New / Unexperienced Players Being Cheated On Trades

[LadyScootaloo]

Wow. Quite a few assumptions... maybe just for enjoying skimming out the new or inexperience players in trading all day; otherwise, it's hard to understand if one with that rationale can work well in any co-op game

 

Sorry, someone from DE told me to be positive and constructive about everything I say, so, I have to use backhanded compliments as a minimum.

(while I'm not lying about the DE 'telling/making' me do that part, I'm mostly doing it because it's a new brand of commenting for my use)

 

The part about plat being hoarded is not wrong, though.

Plat has to come from somewhere or other. (bought, most often)

If more of it is taken off, more needs to be bought to 'replace' it.

 

This is not a co-op game, yet, though?

The co-op only exists in rudimentary form in certain limited power combinations which are being nerfed as we speak.

Of course, DE is on the right track for balancing these combinations! (sort of.)

The majority of the gameplay and content of this game remains as a sort of hack-n-slash.

This is really good, too!

It's much more fast-paced and you don't need to care about how others play if you don't really want to. Lots of freedom in gameplay.

Edited September 22, 2014 by LadyScootaloo

[Paxcon]

You can't put normal ember stuff in trade. Therefore I doubt zee story.

 

Also most of us who don't want an auction house, aren't selling for insane prices at all. I am a very reasonable trader and I sell most of my stuff at fair value.

 

However I am opposed to an auction house because of flooding due to the lazy people just throwing everything in there. It will not be pretty for many months.

 

You do understand the difference between dojo and trading right? And the ''i am good, so the rest must be as well'' argument is pretty much invalid, just go try and find it out for yourself. Lot's of blokes trying to sell their S#&$ for too much. And if stuff is flooding the auction house, well.. appearantly it's easy to obtain then, isnt it. So.. it shouldnt be(and guess what, it isnt) worth much in the first place. Basic economics..supply and demand. I for one woulndt mind seeing 34793827423923 ammo drum mods for sale, for say..1p, or credits or tradable for other mods, simply because i wouldnt buy them. Unless i needed some cheap grindmods to upgrade better ones.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Paxcon

[Semshol]

You do understand the difference between dojo and trading right? And the ''i am good, so the rest must be as well'' argument is pretty much invalid, just go try and find it out for yourself. Lot's of blokes trying to sell their S#&$ for too much. And if stuff is flooding the auction house, well.. appearantly it's easy to obtain then, isnt it. So.. it shouldnt be(and guess what, it isnt) worth much in the first place.

 

Consider the following:

 

- Stuff that floods will be the useless stuff. However it is stuff newer players can obtain and it is usually what gives them their first taste of plat. Newbies therefore lose out.

 

- Rares (in terms of actually rare items because RNG is not that loving to some of us) will remain rare and still be sold for too much, there will be no difference here and in fact, all it will take is some guy selling for the highest possible price to get the others to realise they might as well do the same, and now buyers are forced to pay even higher prices because no one would cheat themselves out of good plat. Farmers win in this case.

 

- Overall, Auction house will be bad for trading. On BOTH sides of the equation.

 

Traders like me wouldn't lose, we'd just pay the cost of doing business and farm whatever gets us the best deal. The only ones that will suffer are the regular folk who don't actually have time to farm.

 

Edit: Buyer awareness is important and I believe its not something that needs an auction house to correct. Buyers CAN find good traders, but are often too impatient to do so or are too stupid to do so. If they take a look at trade forums, my mega-mart is always there (except for the last few weeks due to work and various things raining from the sky at the worst possible moment.)

Edited September 22, 2014 by Semshol

[Paxcon]

Consider the following:

 

- Stuff that floods will be the useless stuff. However it is stuff newer players can obtain and it is usually what gives them their first taste of plat. Newbies therefore lose out.

 

- Rares (in terms of actually rare items because RNG is not that loving to some of us) will remain rare and still be sold for too much, there will be no difference here and in fact, all it will take is some guy selling for the highest possible price to get the others to realise they might as well do the same, and now buyers are forced to pay even higher prices because no one would cheat themselves out of good plat. Farmers win in this case.

 

 

 

I edited out the stuff i dont have to comment on, but what do you mean exactly with newbies losing out? Nobody is selling those useless mods  for p anyway, not now, not likely with an auction house.

