Melee Combos Take Too Much Concentration And Arent Even Worth Doing.

[Currystador]

Its really un-appealing to pull most of them off because

1. they take too much time thinking if you held the button long enough, or if you paused long enough.

2. most of the combos are almost useless in 1v1 because the thing you're trying to kill is already dead after the first 2 hits.

My solution for them:

Step 1. instead of the pause combo button (which completely breaks the fast paced flow of the game) replace it with "R". You dont use that key in melee mode so R would be a great alt attack for melee. The "hold" combos are also some of the worst because thats basically the same as pause. It doesnt fit in the game. Have that replaced by the 2nd alt attack button "F". I dont think f is used for anything... But thats it. Don't have more than 3 attack buttons. And finally the one requiring you to hold right mouse button is just such a useless way to make a combo. because you just have to start off by holding the right mouse for the whole time while pressing attack. But with 3 alt attack buttons, it shouldn't be a problem to make a combo.

Of course, it doesn't have to be exactly how I made it, but changes like this would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Thats step 1. Make the combos easy and fast to pull off.

 

Step 2. Most of the combos kill an enemy after the first hit or two. And theres almost no way of changing that. So make combos, the ideal thing to go to when you have 3 or 4 enemies at once. They shouldn't focus on 1 single enemy. So make them all have some way of an aoe (an explosion would be a good start, because you can't just change the animations to all the weapons.)

 

-------------------------------------

A side note.

If you ever do add alt attack buttons, I feel like it would be really nice if you press e to swing one way, and the other button (lets say "r") to swing the opposite way. And then the 3rd alt attack button could be a slower but a bit stronger attack. (BUT. not like charge attacks. Just a heaver hit)

 

And one final thing... just a personal preferance, would be to make the combos actually "Flashy". Flashy as in just add some cool effects and particles and things.

I don't know about this if most people would like it, so just post in the comments if you do or dont support flashy combos.

But I really hope melee combos are actually used in game.

 

 

 

 

 

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASSSE reply to this thread to keep it alive if you agree with even one thing. (Say what you dont agree with in the reply). Dont just +1 this and move on.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Currystador

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

[HalotroopermanX7]

Well... I somewhat agree with what you're saying but : I believe the combos that require you to pause are the toughest ones, the rest (hold RmB or hold the melee button) are pretty easy for me... (it depends on your stance)

[Currystador]

Well... I somewhat agree with what you're saying but : I believe the combos that require you to pause are the toughest ones, the rest (hold RmB or hold the melee button) are pretty easy for me... (it depends on your stance)

The RMB ones are actually brutal on the kronen (the tonfas), because it uses RMB for 2 combos, and you almost have no control of which combo you're going to pull off.

[Currystador]

Yah. Lets all go around putting this on every post on the forums then.

[unknow99]

OP has some points.

 

Having a light button/strong button or a weakbutton/medium button/strong button = no more combo worries...

 

And you know what? In melee mode, the reload button is free. ;)

[Agullimux]

There are few weapons that i would never use against infested if did not have stance for some good aoe combos.

edit: if op tries to say that combos are too plain, yeah de could add reload.

Not all weapons need aoe multihit combos, some are great for taking generally all and some are good for heavy single targets.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Agullimux

[xkillo32]

go do one hour in t4 survival and say that combos are useless cause everything dies in a hit

[Currystador]

go do one hour in t4 survival and say that combos are useless cause everything dies in a hit

but it takes to much time to just execute those combos. thats why everyone just spams e

[OptimumBow0]

I'm all for "R".

 

Those pauses are unpredictable if you're lagging.

[Mesyra]

-snip-

Swirling tiger is very much worth using when you use the really fast multi hit combo, its really easy to use

[Frostosti]

melee E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E

no idea what i m doing

i never paid any attention to combos so far, all they do is give me 10 more mod points

[GhostSwordsman]

The Big Lebowski. Good movie.

(note, combo chains=rules)

[Jinryusai]

go do one hour in t4 survival and say that combos are useless cause everything dies in a hit

"One hour later" Everything dies in one hit.

[Noble_Cactus]

Agreed. The combos in this game feel too canned to be enjoyable. They look nice, sure, but since when did you ever see the flying scythe in Reaping Spiral actually hit anything?

 

They also don't fit with the flow of the game at all. They require you to hunker down and dial out the combo, except that while you're doing that, the enemy is casually walking away from you while you're flailing at air. Or your teammate killsteals you. I do it sometimes because I get irritated at the one guy who's whacking at some Bombard and is about to die because of it.

 

Reintroducing generic combo finishers like charge attacks, along with introducing new gap closers that prevent enemies from waltzing away from you, would help melee combat flow more naturally. We already have gap closers in Swirling Tiger and Iron Phoenix, but we have to wait for a specific part of the combo for them to activate.

