Possible Fix For Valkyr's Hysteria?

[Rakshal]

Valkyr's Hysteria is both extremely OP and frustrating to use at the same time.

 

Combos: With a regular melee weapon you can turn and swing the way your facing in the middle of a combo, but in Hysteria you can only swing one way while in the middle of the combos even if your camera is facing the complete opposite way. I think that in Hysteria you should be able to turn and use your combos.

 

Invincibility: Have invincibility with no trade off is broken in any game (and claws that do 10,000+ damage is not a trade off). I think Hysteria should add 100% armor to your base armor (the armor would equal about 1860 if you have a max Steel Fiber and not under the effect of Warcry).

 

Thoughts?

[noveltyhero]

Again a "fix"? I like Valkyr the way she is right now, crazy! Out of proportion, ridiculous <-pick whatever word you want  She won't feel the same without it :/

[Sasquatchias]

I feel damage mitigation and increased lifesteal would be really good instead, since it punishes the players who abuse Hysteria while rewarding those who play smart.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Sasquatch180

[Nidamir]

Damage of claws is calculated by your melee weapon stats.. 

[Felnia]

No to the invincibility yes to number 1

[Rakshal]

Damage of claws is calculated by your melee weapon stats.. 

I know, but 10k damage is still 10k damage.

[aoguro]

people have ideas =) DE is not santa claus to fullfill dreams

 

warframe is a "frame" to play with ...

anyway, they read your suggestions but why should they create "private valkyrs" ?

[OptimumBow0]

 

anyway, they read your suggestions but why should they create "private valkyrs" ?

They changed Trinity to fix the same EZ mode issue.

 

1860 armor (possibly more if Power Strength is factored in) and greater life steal sounds like a good fix.

[-Xenomorph.Queen-]

NO, nobody thinks valkyr needs a "fix", that is nonsensical because valkyr is fine, if you dont enjoy playing with her just pick another frame and use it. Problem solved 

 

And stop QQing about hysteria

Edited September 21, 2014 by MaxHeadroomS

[Tsunero]

NO, nobody thinks valkyr needs a "fix", that is nonsensical because valkyr is fine, if you dont enjoy playing with her just pick another frame and use it. Problem solved 

 

And stop QQing about hysteria

[Azawarau]

NO, nobody thinks valkyr needs a "fix", that is nonsensical because valkyr is fine, if you dont enjoy playing with her just pick another frame and use it. Problem solved 

 

And stop QQing about hysteria

A ton of people feel she needs a change

Many famous Valkyr mains on the forum among those

Don't just flat lie like you have something to say

[perfectStranger]

If  they fix it like they fixed trinity then please no.

Trinity's Blessing now looks like a heal from a RPG game, instead of looking at the game it requires the player to stare at bars.... oh great :<

Before the fix i didn't played it because it was OP, and after the fix i haven't played it yet because i don't want to play an RPG.

So be careful when you ask for a fix please.

Edited October 11, 2014 by perfectStranger

[Josa]

Whats the point of having 2 Warcrys? (Except the other one makes you melee only.)

[HunRii]

Why do people think hysteria needs fixing?  The frame is balanced around using it defensively.  It's a best defense is an aggressive (melee only) offensive ability.

 

To make the proposed changes would mean major alterations to the base stats of the frame without completely weakening the frame.

[StinkyPygmy]

NO, nobody thinks valkyr needs a "fix", that is nonsensical because valkyr is fine, if you dont enjoy playing with her just pick another frame and use it. Problem solved 

 

And stop QQing about hysteria

Because no matter how you look at it, effectively permanent god mode is bad mechanic design. Hysteria should be tweaked to give Val the whole "berserker frame feel" without what would be considered cheating if it wasn't a mechanic already. She is not supposed to be invulnerable. She is supposed to be tough and the ability to use pain to her advantage and fuel her anger (hence hysteria being her rage mode ability). Invulnerability is bad and shouldn't even exist without some sort of balance or downside. It should get removed for the same reason god-mode was removed from trin, as It was cheap and easily exploitable. It trivializes content and people will always exploit it as long as its there to be exploited.

