Poll:should Hysteria Invincibility Be Changed/removed

[Elvang]

Haven't played the game recently, huh?

Aside from fusion moas who seem to know where I am even if I haven't shot/made any noise, invisibility seems to function pretty much as it has before. Enemies will move around a bit when I fire and take cover, but hardly any take pot shots at me now than before it was changed. Just as easy to solo stuff as a permanently invisible loki as it was before, not even accounting for usage with his other abilities.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Elvang

[(PSN)MrNishi]

The reason they don't have them anymore, as I pointed out, is that they bring a lot of team utility to the table which Valkyr does not. Frost didn't just make himself invincible. He made his whole team invincible.

 

I still haven't had any issues with Loki's invis. I feel like I can survive as Loki just as easily as I can with Valkyr, except he's more vulnerable when his invis wears off. Of course he makes up for that with ... GASP UTILITY. I know it's such a hard concept to appreciate but Valkyr cannot do anything like Radial Disarm or even Decoy to help her team. She has a short stun that has small range which is relatively useless compared to most CC skills in this game, and she has a decent buff but the armor is not useful to most warframes.

 

And personally even though I have Valkyr I prefer other warframes because they help the team a lot more. And currently with my power efficiency Banshee I can just keep all enemies permastunned so my team might as well be invincible. Valkyr isn't nearly that good. Her only value to the team is extremely good rezzing capabilities. It makes her a legitimate choice but not the only choice. As Banshee as long as there's another ally up I can just channel Soundquake and they can rez without worry. So a warframe like Valkyr is not required, it's just an option.

I concur with your points about 'most' Warframe's having useful team utility and then there are some 'Solo' Warframes. Off the top of my head I would say Ash and Valkyr are more solo-oriented in comparison to Loki, Rhino, etc.. I would say Zephyr is solo-oriented as well.

I still think Hysteria with Damage Reduction on-top of Armor would still allow for Rezzing, but feel that Husyeria's melee should be unrivaled. 100% Base Crit chance +melee Crit chance affected by True Steel to allow for Red Crits - should cover the damage being unrivaled and life-steal.

As for Valkyr being "frightenly adept at killing..." I feel if Ripline and Paralysis could Crit that may be true to the description. While in Hysteria Ripline and Paralysis should deal more damage.

As she is now, I feel she is a solo survivalist more than a killing machine.

Maybe Hysteria could have an Aura Armor debuff like Nekros's terrify, so that she can kill more efficiently and have some Team Utility. Could have it mark the enemies closest to her scaled with Range mods. (Yeah it would hurt a Narrow Mind Build, but Team utility...)

[Inmemoratus]

I concur with your points about 'most' Warframe's having useful team utility and then there are some 'Solo' Warframes. Off the top of my head I would say Ash and Valkyr are more solo-oriented in comparison to Loki, Rhino, etc.. I would say Zephyr is solo-oriented as well.

I still think Hysteria with Damage Reduction on-top of Armor would still allow for Rezzing, but feel that Husyeria's melee should be unrivaled. 100% Base Crit chance +melee Crit chance affected by True Steel to allow for Red Crits - should cover the damage being unrivaled and life-steal.

As for Valkyr being "frightenly adept at killing..." I feel if Ripline and Paralysis could Crit that may be true to the description. While in Hysteria Ripline and Paralysis should deal more damage.

As she is now, I feel she is a solo survivalist more than a killing machine.

Maybe Hysteria could have an Aura Armor debuff like Nekros's terrify, so that she can kill more efficiently and have some Team Utility. Could have it mark the enemies closest to her scaled with Range mods. (Yeah it would hurt a Narrow Mind Build, but Team utility...)

 

Well let's face it, she's never gonna be the killer that Nova is but she'll always be the most survivalist Warframe even with changes like you suggest. Personally I'd rather she takes that niche to the extreme that she currently does otherwise I would ask myself why I even have a Valkyr.

