Cryotic Front Was A Step In The Right Direction, But This...

[Hueminator]

 Idea wise I think this event is pretty good.  Many people ask for mixed objective missions like mobile defense with capture and sabotage etc.  I think you get a combination of those in this event.  Mobile Defense (The terminal) => Capture/Assassination (kill those 2 mob and get the stuff) => Deception (deliver the void key and run).  However, I think this event feels meh because of the waiting phase while reversing polarity of void portal.  Imo we should also have massive infestation trying to break out and you are caught in between instead of melee the portal.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Hueminator

[Brynslustafir]

 

 

again if you dont think its worth the effort... then just dont do it

 

i liked the event it was a challenge and thats what i want out of a game...

You're making a bunch of asssumptions with no evidence to back them up. 

I LOVE challenge. Proper challenge. Like DMC3 of Son of Sparda difficulty or MGR on Revengeance. 

Not this. 

[Brynslustafir]

Ok, so far my original post has roughly twice as many likes as the highest scoring negative replies. 

I guess we know where the community stands on this. It always feels good to get the majority vote. 

Edited September 19, 2014 by Plasmaface

[Brynslustafir]

Im a veteran player and I completely disagree. It made the missions hard and challenging which in turn made it more fun to plan out your kit. You are saying this was repetitive when Cryotic Front was literally the exact same thing. You talk about underwhelming rewards when if you actually take the time to look for the caches you can get some awesome rewards, the Sheeve is a very interesting dagger with a Very good status chance. This event had way more gameplay variety then many events/operations before it. I read your post and personally I think you are literally just complaining for the sake of complaining.

Then I suggest you read more carefully this time. 

 

Or perhaps you simply don't understand.

Either way, it's not my problem. 

Edited September 19, 2014 by Plasmaface

[Xana_Skullsunder]

yea Cryotic was kinda fun... but way too easy... at least this event brought some challenge into the game

 

 

just becous YOU dont want to be challenged dont mean that everyone feels the same way

 

and you do know that the operation is OPTIANEL... so if you dont like it dont play it and stop whining about it

 

 

again if you dont think its worth the effort... then just dont do it

 

i liked the event it was a challenge and thats what i want out of a game...

 

 

1- It's 'Optional', dammit.

2- Events are often the only new content we'll get for a while. OP has every right to deliver whatever feedback he or she wishes regarding it.

[Arabaxus]

Gimping players by negating their mods and then throwing them into a high level mission is a prefect example of artificial difficulty. 

A proper challenge faces the player with an obstacle that they have to use their skills to overcome. A good challenge can add difficulty without weakening the player, but by introducing something new to keep things interesting.  

A cool new enemy type could have accomplished this, or even just an interesting level gimick that keeps players on their toes. 

 

I don't need to re-evaluate anything. 

 

If by gimping players you mean making them not able to cheese the event with Hysteria/Invisibility/Smoke Screen/Iron Skin then sure buddy.

 

Warframe's forum community:

 

>Handed an event you can cheese: "Wow this is too easy you can just cheese it with abilities"

>Finally handed an event you can't cheese: "Wow this is just gimping me I can't cheese it anymore it must be artificial difficulty"

 

Seriously, decide what you want already.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Arabaxus

[armedpoop]

You're calling increasing enemy damage output a good innovation for difficulty and reducing duration/strength/range on abilities while keeping them usable, forcing you to come up with new ways to make them useful, artificial difficulty?

 

I think you ought to re-evaluate your statement buddy.

If having a power strength build rhino prime getting its iron skin shot off in one hit, AND having a max vit and redirection means having less than 500 total health and shields isnt artificial difficulty, than you are crazy. Theres no reason my mods should be ignored when I make it to ceres. THAT is not fun. Thats artificial difficulty. Its literally ignoring anything you worked for. Not to mention your shield recharge rate is gimped on top of all of this. To the point that it might as well not even exist.

 

Opinions.

 

I found it rather fun and I'm still grinding out runs just for cache rewards. And regardless of the stats on the dagger (which is getting an attack speed buff) it looks amazing (imo).

The new knife is crazy awesome looking. But the speed is abysmal right now. Waiting on the speed buff.

[Brynslustafir]

If by gimping players you mean making them not able to cheese the event with Hysteria/Invisibility/Smoke Screen/Iron Skin then sure buddy.

