Update 15: Art Of The Kill [Wishlist]

[Seanjuju]

I like some of it.

 

I dislike some of it.

 

It's all amazing.

 

I personally have low expectations for 15 though I have no doubt it will amazing.

 

It could be much more amazing than it will be.

 

I have no doubt.

[notionphil]

Aside from  all the stuff you posed I would really want:

 

A revamped matchmaking system that ensures only players of close/near power are placed together, allowing for better scaling by the A.I., and overally improving gameplay for everyone (Veterans don't need to whine about the game being too easy, Newbies or low-level players don't have to struggle to keep up with veterans.)

 

A revamped Power/Ability system that punishes excessive use of certain types of abilities (kill the room, incapitate the room, etc...).

 

Reduced scaling of mods that increase base damage (Serration, Hornet Strike, etc...) and Elemental damage mods so that our DPS doesn't skyrocket as much as it does, and building pure damage is not the outright best customization77. Enemy armor and scaling would be adequately reduced to fit the new scalings. 

 

I like the revamped matchmaking idea.

 

Regarding the 'punishing use of OP abilities' I'm trying to move away from that direction with the addition of the Focus system. Once you're high enough Mastery to know better (maybe MR10 or so) you may want to earn Focus points to customize your build with variants of core mods.

 

Spamming powers and relying on OP gear will net you less Focus points than applying parkour, stealth, precision and mixing up your strategies. You will still earn more traditional rewards like affinity/drops/resources when rolfstomping content however, so there is a benefit to employing both playstyles.

 

So basically, I'm trying to introduce self-imposed challenge that gives you a reward.

[noveltyhero]

You know notionphil I actually had an idea to the master>disciple system, it was first encountered (by me anyway) in this old asian MMO called 9 Dragons. It had this system for end-game where masters would pick a disciple at Little Master 1 (level one within that system).

 

I suggest this is started at MR 12 or 15, giving some incentive to get to higher levels but not making everyone a master.  You rank up within the system, with all XP gained with your apprentice going towards your master status as well as any gear you might have.

 

The XP bonus is scaled, so the more apprentices the more XP gain for everyone. The longer the apprentice remains with its master the higher the level (this is a miniscule ranking system that is unaffected and resets if you change master). You can change freely but that is the downside less XP gain and any buffs

 

Which leads me to my next point, at "Master" you can choose a mini-buff that you and your apprentices have if you are both logged in (and for Warframe play in the same missions or at least same "system")

 

The rankings go as:

Little Master -1 -2 -3

Master -1 -2 -3

Grand Master -1 -2 -3

 

Or something of the sort up to 3 apprentices max. Available at the 3 mark except for first one available at rank 1 for Little Master.

 

I could provide more details if I remember some important stuff :)

[Vanadium]

Visions of good game...

Edited September 22, 2014 by Go4tfi5h

[notionphil]

You know notionphil I actually had an idea to the master>disciple system, it was first encountered (by me anyway) in this old asian MMO called 9 Dragons. It had this system for end-game where masters would pick a disciple at Little Master 1 (level one within that system).

 

I suggest this is started at MR 12 or 15, giving some incentive to get to higher levels but not making everyone a master.  You rank up within the system, with all XP gained with your apprentice going towards your master status as well as any gear you might have.

 

The XP bonus is scaled, so the more apprentices the more XP gain for everyone. The longer the apprentice remains with its master the higher the level (this is a miniscule ranking system that is unaffected and resets if you change master). You can change freely but that is the downside less XP gain and any buffs

 

Which leads me to my next point, at "Master" you can choose a mini-buff that you and your apprentices have if you are both logged in (and for Warframe play in the same missions or at least same "system")

 

The rankings go as:

Little Master -1 -2 -3

Master -1 -2 -3

Grand Master -1 -2 -3

 

Or something of the sort up to 3 apprentices max. Available at the 3 mark except for first one available at rank 1 for Little Master.

 

I could provide more details if I remember some important stuff :)

 

I love the ideas of a user-selectable mini buff, via the old Kung Fu school concepts...eg:

 

"Watch out for Master Notionphil's students, their strikes can penetrate steel with a bare fist".

 

"I've heard that Master NoveltyHero's students can disappear into thin air without leaving a trace!"

 

Very cool. Sounds like it would be a great 15.5 release..lol

[APBladeX]

Did someone say Focus?

