Hr Players Ruining Time, Fun And Efforts Of Newbies

[Agullimux]

OP you forget that veterans also want to get something out of game.

Game is designated that way so you must go back to lvl planets to farm for resources so you will meet veterans all the time.

Best place for those polymer bundles. team x restore...

[(PSN)Zeylon]

OP you forget that veterans also want to get something out of game.

Game is designated that way so you must go back to lvl planets to farm for resources so you will meet veterans all the time.

 

They might've wanted to consider that when scaling the bosses.  High-ranked characters in new-player games = bosses the new players can't even damage.

[Davoodoo]

They might've wanted to consider that when scaling the bosses.  High-ranked characters in new-player games = bosses the new players can't even damage.

They should then reconsider how they gonna scale them, make few scaled tiers of boss instead of fully automated scaling based on multiplying all stats and change flawed as hell conclave system.

[Mokkania]

or maybe just work on matchmaking.

[(XBOX)Skode]

Newer players can frustrate. If you ask for an invite to a T2 mission and i say "ok i will spread the love" because lets be honest three vets will be able to look out for the lad and still own the mission comfortably DO NOT bugger off just before the timer for the mission start is about to finish leaving us with just the three man team at the start and someone else missing out on the rares who would have gladly taken that spot and not been a jackass. Also bad when THEY are the ones prompting you to stay on in survival and then leaving the game when it gets to much for them - i think half the problem is i give new players TOO much leeway, i should really vet them before throwing away things like tower runs on them when theyve no interest in staying the distance.

 

Still besides those muppets i enjoy playing with anyone and everyone one. Doesnt matter how new you are to the game im happy to help as long as you listen to what i have to say... its survival dont go hitting the oxygen tank at 93%, its defend the artifact... dont go solo commando with your Excalibur all sword in hand etc. It can make a real difference to someone new being able to do the things theyve hit a wall in doing themselves... getting the credits from tough events for their first sentinel, maybe getting access to that boss at the end of a planet they cant find anyone to play through with or what have you. At the end of the day the newer players are the lifeblood of the game too... maybe more, vets wont need to spend money - they can trade for plat, its the new guys who are funding DE likely better than any of the vets are.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1.) What's so hard to understand I want to leave, actually need to leave after 20 mn of survival mission, since I couldn't handle mobs anymore, waiting for at least 5 mn at extraction. Oh and bytheway I did not leave the group, they left me behind because they did not give a rat arse about me. And I have many many more examples like this one since I begun to play this game.

 

2.) They asked me to come back to them (which I just couldn't do : too many enemies between me and them, obviously they didn't come back to me to help gathering up : since it would have been simplier to just extract) they had absolutely no plan to extract or taking me into consideration. They were just selfish, rude and lame hr players, as it happens quite frequently actually since the beginning of my experience with this game.

 

3.) I started the game, 2 others players came in as adds : they have to adapt to the weaker : that's the spirit of helping (some people don't do what you want because they don't want, but maybe just because they can't, wayward kids) or at least ask for what they want, or this is only the law of the stronger, which is quite a very bad thing.

 

4.) Anyway I don't want to discuss this, people thinking I owe something to vets who come to "steal/own" games because I just let the game openned to coop, are just blatant self centred idiots who think quite wrongly they began with everything they needed and that now they are vets people have to fulfill all their wishes.

 

5.) I hope devs will take my suggestion into consideration, since it causes no issue to anyone but in the contrary would solve some issues due to sadly frequent lame hr behavior, thanks to have put this thread in the right section bytheway.

Lol, no.

 

1.) You left them.  I am fairly certain that they weren't defending the extraction point at any point. I wouldn't care if you ran off to the extraction point either.

 

2.) Sounds like you were the selfish one. You weren't doing anything to meet them halfway. You wanted to extract when no one else did.  Now, you are here to whine to teacher because you didn't get your own way.  Even, if you can score any kills, you can still benefit from leeching.  Even if you die, you can still benefit.

 

Protip: You don't have to kill everything between you and them to get to them.  Just dodge and weave your way around, never engaging the enemies beyond CCing them. 

 

3.) No, the weaker should adapt to the stronger.  They aren't there to baby sit you. If you were a smart player, you would be taking full advantage of that additional power.

