New / Unexperienced Players Being Cheated On Trades

[Ketec]

its not a scam if the people don't ask and do research first.

 

If you  buy an old car for high price, its your fault for not checking and researching first.
Sellers are always out for profit.

[Kz.Prime]

Well , everyone will learn right ? If they brought somthing overpriced before , eventually they will knowledge them soon enough .

[Nlim]

Apperently the lesson Diablo 3 taught with its action house hasn´t reached this place. The easier it is for player to trade the more people will participate regulary and the way warframe (and most loot heavy games in general) work is that you will have way more stuff you don´t need than you´ll buy so the market would be flooded with evrything which isn´t extremly rare which in turn means playing the game won´t bring any new gear for anyone outside hardcore farmers since just buying them from the market is too cheap and easy. Even mmos with auction house usually use a number of tricks to circumvent this issue for example by binding items to a character.

So any sweeping changes made to the trading system which make it easier will compromise the PvE section of the game - either by DE having to adjust drop tables or by replacing a huge part of the progression in the game through shopping. And I have a feeling people don´t seem to realize just how much supply there is likely out there - other games have items alot rare than 95% of warframe loot table and still manage to flood the market with them (just look at exalted orbs in PathofExil - an item most people won´t even drop in a regualar playthrough but gets traded in dozens or more for high profile trades).

[Ritchel]

"oh wow a 75% discount, must buy plat"

turns out 75% off is the original price lol

please. 

Edited October 8, 2014 by Ritchel

[(PSN)PoeticProdigal]

Ripping off is :

 

1. Buying 'A' and gets 'B'

2. Buying 'A' that is broken and not getting a refund.

3. Buying 'A' that is not as advertised.

4. Buying 'A' and got zilch.

 

Overpricing is not ripping off, that is why the knowledgeable are rich, and the uninformed pays more.

 

I hope you aren't seriously interjecting that statement about the rich and how they came to be that way.  Wow.

 

And let me add to your list of "ripping off" guidelines:

 

5. Selling 'A' at an absurdly high price by exploiting the inexperienced buyer's ignorance (which is due to poor or illegitimate means of determining fair prices)

 

its not a scam if the people don't ask and do research first.

 

If you  buy an old car for high price, its your fault for not checking and researching first.

Sellers are always out for profit.

 

Comparing the purchase of a car to an item in-game is illogical and impotent.

 

In the States, we have many tools at our disposal to research a car's value:  Kelley Blue Book, NADA, Cars.com, local banks, and numerous other websites that give ACCURATE information in regards to a car's value.  I assume other countries have similar avenues of research as well.

 

What tools do the new/inexperienced have to research an item's value in Warframe? 

 

1) Wtrading.com?  Really?  This site is a joke.

 

2) Monitor the chat channel to get a feel for fair prices?  With the lowballers and the price gougers, the kiddies desperate for plat and the Wolves of Wall Street, this is also not a viable option.  Also a joke.

 

3) Friends? Clanmates?  Depending upon their own ethics and/or trading experience, this also leaves room for questionable prices.

 

In the end of the matter the burden of responsibility lies with the seller to give a fair price.  To say that it is not a scam if the person is ignorant is arsinine.  This is how scams work.  They FEED off of and are propagated through ignorance.   Yes, sellers are out for profit.  There is definitely no debate there (lol).  That does not justify however the ways a seller should conduct himself in obtaining that profit. 

 

I am a firm believer that how you act even in a video game reflects how you act in the real world.  Call it "business", call it "economy",  I call it "deceptive and advantageous thievery".  We veterans should have the best grasp on the true value of any given item in the game, and should assume the responsibility of being fair traders.

 

(Believe it or not, I have no problem with the astronomical prices that invariably occur and that seller's obtain when a new prime warframe or weapon is introduced.  People who pay absurd prices just to be one of the first to have said items know exactly what they are getting into.  They are paying for their foolishness and impatience.  No debate on fairness with them.  They are also part of the problem.)