[Feallike]

U15:

 

Archwings

 

Heavy Melee buff

 

New huds, players can now interact with eachother

 

DS changes

 

Various bugs and fixes

 

New infested enemies

 

New enemies

 

Kubrow changes

 

New mission

 

 

Thats all i remember thats Confirmed for U15. Proxy wars might also come but i doubt it.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Feallike

[Jokubas]

New Sensei/Disciple System

 

I hate to sound dismissive but, while the idea is nice in theory, I've never seen such a mentoring system work out. The three major reasons usually being:

 

1) Hurts socially anxious players, both veteran and new.

2) Hurts players who have already recruited everyone they know.

3) Min-maxers will find a way to maximize rewards and minimize helping new players.

4) Players who legitimately want to help friends will regardless.

 

New Proxy Wars Quest System - Lore and Challenge Await!

 

I don't really know enough about this to comment.

 

New Focus Progression System - create unique frame and weapon builds

 

Is this what the real focus system is supposed to be? Those trade-offs sound more like they'd just be min-maxed right back into straight damage, like mods are today.

 

New Earned Cosmetic System - "Honor of the Lotus" lets you display skill in style

 

I didn't like this idea as tied to the mentoring system, but in general, an achievement based cosmetic-unlocking system would be nice. I personally think locking all cosmetics behind a pay-wall is a mistake a lot of people are blind to simply because of games such as League of Legends being so ridiculously popular regardless.
 

Melee Changes - Charge attacks are back, with a twist, to add fun and utility to melee

 

I really don't see what the harm is in a melee attack that you hold for a bigger attack. I never saw the charge attacks, but they can't be that much less interesting than the combos, which may look fancier, but end up moot between the awkward setups for some of them and the general uselessness of non-quick-melee later on.
 

Parkour and Evasion Changes - we're putting the Ninja back in Warframe!

 

I honestly don't know how you'd tie this to a skill system that wouldn't just lead to people wall-running in random situations for no other reason than to get credit. However, I definitely agree with smoothing out of some of the parkour, and giving some combat bonuses while doing some of it is interesting. I love parkour, but right now, a lot of the parkour is actually slower than your normal movement, and I dread when my Warframe gets to close to a corner during a jump and decides to do a slow vault or, worse, a perpendicular wall-run, when all I was trying to do was move forward quickly.

 

New Proc System - Procs now match your first two mod slots!

 

I don't really know how I feel about this. It seems kinda awkward, but I probably wouldn't worry about it anyway, so instead my feedback will be: if such a system is obvious, make it obvious on the UI. The current mod order thing is a little unintuitive, but simple enough to not be too much of a problem. Anything more complex will need to be clear.

 

New Stealth System - Run missions un-alerted for bonus rewards!

 

I think a few other things need to be tweaked when it comes to consistency and clarity before true stealth gameplay will feel fair, but these are a lot of good ideas. The alarms needs to be something that we take seriously.
 

Enemy Changes

 

This is too vague to say much on, but I'm not sure I'm fond of the hard line that the changes happen around.

 

Enemy - Introducing Champions!

 

This is an interesting idea that will spice things up. Would have to see how something like this would go in practice, though, to really give feedback. It'd be really easy to make these just as avoidable as anything else, or make the bigger named assassination targets seem tame in comparison, which I don't think should be.

 

Enemy - Overall Enemy Changes

Again, I'm concerned about the hard change at 23. It runs the risk of changing the game too much for players who may be slow or unable to adapt to the changes, and it would feel fairly arbitrary to boot. And honestly, during Gate Crash, weak points with invincibility everywhere else feel really forced and awkward on humanoid enemies (that feels best on giant robots and monsters).

 

I liked your thread about better dumb enemies though, and I think that's kinda what you're trying to pitch here. More enemies like the shield Grineer I think are a good idea, assuming their defenses remain relevant later on. I'd actually argue a reverse approach, if anything. The defenses are always there, but in early levels, to ease you into it, they don't matter as much. The weak points remain just as weak throughout leveling though, so it doesn't make you feel less powerful as you level, just makes you have to be more precise.

 

I have to congratulate you on the sniper tell. On nightmare, the snipers honestly are a threat to me, so making them more powerful is scary if I want to do content like that, but giving them a tell is a great way to balance it so that it remains challenging, but fair, an important point people tend to miss.

 

Enemy - New Enemies

 

Looks like this kinda ties into the former point. I might nitpick the danger of having too many special enemies all at once, but I already know you agree it's best to have mostly fodder with one or two challenges, rather than a chaotic blend of interconnected special rules.
 