 

4.) You are the one acting self-centered.  If you want to play one way, and only one way, then you should be playing solo.  They came into a public game, and they played the mode as it was intended. They didn't "steal" anything. It is a "public" game.

 

5.) They should let people extract individually in survival because it benefits everyone.

[(PSN)Hollow118]

Ease up some of you guys, some of the negative comments aren't making it better for him.

 

In reality, yes you do need to communicate with HR players what your intentions are. When HR players enter these matches they have a mindset of staying nearly an hour in a survival run (Apollodorus anyone?). If you take a minute, find a spot from enemies and quickly ask them to extract at 5 minuts or what not, I'm sure they would oblige.

 

In my case I'm more supportive for new players. If they run straight to extraction at 5min and I get that stupid UI message, yeah its a little annoying, but I understand that some new players are just clearing the mission, don't think they can handle enemies (when we reach 15min +), or just haven't experience the game enough to understand the incentive to keep fighting. And that's ok and I'll head to extraction.

 

But the whole HR players in low level missions is inevitable but an issue. Yes we use it to level up new gear so we can slap on those good mods, or for a new forma'd frame. But its ridiculous to see Mastery Rank 16 Players destroying everything on missions like Terminus. I'm guilty of this in the past, so if I do attend low level missions I usually take a back seat to the new players and let them have fun, and if they need a helping hand, I'll be there. The low missions are just easy xp farms for me, or for when I'm just bored and want to help some people.

 

My recommendation is to definitely be open with HR Players if they show up and tell them your intentions if you play survival again. Keep in mind these guys run the same missions in nearly 30-40min intervals so I think you wanting to leave a bit early shouldn't really bother them. Or at least hope it doesn't, because every once in a while you will get a really stubborn player that doesn't care for your intentions.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

If they run straight to extraction at 5min . . . haven't experience the game enough to understand the incentive to keep fighting. . . . I'll head to extraction.

You aren't helping them.

[Phatose]

It just don't need to be, problem would be solved thanks to a simple option. I'm not willing players to not be able to be power leveled, which is basically what hr players are doing unintentionally (which I think is lame personally) but I should have the choice to play with other players roughly of the same rank/power/level of mine in a coop game, to enjoy the game at my own rythm. That's the point.

 

I don't think that's such an issue for hr players since it wouldn't change anything for them, but just for some players who want some fair challenge at low/mid levels... Unless there's something else but just to rush grinding as many resources as possible when in hr... like showing off before newbies and laughing at them dying miserably maybe..?

 

Well, they did have some mastery rank filtering before UI 2.0.  I'm not sure if they still do - it was limited to Mercury only, and Mercury is no longer even the starter planet.

 

There are several reasons why there's not filtering like you suggests.  The first reason is that mastery rank is actually a terrible indicator of actual effectiveness.  With the 'get new frame/weapon, start back at level 0' leveling system Warframe uses, it's entirely possible - and even probable - that the high mastery rank guy is actually using a low level, low tiered weapon and possibly frame too.  Given that you actually *have* to do that, over and over again, to achieve a high mastery rank, it's actually quite common.

 

That HR16 player who joined you game might be a walking apocalypse, sure.  But he also might be using a freshly formaed frame and a weapon he's leveling, resulting in that HR4 guy with the level 28 frame and gun being considerably more dangerous then he is.  That just the nature of warframe - you're always in flux.  You don't start out weak and get strong, you start out weak, get strong, go back to being weak, get stronger then before, then back to being weak basically forever.

 

That's the main problem with your suggestion - it's using something as a filter for combat effectiveness that isn't actually connected to combat effectiveness at all.

 

There are other issues - the starmap is quite large and causes player fractionation as is, and the more filters you put on, the more likely it is you'll be playing solo anyway simply because no one else is playing that node who can pass your filters. 

 

And there's the underlying issue that setting a match to public actually means it's not "your" match anymore.  And that's true whether it's a newbie annoyed they're reduced to a bit player when well equipped vets show up, or a vet annoyed that the newbie wants to leave at 5 minutes.   You set it to public, and that's the cost - it's a public match, and you don't get to decide who takes part it in, because it's not your match anymore.