[LiquidSorrow]

I have a suggestion. 
What if during Hysteria, she still gets damaged but can't be killed? (HP stops at 2hp)

So that during the Hysteria time period, life steal via melee made sense?
Also people would have to be smart enough to have to avoid damage at the end of Hysteria to keep themselves alive? 

This would be a better gameplay mechanic that's not entirely reliant on being invincible as people put it. :D

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Well let's face it, she's never gonna be the killer that Nova is but she'll always be the most survivalist Warframe even with changes like you suggest. Personally I'd rather she takes that niche to the extreme that she currently does otherwise I would ask myself why I even have a Valkyr.

I would say Nova "was", with that change to M-Prime allowing others to get credit for starting the chain explosions - instead of it just counting as Nova's stats.

While I concur she will always be a survivalist - her description still reads as being ".... frightenly adept at killing..." I would just like for her to reflect that. And yeah post Melee 2.0 if Hysteria is supposed to be the 'Ultimate' Melee mode for arguably the most melee-oriented WarFrame it should be a no contest when comparing Hysteria to any melee weapon...Red Crits should make that apparent and an added enemy Armor debuff would add some team utility for not penalizing a player for using Hysteria in a team environment and make it easiernto kill nearby enemies in lieu of having Damage Absorption in place of invincibility.

[Azawarau]

The reason they don't have them anymore, as I pointed out, is that they bring a lot of team utility to the table which Valkyr does not. Frost didn't just make himself invincible. He made his whole team invincible.

 

I still haven't had any issues with Loki's invis. I feel like I can survive as Loki just as easily as I can with Valkyr, except he's more vulnerable when his invis wears off. Of course he makes up for that with ... GASP UTILITY. I know it's such a hard concept to appreciate but Valkyr cannot do anything like Radial Disarm or even Decoy to help her team. She has a short stun that has small range which is relatively useless compared to most CC skills in this game, and she has a decent buff but the armor is not useful to most warframes.

 

And personally even though I have Valkyr I prefer other warframes because they help the team a lot more. And currently with my power efficiency Banshee I can just keep all enemies permastunned so my team might as well be invincible. Valkyr isn't nearly that good. Her only value to the team is extremely good rezzing capabilities. It makes her a legitimate choice but not the only choice. As Banshee as long as there's another ally up I can just channel Soundquake and they can rez without worry. So a warframe like Valkyr is not required, it's just an option.

Then why not change hysteria so she has more that that

 

Keep in mind that im a pure defensive utility built valkyr with a heavy focus on survival

[Inmemoratus]

Then why not change hysteria so she has more that that

 

Keep in mind that im a pure defensive utility built valkyr with a heavy focus on survival

Well some frames are designed to be about team utility, and other frames are designed to be really survivalist and self sufficient. Valkyr is the latter type. She's useful to teams in that she probably won't ever die which means they can count on her to rez. But because she lacks in other areas, you'd be better off having a mixed squad than 4 Valkyrs.

 

edit: Also, Valkyr is very useful in a 2 man squad because she's self sufficient and can be counted on to rez. In that case my previous example of Banshee would be much less useful because she can't survive to rez in bad situations, and if it's a 2 man squad all the CC in the world isn't gonna help your downed partner get back on his feet.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Inmemoratus

[Troll_Logic]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  "The people who think Valkyr's invulnerability is OP are people who don't play a powerful Valkyr."

[holyicon]

I may just be echoing another's point.

If Hysteria leaked damage through to the Valkyr, that would actually make her more powerful.

Ever hear of a little mod called Rage?

Well, what it does is, gives you energy based on the damage you take.

Meaning you could earn back the energy from casting Hysteria while also restoring the damage taken by slashing things.


Now, I can take whatever change D.E. decides to go with (if any). After-all, my favorite frame TO THIS DAY, is Trinity. My 2nd being Valkyr. So, really, a change to Hysteria in this way would either not affect me, or actually help.

I don't get players these days. "Balance, balance, balance! OP! OP! OP!"

All ... ALL the frames are good. Just because you haven't found out HOW they are good, it doesn't mean that some other frame is OP.