Balance Changes - Introducing Balance 2.0

Your trait system will most likely be min-maxed, but no balance is perfect, and this will be better than what we have now probably.

 

 

 

Aside from  all the stuff you posed I would really want:

 

A revamped matchmaking system that ensures only players of close/near power are placed together, allowing for better scaling by the A.I., and overally improving gameplay for everyone (Veterans don't need to whine about the game being too easy, Newbies or low-level players don't have to struggle to keep up with veterans.)

 

A revamped Power/Ability system that punishes excessive use of certain types of abilities (kill the room, incapitate the room, etc...).

 

Reduced scaling of mods that increase base damage (Serration, Hornet Strike, etc...) and Elemental damage mods so that our DPS doesn't skyrocket as much as it does, and building pure damage is not the outright best customization77. Enemy armor and scaling would be adequately reduced to fit the new scalings. 

The matchmaking system is an interesting point. I remember when I first started, I actually was playing with other new players. When we got to Jackal, we got torn apart. And then I had a high level friend help me, and we destroyed him so thoroughly it wasn't fun, and the rest of the game pretty much became like that.

 

However, with the number of nodes, a limitation like that probably wouldn't change much, at best. Honestly, I think the number of nodes need to be drastically cut back on. Give the progression through the system a light narrative (something that wouldn't feel too out of place if you're repeating it, but eases you into things), and make high level play more Alert style, where you go where you're needed without a linear path.

 

Finally, I agree with the mod scaling. I honestly think one of the biggest problems right now is that balance is impossible as long as a handful of core mods scale so ridiculously well. You can't really balance when the power curve, even after hitting "max level", shoots up into an almost vertical line. It's gonna hurt a lot of players, but I think it's necessary in the long term.
 

 

[(XBOX)Skode]

I actually drooled a little reading that OP... there is just so much of it that makes so much sense! I would take even half of that should it come tor fruition and funny enough a lot of it addresses some of the more recent topics/rants people have had on the forum around various issues this past week.

[-Xenomorph.Queen-]

i only can say 

 

 

 

 

 

DITTO

[Xana_Skullsunder]

I want this badly. If DE can deliver even a fraction of what's on this list, it'd be incredible.

[notionphil]

An update like this would hype me up so much more than Archwing.

 

I guess that doesn't mean much when my hype for Archwing is at zero, but I meant that as a compliment.

Thanks. Much like you, my hype for Archwing is literally as zero because I am not interested in playing a flying shooter game mode. I can also promise that exactly 0 people started playing WF because they wanted to fly around and shoot ships.

Like every other single warframe customer, I signed up to play Warframe for fast paced space ninja co-OP action, and I'd really love for DE to refocus on improving that.

People get hyped because new=hype. People got hyped about focus and proxy wars when they were mentioned...but that hype died many months ago when they never showed.

What's next, a Tenno driving game? Tenno Mini game party? Tenno point and click puzzler? Fine, add them but please get the core experience to be at least 8/10 before turning sideways!

[zoboso]

my only hope for arcwing is that the stealth & mobility stuff functionality starts to infest the main game.

[noveltyhero]

 

New Sensei/Disciple System

 

I hate to sound dismissive but, while the idea is nice in theory, I've never seen such a mentoring system work out. The three major reasons usually being:

 

1) Hurts socially anxious players, both veteran and new.

2) Hurts players who have already recruited everyone they know.

3) Min-maxers will find a way to maximize rewards and minimize helping new players.

4) Players who legitimately want to help friends will regardless.

I've seen this in action and all it did was enforce connections and relations between veterans (due to high level requirement to become a master) and newbies (due to their extreme need of XP to progress faster). Even if people add their friends and whatnot (which would be pointless because their friends could miss out on exclusive rewards unless they are new to the game) only benefits can come from that kind of system. Assuming you don't get the title of the master easily.

 

It hurt nobody in 9Dragons, due to sheer amount of players everybody would be looking around for disciples and masters each with their own agendas and requirements (eg. loyalty to certain faction). I fail to see who it would hurt here assuming the system is done well and rewards are balanced and it takes a lot of time to master that system, since it should be a very long term goal.

[AlienOvermind]

Without further ado, for your Warframe theorizing pleasure, I present to you the patch notes for U15, if I were behind the scenes.

