. And currently with my power efficiency Banshee I can just keep all enemies permastunned so my team might as well be invincible. Valkyr isn't nearly that good. Her only value to the team is extremely good rezzing capabilities. It makes her a legitimate choice but not the only choice. As Banshee as long as there's another ally up I can just channel Soundquake and they can rez without worry. So a warframe like Valkyr is not required, it's just an option.