[Inmemoratus]

I may just be echoing another's point.

If Hysteria leaked damage through to the Valkyr, that would actually make her more powerful.

Ever hear of a little mod called Rage?

Well, what it does is, gives you energy based on the damage you take.

Meaning you could earn back the energy from casting Hysteria while also restoring the damage taken by slashing things.

Now, I can take whatever change D.E. decides to go with (if any). After-all, my favorite frame TO THIS DAY, is Trinity. My 2nd being Valkyr. So, really, a change to Hysteria in this way would either not affect me, or actually help.

I don't get players these days. "Balance, balance, balance! OP! OP! OP!"

All ... ALL the frames are good. Just because you haven't found out HOW they are good, it doesn't mean that some other frame is OP.

I don't think it would be that great. The current way it works is really good because since you cannot take damage, your shield regenerates and if you brought the health regen mod, that one begins working too.

 

Also if you are taking heavy damage and you manage to cast it and have like 2 HP left, you don't die. If it let any damage through that wouldn't save you anymore. I guess if they made it cast instantly or started the damage reduction during the cast animation this wouldn't be much of an issue.

 

But either way the fact that you get your shield back and the health regen aura regens you while it's up are both very useful features afforded by the invulnerability.

[vleessjuu]

I don't really have much of an opinion about Valkyr (I don't play her), but lemme just drop one statement: spammable invulnerability is boring. I think that In most games, invulnerability should not exist or only very briefly. How awesome is it to play Mario with constant Starman (Game Genie)? That's fun for 2 minutes and then it's boring. In general, I think that there almost always exist more interesting mechanics than invulnerability. For the same reason I think the old Trinity nerf was in order.

 

Anyway, like I said: I don't play Valkyr, so don't take me too seriously.

[Azawarau]

Well some frames are designed to be about team utility, and other frames are designed to be really survivalist and self sufficient. Valkyr is the latter type. She's useful to teams in that she probably won't ever die which means they can count on her to rez. But because she lacks in other areas, you'd be better off having a mixed squad than 4 Valkyrs.

 

edit: Also, Valkyr is very useful in a 2 man squad because she's self sufficient and can be counted on to rez. In that case my previous example of Banshee would be much less useful because she can't survive to rez in bad situations, and if it's a 2 man squad all the CC in the world isn't gonna help your downed partner get back on his feet.

Her utility is breaking the game

 

She should be able to stop to revive people without hysteria within the games level range when built corectly

 

She should have a 4 thats more useful on all tiers of play and doesnt hold her back

 

She should be more than just a way to completely bypass all game mechanics and negate damage while spamming E one enemy at a time to literally win your way through the game at a relatively slowpace

 

This is valkyrs issue

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  "The people who think Valkyr's invulnerability is OP are people who don't play a powerful Valkyr."

Its both OP and useless

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Its both OP and useless

This.  +1

[Tsunero]

Haha, nope. The nerf demands from people who aren't even playing her is ridiculous.

[Krustable]

hysteria kinda need to be less slow(in terms of movement and attack speed), so that i actually want to use it for more than stoping myself from dieing

 

DR scaling with remaining health is the best solution i can think of, ie. ~10% reduction at full hp, 99.9% at 1 hp, with random unbalanced values off the top of my head

[Mesyra]

Dont touch my baby :C

 

valkyr's only survivability falls into hysteria, she needs the life leech, reduce hysteria's duration to 15, give warcry 30 seconds, then its perfect.

[Naftal]

I don't really need the invincibility myself. If they removed that and made it toggle ability that doesn't use any energy, I'd use it more than I use now.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Naftal

[holyicon]

I don't think it would be that great. The current way it works is really good because since you cannot take damage, your shield regenerates and if you brought the health regen mod, that one begins working too.

 

Also if you are taking heavy damage and you manage to cast it and have like 2 HP left, you don't die. If it let any damage through that wouldn't save you anymore. I guess if they made it cast instantly or started the damage reduction during the cast animation this wouldn't be much of an issue.