I think I would prefer your U15 over realistic "Archwing / Excalibur nerf / Bugfixes"-version.

Edited September 23, 2014 by AlienOvermind

[Cerebrum123]

I would like to see some gamepad optimizations. This game is on two consoles now, I should be able to play without keyboard and mouse(I have my reasons, please don't go into the "keyboard/mouse is master race", I'm not a hardcore player, I don't care). 

[Daragnous]

+1

[noveltyhero]

I would like to see some gamepad optimizations. This game is on two consoles now, I should be able to play without keyboard and mouse(I have my reasons, please don't go into the "keyboard/mouse is master race", I'm not a hardcore player, I don't care). 

LOL Why would you ever play with gamepad?

 

Jk.

 

I agree on one thing, everyone should be allowed to play a game however they want controls wise, like that guy playing CS:GO using the steering wheel :D

[Boatsniper]

New Sensei/Disciple System

 

Create a lasting bond of mentorship between new and veteran Tenno; rewarding and challenging both parties.

 

Veteran Tenno:

• Select a Disciple (student) who is at least 4 Mastery ranks below you, and guide them in the ways of the Tenno. 
• Create conclave-capped challenge missions for them in the Dojo's NEW Simulation Room. Choose enemies, tileset and conditions (like fire, 2x melee damage etc).
• Earn 'Honor of the Lotus' points when your student's mastery rank increases; exchange these points for rare cosmetics such as character smoke trails, lisette decorations and custom bullet decals!
• Gain 25% bonus Affinity (and drop rate) in missions with your Disciple, when your Conclave is no more than 25% higher than theirs.
• You may have one student (at the same time) for each 5 mastery ranks you possess.
• Treat your Disciple well, for they offer you great status within the ranks of the Tenno!

Young Tenno:

• Select a Sensei to give you advice, guidance and assistance on Proxy War quests to gain access to critical mods and resources.
• Call upon your Sensei in time of need, and he (or his spectre) will instantly appear and assist you out of a tight spot, one time per day.
• Send them inbox messages to ask questions about key gameplay features
• Not getting enough help? Find a New Senei in Recruiting Chat or Clan Chat. You give great benefits to your Sensi, so make sure he's doing the same for you!

This would not be a healthy addition to the game.

 

You're trying to give a formal reward to players helping each other. Not only would it be abused to no end, player-to-player assistance has a personal aspect to it, one that should not have an artificial reward attached to it. You don't get paid for making a friend, or by teaching someone to cook.

 

There is a reason why no other multiplayer games have something like this. Virtue is its own reward.

[Freeburn_Sage]

Thanks. Much like you, my hype for Archwing is literally as zero because I am not interested in playing a flying shooter game mode. I can also promise that exactly 0 people started playing WF because they wanted to fly around and shoot ships.

Like every other single warframe customer, I signed up to play Warframe for fast paced space ninja co-OP action, and I'd really love for DE to refocus on improving that.

People get hyped because new=hype. People got hyped about focus and proxy wars when they were mentioned...but that hype died many months ago when they never showed.

What's next, a Tenno driving game? Tenno Mini game party? Tenno point and click puzzler? Fine, add them but please get the core experience to be at least 8/10 before turning sideways!

While I can see why you may not personally want Archwing or care much for it, I do have to say that others may not share such opinions. Personally, I'm quite psyched for Archwing just because I'm a big fan of flight and space fighting in games (Battlefront 2's space missions come to mind). However, I do agree that the core of the game should be addressed before such additions are made. Archwing and such are completely new features, almost separate from the original experience, and can be appreciated as such. I believe the reason the hype for Archwing is so low is because everybody is looking for fixes, changes, and whatnot on their already existing experience and assume that the problems and poor decisions will only corrupt the new experience as well. Imagine for a moment if the game was created or fixed in such ways that you talk about in your threads (Which are works of art, by the way. Seriously wish you could be on the design team.), and then Archwing was announced. Perhaps there'd be more interest. 

 

Also, even though you were joking, if a Tenno driving game featuring Tenno on Tron-like bikes driving really fast shooting corpus/grineer were to come out (After fixing everything, of course), it'd be pretty cool. 

 

Apologies if I'm bad at wording things right now, I've just returned from a string of tests so my brain is mush, but hopefully you get my point.