 

That's why we're telling you to communicate better in match instead of embracing some kind of filtration.  Communicating in the match works.  Filtering won't.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Well, they did have some mastery rank filtering before UI 2.0.  I'm not sure if they still do - it was limited to Mercury only, and Mercury is no longer even the starter planet.

 

There are several reasons why there's not filtering like you suggests.  The first reason is that mastery rank is actually a terrible indicator of actual effectiveness.  With the 'get new frame/weapon, start back at level 0' leveling system Warframe uses, it's entirely possible - and even probable - that the high mastery rank guy is actually using a low level, low tiered weapon and possibly frame too.  Given that you actually *have* to do that, over and over again, to achieve a high mastery rank, it's actually quite common.

 

That HR16 player who joined you game might be a walking apocalypse, sure.  But he also might be using a freshly formaed frame and a weapon he's leveling, resulting in that HR4 guy with the level 28 frame and gun being considerably more dangerous then he is.  That just the nature of warframe - you're always in flux.  You don't start out weak and get strong, you start out weak, get strong, go back to being weak, get stronger then before, then back to being weak basically forever.

 

That's the main problem with your suggestion - it's using something as a filter for combat effectiveness that isn't actually connected to combat effectiveness at all.

 

There are other issues - the starmap is quite large and causes player fractionation as is, and the more filters you put on, the more likely it is you'll be playing solo anyway simply because no one else is playing that node who can pass your filters. 

 

And there's the underlying issue that setting a match to public actually means it's not "your" match anymore.  And that's true whether it's a newbie annoyed they're reduced to a bit player when well equipped vets show up, or a vet annoyed that the newbie wants to leave at 5 minutes.   You set it to public, and that's the cost - it's a public match, and you don't get to decide who takes part it in, because it's not your match anymore.

 

That's why we're telling you to communicate better in match instead of embracing some kind of filtration.  Communicating in the match works.  Filtering won't.

+1

 

Also, if they DID want to filter for some reason, then it would be better to base it on conclave rating, though they values the assign to things needs another look. It would also need to be a filter that slowly widens its range.  Wouldn't you rather have someone far below you power than no one at all, especially in those later planets?

[Mokkania]

Well, they did have some mastery rank filtering before UI 2.0.  I'm not sure if they still do - it was limited to Mercury only, and Mercury is no longer even the starter planet.

 

There are several reasons why there's not filtering like you suggests.  The first reason is that mastery rank is actually a terrible indicator of actual effectiveness.  With the 'get new frame/weapon, start back at level 0' leveling system Warframe uses, it's entirely possible - and even probable - that the high mastery rank guy is actually using a low level, low tiered weapon and possibly frame too.  Given that you actually *have* to do that, over and over again, to achieve a high mastery rank, it's actually quite common.

 

That HR16 player who joined you game might be a walking apocalypse, sure.  But he also might be using a freshly formaed frame and a weapon he's leveling, resulting in that HR4 guy with the level 28 frame and gun being considerably more dangerous then he is.  That just the nature of warframe - you're always in flux.  You don't start out weak and get strong, you start out weak, get strong, go back to being weak, get stronger then before, then back to being weak basically forever.

If you put the filter as an option, new players who have the filter will play exclusively with LR players, those who don't filter can get HR players.

And HR players who are leveling will get with other players that are leveling or with new players who don't put the option, no problem?

Besides that HR players who level things can play anywhere they want solo or not with what they can do, have and know.

 

There are other issues - the starmap is quite large and causes player fractionation as is, and the more filters you put on, the more likely it is you'll be playing solo anyway simply because no one else is playing that node who can pass your filters.

This is a real issue, but that's what a filter do, it give you less people to play with, with an option it'd be up to the person to choose, the problem with having no luck and ending solo is another kind of problem.

Other issue could be not being able to play with a friend you introduce to the game but if it's an option it'll still work fine.

 

And there's the underlying issue that setting a match to public actually means it's not "your" match anymore.  And that's true whether it's a newbie annoyed they're reduced to a bit player when well equipped vets show up, or a vet annoyed that the newbie wants to leave at 5 minutes.   You set it to public, and that's the cost - it's a public match, and you don't get to decide who takes part it in, because it's not your match anymore.

 

That's why we're telling you to communicate better in match instead of embracing some kind of filtration.  Communicating in the match works.  Filtering won't.