 

But either way the fact that you get your shield back and the health regen aura regens you while it's up are both very useful features afforded by the invulnerability.

 

Hmm... well, no not "that great"?

But all I really said was it would allow rage to work through Hysteria, and that didn't bother me. Alone, sure it would represent some vulnerability, but only if she was too far to slash something and regain health. Yet, closing the gap between yourself and an attacker on Valkyr is rather simple, so there's always at least ONE target to get health back from if you're being attacked.

Where I said she'd be more powerful... please FFS do not read that as "OMG GUYS! TEH AUZ0M3 SAUZE!!!".

I'm speaking strictly with the understanding that most Valkyr builds already include Rage. My personal build includes Vigor, Vitality and Steel Fiber, so even without Hysteria up: my survivability is quite high.

I'm in no way endorsing the change, but nor would I be opposed to it. My entier comment is based around the notion that such a change would be essentially moot. The only people that are calling for a change are either PvP nuts or balance hawks. The people vehemently resiting the change equally tend to couch their reasons in overreaching judgements of how players "should" play.

So basically, the poll is moot, the support is moot, the detractors are moot, and I am triply moot. :P

Eh... so... um... good hunting?

 

[Tar_Spit_Fire]

sure....lets just make valkyr completely useless im all for it....Actually, I vote that bunnies and rainbows fly out when she gets hit in hysteria to illustrate her inner child is still there even in her rage state.

*like i said, kids a cruel, jack. and im very in touch with inner child!! wuahahahahahaha!!!* 

by the way i think it should change to having very high DR.. then all the damage taken while hysteria is active will be absorbed and stay for 5 sec and will be converted to next paralysis's damage. What do you guys think?

Edited September 18, 2014 by Tar_Spit_Fire

[Azawarau]

Haha, nope. The nerf demands from people who aren't even playing her is ridiculous.

I main her

 

And have taken her to an hour T 4 survival

 

Also im the OP of this thread

 

Dont touch my baby :C

 

valkyr's only survivability falls into hysteria, she needs the life leech, reduce hysteria's duration to 15, give warcry 30 seconds, then its perfect.

Life strike covers life stealing and hysteria isnt her only survivability tool

 

If you believe that then youve been playing her entirely wrong

 

Between warcry and life strike you can tank lvl 40 enemies with just your HP infinitely

 

Given that the games level range isnt much farther than that id say shes spot on

 

Also changing hysterias time value would only solidify it as the most useless ultimate

[crafturtoemc]

I totally agree with the nerf....:D

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

hysteria kinda need to be less slow(in terms of movement and attack speed), so that i actually want to use it for more than stoping myself from dieing

 

DR scaling with remaining health is the best solution i can think of, ie. ~10% reduction at full hp, 99.9% at 1 hp, with random unbalanced values off the top of my head

What if you, at 1% health, get + 99% DR, +99% attack speed, and +99% melee damage, and her melee attacks would only absorb health when she channeled in Hysteria. She would finally be a true berserker style frame and be a lot more involved and fun to play.

Edited September 18, 2014 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[Azawarau]

What if you, at 1% health, get + 99% DR, +99% attack speed, and +99% melee damage, and her melee attacks would only absorb health when she channeled in Hysteria. She would finally be a true berserker style frame and be a lot more involved and fun to play.

That would be greatly pushing the OP barrier

 

Though better than what we have now

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

That would be greatly pushing the OP barrier

 

Though better than what we have now

But it wouldn't, Lower Health = higher payoff (risk versus reward) is what would make her intriguing to play.  You would only have 99% if you had 1% of your health left, which would basically be one hit from death, unless you relied on QT and energy.

[Tar_Spit_Fire]

But it wouldn't, Lower Health = higher payoff (risk versus reward) is what would make her intriguing to play.  You would only have 99% if you had 1% of your health left, which would basically be one hit from death, unless you relied on QT and energy.

but.... casting right at 1% health is kinda too hard for some player since the level content you usually go while using her pretty much can chew through your hp too fast for you to even have time to react even with max steel fiber and max str warcry.