 

Thing is, rares and an auction house still gives you the option to choose between different sellers. With the current system you need to chase the forums or the horrible trade channel to find what you need and, hopefully, agree on a price. With an auction house you could simply ignore the ones selling the stuff for way too high and wait for someone that doesnt. People always want to sell, they're not going to make some sort of silent agreement to keep prices high. If i got a rare mod and i want some p, i'm offering it at 10p/% lower than the currently lowest price. As i said, it's basic supply and demand. Hoarders/scammers lose out since nobody will buy those but rather wait for someone that doesnt to stuff like that.

 

I mean, i like the community of this game but it has its flaws. This, and the tax abuse, are two of them. 

 

And honestly, i feel bad for people like you. The honest traders/persons always suffer from those who are not. Perhaps an auction house is not THE way to go for (i believe it is though) but it would make things easier. A better trade system is what we need.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Paxcon

[(PSN)Joshuaalt]

Does someone selling me a maxed Vitality for 20p count as a rip-off?

You ripping them off....yes.

[Semshol]

-snip-

 

Well some of the easily obtainable prime parts are sold as well, but with an AH those would flood instantly from farmers, we have unbelievable stock piles, believe me. Also nightmare mods etc.

 

But an auction house will basically allow every farmer to put everything on there. Since not every farmer uses the trade forum like I do. Hoarders and Scammers won't lose out, they'll just sell the rares and wait for the rest of the market to clear. Also silent agreements don't require talking, they happen when a farmer just glances at total stock versus selling price. No one is going to cut himself out of profit and there aren't going to be 200 crimson dervishes on offer.

 

I don't lose out with the current community though, I find it easy to do business. There is absolutely no suffering at Semshol's mega-mart. I have made over 1k platinum just by trading lol. What I feel is that people need to learn HOW to trade rather than seeking an auction house or an alternative to trading. If you learn its way, you will be okay.

[makaloff95]

the economy been acting crazy lately...I saw people selling Rihno p set for 80p....

 

can be understandable since the chassi is a pain to get over (T4 survival wave 15+)

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

You cant trade starter plat

[Leland_Gaunt]

Trade channel is stupid. It's a spambox with the same traders trying to unload their crap over and over again, seriously, just watch it. It's a mess, totally unclear and a pain in the @$$ to see what one is actually selling/buying. We need an auction house, the only people opposed to an auction house must be the people selling their stuff for insane prices.

 

I've seen those guys. I was looking for an ember prime bp, since i was too lazy to farm ODD myself. I was mr3 at the time so ppl thought i was a noob. I was seriously offered (in the dojo!) normal ember stuff, ember prime stuff i dindt need and to top it off some douchebag wanting 50p for an ember prime BP.. they all claimed to have an ember prime bp.

 

Yea.. it's easy when you've hoarded so much stuff you can pretty much make up your own prices. Luckily(afaik) an auction house is coming so no more gazzilion plats for a mod that certainly isnt worth that much and no more easy time ripping off of newbies/players new/inexperienced to trading.

 

That story is a lie because non-prime parts can't even be traded.

 

Try a little harder next time.

[ndantony]

Does someone selling me a maxed Vitality for 20p count as a rip-off?

You ripping them off....yes.

...while the example intend to prove the point, realistically it's almost none existent. To begin it would cost the sellers quite a few, a lot plats to trade or lots of fusion, to have a maxed R10 mod. Also, in a somewhat comparable real world example, it's understandable that the wife got angry and sold the $100k car for $0.25 because of her husband ran away with a mistress, but hardly do we think that the buyer's ripping her off.

...

I mean, i like the community of this game but it has its flaws. This, and the tax abuse, are two of them.

And honestly, i feel bad for people like you. The honest traders/persons always suffer from those who are not. Perhaps an auction house is not THE way to go for (i believe it is though) but it would make things easier. A better trade system is what we need.

I can see that more experience players in trading can take advantage of new players. But to me any other trading system can be abused as equally well, just under different ways and methods. New players just need to more careful and patient. Otherwise, additional improvements may help. And/or some controls like ones with arcane helmet, though not that restrictive, to prevent hoarders.