Edited October 8, 2014 by (PS4)PoeticProdigal

[Dalawantahr]

I hope you aren't seriously interjecting that statement about the rich and how they came to be that way.  Wow.

 

And let me add to your list of "ripping off" guidelines:

 

5. Selling 'A' at an absurdly high price by exploiting the inexperienced buyer's ignorance (which is due to poor or illegitimate means of determining fair prices)

 

 

Comparing the purchase of a car to an item in-game is illogical and impotent.

 

In the States, we have many tools at our disposal to research a car's value.  Kelley Blue Book, NADA, Cars.com, local banks, and numerous other websites that give ACCURATE information in regards to a car's value.  I assume other countries have similar avenues of research as well.

 

What tools do the new/inexperienced have to research an item's value in Warframe? 

 

1) Wtrading.com?  Really?  This site is a joke.

 

2) Monitor the chat channel to get a feel for fair prices?  With the lowballers and the price gougers, the kiddies desperate for plat and the Wolves of Wall Street, this is also not a viable option.  Also a joke.

 

3) Friends? Clanmates?  Depending upon their own ethics and/or trading experience, this also leaves room for questionable prices.

 

In the end of the matter the burden of responsibility lies with the seller to give a fair price.  To say that it is not a scam if the person is ignorant is arsinine.  This is how scams work.  They FEED off ignorance.   Yes, sellers are out for profit.  There is definitely no debate there (lol).  That does not justify however the ways a seller should conduct himself in obtaining that profit. 

 

I am a firm believer that how you act even in a video game reflects how you act in the real world.  Call it "business", call it "economy".  I call it "deceptive and advantageous thievery".  We veterans should have the best grasp on the true value of any given item in the game, and should assume the responsibility of being fair traders.

 

(Believe it or not, I have no problem with the astronomical prices that invariably occur and that seller's obtain when a new prime warframe or weapon is introduced.  People who pay absurd prices just to be one of the first to have said items know exactly what they are getting into.  They are paying for their foolishness and impatience.  No debate on fairness with them.  They are also part of the problem.)

Wow ok dude.

[Alphafox]

I hope you aren't seriously interjecting that statement about the rich and how they came to be that way.  Wow.

 

And let me add to your list of "ripping off" guidelines:

 

5. Selling 'A' at an absurdly high price by exploiting the inexperienced buyer's ignorance (which is due to poor or illegitimate means of determining fair prices)

 

 

Comparing the purchase of a car to an item in-game is illogical and impotent.

 

In the States, we have many tools at our disposal to research a car's value:  Kelley Blue Book, NADA, Cars.com, local banks, and numerous other websites that give ACCURATE information in regards to a car's value.  I assume other countries have similar avenues of research as well.

 

What tools do the new/inexperienced have to research an item's value in Warframe? 

 

1) Wtrading.com?  Really?  This site is a joke.

 

2) Monitor the chat channel to get a feel for fair prices?  With the lowballers and the price gougers, the kiddies desperate for plat and the Wolves of Wall Street, this is also not a viable option.  Also a joke.

 

3) Friends? Clanmates?  Depending upon their own ethics and/or trading experience, this also leaves room for questionable prices.

 

In the end of the matter the burden of responsibility lies with the seller to give a fair price.  To say that it is not a scam if the person is ignorant is arsinine.  This is how scams work.  They FEED off of and are propagated through ignorance.   Yes, sellers are out for profit.  There is definitely no debate there (lol).  That does not justify however the ways a seller should conduct himself in obtaining that profit. 

 

I am a firm believer that how you act even in a video game reflects how you act in the real world.  Call it "business", call it "economy",  I call it "deceptive and advantageous thievery".  We veterans should have the best grasp on the true value of any given item in the game, and should assume the responsibility of being fair traders.

