The Two Queensies

[PookieNumnums]

The cloning labs concepts shown in the last livestream has had me thinking about my past ideas of who and what grineer were like. I used to think that they were driven mad with their determination to fix their genetic predisposition. Ive long since dropped the idea of a dieing race on the brink of extinction trying to find a way to keep their race from disappearing from the universe forever, and their total conquest just being a hobby. Now, I think the two queens are probably as artificial and biotic as they could possibly be. A brain and a face and tubes. Sustained indefinitely by the best of the best grineer cloning technologies; like theyre constantly using other clones to feed fresh cells into their system. Fresh brains, w/e..  If they are sustainable, then they really arent worried about fixing their metaleprosy. Maybe they do really just wanna own and destroy everything, and get revenge on whoever caused the turn of events that made them this way.

 

I also used to imagine the two queens as sisters, one as normal as a grineer could be, and the other one severely deformed and twice as evil having deformed oddsized limbs and relying more on technology. The recent event kind of brought that type of story to life. One of the grineer rocketeers seemed 'normal' and the other seemed a little creepy. This again made me think of the two queens and how they might be personified. Im thinking either a conjoined twin type grineer, or two seperate grineer entities hooked up to one large main chassis that operate and speak as one.

 

I just went and watched the vors prize teaser

 

 

sounds like more than one voice at a time, and it says 'this we command'

 

 

Thoughts?

Edited September 22, 2014 by T4LCOMX

[Abenoki]

I thought it was already known there was 2? I think there use to be 3 at a point (remember hearing that somewhere)

Edited September 21, 2014 by Echoa

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

So Vor was an Admiral....

[DienosPhos]

Admiral Vor - IT'S A TENNO!

[Morec0]

I thought it was already known there was 2? I think there use to be 3 at a point (remember hearing that somewhere)

 

There was a fan theory that Lotus was a sibling of them that went rogue, which was spawned from ANOTHER fan theory that the Twin Queens are ancient Orokin creations designed to rule their military.

 

Yeah, it makes no sense, especially when Vor goes on during the intro quest about how he plans to use the Tenno research to "cure" the Grineer, prove himself to the Queens, and then make sweet, sweet love to them and die with grandchildren.

 

Personally, I hope the twin Queens are/were at some point conjoined twins (that, if the latter applies, were separated in a way that you can see where they were separated even with the repairs done post-surgery). But that's just me being hopeful.

[Aimop95]

Holy S#&$. I never realized that Vor got demoted...Though I do think the Queens are being a bit hasty in only destroying tenno pods. 

[Hayzemet]

But who is in command, I never fully comprehend the name

[Etsoree]

There was a fan theory that Lotus was a sibling of them that went rogue, which was spawned from ANOTHER fan theory that the Twin Queens are ancient Orokin creations designed to rule their military.

 

Yeah, it makes no sense, especially when Vor goes on during the intro quest about how he plans to use the Tenno research to "cure" the Grineer, prove himself to the Queens, and then make sweet, sweet love to them and die with grandchildren.

 

Personally, I hope the twin Queens are/were at some point conjoined twins (that, if the latter applies, were separated in a way that you can see where they were separated even with the repairs done post-surgery). But that's just me being hopeful.

 

I personally made a theory that they're Tenno.

[ElHefe]

There was a fan theory that Lotus was a sibling of them that went rogue, which was spawned from ANOTHER fan theory that the Twin Queens are ancient Orokin creations designed to rule their military.

 

Yeah, it makes no sense, especially when Vor goes on during the intro quest about how he plans to use the Tenno research to "cure" the Grineer, prove himself to the Queens, and then make sweet, sweet love to them and die with grandchildren.

 

Personally, I hope the twin Queens are/were at some point conjoined twins (that, if the latter applies, were separated in a way that you can see where they were separated even with the repairs done post-surgery). But that's just me being hopeful.

 

Wasn't it mentioned that there has been rival queens in the past, suggesting regime changes?

 

During the last Devstream 37 where dual thrones were depicted, the idea of the "twin" queens as being siamese twins crossed my mind as well; however, they are still joined (like Kuato in the original Total Recall)

 

At the very least the dialogue between Vor and the Twin Queens shows considerable symbiotic thinking between the "two"

The plot possibilities of a duality are huge ...

One queen analytical the other intuitive

One ruthless the other pragmatic

Combining opposites makes for an internal checks and balances

 

I have also wondered if to be "queen" meant that they were "fertile" meaning the source for ova or key "maternal" genetic material like for insect colonies ... only one reproductive female

 

Similarly, any "offspring" not from the current queen lineage would be considered "alien" and purged

Strong motivation to keep the status quo else constant turn over would never allow the Grineer to become an expanding empire 

 

Last question would be did the Grineer ALWAYS have TWO queens?