[RitaVrataski]

This thread again. Started with "i just did something good", ended with "i'm disapointed with this trading system". How about this. You keep doing what you do, others keep making money. Everybody's happy. Sure the trade system might be crap but nobody needs your drama.

[Farlander]

An auction house is certainly not what we need. If you lump all the items into one place like that, their value will be practically non-existent.

I mean, look at any MMO out there. What happens when a couple hundred of any given item end up in the auction house?

We've all seen this happen, I shouldn't need to explain it.

 

What we do need, however, is what sites like "WTFtrading" are already doing. Collecting trade information, and setting recommended prices for items.

The problem is, WTFtrading doesn't update frequently enough, and many players don't know about the site.

 

My suggestion is this:

Warframe needs to start recording the information regarding trades. Either remove the daily trading restriction, or raise the limit significantly, restrict trades to one item per trade, and keep a log of how much platinum an item sells for.

Then, when players mouse over an item they want to sell, the game can show them the *MEDIAN* sale price for that item.

(Median is important. If it's the MEAN, then if someone rips someone off and sells it super high, then the average will skyrocket, which defeats the purpose of this system.) And of course, the sales stats will only reflect sales for the week, recalculating the stat from scratch each week, to prevent exploitation.

Basically, it's like an automatic, built in, WTFtrading. Except it updates faster, and can adapt better to market forces, 

 

A lot of games are doing this already. Again, you've probably already seen this.

Trades don't need to be controlled, or contained, players just need an easy way to make informed trades that even the noobs will find useful.

The enemy here isn't the players that are scamming people...they're just a symptom.

It's the lack of information available to players (especially the noobs) about item pricing that's the enemy.

[Chaosdreamer]

You're also probably a news starter , "starter plats" cannot be trade , As long as two people accept on price theire is nothing to do , everybody have the chance to make some good amount of plats , take it or leave it ,theire always that desesperate hourse wife oh wait I mean that guy that find waiting to sell to long and selling way cheaper than he could ,but you know when someone need the plat's they won't care if they get ripped alot or not as long they get some

[Leland_Gaunt]

People need to learn how to haggle.

[ndantony]

...

My suggestion is this:

Warframe needs to start recording the information regarding trades. Either remove the daily trading restriction, or raise the limit significantly, restrict trades to one item per trade, and keep a log of how much platinum an item sells for.

Then, when players mouse over an item they want to sell, the game can show them the *MEDIAN* sale price for that item.

(Median is important. If it's the MEAN, then if someone rips someone off and sells it super high, then the average will skyrocket, which defeats the purpose of this system.) And of course, the sales stats will only reflect sales for the week, recalculating the stat from scratch each week, to prevent exploitation.

Basically, it's like an automatic, built in, WTFtrading. Except it updates faster, and can adapt better to market forces.

...

Not a bad idea... maybe can show both bid and ask price info. But I think you mean the "MODE"?! And what is WTFtrading? WTF?

[jonnin]

And this is wrong, there is not justification for an Auction House in this game whatsoever.  An Auction house would be nothing but disastrous, destroying the value of the vast majority of items that are tradeable and making it nearly impossible for anyone to earn plat. 

.  

 

the current method is ultra tedious.  You have to sit in the spam channel until you find a buyer then travel to a dojo and trade face to face, risking a rip off (bait and switch) if not paying attention.  On top of that you have to visit two or three web sites and follow the trade channel to get a current value.  

 

An auction house fixes all these aggravations.  You would not have to do any of that except maybe travel if they insisted on placeing the AH in the dojo (it should just send items to your inbox in the mail and access like the market from ship).   Imagine --- log in, open a menu, find the item you want, pay for it, and claim it within 2 min of login. 

 

I refuse to trade outside of my clan with the current design.  Its just not worth my time and energy. 

[KFCfilmz]

Sigh....I actually did something of the exact OPPOSITE 

*Names shall remain unanimous but YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE*

So I went into trade chat and posted the following ad word for word-

                           "Looking to buy serration, flow, continuity, and split chamber mod I am a new player so don't know prices that well thanks"

Now, I had been giving my mass of prime part's to fellow clanmates who need them, because I have spares that I dont need, so I only had 1 trade left. I wanted to use it. Now after about posting my ad for 10 minute's I finally got a pm about my offer that said the following-

                "I have all of those mod's if your still interested"

Now, me being a supposed "noob", I pulled the new and enthusiastic player-

"OMG really?! Sweet man. I just bought some platinum to help buy these mod's, so what is your price?"