[Boatsniper]

-accidentaldoublepostpleaseignore-

Edited September 23, 2014 by Boatsniper

[notionphil]

While I can see why you may not personally want Archwing or care much for it, I do have to say that others may not share such opinions. Personally, I'm quite psyched for Archwing just because I'm a big fan of flight and space fighting in games (Battlefront 2's space missions come to mind). However, I do agree that the core of the game should be addressed before such additions are made. Archwing and such are completely new features, almost separate from the original experience, and can be appreciated as such. I believe the reason the hype for Archwing is so low is because everybody is looking for fixes, changes, and whatnot on their already existing experience and assume that the problems and poor decisions will only corrupt the new experience as well. Imagine for a moment if the game was created or fixed in such ways that you talk about in your threads (Which are works of art, by the way. Seriously wish you could be on the design team.), and then Archwing was announced. Perhaps there'd be more interest. 

 

Also, even though you were joking, if a Tenno driving game featuring Tenno on Tron-like bikes driving really fast shooting corpus/grineer were to come out (After fixing everything, of course), it'd be pretty cool. 

 

Apologies if I'm bad at wording things right now, I've just returned from a string of tests so my brain is mush, but hopefully you get my point.

 

Thanks for your thoughts, and please also excuse any rushed tone as I'm writing in a hurry and after a long day. I didn't mean that no-one is excited for archwing, or the hype is low. You said it best... "archwing is almost separate from the original experience". I don't want a new "experience". I want the "experience" I signed up for to get to a point where the core issues are all working as intended.

 

My point was that literally no one, as in zero people, started playing Warframe to experience space flight combat.

 

And probably nearly everyone, as in ~80%+ of players started playing Warframe to experience awesome badass space ninja powers, shooting and melee co-op.

 

It's important to remember your base. I'm all for variety, but I'd love to see at least equal effort on getting the core working as on building "new experiences"...much like Dark Sectors and Kubrows...which essentially add nothing to the 'day in, day out' playing of WF a month or so after they are live.

[notionphil]

This would not be a healthy addition to the game.

 

You're trying to give a formal reward to players helping each other. Not only would it be abused to no end, player-to-player assistance has a personal aspect to it, one that should not have an artificial reward attached to it. You don't get paid for making a friend, or by teaching someone to cook.

 

There is a reason why no other multiplayer games have something like this. Virtue is its own reward.

 

"You don't get paid for teaching someone to cook."

 

http://www.surlatable.com/category/Web-Cooking-Root/Cooking+Classes

 

.....I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

 

 

Ok, snark aside, even real combat teachers get paid to train students. Even historical kung fu schools usually had school dues.

 

And in the videogame sense, I'm shocked that you aren't aware of mentor programs (with rewards) in many multiplayer games. I'm not re-inventing the wheel here - I'm just putting it on the car.

 

http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Mentoring

 

Abuse? Like what, getting 25% bonus affinity if you can multi-box accounts, and play with a lowered conclave?

 

You can already get more bonus just by playing a dark sector.

 

Or are you expecting people are going to make fake accounts, and then constantly mastery rank them up...to get 'Honor of the Lotus' points (which only provide cosmetics), which they could simply get by playing quests/gaining achievements in game with their main character?

 

Seems like a pretty silly 'exploit' to me.

Edited September 24, 2014 by notionphil

[Lord.Finster]

Thats what update 15 should have been. Perfecting and diversifying the basics.

Don't get me wrong, Archwing will probably be fun. I'd just rather have them polish and deepen their original concepts.

[noveltyhero]

"You don't get paid for teaching someone to cook."

 

http://www.surlatable.com/category/Web-Cooking-Root/Cooking+Classes

 

.....I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

 

 

Ok, snark aside, even real combat teachers get paid to train students. Even historical kung fu schools usually had school dues.

 

And in the videogame sense, I'm shocked that you aren't aware of mentor programs (with rewards) in many multiplayer games. I'm not re-inventing the wheel here - I'm just putting it on the car.

 

http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Mentoring

 

Abuse? Like what, getting 25% bonus affinity if you can multi-box accounts, and play with a lowered conclave?

 

You can already get more bonus just by playing a dark sector.

 

Or are you expecting people are going to make fake accounts, and then constantly mastery rank them up...to get 'Honor of the Lotus' points (which only provide cosmetics), which they could simply get by playing quests/gaining achievements in game with their main character?

 

Seems like a pretty silly 'exploit' to me.

Even then, if somebody goes to that length for the points they probably deserve it. I can get 5 mastery ranks before someone would get 5 points on their own