New Ember changes, the benchmark, and Warframe.

[Casval_Rouge]

Ember was underpowered before. Now it is worst. I cannot understand the logic behind the changes, I'm sorry.

1.Fireball. I'm not even going to go into what is wrong with this ability itself, I think we need to know just what is the benchmark here. Which first ability in this game is the balanced one here? What are they suppose to be able to achieve? Should it be able to kill mulitple weak to standard enemies in one use? Or should be able to kill 1 only? I think we need to establish that, to all ablities. Otherwise no one will know what is balanced and what is not. You could say Overload is balanced if that's what DE is meant fourth ability to be, and everything else is underpowered.

Yet if we look deeper into this route, we can see the problem is not that we don't know what the benchmark is, but what is fundamentally wrong with the class system in this game. Just what different Warframes to choose from means. Is it style or role that differentiate them. For those who don't know what the difference is. Role dictates what the Warframe is good at, and what he or she should be doing in a team environment. The holy trinty (Tank, DPS, Healer) is the classic example. Style on the other hand means each Warframe is capable of taking on any challenge but with their own twist and personality. A good example would be fighting games characters. They are different to play with, but they are equal in the sense that they are capable to knock out anyone in the right hands.

This game don't have a clear direction as to what they want the Warframes to be. On the surface, it would seem style is the one. But then we can see from the descriptions and actual abilities, that is not necessary the case.

Funny thing is, right now, to determine if a warframe is design with style or role in mind, just check their sex. Male = Style, Female = Roles. Excalibur, balanced warframe with mobility and offense. Volt, alternative damage dealing methods. Loki, a cunning warframe, uses decoy and invisibility. Then we look at the female ones. Mag = debuff, Ember = Crowd Control, Trinity = Healer.

I urge DE to pick one, and stick with it. They are mutually exclusive and should not be in the same game at the same time. In fact I think the game just lacks direction in general, but I'll leave that to another time, maybe they have something big in mind that haven't been added to the beta yet.

TL:DR Check the second last paragraph.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Casval_Rouge

[Sikab]

Ember was underpowered before. Now it is worst. I cannot understand the logic behind the changes, I'm sorry.

1.Fireball....

Where's number 2/3?

[omnissiah19]

ember is male actually

[Casval_Rouge]

Where's number 2/3?

There are no need for 2 and 3, thats the whole point of the post.

And no Ember is not male, the joke is getting old don't you think?

[Anacolada]

I totally agree with casval, ember's abilities must be reworked somehow.

[Aido-Hwedo]

ember is male actually

The bumps on the chest of the ember warframe i have beg to differ with you

[Vashramire]

And she is in the Female Warframe Pack bundle.

[Bang_Doll]

And worst of all they changed her model.

... OK, I'll stop now.

[KaptainKabi]

Now this is just my opinion I actually like the changes to Ember in the last update but I see her really strong against the infected.

Overheat was a little too costly for a skill that was like a poison armor but 50 energy isn't bad for a skill that has saved me from melee enemies. I used overheat and melee enemies just keep getting staggered and I'm safe to revive allies or take care of ranged enemies instead.

Fireball is actually a really nice skill. It doesn't burst through halls of enemies but since most the maps in warframes are hallways and doors I'd throw 1 fireball on the floor while we're rushed with infected they all run through it and I just sit back and watch them die while they try to get to me. Sure it doesn't take out Ancients but it takes out chargers, leapers and runners pretty well when a horde is rushing at me and my friends.

Fireblast has saved my life several times. In 1 run me and my friend were covered in 4-5 leapers and 5-10 chargers. I used fireblast and killed all the enemies without a problem.

World on fire I haven't used too much still trying that 1 out but it's been pretty useful so far. Not as huge of a nuke as Mag's crush or Volt's Overload but with how infected just keep running at you pretty much they run in and die because of world on fire.

Ember is alright on Graneer or Corpus but she does a pretty good job against infected. Not the take charge kinda like Excal or Rhino but if you let the infected come to you all her skills are pretty nice for situations where you get too many infected and need them cleared out not just infront but on your sides and behind you.