This is the conversation as follows-
How much do you have?

I only have around 230 is that enough?

Haha really? that's around the price of all of these combined!

Really? sweet xD guess I got lucky

Ya you did the price for all is actually around 200p so you dont need to pay 230 that's a bit much,

Oh really? Damn didn't know thank's man

Sure no problem. Want me to invite?

Ya thanks. Dont have a dojo yet.

*Invites me*

Now, when I entered his dojo, he requested to trade me and I went into the trade bar. He offered the mod's, and I waited him out until he said-

Where's the platinum?

I then canceled the trade, saying the following words-

"Dont take advantage of new players. Its wrong. Its mean and cheap. I am not a new player, rather I have been with the game since update 7-8, and dont deal with scammer's or people who take advantage of other's. Think about what you have done.

I then ignored him, then left the dojo and logged off, feeling good about myself.

[Oranji]

So like 2 days ago someone wtb an ember bp I pm'd him im selling it for 7p. With all the hate he could muster he called me a fúcking scammer since its only listed as 2p on "Wftrading" I thought that he was a newbie but by the time that im about to reply Im already ignored. That shít was funny as hell.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Oranji

[Chaosdreamer]

So like 2 days ago someone wtb an ember bp I pm'd him im selling it for 7p. With all the hate he could muster he called me stupid, moron and a fúcking scammer since its only listed as 2p on "Wftrading" I thought that he was a newbie but by the time that im about to reply Im already ignored. That S#&$ was funny as hell.

Because Wftrading is the worst B/s that could happen , price is not updated , people cheating on price with it , you can make any item you want cheap, this Website should be closed since it's only harm our trade and does not do any good (it's not showing real price , but what people would like to pay instead)

[KFCfilmz]

So like 2 days ago someone wtb an ember bp I pm'd him im selling it for 7p. With all the hate he could muster he called me stupid, moron and a fúcking scammer since its only listed as 2p on "Wftrading" I thought that he was a newbie but by the time that im about to reply Im already ignored. That S#&$ was funny as hell.

I hate people that do that....there's a list of people like that:

THE ALL CAPS TRADER WHO IS CONSTANTLY DOING THIS.

The trader who follows WFtrading.(Really? lol...)

The translater google.

The....

person who takes

....

....

forever

to

....

...reply...

.....

[AdFinitum]

Trading shouldnt be rocket science as in monitor the trade chat a few months and you will know what things are worth. In its current state it functions like a dark corner black market.

 

An auction house doesnt kill prices - it establishes a price level based on supply and demand. I can see that some people fear that the old prime parts will be much lower in value since every old player has a stack of them. But people have to cope with the fact that they cant overprize random stuff anymore that they actually got as a side drop when farming for much newer stuff. On the other hand rare and new items or max ranked mods will always be valuable. And it would give us a better opportunity to selll stuff that at the moment isnt even worth the work, e.g. selling Rare 5 mods.

 

Almost any modern game has an auction house and it works as intended in almost all cases.

Edited September 22, 2014 by AdFinitum

[angelsplight]

They aren't being "cheated". Those people just want ridiculous prices. It will be cheating if they also tell them that the price they want is the right price. 

[SeaUrchins]

Yes, some people can afford to buy rage for 40p, so what? They are rich, people who sell mods to them are lucky, get on with it.

 

Stop being jealous of someone else's plat.

[koolen]

as usually in economy, some people are ripped of

[Farlander]

Not a bad idea... maybe can show both bid and ask price info. But I think you mean the "MODE"?! And what is WTFtrading? WTF?

 

No...the mode is the most COMMON data point. The MEDIAN is the "middle." It's like a more stable form of average.

The mode would work too, but only if the trading system restricted you to certain pre-set denominations of plat.

 

As for what is WTFtrading, why are you asking me? Ask Google...Google answers those sorts of questions for a living, you know.

(Though your question proves my point rather nicely, so thank you.)