 

(Believe it or not, I have no problem with the astronomical prices that invariably occur and that seller's obtain when a new prime warframe or weapon is introduced.  People who pay absurd prices just to be one of the first to have said items know exactly what they are getting into.  They are paying for their foolishness and impatience.  No debate on fairness with them.  They are also part of the problem.)

Fair price? What is a ''Fair price'' in your head? The seller is free to sell anything at the price he want. If he want to sell a ammo drum for 1k plat and that someone actually buy it, why is it the seller fault? Isn't it the buyer responsibility to make a small research before buying anything? Free market is Free market. If someone is fool enough to buy without making even the effort to know what they are buying, it's totally their problem 

[Nickeltoe]

Well some of the easily obtainable prime parts are sold as well, but with an AH those would flood instantly from farmers, we have unbelievable stock piles, believe me. Also nightmare mods etc.

 

But an auction house will basically allow every farmer to put everything on there. Since not every farmer uses the trade forum like I do. Hoarders and Scammers won't lose out, they'll just sell the rares and wait for the rest of the market to clear. Also silent agreements don't require talking, they happen when a farmer just glances at total stock versus selling price. No one is going to cut himself out of profit and there aren't going to be 200 crimson dervishes on offer.

 

I don't lose out with the current community though, I find it easy to do business. There is absolutely no suffering at Semshol's mega-mart. I have made over 1k platinum just by trading lol. What I feel is that people need to learn HOW to trade rather than seeking an auction house or an alternative to trading. If you learn its way, you will be okay.

 

Glad you are a good trader, gratz on the 1000 platinum!

 

Without rudeness though I don't want to know you or your mini-mart in game.  I want to click a button type in a search pattern and pick the lowest selling one whoever it is.  Trade should not require training, this is not Wallsreet Crooks the game, this is another Qausi MMO Shooter with loot.  Inflated prices due to most people being unwilling to deal with trade chat does not mean you are business savy, it means there is no alternative for people who can't sit there spamming "WTS this useless garbage others are selling, or maybe one rare you need" for 3 hours.   We wan't to click and buy the crap and then actually play the game, not play the trade chat.

 

Trade chat can still be around after auction house for all those future and current stock market traders to wheel and deal with each other while other play Ninja Missions.

[Nickeltoe]

Fair price? What is a ''Fair price'' in your head? The seller is free to sell anything at the price he want. If he want to sell a ammo drum for 1k plat and that someone actually buy it, why is it the seller fault? Isn't it the buyer responsibility to make a small research before buying anything? Free market is Free market. If someone is fool enough to buy without making even the effort to know what they are buying, it's totally their problem 

If you can get 1000k plat on for Ammo Drum in trade chat, then you should be able to get in in Auction house.  Auction house just allows everyone to participate in trading, not just a few privileged people who can spend hours in trade chat while others play the game.

[Alphafox]

If you can get 1000k plat on for Ammo Drum in trade chat, then you should be able to get in in Auction house.  Auction house just allows everyone to participate in trading, not just a few privileged people who can spend hours in trade chat while others play the game.

That was not my point at all. It all end with buyer awareness, don't buy something without knowing it's value. That's simple logic.

Personally I couldn't care less of a AH, it could go extremely well or extremely wrong.

[VaneHelsing]

Being a new player I think having something like a craigs list with category with pictures sorta like the codex would be cool so people could post what they want to sell and for how much and the person interested could pm them and get together to make a trade or sale. instead of having to watch crazy fast text scrolling by in trade chat. then leave it up to the people to decide either to post the price they want buy or sell for ect. 

 

That way people on average could get an idea of what things are selling for overall. Just a thought

[(PSN)PoeticProdigal]

That was not my point at all. It all end with buyer awareness, don't buy something without knowing it's value. That's simple logic.

Personally I couldn't care less of a AH, it could go extremely well or extremely wrong.

And my point is the buyer, because of the poor and illegitimate tools he has to know fair prices/value, is at a disadvantage. Inexperienced buyer awareness and his inability to become aware is EXACTLY my point.