 

On topic: Significant increase in armor would be a good thing. But how about an increase in dmg resistance as her health goes down while hysteria is active instead?

Perhaps DR equal to the % of health she has lost. For example: val has 70% health left which gives her dmg resistance equal to the amount of health she has lost. In this case 30% DR. That on top of her already high armor would be rather huge without being OP, especially with life steal. It would really make her live up to her berserker theme. The closer to death she is, the angrier she gets and the more she can ignore pain.

Edited October 11, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[Azawarau]

Why do people think hysteria needs fixing?  The frame is balanced around using it defensively.  It's a best defense is an aggressive (melee only) offensive ability.

 

To make the proposed changes would mean major alterations to the base stats of the frame without completely weakening the frame.

She does better without it anyways

 

Its just a crutch

[(PSN)JoeyTwoShoes]

Invincibility: Have invincibility with no trade off is broken in any game (and claws that do 10,000+ damage is not a trade off). 

I disagree with this, anyone that plays Valkyr at higher levels against heavily-armored enemies knows that Hysteria's claws at higher levels lose effectiveness due to enemy armor scaling, meaning that when you get to high levels they will effectively do less damage than popular elemental melee weapon builds due to the claws being unable to benefit from elemental mods, this while your allies are killing enemies from a distance with modded guns, which I think is a pretty big trade-off.

 

 It should get removed for the same reason god-mode was removed from trin, as It was cheap and easily exploitable. It trivializes content and people will always exploit it as long as its there to be exploited.

"God-mode" was removed from Trinity because, on top of healing her teammates, she made herself and all her teammates completely invincible with absolutely no draw-back at all, allowing them to use all their modded weapons in addition to being invulnerable to damage. Trinity's god-mode pretty much any mission easy, survival, defense, mobile defense, you name it, mainly because the team effectively couldn't die while they shot enemies. Being forced to use the claws is a pretty big trade-off, and Hysteria's invincibility only affects Valkyr.

 

Hysteria won't defend the cryopod, it won't protect Corpus/Grineer systems while the Lotus hacks into them, and it won't make life support drop faster (especially when the damage of the claws drops off at higher levels, meaning it's better to stick to modded melee weapons if you want to kill enemies faster so they can drop capsules). There's a reason while Valkyr isn't recommended for defense missions and why the common survival team doesn't consist of 4 Valkyr's. In using Hysteria you are effectively dampening your ability to defend objectives, manage spread out groups of enemies and, in long survival runs, kill enemies to gain life support. IMO these are all valid downsides for just being able to resist damage and CC (and Valkyr is very tanky anyway).

 

Good Valkyr players don't even need Hysteria and can do better without it (for example, in the tactical alerts on PS4 I met other fellow Valkyr players, and in each and every case I did a higher percentage of the damage, without using Hysteria once). It does not trivialize game-play, you cannot take Valkyr into any mission, spam Hysteria, and expect to do well without effort. Hysteria is only really needed for low level players or people who don't have yet have the rage and lifestrike mods, as it (unless you have the health regen aura) is the only way for Valkyr to get back the health she's lost due to having poor shields, it is a highly situational ability that experienced players rarely need to make use of, and so I don't see how it deserves a nerf in it's current state.

 

EDIT:

A ton of people feel she needs a change

Many famous Valkyr mains on the forum among those

Don't just flat lie like you have something to say

 

I wouldn't be accusing someone else of lying, according to a poll you yourself made to, and I quote, "get a general idea of forum opinion", a ton of people feel she doesn't need a change:

 

http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=5415ff87e4b088456e71c9d4

Edited October 11, 2014 by (PS4)JoeyTwoShoes

[HunRii]

That's just it.  I don't spam Hysteria.  I don't need to.  In fact, I tend to kill more enemies with my primary weapon than with melee damage.