 

 

Very constructive post.

 

go do one hour in t4 survival and say that combos are useless cause everything dies in a hit

 

Let me know how it goes when you're shot down in the middle of a combo because you were too busy flailing your dongle at that gunner.

[jjpdn]

Melee?

If you're Valkyr or Trinity, yes, go for it... (no one cares about Rhino [AT HIGH LEVELS] cause his abilities don't scale at all)

But if you're using another Warframe? SCREW THE THOUGHT RUN + SPAM ABILITIES AND CROSS YOUR FINGER DON'T DIE.

 

I also actually like combos. They either:

1. Multiply damage.

2. Multi-hit per button press

3. Lovely ragdoll or knockdown

4. Proc (believe it or not, that's useful [sometimes])

Plus, for some reason, I'm easily able to time my strikes to go with the pause thing.

I'm also able to easily choose whatever combo I need.

 

It takes skill. If you have no skill with that certain weapon (like me and pistols), don't blame your weapon (F**** YOU SEER WHY YOU **** SON OF **** LATO VANDAL **** ***** ****) <- ....like that. 

Or just come over with a Boltor Prime. Either way goes. 

 

 

Agreed. The combos in this game feel too canned to be enjoyable. They look nice, sure, but since when did you ever see the flying scythe in Reaping Spiral actually hit anything?

 

They also don't fit with the flow of the game at all. They require you to hunker down and dial out the combo, except that while you're doing that, the enemy is casually walking away from you while you're flailing at air. Or your teammate killsteals you. I do it sometimes because I get irritated at the one guy who's whacking at some Bombard and is about to die because of it.

 

Reintroducing generic combo finishers like charge attacks, along with introducing new gap closers that prevent enemies from waltzing away from you, would help melee combat flow more naturally. We already have gap closers in Swirling Tiger and Iron Phoenix, but we have to wait for a specific part of the combo for them to activate.

 

 

Very constructive post.

 

 

Let me know how it goes when you're shot down in the middle of a combo because you were too busy flailing your dongle at that gunner.

Some combos are useable. Some are not. Some are used for correct situations. 

 

Some suck.

 

Choose wisely, Tenno.

 

You just want charge back because it was so easy.

 

Don't blame the sniper when you try to use it like the Boltor Prime, Tenno.

 

"Hunker down and dial out the combo" ...I'm speechless.

 

ALL COMBOS: 

either    Press buttons at a constant interval determined by weapon swing speed. Like, this: Tah. Tha. Tha... (combos with a pause)

or          Spam button (normal)

or          Spam button + Hold other button (combos with other key presses)

 

But yes, it's so annoying when a random guy tries to melee someone without stunning them in some way first.

 

 

THESE ARE COMMENTS MADE FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCES. THIS IS MY OWN OPINION.

Edited September 17, 2014 by jjpdn

[xepher2]

Mobility is not good in combos as well. I ve already got backstabbed numerous times when i want to use long chain combos. wt i suggest is having some frames (at least before attack and after attack) connected to rolling. So u can dodge attacks and skip away some stupid finishers

[Noble_Cactus]

Melee?

If you're Valkyr or Trinity, yes, go for it... (no one cares about Rhino [AT HIGH LEVELS] cause his abilities don't scale at all)

But if you're using another Warframe? SCREW THE THOUGHT RUN + SPAM ABILITIES AND CROSS YOUR FINGER DON'T DIE.

 

I also actually like combos. They either:

1. Multiply damage.

2. Multi-hit per button press

3. Lovely ragdoll or knockdown

4. Proc (believe it or not, that's useful [sometimes])

Plus, for some reason, I'm easily able to time my strikes to go with the pause thing.

I'm also able to easily choose whatever combo I need.

 

It takes skill. If you have no skill with that certain weapon (like me and pistols), don't blame your weapon (F**** YOU SEER WHY YOU **** SON OF **** LATO VANDAL **** ***** ****) <- ....like that. 

Or just come over with a Boltor Prime. Either way goes. 

 

 

Some combos are useable. Some are not. Some are used for correct situations. 

 

Some suck.

 

Choose wisely, Tenno.

 

You just want charge back because it was so easy.

 

Don't blame the sniper when you try to use it like the Boltor Prime, Tenno.

 

"Hunker down and dial out the combo" ...I'm speechless.

 

ALL COMBOS: 

either    Press buttons at a constant interval determined by weapon swing speed. Like, this: Tah. Tha. Tha... (combos with a pause)

or          Spam button (normal)

or          Spam button + Hold other button (combos with other key presses)

 

But yes, it's so annoying when a random guy tries to melee someone without stunning them in some way first.