[WolfySoul]

Ember is good in a combination with ash :) World on fire + blade storm aaaand all dead :)

[Retni]

Personally I preferred Fire Blast to Overheat as the 50-energy power, as I found it more useful for area denial against the infested and to a lesser extent everything else... but eh.

Still don't use fireball, since if you can even aim it properly it hits maybe one target, not counting the small residual flame damage - my assault rifle can pierce enemies and is much more accurate already. Why pay energy for less power?

Overheat... I haven't actually used a lot since the patch. Does that grey skin reduce damage or something? It doesn't really explain it. It doesn't seem to have much effect on anything except infested, and even then it can't really stop much for more than a couple of seconds.

World on Fire at least properly burns things now, and I can't really complain about the damage either... though the cast time more or less means that any situation you'd use it in will cause your death if you want to get maximum kills-for-energy-cost. Unless you're in a party, at least... though you'll probably still lose your shields and some health.

[KaptainKabi]

So far I've been using over heat when fighting infested like when they rush you after you open a locked door. It burns through quit a few and I seem to get hit less as well from melee. With how cheap overheat is now when I get rushed I throw it on and melee everything. Only reason I didn't use it much before was because of the cost in energy to use wasn't worth it really. Fire Blast I used sparingly in the first place mostly to block door ways or to revive a friend safly but now I just use it to clear a big groups since overheat seems to work just as well for what I used fire blast for before the patch.

[DeadlyShadow]

And worst of all they changed her model.

... OK, I'll stop now.

The new one is way better, but there's something about her arms that I don't like..............

[Casval_Rouge]

The last few posts proves my point completely. Everyone one of you said Ember is alright, when against Infestation. One, infestation is the easiest faction by a long mile right now, no one needs help against them. Secondly, it doesn't change the fact that because Ember is good against infestation, she has a role, not a style. I figured people would undestand what is the problem with that without me going ramble on and on about it, I guess not.

If we want a balanced game, there needs to be a solid benchmark as to just how powerful a Warframe is in various situations and combinations. We don't have that. And that is not a problem enough playtesting would fix. There is no direction to the design of Warframes at the moment. Should the players be choosing their Warframe for various missions base on the abilities? Or should they be allowed to choose from whoever they like? There needs be a definite decision and I don't see that right now. Sword Dash cuts through enemies like they are nothing, so who would need Ember for CC when there is an ability like that? Oh you say Sword Dash is OP? Ash works well with Ember? Maybe that is because both of them are very much underpower in contrast to most Male Warframes right now?

The problem is not whether or not Ember changes makes her useful or not, is because as long as the female Warframes remains "Roles" Warframes, and the Males are not (Why females for roles anyways? I don't understand that at all), balancing would be a pain in the &#!. Also "Style" Warframes will be superior to "Role" Warframes every time because they have the tools to deal with any enemies, where does the roles comes into play here at all? Loki can deal with any situation with his skils, so why choose Ember or Trinity or Mag over him? Sure if you like one of those just because of how they look or how they play, but you're not going to be fulfilling your role at any time when they can clear the rooms without your help. Thats like rolling a healer, turns out your DPS don't even need healing against anyone. Then you wonder just what on earth are you even doing here. Or you found out you can help your mates when they need revive, you CC the crowd and revive them, you feel about yourself. Now look back on the last few games you have played, just how many times has that happened? Because if it is often, then either they are not very good at this game at all, or the Warframes are design for new players only. Neither case is a good thing.

[Aido-Hwedo]

umm saying ember is good agianst infected is like saying Volt is good agianst infected(4th power killes everything) Excal is good agianst infected(Blade Rush and forget abotu it) rhino(stomp and charge) ect.ect. LAst time i checked ALL frames were good agianst infected...

[Casval_Rouge]

umm saying ember is good agianst infected is like saying Volt is good agianst infected(4th power killes everything) Excal is good agianst infected(Blade Rush and forget abotu it) rhino(stomp and charge) ect.ect. LAst time i checked ALL frames were good agianst infected...

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