 

Warframe's forum community:

 

>Handed an event you can cheese: "Wow this is too easy you can just cheese it with abilities"

>Finally handed an event you can't cheese: "Wow this is just gimping me I can't cheese it anymore it must be artificial difficulty"

 

Seriously, decide what you want already.

I already know what I want. Events with interesting mechanics. Not the same same boring, tedious mission over and over again.

 

If you still don't understand, I'm pretty sure extra credits has a good video about artificial difficulty. I highly reccomend it, and all of their videos. 

Edited September 19, 2014 by Plasmaface

[Vastaren]

If by gimping players you mean making them not able to cheese the event with Hysteria/Invisibility/Smoke Screen/Iron Skin then sure buddy.

 

Warframe's forum community:

 

>Handed an event you can cheese: "Wow this is too easy you can just cheese it with abilities"

>Finally handed an event you can't cheese: "Wow this is just gimping me I can't cheese it anymore it must be artificial difficulty"

 

Seriously, decide what you want already.

I agree that we shouldn't use the explicit label of 'artificial difficulty' by a loose definition here, but neither do I like the implications of using such a system present in the event to force challenge onto players. I think the first part of this post captures my thoughts on it. It's an interesting system that could work, but I honestly see it as negating frame choice, leading to an overreliance on gunplay, and that's not something I necessarily want.

 

Neither do I think we should be so quick to dismiss the back-and-forth discourse of constructive feedback on the forums. It's not like we can tell the world to adopt democracy on a whim when cultural and psychological differences fundamentally set groups of people apart. Less dramatic, but same thing here.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Vastaren

[Ventura_Highway]

I disagree.

 

Whole thing took me less than fifty minutes to do, and it was mostly incredibly easy.

The only time i was remotely trying was the bosses, because they could actually kill me.

 

Which is a good thing!

 

Were you trying to tank the bullets or something?

[armedpoop]

yea Cryotic was kinda fun... but way too easy... at least this event brought some challenge into the game

 

 

just becous YOU dont want to be challenged dont mean that everyone feels the same way

 

and you do know that the operation is OPTIANEL... so if you dont like it dont play it and stop whining about it

 

 

again if you dont think its worth the effort... then just dont do it

 

i liked the event it was a challenge and thats what i want out of a game...

Artificaial difficulty =/= challenge

 

If by gimping players you mean making them not able to cheese the event with Hysteria/Invisibility/Smoke Screen/Iron Skin then sure buddy.

 

Warframe's forum community:

 

>Handed an event you can cheese: "Wow this is too easy you can just cheese it with abilities"

>Finally handed an event you can't cheese: "Wow this is just gimping me I can't cheese it anymore it must be artificial difficulty"

 

Seriously, decide what you want already.

Generalizing a majority of players isnt even fair.

There are people out there who say things are too easy and dont cheese them. 

[Brynslustafir]

I disagree.

 

Whole thing took me less than fifty minutes to do, and it was mostly incredibly easy.

The only time i was remotely trying was the bosses, because they could actually kill me.

 

Which is a good thing!

 

Were you trying to tank the bullets or something?

I never said that I died a lot. however, I did see a lot of other players gatting downed by a single hit from a charger. That seems a bit excessive. Especially since Warframes janky parkour can get you into some really unfortunate situations, particularly in levels with complex geometry like the derelicts. 

Edited September 19, 2014 by Plasmaface

[Eric1738]

i'm ok with artificial difficulties, but this event is back to the grind more win more concept. cryotic front at least required teamplay and some thinking of tactics. so ya, it seems this event is into a wrong direction.

[Brynslustafir]

i'm ok with artificial difficulties, but this event is back to the grind more win more concept. cryotic front at least required teamplay and some thinking of tactics. so ya, it seems this event is into a wrong direction.

I forgot to mention tactics in my original post... crap.

Oh well. Either way, Cryotic front was still more enjoyable despite the ease. 

Edited September 19, 2014 by Plasmaface

[Ventura_Highway]

I never said that I died a lot. however, I did see a lot of other players gatting downed by a single hit from a charger. That seems a bit excessive. Especially since Warframes janky parkour can get you into some really unfortunate situations, particularly in levels with complex geometry like the derelicts. 

 

For what it matters i was running a volt with the maximum possible amount of shielding, but I never managed to get one-shotted.

The only instance during which I had trouble was the last run, but that one was one in which the fellow I was running with managed to

find reasons to AFK. Over, and over again.