 

Hysteria isn't a crutch, it's a tool.  A tool to be used in certain circumstances.  Aside from being OP in survival missions with the right mods (which I use to my advantage), it's not all that great compared to other frames abilities for other mission types.

[Azawarau]

I disagree with this, anyone that plays Valkyr at higher levels against heavily-armored enemies knows that Hysteria's claws at higher levels lose effectiveness due to enemy armor scaling, meaning that when you get to high levels they will effectively do less damage than popular elemental melee weapon builds due to the claws being unable to benefit from elemental mods, this while your allies are killing enemies from a distance with modded guns, which I think is a pretty big trade-off.

 

"God-mode" was removed from Trinity because, on top of healing her teammates, she made herself and all her teammates completely invincible with absolutely no draw-back at all, allowing them to use all their modded weapons in addition to being invulnerable to damage. Trinity's god-mode pretty much any mission easy, survival, defense, mobile defense, you name it, mainly because the team effectively couldn't die while they shot enemies. Being forced to use the claws is a pretty big trade-off, and Hysteria's invincibility only affects Valkyr.

 

Hysteria won't defend the cryopod, it won't protect Corpus/Grineer systems while the Lotus hacks into them, and it won't make life support drop faster (especially when the damage of the claws drops off at higher levels, meaning it's better to stick to modded melee weapons if you want to kill enemies faster so they can drop capsules). There's a reason while Valkyr isn't recommended for defense missions and why the common survival team doesn't consist of 4 Valkyr's. In using Hysteria you are effectively dampening your ability to defend objectives, manage spread out groups of enemies and, in long survival runs, kill enemies to gain life support. IMO these are all valid downsides for just being able to resist damage and CC (and Valkyr is very tanky anyway).

 

Good Valkyr players don't even need Hysteria and can do better without it (for example, in the tactical alerts on PS4 I met other fellow Valkyr players, and in each and every case I did a higher percentage of the damage, without using Hysteria once). It does not trivialize game-play, you cannot take Valkyr into any mission, spam Hysteria, and expect to do well without effort. Hysteria is only really needed for low level players or people who don't have yet have the rage and lifestrike mods, as it (unless you have the health regen aura) is the only way for Valkyr to get back the health she's lost due to having poor shields, it is a highly situational ability that experienced players rarely need to make use of, and so I don't see how it deserves a nerf in it's current state.

 

EDIT:

 

I wouldn't be accusing someone else of lying, according to a poll you yourself made to, and I quote, "get a general idea of forum opinion", a ton of people feel she doesn't need a change:

 

http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=5415ff87e4b088456e71c9d4

The poster himself said and i quote

 nobody thinks valkyr needs a "fix"

To which i replied

 

A ton of people feel she needs a change

 

Youre wrong

 

Also that poll has been open for a very long time and the numbers were much different before

 

The % was closer to 30-40 against it

 

Im sure someone pushed up no votes to bring it up at a later time

[ScorpioEric]

Make it so your health can't go below 1 for the duration. Leave everything else the same.

My reasoning: Penalty for not killing anything is severe if you just use it to run away, so you are forced to kill things for health. Also goes pretty well with the concept IMO.

 

Also reduce the duration.

My reasoning: Can add duration to Warcry and not be stuck in Hysteria when it is used.

Edited October 11, 2014 by ScorpioEric

[Azawarau]

Make it so your health can't go below 1 for the duration. Leave everything else the same.

My reasoning: Penalty for not killing anything is severe if you just use it to run away, so you are forced to kill things for health. Also goes pretty well with the concept IMO.

 

Also reduce the duration.

My reasoning: Can add duration to Warcry and not be stuck in Hysteria when it is used.

90 seconds to run is way too much

 

Even 15-30 seconds is way too much to be just invincible against everything

[ScorpioEric]

90 seconds to run is way too much

 

Even 15-30 seconds is way too much to be just invincible against everything

I'm assuming you are replying in order from top to bottom.

Not really sure what you are trying to say with "90 seconds to run is way too much". The whole point of my suggestion was so that you don't use it to run.