At some point was there only one?

What pressured having two?

What happens if one dies?  Replace both - a totally new "pair"?

[Cerberus888]

The whole "we" thing could sprout from how asian royalty refer to themselves. They also use we or us and never I or me. It has to do with being one with their country. It's possible that is what is happening. 

[Sloan441]

You can never discount the imperial "we" when this sort of dialog is presented to us. "We are not amused."

 

The point made above that the queens might be something left over from the Orokin era is an interesting one. The problem is we know so very little. Too little to really make any sort of judgement call.

 

Although, if we're talking about remote cyber-rule--we never actually see the queens, they just talk. Remind you of anyone?

[aoguro]

Admiral Vor - IT'S A TENNO!

 

WAS ! )))

[aoguro]

the whole concept of warframe and its races reminds me on giants like moebius, druillet etc. (you can find them at wikipedia or old u-comics) :-)

 

in my early youth by reading their grafic-stories i was always thinking how great it would be to move through their wellpainted worlds, now we can do that in warframe ... :P

Edited September 22, 2014 by 7ENN0

[MihawkDulacr1]

Id love to see a raw concept art on how the mighty queens qould look like , as we already have seen most of the corpus board. At least the mysterium around them gives some extra awesomeness.

 

And maybe Im the only one, but I genuinely love the speculation and lore theories that are posted in the forums. Its so awesome for me to read and discuss stuff that is possible in this universe. :D

[Elenortirie]

Wasn't it mentioned that there has been rival queens in the past, suggesting regime changes?

 

During the last Devstream 37 where dual thrones were depicted, the idea of the "twin" queens as being siamese twins crossed my mind as well; however, they are still joined (like Kuato in the original Total Recall)

 

At the very least the dialogue between Vor and the Twin Queens shows considerable symbiotic thinking between the "two"

The plot possibilities of a duality are huge ...

One queen analytical the other intuitive

One ruthless the other pragmatic

Combining opposites makes for an internal checks and balances

 

I have also wondered if to be "queen" meant that they were "fertile" meaning the source for ova or key "maternal" genetic material like for insect colonies ... only one reproductive female

 

Similarly, any "offspring" not from the current queen lineage would be considered "alien" and purged

Strong motivation to keep the status quo else constant turn over would never allow the Grineer to become an expanding empire 

 

Last question would be did the Grineer ALWAYS have TWO queens?

At some point was there only one?

What pressured having two?

What happens if one dies?  Replace both - a totally new "pair"?

 

You know whne I started playing this game - before I realised that grineer are just army of clones I was quite sure they were somekind of bugs that evovled to much :D

and twin queens was for me just the same as queen is for a bug swarm....

 

The whole "we" thing could sprout from how asian royalty refer to themselves. They also use we or us and never I or me. It has to do with being one with their country. It's possible that is what is happening. 

 

never heard about "Rolay Plural"? its not only about asian royalty - back in a past nearly all Kings and Queens refered to themselves as "we" and yeah I mean in europe

[ElHefe]

@ erikandrew @ Sloan441 ... the point is that the Grineer subjects refer to them in the pleural - "My Queens" is NOT part of historical royal court ettiquette

 

It is reasonable to conclude that the "Twin Queens" or "The Queens" are two entities and while they have never been depicted in game, the concept artists in Devstream 37 showed them to be two

Also, when Vor was speaking to them there were two distinct tones of voice heard

Eventhough the two speakers never addressed the other directly by name or by title, there were meaningful pauses in sentences which gave the impression that two were speaking but were so congruent in their thinking that the other could immediately complete the sentence of the other - as siblings or very close people can do

 

If there is only one person as "The Twin Queens" it will be a very interesting plot twist - one that should be in the end completely understandable (example:  there is one person with multiple personalities that talk to "the other" ... we emphasize the physical aspects of genetic disease because they are obvious but if the queens are in a sorry state as their subjects from "cloning" then mental/psychological effects are just as probable.  There is strong data for a multigenetic basis for the major mood disorders such as bipolar, schizophrenia/affective and depression)

Edited September 22, 2014 by ElHefe

[Sloan441]

My thinking was more along the lines of you really don't know who the Lotus is. She could very well be one of the queens, but just working at cross purposes to her fellow ruler. After all, having your own personal army of tenno gives you a certain degree of independence.

 

That's pretty unlikely, but from little we know it's not outside the realm of possibility.

 

What we do know is there are two of..something. They also appear to be relatively hands-on when dealing with their more prominent subordinates (witness what happens to Vor). They feel very threatened by the tenno--to the point of not wanting to deal with them in any way but elimination. On the other hand, they appear rather remote to the rank and file grineer.