Well, if you add some restrictions filter, match can be better matching... Naw it's too complicated but you're trying to put a barrier on a function/word when you don't necessarily have to, just because it's a public matching doesn't mean you can't accommodate it.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Mokkania

[marelooke]

While not related to survival necessarily, I think this topic has some merit.

 

Earlier today I was trying out some of the "new player" experience content on a second account.  So, I queued up for Vor.  On the other account, I'm rank 0 (this account is rank 16), and there were two other zeroes sporting new player gear.  Mid-match, someone jumps in at MR8.  The level goes as normal till the boss, who spawns at 43 or so.  

 

Through a process of repeatedly reviving the other downed zeroes, we managed to get him to shield up the first time, then the 40+ soldiers spawn, and we all wipe.  The MR8 guy is incapable of soloing Vor, berates everyone for being "noobs" then drops after dying.  I personally didn't burn revives, because it looked like a lost cause as soon as I saw Vor's level.  However, the other new players seemed to burn up their revives trying to stay alive for a boss fight they had no chance of winning - the very first boss in the entire game on the first planet with a suggested level range of 3-4.  

Those new players logged off because they were out of revives (and they only have the one frame).  I queued up for another match, redux of the first situation with a MR0, MR1, and a MR7 that drops in.  He complained over mic, but I couldn't understand him.  Vor was slightly lower there, but still too high for any of us to take down a single Lancer that Vor spawns.

 

In the end, these higher ranked players were "ruining" the game for the lower players, and turning them off to the game.  I don't think it's entirely their fault - a lot of that's matchmaking and the way they decided to make bosses scale.  I do blame them somewhat for sucking and not understanding boss-scaling at MR7/8 I guess.  

 

In any event, with bosses at least, high level players can indeed "ruin things" for lower level players.  Matchmaking seems key here, since I don't know if I'd consider the situation where a High-level player stomps the entire level and runs to the exit without lower players even getting to play a "better" option.

 

Yups, I made a thread about this a while ago, it's a topic that often pops up, though generally it's the veterans mentioning, not the newbies. I guess the newbies tend to just quit after such an offputting experience.

 

As to the topic: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/307564-new-player-experience-boss-level-scaling-is-just-plain-broken/

 

 

As to the OP's concern. It's fairly hard to judge the behaviour of the two players you were with without more details. But as another poster already stated, just heading to extraction without discussing it first is generally considered rude. If your gear starts to fall off due to the enemy scaling you should just mention that in chat (don't forget to mention you want to extract because of that as well, some people would be perfectly happy to carry you even though you're basically dead weight). Personally I'll just go to 15minutes (anybody trying to leave earlier is on his/her own as far as I'm concerned), after that it depends on the team and on whether anybody has expressed a desire to leave.

 

Also don't forget that the only thing you need to do in survival to get the mission rewards is be present in the session when it ends, this is something DE really should be advertising better since it's different form how other missions work: if the enemies become *much* too tough and you die, just stay dead. There really is no point in burning revives as you'll get the rewards anyway (this includes mastery and all the loot you have collected up to that point).

 

Personally if I see someone that doesn't revive I usually ask if they want me to extract (assuming we're past 15min). If I don't get a response I assume they've gone AFK and/or are OK with me providing them with extra rewards in which case I'll just do whatever I feel like.

 

When it comes to survival, communication is key.

 

That said, it's equally possible that those two were just being seriously inconsiderate. Dragging a low experience player through 30+ minutes of survival against their will is just extremely rude (just as rude as extracting before the 15min mark without discussing it first), but unfortunately until DE does something about the extraction mechanics in survival there is very little you can do about it aside from sucking it up or aborting the mission, neither are much fun, but I'm afraid there currently are no other options.

Edited September 16, 2014 by marelooke

[Phatose]

If you put the filter as an option, new players who have the filter will play exclusively with LR players, those who don't filter can get HR players.

And HR players who are leveling will get with other players that are leveling or with new players who don't put the option, no problem?

Besides that HR players who level things can play anywhere they want solo or not with what they can do, have and know.

 

This is a real issue, but that's what a filter do, it give you less people to play with, with an option it'd be up to the person to choose, the problem with having no luck and ending solo is another kind of problem.