If you mean my suggestion to reduce duration when you say "Even 15-30 seconds is way too much to be just invincible against everything" notice how I said also.

 

I have to ask you, did you even read my post?

*Note that I'm not sure what you are trying to say and what you're responding to, so my responses may not make sense.

[Azawarau]

I'm assuming you are replying in order from top to bottom.

Not really sure what you are trying to say with "90 seconds to run is way too much". The whole point of my suggestion was so that you don't use it to run.

If you mean my suggestion to reduce duration when you say "Even 15-30 seconds is way too much to be just invincible against everything" notice how I said also.

 

I have to ask you, did you even read my post?

*Note that I'm not sure what you are trying to say and what you're responding to, so my responses may not make sense.

Any form of mobile invincibility that lasts more than a few seconds is too much even if HP is reduced to 1

Edited October 12, 2014 by Azawarau

[StinkyPygmy]

I disagree with this, anyone that plays Valkyr at higher levels against heavily-armored enemies knows that Hysteria's claws at higher levels lose effectiveness due to enemy armor scaling, meaning that when you get to high levels they will effectively do less damage than popular elemental melee weapon builds due to the claws being unable to benefit from elemental mods, this while your allies are killing enemies from a distance with modded guns, which I think is a pretty big trade-off.

 

"God-mode" was removed from Trinity because, on top of healing her teammates, she made herself and all her teammates completely invincible with absolutely no draw-back at all, allowing them to use all their modded weapons in addition to being invulnerable to damage. Trinity's god-mode pretty much any mission easy, survival, defense, mobile defense, you name it, mainly because the team effectively couldn't die while they shot enemies. Being forced to use the claws is a pretty big trade-off, and Hysteria's invincibility only affects Valkyr.

 

Hysteria won't defend the cryopod, it won't protect Corpus/Grineer systems while the Lotus hacks into them, and it won't make life support drop faster (especially when the damage of the claws drops off at higher levels, meaning it's better to stick to modded melee weapons if you want to kill enemies faster so they can drop capsules). There's a reason while Valkyr isn't recommended for defense missions and why the common survival team doesn't consist of 4 Valkyr's. In using Hysteria you are effectively dampening your ability to defend objectives, manage spread out groups of enemies and, in long survival runs, kill enemies to gain life support. IMO these are all valid downsides for just being able to resist damage and CC (and Valkyr is very tanky anyway).

 

Good Valkyr players don't even need Hysteria and can do better without it (for example, in the tactical alerts on PS4 I met other fellow Valkyr players, and in each and every case I did a higher percentage of the damage, without using Hysteria once). It does not trivialize game-play, you cannot take Valkyr into any mission, spam Hysteria, and expect to do well without effort. Hysteria is only really needed for low level players or people who don't have yet have the rage and lifestrike mods, as it (unless you have the health regen aura) is the only way for Valkyr to get back the health she's lost due to having poor shields, it is a highly situational ability that experienced players rarely need to make use of, and so I don't see how it deserves a nerf in it's current state.

 

EDIT:

 

I wouldn't be accusing someone else of lying, according to a poll you yourself made to, and I quote, "get a general idea of forum opinion", a ton of people feel she doesn't need a change:

 

http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=5415ff87e4b088456e71c9d4

I understand your point but heres the problem.

 

1) Vals god mode being arguably less useful for defense missions and old blessing in general is still godmode regardless. Anything thats not a defensive mission (survival, spy, capture etc) it is still terribly over powered. Press 4 and forget.

 

2) Just because you don't use it as a crutch or cheap trick, doesn't mean a large amount of people wont abuse it regardless. Hek, I generally only use it as needed or for convenience sake and even then it feels cheap no matter the circumstances. The fact is it will continue to be abused.

 

Invulnerability is a rather lazy mechanic especially for extended periods without some sort of balancing act.

[perfectStranger]

Yeah yeah go on complaining, ruin valkyr, then next one, then next next one, ruin everything, then this game will be boring flat and nobody will play it, or pay for its development.

Complainers gonna complain.