 

 

THESE ARE COMMENTS MADE FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCES. THIS IS MY OWN OPINION.

 

No, I want charge back because it felt satisfying to kill loads of enemies in one swing. If it is re-introduced, it can be balanced by including a long recovery animation after the swing as a downside. Most of the new combos are easy too, so that's not a factor.

 

"Dialing" a combo is just another word for doing the inputs in the correct order, complete with all of the necessary pauses and holds. I should have made my point clearer, though. What I meant was that once you start a combo, you're basically just moving in one line, doing each move in the sequence. This is anathema to what Warframe touts in its gameplay, which is fast movement and flexibility in combat. Newer stances are getting better about this because they allow you to move around while doing the animations, I'll admit.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[jjpdn]

No, I want charge back because it felt satisfying to kill loads of enemies in one swing. If it is re-introduced, it can be balanced by including a long recovery animation after the swing as a downside. Most of the new combos are easy too, so that's not a factor.

 

"Dialing" a combo is just another word for doing the inputs in the correct order, complete with all of the necessary pauses and holds. I should have made my point clearer, though. What I meant was that once you start a combo, you're basically just moving in one line, doing each move in the sequence. This is anathema to what Warframe touts in its gameplay, which is fast movement and flexibility in combat. Newer stances are getting better about this because they allow you to move around while doing the animations, I'll admit.

One expression (for your first paragraph): Cleaving Whirlwind + Galatine

I don't really want the old charge stuff back for that one.

1000 damage vs 800% damage on each swing... hm...

 

For the second paragraph, don't you just change directions or use a shorter combo? Like, for the Dragon Nikana, I use the short E + hold E for knocking seperated enemies down one peg at a time.

Edited September 17, 2014 by jjpdn

[Noble_Cactus]

One expression (for your first paragraph): Cleaving Whirlwind + Galatine

I don't really want the old charge stuff back for that one.

1000 damage vs 800% damage on each swing... hm...

 

For the second paragraph, don't you just change directions or use a shorter combo? Like, for the Dragon Nikana, I use the short E + hold E for knocking seperated enemies down one peg at a time.

 

Cleaving Whirlwind is nice, but I'd like a basic charge attack back on other weapons as well. It could be a nice combo finisher for short E E E chains if you're not going for the AoE or big knockdowns of longer combos.

 

Ah. What I meant was that when you're attacking a group of enemies, you do a few hits, stop, then run/flip jump slam over to another, start again, stop, run over to another... it's a bit cumbersome, and I wish there were more fluid ways to engage multiple targets in combat.

[Jinryusai]

Its really un-appealing to pull most of them off because

1. they take too much time thinking if you held the button long enough, or if you paused long enough.

2. most of the combos are almost useless in 1v1 because the thing you're trying to kill is already dead after the first 2 hits.

My solution for them:

Step 1. instead of the pause combo button (which completely breaks the fast paced flow of the game) replace it with "R". You dont use that key in melee mode so R would be a great alt attack for melee. The "hold" combos are also some of the worst because thats basically the same as pause. It doesnt fit in the game. Have that replaced by the 2nd alt attack button "F". I dont think f is used for anything... But thats it. Don't have more than 3 attack buttons. And finally the one requiring you to hold right mouse button is just such a useless way to make a combo. because you just have to start off by holding the right mouse for the whole time while pressing attack. But with 3 alt attack buttons, it shouldn't be a problem to make a combo.

Of course, it doesn't have to be exactly how I made it, but changes like this would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Thats step 1. Make the combos easy and fast to pull off.

 

Step 2. Most of the combos kill an enemy after the first hit or two. And theres almost no way of changing that. So make combos, the ideal thing to go to when you have 3 or 4 enemies at once. They shouldn't focus on 1 single enemy. So make them all have some way of an aoe (an explosion would be a good start, because you can't just change the animations to all the weapons.)

 

-------------------------------------

A side note.

If you ever do add alt attack buttons, I feel like it would be really nice if you press e to swing one way, and the other button (lets say "r") to swing the opposite way. And then the 3rd alt attack button could be a slower but a bit stronger attack. (BUT. not like charge attacks. Just a heaver hit)

 

And one final thing... just a personal preferance, would be to make the combos actually "Flashy". Flashy as in just add some cool effects and particles and things.

I don't know about this if most people would like it, so just post in the comments if you do or dont support flashy combos.

But I really hope melee combos are actually used in game.

 

 

 

 

 

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASSSE reply to this thread to keep it alive if you agree with even one thing. (Say what you dont agree with in the reply). Dont just +1 this and move on.

Curious to know how you feel about this...