 

What i feel with regards to getting one-shotted by chargers, is that even getting hit by a charger is, for me, rather rare unless I directly cause it.

The infested in general, aside from that infested drone, don't really seem to actually be able to get within range of an attack, and execute their attack successfully while i am in range. Getting one-shotted is kinda awful, you are correct, but I would like to note that if there need be some sort

of solution to this, it is that the chargers suffer a minor loss in damage, rather than being completely neutered.

[R34LM]

What this event did was put a kink in players who rely entirely on health and shield stats as well as abilities to defend themselves, which, I argue, is a pretty hefty percentage. If you knew how to maneuver away from trouble, which you essentially had to do towards the end, you proabably didn't feel a thing. But for players who rely on defenses from mods, like me, you weren't too happy with the event.

 

Your point of view of the event is probably the same as the response to this: as they grow stronger and vast in number, you get weaker and are near defenseless.

 

I didn't like the event, but only because I don't rely on moving around fast enough to avoid fire most of the time. I switched to that style in the end (rhino with no abilities, speed, what I could do for health and shields, armor) and it felt weird, but it got the job done.

 

Repetiveness doesn't affect me so much, but it did for this, mainly because of the exposure mechanics.

 

I can see vaild arguments on both sides. It's just a matter of what is your cup of tea. For me, personally, I just didn't like how harsh it got towards the end.............and the shiny bugs got annoying...but thats for a different section.

 

EDIT: Might want to change out "event" to "operation" in this post.

Edited September 19, 2014 by R34LM

[ClockworkSpectre]

I loved cryotic front and yes I agree it was a step in the right direction, and I can't wait for the game mode to be made permanent.  But, Gate Breach is an Operation, not an event.  In other words it is not supposed to introduce much of anything new, honestly I'm surprised it has anything new at all.  It is a lead up to the event that will come out with U15, I think people have expectations set way to high for these between event Operations.  I am happy that they are doing SOMETHING, and not just making us wait until the next full event.  It wasn't the most fun operation, and it could have used some tweaking, but it is better than nothing.  I am happy that DE is moving towards having more events/operations etc, even if they have a ways to go in refining it. 

Edited September 19, 2014 by ClockworkSpectre

[Brynslustafir]

I loved cryotic front and yes I agree it was a step in the right direction, and I can't wait for the game mode to be made permanent.  But, Gate Breach is an Operation, not an event.  In other words it is not supposed to introduce much of anything new, honestly I'm surprised it has anything new at all.  It is a lead up to the event that will come out with U15, I think people have expectations set way to high for these between event Operations.  I am happy that they are doing SOMETHING, and not just making us wait until the next full event.  It wasn't the most fun event, and it could have used some tweeking, but it is better than nothing.  I am happy that DE is moving towards having more events/operations etc, even if they have ways to go in refining it. 

No, it's an event. 

[Divinity112]

I agree with OP. Like I said with the tactical alerts if I wanted to gimp myself, I'd play with my pinkies.

[Wurdyburd]

While OP does offer many valid points, all of them true, we need to evaluate this from both sides. Rarely is anything, if ever, considered "good" or "bad".
It just happens that the people who declare things "good" rarely have anything to say clarifying their position.

 

First; the Cryotic event WAS GOOD. Even if it was easy, it was fun, which was the important thing. It's the only event out of all of them in the history of Warframe that I legitimately enjoyed enough to run multiple times after receiving all the rewards, and I've been around since before there were events at all. Part of that is provided by a game mode that demands that you coordinate with your team to succeed at higher levels, and lets you feel out when you should stop, based on your success. Compare this to the Gate Crasher event: every mission is clear-cut :WIN: or :LOSE:, with nothing in between. You gain points cumulatively by having fifteen wins, and that's it. All you have to do is win fifteen times, compared to previous events, where your reward was determined by HOW MUCH you won by. This creates challenge, even if the reward levels were improperly tiered. Gate Crasher? Not challenge.