And come on, in what dream world do you consider 1000 plat for an ammo drum fair? If you are a veteran, you should know. Be responsible and stop trying to justify preying on the ignorant.

BTW, if you feel that overpricing items is the only way to make profit, I can say in all honesty that I have made over 4k plat selling items, and not one "shady" trade on my conscience either. My profit was the direct result of long farming (the items in high demand) and fair prices.

Edited October 8, 2014 by (PS4)PoeticProdigal

[Alphafox]

And my point is the buyer, because of the poor and illegitimate tools he has to know fair prices/value, is at a disadvantage. Inexperienced buyer awareness and his inability to become aware is EXACTLY my point.

And come on, in what dream world do you consider 1000 plat for an ammo drum fair? If you are a veteran, you should know. Be responsible and stop trying to justify preying on the ignorant.

BTW, if you feel that overpricing items is the only way to make profit, I can say in all honesty that I have made over 4k plat selling items, and not one "shady" trade on my conscience either. My profit was the direct result of long farming (the items in high demand) and fair prices.

Errr... the 1000p for a ammo drum was obviously a example,but look like it was not obvious enough. I never did anything ''shady'' or ''ripped someone off''. All the profit I make is by undercutting everything. I'm saying that it's the responsibility of the buyer to know what he is buying. You wouldn't buy a house without knowing what it really worth, right? I'm not justifying preying on the ignorant or anything like it.

Just know what the hek you are buying and make research beforehand.

How hard is it to write: WTB [insert item name] for [insert amount of plat] and wait till you have a seller? If you don't have the patience to do that then feel free to buy it at any price.

 

There is always a way to learn,you just have to find it.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Alphafox

[Bansidhe]

It all end with buyer awareness, don't buy something without knowing it's value. That's simple logic.

 

 

You are right, it isn't wise to buy something without understanding its value. I think the key point you are missing is that it is exactly this purpose that an auction house would serve.

 

With a proper auction house in place all players, new and old, would be able to see at a glance what the consensus value for anything is. An auction house doesn't sit in lieu of someone researching the value of something but rather the point is the auction house would be how they go about researching it.

 

Edit: This is, or so I have been led to believe, a fast-paced game of space ninjas. As such it would make much more sense for us to spend the bulk of our time space-ninjaing at a fast pace rather than staring at trade chat. Much better to shop at a glance and spend our time in game rather than spend the bulk of our time shopping and a moment in game. 

Edited October 8, 2014 by Bansidhe

[Alphafox]

You are right, it isn't wise to buy something without understanding its value. I think the key point you are missing is that it is exactly this purpose that an auction house would serve.

 

With a proper auction house in place all players, new and old, would be able to see at a glance what the consensus value for anything is. An auction house doesn't sit in lieu of someone researching the value of something but rather the point is the auction house would be how they go about researching it.

 

Edit: This is, or so I have been led to believe, a fast-paced game of space ninjas. As such it would make much more sense for us to spend the bulk of our time space-ninjaing at a fast pace rather than staring at trade chat. Much better to shop at a glance and spend our time in game rather than spend the bulk of our time shopping and a moment in game. 

*Sigh*

I can see that you are quite new to the forum, so I will refer you to that thread.(even if it's directly under your nose in the GD forum)

Click here

[Bansidhe]

*Sigh*

I can see that you are quite new to the forum, so I will refer you to that thread.(even if it's directly under your nose in the GD forum)

Click here

 

Why did you link a thread I had already read? How does that constitute a response to my comment? Could you elaborate?

[Loswaith]

Offline trading. Like trading house or something. So everyone can see the prices. But why? Prices will go down if DE add something like that. => less platinum purchases. => less profit for PW DE, so not in near future and not in the form like steam community market or something like that.

Actually while prices will go down more people will get some of that platinum. 

The result actually means more platinum will be removed from the game.  This is because fewer people with most of the platinum means they only ever buy an item from DE once, thus removing platinum from the game.  If five times the people have some of that platinum the few have now thats five times the platinum being permanently removed from the game (presuming they all would buy the cosmetic/gear from DE).