Other issue could be not being able to play with a friend you introduce to the game but if it's an option it'll still work fine.

 

Well, if you add some restrictions filter, match can be better matching... Naw it's too complicated but you're trying to put a barrier on a function/word when you don't necessarily have to, just because it's a public matching doesn't mean you can't accommodate it.

 

Bit more complicated then you're suggesting.  Having the filter on wouldn't be able to just limit you to low MR players - it would have to limit you to low MR players who have the filter on.  A lowbie who has a filter on shouldn't be able to join one who has it off and prevent higher MR players from joining the game, despite the first being OK with it.  After all, who'd want to have the number of players who might join their public game cut down because another player who joined had a filter set?

 

But let's put all that aside for a moment and ask the basic question I've already brought up more explicitly.

 

Exactly high how a MR do you need to have before you can ROFLStomp everything?  6?  12?

 

As it turns out, not very high.   Boltor prime becomes available at MR....2.

 

That's the problem with this line of thought.  MR doesn't actually connect to how powerful you are.  Heck, a full tuned 6 forma Mk-1 braton can ROFLstomp most of the content in the game, and that's MR0.

 

Might as well add a filter based on how man vowels they have in their IGN. That will be just a useless, but at least no one would mistake it for something all that important.

[Jokubas]

I've just had to give up a survive mission I started because 2 other players came in, they had way better stuff than me and decided without asking to obviously keep the mission going as long as possible. I stood for more than 15 minutes, but since I had no revive left and mobs becoming too strong I decided to go to the ending point. I waited for several minutes there for nothing, they were asking me to come back with them, don't care about me just not being able to do it without dying. Being in majority I just couldn't finish the game thus wasted all my time and efforts... whereas they could have just finish the current game and started another one : they didn't need me at all to hold fast.

And this is why Survival is one of my least favorite game types. In no other gamemode can this happen in a normal circumstance. It's not even really about who should do what, it's about the uncertainty.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Jokubas

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

And this is why Survival is one of my least favorite game types. In no other gamemode can this happen in a normal circumstance. It's not even really about who should do what, it's about the uncertainty.

Not really, head to extraction when you want.  Wait in there for a like 30 seconds to a minute, if no one joins you then head out and get back to work.

[Davoodoo]

+1

 

Also, if they DID want to filter for some reason, then it would be better to base it on conclave rating, though they values the assign to things needs another look. It would also need to be a filter that slowly widens its range.  Wouldn't you rather have someone far below you power than no one at all, especially in those later planets?

PLS no conclave rating for gods sake.

average gear rank ok, average mod points used ok.

Anything other than broken conclave.

[Mokkania]

Bit more complicated then you're suggesting.  Having the filter on wouldn't be able to just limit you to low MR players - it would have to limit you to low MR players who have the filter on.  A lowbie who has a filter on shouldn't be able to join one who has it off and prevent higher MR players from joining the game, despite the first being OK with it.  After all, who'd want to have the number of players who might join their public game cut down because another player who joined had a filter set?

I see it'd be too dependant of how much people would actually put the filter

 

 

But let's put all that aside for a moment and ask the basic question I've already brought up more explicitly.

 

Exactly high how a MR do you need to have before you can ROFLStomp everything?  6?  12?

 

As it turns out, not very high.   Boltor prime becomes available at MR....2.

 

That's the problem with this line of thought.  MR doesn't actually connect to how powerful you are.  Heck, a full tuned 6 forma Mk-1 braton can ROFLstomp most of the content in the game, and that's MR0.

 

Might as well add a filter based on how man vowels they have in their IGN. That will be just a useless, but at least no one would mistake it for something all that important.

New players usually range from 0 to 3(/4 if it's stretched but I'd guess at 4 you'd be at the comfortable point of the game, that playing with HR players shouldn't be a big issue)

 

MR is not a good indicator for power but it does indicate a little bit the time spent on the game (after that there can always be exceptions)

 

A "new player" with boltor prime doesn't bring as much problem as what is in here about the HR players

But If we outstretch what you said just someone having a Latron or mid-tiers weapons(bought weapon at worst) who had more luck with mods drops and so would easily go through the worldmap is as much of a problem as HR players?