 

Edit: post sent before I was done

Secondly, there are elements of Gate Crasher that are good. The cache system is mildly entertaining, if a little tedious, because it forces you to explore, something that almost no other system or event in Warframe has you do. Despite what some say, %-decrease of frame stats does offer challenge, more so than if you were to just flood the level with high-level enemies, because those enemies might be far too strong for lesser-equipped players. If you decrease by percentage, at least everyone will be sort-of on par with each other. Also, if it was a matter of stronger enemies, the high-tier players could just equip their mini-nuke weaponry and succeed anyway; however, the lower-level players would be helpless. If you design the event for the lower levels to succeed at, you have the higher levels complaining that it's too easy. Therefore, %-decrease is at least a little reasonable.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Wurdyburd

[-CM-Zennok]

OP covered pretty much what i said in another post (darn it).

 

For those of you who're saying this is an operation, i'll just say that ops don't have clan leaderboards and rewards....events do.

 

If it weren't for this, I think this event wouldn't be so daunting because, if you're in a competitive clan, you wouldn't be urged to do this mission alot....which is mostly what I hate about it.

[Vastaren]

The cache system is mildly entertaining, if a little tedious, because it forces you to explore, something that almost no other system or event in Warframe has you do.

The problem is that the cache system is simply not relevant to the mission, and it doesn't 'force' exploration either way. If we were looking at this inclusion from a standard mission perspective it'd be fine, but for an event, it's missed the mark. It's more a distraction than an aid to mission progression, and its random spawning was probably why a few would think it tedious. I'm not against it as an idea but it's been a bit poorly executed imo.

 

I think this sums up how I feel about forced stat decreases:

I don't like this difficulty system DE has in this event. I build awesome mod layouts to push the boundaries, then have my abilities tested, not have them removed.

By stripping away power range/duration/shielding/etc, it makes me feel weak. I like a challenge, but I like to fight enemies who are stronger than me, not make myself useless so I can't even fight the low levels and make my abilities lose all functionality

Taking away the choice players have is challenge, but it's a pretty contentious way to do it. I'm not in favor of it over, say, intelligent enemy design or original and creatively scripted encounters.

 

But the problem was that it forced a reliance on weaponry. Sure, it may have tried to get us to focus on compensating for survivability, I can see where you're coming from in regards to that, but all too often I saw this just led to tanking by way of dealing damage before the mobs fired back, and intuitively that would be the easiest way to deal with it.

[pokeyoface]

My opinion on this

 

From the first run on Eath to the last run on phobos I enjoyed it alot....Then I got to Ceres...Absolutely hated how tough it was to focus on one of the  mini-bosses without getting ROFLstomped by the other Grineer in the area not to mention the runs started taking a fair bit longer because Tail Wind (actually all of my abilities) were useless (well maybe not useless I mean 2 second Tornado is still slightly useful i guess) But there is one thing I still enjoy about the event and that is the treasure hunt part (and soloing the Earth bosses as revenge) which really let me appreciate the level design it's freakin' beautiful!

Edited September 19, 2014 by pokeyoface

[SoulEchelon]

I've noticed something.

 

Whenever DE introduced -ANY- kind of difficulty in -ANY- shape or form, people flock to the forums and scream that it's "artificial difficulty". Interesting.

 

As for the event, I'll just copy and paste what I said in another thread:

 

"I don't see what's bad about this event. While it's in essence the same "map", it gets progressively harder and harder. There's alot of challenge to it - even for those "master race" Lokis that just stack Invisibility duration since eventually your warframe gets too weak to use such tactics effectively.

 

Finally, DE made an event that couldn't be completely cheesed out by particular warframes (that I know of). That's pretty awesome in my book."

[Vastaren]

I've noticed something.

 

Whenever DE introduced -ANY- kind of difficulty in -ANY- shape or form, people flock to the forums and scream that it's "artificial difficulty". Interesting.

While I haven't labelled it as such, surely you can see that having powers and stats reduced by a large percentage isn't everyone's idea of 'fun'. The problem many have with this form of difficulty is that it's forced, and effectively nullifies the effects of many Warframe powers. Yes, it stops people from pressing 4 to win, but it's not their choice to make. They are forced into a situation of lower survivability, and while the situation itself might be challenging in a fun sort of way, it's not voluntary, and combined with 10-15 more repetitions, it's a grind to get through for the most part.

 

Neither would I generalise all the negative feedback we've seen on the event and its presentation of challenge to people screaming that it's 'artificially difficult'. It's a statistically ambiguous claim and really dismissive to people who can justify their arguments. There are more problems (I'll take down the link if you don't like it here) that I've noted in a subjective sense - and good things too - about the event than just that. I don't think reaction this event should be defined solely by the contentious issue of challenge here.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Vastaren