 

The art shown in the devstream was waaaaay cool, but also covered a lot of possibilities as well. The "queens" in the art were placeholders as clearly stated. However, there were supposed to be two of something. What some of the art really reminded me of more than anything was the king-emperor Huon of Moorcock's Granbretan in the Runestaff cycle. Something transhuman or even direct from the Orokin era can't be discounted.

 

Their mental state is interesting, especially when compared to the sisters we encounter in the event. One very direct and goal oriented, one bat-S#&$ crazy. Something to think about and would explain some of the bizarre behavior of the grineer in general.

[LordMelvin]

I had this idea that the Queens are also from the Orokin era, or were maimed in some way by the Lotus and the Tenno, maybe even survivors of the Purge. The fact that the Queens don't want to research Orokin tech means they're aware of the dangers of waking the Tenno again.

[Lost_Cartographer]

I'm under the impression the Queens are from the Orokin Era, are the one's that "discovered" the cloning technology, and utilized it to build their empire.  I'm also under the impression they're Tenno, or rather, clones themselves of a Prime Tenno.  By extension, I once thought that our Tenno were one of a kind, like there is only ONE Excalibur, but then the fact of "rediscovered" ancient cloning technology gave me something to ponder.  The primes are the originals, the "regulars" we have now are the knock offs based off of the originals, but still just as capable.  I doubt, for example, the Orokin won the old war with only a small handful and then some of Tenno, they still needed an army.

 

Then I considered that the Grineer are cloning clones of clones, which is showing degenerative effect, to which the obvious answer would be to use a NEW, fresh DNA sample... but they won't, or rather, probably because they can't.  They're stuck with rehashing DNA samples from clones because they're the only samples that work with the current gene seed that won't cause catastrophic problems far worse than the degeneration they're experiencing now.  So we have a male version that is fairly degenerated, and a female version, which is considerably "fresher."  She looks more beat up than rotten or old like her male counter parts.  This convinced me the Queens must be, in some way, timeless, and not only that, the source of the female Grineer gene seed.  The male gene seed is probably from a man that lived way back in the Orokin era and is no longer available to draw DNA from, so the Grineer empire is stuck with using whatever clones they have on hand to restabilize the DNA, and since clones have a rather short shelf life (mostly due to battlefield fatalities) each sampling is in an even worse degenerative state than the last.  Coincidentally, it seems like Tyr Regor's work is based on repairing that DNA and even freely manipulating it.  Also coincidentally... we Tenno have access to something similar to that very capability via Kubrow breeding facilities...

 

For a reason why the female Grineer aren't flipping around, Tenno capability probably doesn't clone very far from the source, plus they lack actual Warframes.

 

As for the drive to conquer the Solar system, if the Queens are from the Orokin Era, we can chalk that up to two reasons:  1: From the sounds of things, it sounds like the Orokin were THE ruling empire of the Solar System at the time, and we have no idea how they ran things, we just know they were getting their asses kicked and in their desperation turned towards the few remaining infected survivors they banished to a hell space to save them.  2. They were also humanities protectors as a result.  If the Sentients come back... and with the outer terminus activated, they're probably well on their way, re-establishing the old Orokin empire via a new Grineer Empire doesn't sound all that far fetched of a plan, only this time they're skimping out on the technology, relying on good old fashioned heavy armor and bullets to get the job done, like the Orokin were forced to do to even stand a chance all those millenia ago.

 

If the Tenno aren't enough to stop the Sentients this time, then the Human race would really want the Grineer to have the capability to produce Tenno at will.  Tyl Regor might be that Grineer that we need to remove, but can't afford to kill.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Littleman88

[ElHefe]

@ Littleman88 ... now that is a very interesting take on all this, 1+ for audacious originality!

[Sloan441]

I'm personally absolutely sure the tenno are clones. They have to be. The confluence of physical properties necessary to produce a tenno are very rare in the general population. Once you have a good sample of what you need to produce the necessary warriors, you clone the bejeezus out of them to produce an army capable of settling the Sentients' hash in as little time as possible.

 

It seems to have worked.

 

Now the grineer being clones of the original Orokin army that fought the Sentients until the tenno were developed makes sense. However, I'd draw causality in the other direction. They're what's LEFT of the Orokin Empire military and were cultivated by whatever the Queens are to try and reproduce an imperial polity after the collapse of the Orokin and withdrawal of the tenno.

 

If this is the case, the return of the tenno would most certainly have the Queens in a panic for their realm and wanting to wipe them out as quickly as possible with no questions. This could even be a continuation of an Orokin policy that results in the tenno rebellion to begin with. That would just highlight the seriousness of the situation from the Queens' perspective.