Vastaren Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 (edited) I have managed to not find a feedback megathread on this, but if there is, I'm perfectly happy for my posts to be merged into one.I know I usually type a crapload of text, so I've split it up into sections and spoilers, and personal constructive suggestions (cause I'm not completely negative) are marked with asterisks (*). There's a lot, I find, to talk about, but don't get me wrong - if I sound harsher than I should be, I probably am, and I don't pretend to or expect to represent any significant portion of the playerbase.Abstract So... I've just taken a break from Warframe for tonight. 12 consecutive Operation Gate Crash missions is, evidently, more than I can comfortably handle for one night, but this is really the first time I'm having second thoughts on pushing the extra 3 missions for a free weapon.DE, what happened? We were going great with progress on the Excavation missions! I personally found the Cryotic Front event a big step forwards in terms of promoting teamwork and communication, focussing players on objectives which were made thematically relevant, and rewarding players for effort spent participating rather than effort spent grinding. It was fun without forcing players to alter gear, challenging without it being contrived, and overall a great experience for me because I wanted to do well in each and every mission I went on.Operation Gate Crash is, in my honest opinion, a sad step back from all that good stuff. Event Structure So, probably the most standout drawback to this event is the fact that you're not really rewarded for participating in the mission. You're rewarded for being there. Yes, you get the other rewards if you open the caches, vaults, etc, but those were never the intention of the event. To officially have it recognised as one point either way doesn't encourage active participation in the event at all. In Operation Cryotic Front, teamwork of a scale rarely seen outside clan squads was actively encouraged, in no small part due to the nature of the reward. Not so here. Being rewarded points based not on effort, but on number of times you can click into a mission and rush through is a poor substitute for player engagement.Another large factor in why I personally wasn't impressed was the attempt at substituting enemy scaling for player limiting. Okay. Others might find it challenging in a fun sort of way to have powers and survivability reduced without knowing by how much, or necessarily how to compensate, and I'll admit, I was surprised in a surprised sort of way. It quickly grew tiring, though, because it again essentially boiled down to a gear check near the end. People were taking weapons not necessarily because they wanted to, but because the mission demanded it due to negation of abilities and lowered survivability. I see it as a new direction, which might work in some instances, but here, it's just another take on numerical scaling. Like the Tactical Alerts, but giving players less of a choice to that extent.*I'd like to see a return to working on more engaging ways to 'score' and reward players rather than keep track of the number of missions run. Excavation from Cryotic Front was a great advance, and I would hate for it to be the exception rather than the rule. Maybe we could try small steps like what we had with Rescue 2.0, even, with the number of reward caches located contributing to an overall mission score. Mission Structure The mission structure itself was - I found - fairly disorganised and poorly related to. Sure, there were waypoints and objectives, just like any other mission, but the explanation and the way we were meant to interpret it in the context of the mission itself left a lot to be desired. 'Go here. Hack generators twice (why twice? It seems a bit redundant gameplay-wise). Head through the portal. Kill two absolutely random pseudo-bosses. Pick up a key. Destroy the "torsion beam generator" with the key. Head to extraction'. It just all seems very convoluted for the (too?) brief explanations we're given. Is there really any reason to have this number of steps you needed to walk us through? Half the time I was with other players on Phobos, they still had no idea what they were doing or more importantly, why. Maybe reconsidering how complicated these missions should be (especially with the resource cache bar at the top contributing nothing to mission progress) would help alleviate some of the ambiguity and confusion. It just seemed like a disjointed amalgamation of the defining traits of Mobile Defense, Exterminate, and Assassination, but with little of the cohesion.The resource caches were presented more of a distraction than anything relevant to the mission itself. While yes, it would encourage a reasonable amount of exploration, it just didn't make sense in the context of the mission itself, and largely served - in my experience - to prolong the amount of time spent in a mission on a 'side-quest' which was unrelated to the combat-heavy objective itself. Many times the squad I was with would split up, half going for caches, and the other half going for the objective, but sending half the squad on a goose-chase all over the map while the other half try and get through seems counterproductive to encouraging teamwork.*At least with Cryotic Front, splitting the team was done strategically, for the benefit of efficiency when one person stays at the scanner, and the other three defend the excavators. Maybe making the caches more relevant to the mission would help in terms of proportionate group contributions, if that was really the intended purpose of having them there. Lore I was at uni when I looked up the forums in some spare time I had. I must have let out a squeak or a gasp as I read about Vay Hek's latest nefarious scheme, cause people around me looked at me funny for a second. He's always been one of the most developed villains in my imagination. He's developed enough for me to dislike and respect at the same time as the personification of Grineer transhumanism. So I was left hanging when I didn't see him make an appearance at all during the event. No mention was given to him outside the first message the Lotus gives us. The event, from a lore standpoint, is fairly shallow and unfulfilling. What's the real story here, and why do I feel a bit left out of it?I then discovered the two Grineer females. And I was stunned and somewhat jealous of their beauty, poise, and how jarring their inclusion kinda seemed. What information is given on them? Why do they have the void key we're supposed to take? Why are they here? Their appearance wasn't exactly a 'WTF' moment, but it was one thing that really knocked the immersion out of me. No Codex lore on them makes them a bit of a sore thumb to be honest - an addition for the sake of addition, and with health/armor scaling to go with it. I'm a bit divided on their abilities (that pseudo-Slash-Dash thing, their weird invulnerability phases, their jetpacking), which seem pretty poorly synergistic when you think about it, but make for an interesting encounter nonetheless.