 

Combo String System(Using The Reload Button) - A Better Combo System Even With Or Without Charge Attacks

[SoulEchelon]

Ugh okay, I had to facepalm the second I read the title of this thread.

 

Take too much concentration!? Really? You mean to tell me you don't have enough synapses sparking in your mind to be able to slightly delay your finger at a particular moment, or hold a button at the right time? Has this gaming generation degenerated this much? My God...

 

As for "not worth doing", while some combos are agreeably wonky, there are far too many currently available that are thousands of times better to do than the basic attack. One of the whip combos, a very simple E E delay E E can clear any enemies around you in a surprisingly large perimeter. Same for Crushing Ruin, which has a combo that's just as easy to do and is INSANELY powerful with the right weapon/mods (Jat Kittag anyone?) These are just a small few that spit in the face of your title.

 

"Oh but everything dies in one hit!" Sure they do when you have an already powerful weapon. Look at most of the combos: They're tailor made to have you go from one enemy to another, while other combos are extremely heavy hitting and have powerful final attacks - perfect for heavies that have tons of HP. Just because you don't know how to use these combos effectively does not mean they aren't effective.

 

And sorry, but I'm kind of sick of S#&amp;&#036; getting dumbed down and easymode'd. I like that combos force you to actually be at least a LITTLE engaged in what you're doing. It's not DE or anyone else's fault if you refuse to learn how to count your clicks and time your attacks.

[Jinryusai]

And sorry, but I'm kind of sick of S#&$ getting dumbed down and easymode'd. I like that combos force you to actually be at least a LITTLE engaged in what you're doing. It's not DE or anyone else's fault if you refuse to learn how to count your clicks and time your attacks.

When you count them, you notice that you click more than you have to or less to actually do the combo, this is not like Vindictus or Devil May Cry when button presses are consistent, it's all over the place depending on speed made worse by speed powers. Once you increase tat speed, number of clicks to do a combo is affected.

 

The slower the more clicks, the faster, the less clicks.

 

So that is what he means by concentration.

 

This easy mode you speak of would correct this guessing game you must do to perform combos. It also depends on the speed of yur clicks which are heavily affected by a tough situation.

 

So until this is corrected, this system is terrible.

 

Then there is latency.

 

You can swing at air and get it right every time, but when you swing at enemies, there is lots of room for error and well...You are STILL swinging at air, even if you HIT the enemy, it feels that way. There Is no feel to the impact.

 

So in the end, this game does not support timed attacks well, it can stay in but an alternative is needed for others, after all, you should not give a damn how easy others have it when you yourself still do it the hard way by choice. It's all about options.

 

So the system is "wonky" and that's that...

[jjpdn]

When you count them, you notice that you click more than you have to or less to actually do the combo, this is not like Vindictus or Devil May Cry when button presses are consistent, it's all over the place depending on speed made worse by speed powers. Once you increase tat speed, number of clicks to do a combo is affected.

 

The slower the more clicks, the faster, the less clicks.

 

So that is what he means by concentration.

 

This easy mode you speak of would correct this guessing game you must do to perform combos. It also depends on the speed of yur clicks which are heavily affected by a tough situation.

 

So until this is corrected, this system is terrible.

 

Then there is latency.

 

You can swing at air and get it right every time, but when you swing at enemies, there is lots of room for error and well...You are STILL swinging at air, even if you HIT the enemy, it feels that way. There Is no feel to the impact.

 

So in the end, this game does not support timed attacks well, it can stay in but an alternative is needed for others, after all, you should not give a damn how easy others have it when you yourself still do it the hard way by choice. It's all about options.

 

So the system is "wonky" and that's that...

Well, what I hate is the it's hard to judge the distance between you and the enemy before you hit them.

So, I keep missing with the Dragon Nikana (without range mod).

[shut]

Disagree.

Not with the fact that combos are clunky to pull off, but with your attempt at a solution for them. We sure as hell do NOT need three separate buttons to swing a damn sword. If games like Vindictus allow the player to pull off tons of unique intricate combos with two keys, I'm sure we can figure out a two-button or one-button way to do a couple basic swing patterns. Three buttons is a gigantic no-no, since it ruins mouse-based gameplay that many players use.

What we need is some more use of our Block key. Perhaps treat it as a secondary swing button of sorts, and revert to the usual blocking mechanics a split second after the last swing was performed? (So the variety of combos can increase like crazy with a mouse-friendly two-button system, and blocking stays nice and functional?)

Since a two-button system is unlikely to ever happen, though, I think that it would best to tweak our current system by finding a way to trigger combos WITHOUT OUR WASD KEYS. Seriously, some stances are literally unusable for players who disabled the "attack in the direction of the camera" option.

Edited September 18, 2014 by SortaRandom