The only way platinum gets into the market is when its bought from DE, and its only way out is when it is given back to DE.  IF its given to another player it can be traded on again and again, never actually leaving the market (even if it isnt being used at that point in time).

 

 

I sorta agree with this. As prices starts to drop, it will be harder for people to buy slots, since the profits made off from trading will be so little. I appreciate low prices, but they shouldn't be THAT low. I'm surprised at how easy you can get Loki Prime now.

While it will be harder to get the same amount of platinum from a single sale, all players will have a vastly larger market to sell to as well, so much cheaper to buy other things they may want (thus evening out the player market to much the same point). 

Players then that do buy platinum (something you really want all players doing, not just a minority) will also have more spare plat to buy their own slots with, thus also have more disposable platinum to buy things from other players.

 

Think about it, sure you may have to sell items at say 10% of the value now (as an example), but if you have 100 times the players seeing your sale, that may want to buy it, there is a good chance you will make vastly more sales (typically across a larger section of items as well), and likely to make each sale in much less time with little effort (while you can be off playing the game rather than sitting in a chat, dealing with dojo connection issues, lazy responders or players just wasting your time).

Edited October 8, 2014 by Loswaith

[likeitsillegal]

While technically not against the rules, it's a pretty disgusting practice, anyways. 

 

[(PSN)PoeticProdigal]

While technically not against the rules, it's a pretty disgusting practice, anyways. 

 

Hey!!! It's a "free market".  Hey!!! It's just "business".   Hey!!! It's just "economy".

 

Hey...it's called shady trading.

 

Thank you for this screenshot.  +1

 

Let's be honorable Tenno.

[Alphafox]

Hey!!! It's a "free market".  Hey!!! It's just "business".   Hey!!! It's just "economy".

 

Hey...it's called shady trading.

 

Thank you for this screenshot.  +1

 

Let's be honorable Tenno.

That picture doesn't hold any value..

It was taken by the poster who was ''selling'' it to someone a few minutes ago. Could have also been himself trying to prove a point with that kind of picture.

Yes it's just free market and business.

[likeitsillegal]

That picture doesn't hold any value..

It was taken by the poster who was ''selling'' it to someone a few minutes ago. Could have also been himself trying to prove a point with that kind of picture.

Yes it's just free market and business.

Uh, he was the one trying to sell to me?

Please tell me how I created that myself, oh wise and skeptical tin-foil hat man.

 

This is my first post in this thread and I hardly had some point or agenda to enforce. I didn't even believe there were people who preyed specifically on newbies until that little trade attempt.

Edited October 8, 2014 by likeitsillegal

[Alphafox]

Uh, he was the one trying to sell to me?

Please tell me how I created that myself, oh wise and skeptical tin-foil hat man.

 

This is my first post in this thread and I hardly had some point or agenda to enforce. I didn't even believe there were people who preyed specifically on newbies until that little trade attempt.

My bad my eyes derped~~ but it still seem extremly suspicious and very convenient for the thread that someone would say something like  that.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Alphafox

[xkillo32]

 

And this is wrong, there is not justification for an Auction House in this game whatsoever.  An Auction house would be nothing but disastrous, destroying the value of the vast majority of items that are tradeable and making it nearly impossible for anyone to earn plat. 

.  

uh how?

in the other games i played with an auction house i got rich quite easily

[Edgedemon]

People think Rhino Prime chassis is worth 500 plat. So many new people getting ripped off on Xbox lol

that's a offer and demand  issue they will go down in time, when loki prime went out on PC it was selling for 600 plat with ease now its like 20 a piece, nyx prime started much much lower and keeps falling, but i suggest you get one yourself and sell for 200 in the mean time win-win.

[NetSlayer]

During trades you should be able to mouse-over mods and see their average price sold for the day,  week, etc

 

Would solve alot of problems.