*Maybe we should flesh out the lore a bit more before adding in seeming non-sequiturs and hand-wave parts of it to keep it 'mysterious', which I actually just find pointlessly vague. I would love to see something as simple as updated Codex entries, which would make a ton of difference for these two ladies. Rewards Then we get to the rewards. The badge I have no qualms with, simply because it's... a badge. No hard feelings, but you're in a category of your own to me, buddy.But the mods... Oh wow. Is more % min-maxing what we need from a mod system already revolving and stagnating around that? What happened to considering this, or this, or this? Were there too many options to choose from that we had to fall back on good old Physical Damage to follow up on the Elemental Dual Stat mods? Do we need more damage to keep up with enemy scaling to keep up with damage, which is the routine that dominates a lot of the progression in Warframe? I'm just not convinced these mods - even given how situational they are - are the best idea we could have gone with for developing an integral part of the game, but that's not my call to make.*Perhaps diversifying our combat system be introducing a few tamer suggestions from the links above would do more for a greater part of the community than min-maxers? I'd like to see more options become viable for players looking not for higher damage numbers, but a more dynamic combat experience.I don't have the Sheev yet, but feel free to leave opinions below and tell me to go for it for the sake of its stats and gameplay, or not. A Ray of Light? Despite all that, I really do appreciate the commitment of the devs and the staff team to providing us content to keep us interested. Despite my criticism, I do see the value in releasing an event to keep the community engaged, and while this does it in a manner sub-par to most other events I've participated in, it's certainly delivered with no less enthusiasm and suspense as others. It's a great way to hype up players for an upcoming Archwing U15, even if the connection isn't all that solid, and if it were meant as a filler, it has certainly fulfilled its purpose, releasing new mods and a weapon reward.Also of note is that I honestly think that the multitude of concepts presented in this event could work quite well independently of each other. Having reward caches stashed around maps is a great way to encourage exploration and level appreciation, as well as shifting the focus somewhat from a rush to a journey. Having mini-bosses as a repetition-breaker is a good-ish way to encourage teamwork and combat adaptation. But together, and presented in the format it has been? Conclusion(tl;dr) Any DE event is always worth the login and the involvement, and this one is, while a bit disappointing compared to previous ones, no exception. Don't get me wrong, I'd recommend it if only for the sake of the experience once or twice to remind ourselves that missions can be slightly different to survival/defense. Doing this event with friends and clanmates certainly helps the boredom if you have someone named Vastaren on the squad ready to talk about inconsequential, vaguely funny things, but to focus on the event itself requires a high level of dedication to get through and remain happy with the end result.The presentation of the event and its potential, however, are overshadowed by flaws in design - in particular, how the event's rewards system is structured which favors grind over active participation, how the missions themselves are structured in an often needlessly complicated way, how the lore is a bit thin and ambiguous as to how it all ties in, and how the rewards leave a lot to be desired in terms of innovation and utility.I'm sorry, DE. I hate being an overall negative on these forums, but I felt I should let you know. Edit:This should be linked. Goes into a bit more detail about specifics too.A bit more relevant feedback on the grind aspect. Don't think I'm only posting views that align with my own here, but it's what I can find.More detailed feedback on objectives and relevance, and the use of hard-limiting players.Expanding on the potential of Grineer Resource Caches.More on nerfing frames and frame powers in regards to the event.Feedback detailing how someone feels the event has also been a disappointment.Specifically on the event scaling system.Feedback on the capped difficulty of Gate Crash and what it means for the leaderboards.An easy-to-read take on the mod rewards.Concise points about several aspects of the event.zennok's take on it, with a Breeding Grounds comparison.A suggestion on alleviating the gate camping issue.A few more brief thoughts on the current event.An event pseudo-megathread.Three points of feedback on why the event was bad. More detailed feedback on why the event was not enjoyable, with a couple suggestions for improvement. A brief rant on grinding. Why someone thinks the event wasn't worth the time nor effort. A very brief overall feedback thread. Okay... so the forum population have made a fair number of threads detailing an overall negative outlook on Operation Gate Crash. I don't know how much of the sentiment extends to the overall population, but I think it's fair to assume the outspoken on the forums account for a majority of the playerbase statistically. I started linking these threads with the disclaimer that I wasn't cherry-picking threads to support my views, but the number of them that actually provide genuine, personal feedback that is overall negative is staggering. I really hope you read these, DE, and take into account suggestions posed by rationally dissatisfied players.A large oversight and consideration on my part when analysing the event structure brought up by Variatas, and my take on the consequences of such a thing: [...] With Cryotic Front, which I really enjoyed, I spent far more time re-running the mission to help other people than it took me to earn it myself. I'm sitting on like 100,000 Cryo, after contributing tens of thousands to my Clan's research.My experience was that by 13 or 14 exposure, all of my frame's abilities were so nerfed in range, duration, and strength that there was simply no point to using them. [...] I basically could have unslotted them all and stuffed as much anything else I could in instead, except there really wasn't anything that would have helped. With health and shields so restricted, I didn't see any point to trying another frame that didn't have a giant Armor value to stretch things further; without any abilities to support them, they'd just die even faster.So with Exposure nerfing my frame so hard, I simply cannot run the event mission to help other people out; because I've already run it so many times, I'd just be hammered by the penalties. Having thought about it, I... find this to be a really backwards way of doing an event. Warframe gameplay is in no small part founded on cooperation, and as you point out, this actively discourages players from helping each other through it if they've already completed the event. Sure, the difficulty stops scaling after exposure 15, but by then abilities are severely impeded across the board. While in Breeding Grounds, higher enemy scaling was counteracted by a higher score, there is no benefit to running a mission with someone with 20+ exposure points over someone fresh with 0. We are now a thing on the latest Community Hot Topics thread! Personal feelings aside, I hope people don't feel put off by my first post, and continue to keep honest feedback coming so that DE can work to improve on their stuff! Edited September 26, 2014 by Vastaren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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