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A Bit Of Operation Gate Crash Feedback, With Links To More


Vastaren
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I had one or two missions, when a few Infested wandered in through the back door and started to attack the terminal. A single leaper, however, doesn't pose a serious threat to it (other than e.g. a Lancer).

I get the feeling this wasn't directly intentional though, or at least a warranted consideration. The design itself is the target of my snobbish displeasure, though yeah, my phrasing was a bit off there.

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I loved in the missions, how exploration was finally rewarded.

There were still people who didn't like to explore, but it was nice to finally have searching be worth it.

 

It would be nice if that could be brought over to more missions, of course there would be less / no pointers IF there is a reward somewhere, and I guess there would also be smaller rewards, but if thats brought into more missions it is definitly worth it,

 

I now know most secret rooms of the Orokin Derelict, that can be checked, as a nice side effect.

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Personally this has been my favorite event so far. To me it's clear, straightforward, different, and fun. I can solo it. I get to fight the infested, grineer, and orokin all in the same mission, meaning I have to equip my weapons smartly. One of my favorite tilesets, the derelicts, are getting some love from this and I don't have to craft keys in order to get in to them.

This was a huge favorite of mine versus that awful drilling event. That event was just flat out impossible, and far to difficult to be reasonable. Took my ice mods, and left. No one should be forced to grind that violently, and push themselves to stay in a mission that long.

 

However the Gate Crash was perfect. It was easy. It was not painful, or made you sit in a mission for nearly an hour just to get everything rewarded. Just... UGH that Cryotic mission WAS BAD... That was just... SO so... BAD... Never again should DE make people sit in a mission for more than an hour. I can do hundreds of missions with breaks in between, but not one long shot mission of baby sitting drills. Gate Crash doesn't have you doing that. Its ignore useless caches, and defend two consoles, and then finally do something awesome such as taking the fight to the Grineer with a neat new mechanic such as gates, and fighting interesting unique enemies which I think should be something the Eximus should take after instead of just fancy abilities. This was one of the best just behind the all out war of Mars. Plus not hard. The whole weakening of the Warframe is what REALLY brings out the truly elite skill of a player. Someone like me can take the entire situation and show my skill. Other players simply sat in awe when I was doing my 15th point as they all died around me. True skill isn't in your load out. Its what you can do with the situation at the point in time. Not over some absurdly long period of time that no one should suffer from that is terribly boring, and mind numbingly hard like the Cryotic event.

 

I demand more events that use skill over builds. I can't make the best builds in the game that do red crits, or kill everyone with shear ease, but I can take what I have and make something of it. Making enemies too hard makes the game in general too hard and impossible. However making the player weaker, and forcing them against odds that are normally easy (with fancy builds) allowing the player to show off their true skill, and not their artificial skill through their builds is where a player passes from being the strongest to Legend...

Edited by Arlayn
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Geez, [DE]Drew. Right when I was feeling like letting go of this thread as a lost cause. Thanks heaps for making me continue to check this thread :)

 

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I really liked the exploration element in Operation Gate Crash too, it's definitely something I feel should be added. However, I'm not a fan of how it was poorly synergistic with actual mission objectives, and that would have to be something to be addressed.

 

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Indeed it did. The way I see it, removing a core gameplay element for the sake of challenge only serves to highlight shortcomings in how frames were designed - if difficulty is introduced only when we don't have anything to use them for, what does that say about the state of the game?

 

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I recognise that 'grind' is pretty dependent upon what players deem to be more valuable to them - effort or time, or both. I can see where people would have felt that Cryotic Front was more 'grindy' than Gate Crash in that points scored were based on one-off mission scores and it could be tricky for soloers or less proficient/dedicated teams, but I saw it as a good way to promote teamwork and reward players for effort spent ingame, rather than time spent ingame, and I find that the mark of a good event when DE engages players to that level. Maybe that crucial distinction will mean we can never see eye-to-eye on this one :(

 

And oh sure, the mission structure of Gate Crash was different. Where I see it as convoluted and a bit contrived at points, you see it as dynamic and engaging, and I can understand that part. I totally agree the two bosses were definitely a change-up from normal combat, and I'd like to see more of them too. Also, "useless caches"? I think that points out how flawed their implementation was.

 

However, I'd most strongly disagree with how "the whole weakening of the Warframe is what REALLY brings out the truly elite skill of a player."

 

I see "true elite skill" (in the sense that I think you're using) as how players adapt to the situation to complete an objective using all their faculties, situationally balanced warframe abilities included. Doing what you can with the situation you're in is fine. But when the situation is forced such that one or more of your faculties are down - imagine your ranged weapons are made useless - it's not an indicator of skill. It's just an indicator of how much players can deal with forced disadvantage and an obvious shortcoming in the design of the whole warframe thing, and that's the subtle difference I see here.

 

Warframe survivability and abilities define the warframe. To remove a core gameplay element and laud players on their ability to rely solely on gunplay and movement isn't a holistic way of evaluating 'skill' in Warframe. Sure, players might have taken it as an opportunity to move more, react faster, or play smarter, but on the other hand, they could just bring the biggest gun they had and go all out, and this is also what happens in endless scaling with enemies being numerically buffed immensely such that powers are for the most part ineffectual. Forcing reliance on gunplay isn't forcing reliance on skill - using your warframe it its fullest potential is just as important to being 'skilled'.

 

I agree that events should reward skill over builds, and I can certainly see why many use 'gunplay' and 'skill' interchangeably, given how for the most part, frames are made to have skills which trivialise enemy design. But I just can't seem to reconcile your definition of skill with mine. Making enemies harder and making players weaker are just two sides of the same coin, really. Both intentionally place the player at a disadvantage, and neither actively require 'skill' to be employed the way I see it.

 

+1, though, for a really interesting perspective on the way challenge and valuation of 'skill' is presented in Warframe :)

Edited by Vastaren
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IMO, they were trying the "buff enemy Nerf you" thing too hard. It was still enjoyable in the tactical alert context, where for once your sicarus may finally see the light of action coz u formaed ur Boltor prime too much (but seriously, those alerts were fun). But when they decided to Nerf players so bad Loki needs to stand next to someone to switch teleport with him (for example), and u can't survive for nuts, I actually started to appreciate stamina 1.0 and even ulti nukers (respect dropped back to 0 on the missions later) coz it hit too damn hard.

But to digress, the OLDER missions, like the informant event, or arid fear, where a collective quota had to be reached, also sounds more feasible in today's context where u have a week to finish the quota, though it might be too much to squeeze together with, say, tactical alerts.

PM me if u reply/expect a reply/etc, else i'll be busy farming prime parts or mindlessly tikal-ing

Edited by jwya
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It was still enjoyable in the tactical alert context, where for once your sicarus may finally see the light of action coz u formaed ur Boltor prime too much (but seriously, those alerts were fun).

Indeed. I, too, liked the tactical alert much better, because you actually had a choice. You could decide to only take a melee weapon and fully rely on your abilities for ranged combat. Or you could leave your maxed Redirection/Vitality at home and instead put some extra damage in your rifle to make up for your squishy-ness. You could switch frames between runs and try different loadouts, because it made a difference.

By the time I hit Ceres in Operation Gate Crash, all frames were equally useless regarding their powers. So the best choice was to switch to a tanky frame, mod for some extra tanky-ness and just take your best weapons with you.

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