 

I'm not saying that an option filter would be the almighty solution but if it manages to ease a bit the problem, it could be worth the try.

Or even disregarding problems above like even cutting the numbers and not being able to play with new players or introduced friend you could settle with an absolute restriction if you think "solving" the problem is worth more than the troubles arising by doing that, so just to say that I think the possiblity is not to exclude.

After that settling the right MR values, I can't really say.

[Toutatrix]

I'm quite amazed to see some experienced players ignoring the issue by just thinking I'm some kind of whining kid, as stubbornly thinking I'm the very only one to experience such lame behaviors (not only in survival missions indeed) whereas there are quite a numerous amount of posts supporting lame behavior of hr players... Thus other noobs who have suffered them, logically.

 

As already said : I've dealt with that already, yes I still encounter self centred lame bast..ds (like the recent example I used in my first post) once in a while, but I now how to counter them.

 

I've started this thread to give some feedback about a game I learnt to like, despite not a toxic but surely a despising community (especially hr players who don't give a F*** about new players at best) which is far from unbearable since I'm used to toxic pvp communities (of MOBAs for example).

 

I still think this is an issue for new players, thus for the game, and it would be sad to see all those players come in trying this game to just leave it a few hours later just because HR players are ignoring them at best, exploiting/making fun of them at worste (since HR could totally run missions alone : no need to play in coop to chain grind low missions) ruining their fun anyway.

[Zero.No.Hikari]

I don't see that many peeps saying you're whining or any of that.  Some are saying it was your fault but not many.  If anything a few of were trying to understand what the situation was and how it could been resolved easily.   Don't take that as jabs at you, they aren't we just are doing our best to figure out the situation.   Trust me a lot of us want peeps to feel welcome hence why we hounded DE for a better new player experience.  back when I start our tutorial was:  Shoot with this, now this, now try melee, now try a skill, now pick a Warframe, and tutorial over.   Heck I spent the better half of an hour learning the basics from the wiki.  afterwards I tried my hand at a melee only mission.....it failed......bad,  Now a days I feel newbies get it a lot easier than we do and are immersed into it even faster.   Don't take it the wrong way though.  You guys are lucky.  We.....not so much.

[Phatose]

To put this as gently as possible:  You should probably step back and ask if those players are being self-centered and lame, or if you're behaving in a manner that paints you as self-centered and they're responding in kind.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I'm quite amazed to see some experienced players ignoring the issue by just thinking I'm some kind of whining kid, as stubbornly thinking I'm the very only one to experience such lame behaviors (not only in survival missions indeed) whereas there are quite a numerous amount of posts supporting lame behavior of hr players... Thus other noobs who have suffered them, logically.

 

As already said : I've dealt with that already, yes I still encounter self centred lame bast..ds (like the recent example I used in my first post) once in a while, but I now how to counter them.

 

I've started this thread to give some feedback about a game I learnt to like, despite not a toxic but surely a despising community (especially hr players who don't give a F*** about new players at best) which is far from unbearable since I'm used to toxic pvp communities (of MOBAs for example).

 

I still think this is an issue for new players, thus for the game, and it would be sad to see all those players come in trying this game to just leave it a few hours later just because HR players are ignoring them at best, exploiting/making fun of them at worste (since HR could totally run missions alone : no need to play in coop to chain grind low missions) ruining their fun anyway.

Again: HR players are not there as babysitters.  Allowing individual extraction would work out best for everyone though.

[Sasquatchias]

You aren't helping them.

Neither is forcing them to go against waves of enemies who are too strong for them.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Neither is forcing them to go against waves of enemies who are too strong for them.

Yes, forcing them to learn to play does help them, and they still get the rewards even if they die so . . . also helping.

[fatpig84]

Normally I play to 20 minutes survival for most pub games.

For the tower key and guaranteed rare mod (like mutations).

 

I normally ask first, if someone gotta go early, i will leave along with him, if he reply of course.

If he say can he afk, I usually would not mind as I am normally loki, so I can ST him to "safe zones".

 

But the key is you have to talk and tell people.

Edited September 17, 2014 by fatpig84

[VergilDT]

Ironically when OP becomes a HR player their perspective will change and this thread will be forgotten/turned into "so tire of newbies *@##$ing".