Sniper Charging

[Eggs-DE-]

There are two main differences between the Vectis and the Dread/Paris Prime. Vectis is clan tech, Dread is assassin drop, and Paris P is a Void drop so they're essentially equivalent more or less in tiers. The Vectis has half the crit chance, but a tad bit more damage(25). Then there's their weapon categories. Snipers and bows have three mechanically differences. Bows will do significantly less damage when uncharged(half) and are non-hitscan. When charged, however, they balance it out with a crit chance high enough to do at least eight times the damage with only two mods and have innate punch-through/ragdolls of death. This difference gives the bows an advantage (I love my bows), however slight or significant you may believe, unless you have god tier Primed Chamber. This means an extremely small portion of players have a sniper that has more damage per shot than a bow. 

 

This advantage comes from a disadvantage. Bows have the option to charge their attacks, significantly improving both their single target and group damage. So why not add an option for sniper rifles(sorry Lanka...)? I realize my arguments aren't very powerful but it took a bit of a work and I really only wanted to add a charging option for snipers. I realize that snipers are almost up to par with bows if not already. Chances are this idea will make snipers be above par but having stronger weapons are nice, right? The fuel for this idea came from another work of fiction, SAO II. The sniper in this show takes a bit to fire her shot and when she does, the floor blows apart when she misses and people get a giant hole if she hits.

 

like this :O

 

My plan for this execution is you can charge the shot by holding both the fire(default LMB) and aim(default RMB) buttons. This is to put emphasis on snipers being long range weapons that use precise aim. The charge speed should be long enough to not do this on accident but fast enough that your damage over time isn't lowered too much/at all. This will empower your shot because

 

1)void magic

 

2)secondary weapon mechanic

 

3)super bullets

 

and gives you a big chunk of extra damage and some punch through. Personally I don't believe charging the shot should grant crit, and instead it should devastate your enemy's body with pure damage alone. This seems to be the path DE wants snipers to follow seeing as how all snipers have more damage than an uncharged bow shot besides the Lanka(Lanka pls), but still only have 25% crit chance. Some players thought snipers should get punch through, but I thought DE didn't want to implement this because you don't need to charge your shot. IRC only charge weapons had innate punch-through.

 

The third law of motion applies(unless space pirate ninjas in space), however, and the immense amount of power being shot forward is also applied backwards i.e. towards the shooter. I believe you should be pushed back a distance based on your base run speed(can't have Vanguard Rhino Prime being pushed more than Mag right?). This is due to the larger, bulkier frames being slower(I think that's true for all of them) so the push back won't be as much with their extra weight. An optional add on to this is there is a recovery time that the armor heavy frames can ignore after this push. To counter this negative effect, holding crouch puts you in a prone position while zoomed in that negates both the knockback and recovery. You take some time to get up to compensate though. Zooming out while prone does not make you get up for surveillance's sake.

 

Just a fun option I would like in the game.

 

TL;DR Add bonus damage charge option for snipers 

 

[Zoid25]

I like how DE has implemented Snipers and Bows right now. I do not think this will be a good change for Warframe.

[GinKenshin]

mate, never take an idea from a pathetic, worthless and uncreative anime like SAO 

[Variatas]

Making snipers MORE awkward to use in a game where the emphasis on mobility already makes them questionable?  That's what I'd call counterproductive.

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

So, you're saying that thousands of years later they still haven't found a way to completely negate the recoil on a gun?

[Eggs-DE-]

So, you're saying that thousands of years later they still haven't found a way to completely negate the recoil on a gun?

Thousands of years after the most intelligent race has died off and the second most advanced were in cryosleep, ....wait a minute the gorgon has recoil so

 

uwotm8 

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

Thousands of years after the most intelligent race has died off and the second most advanced were in cryosleep, ....wait a minute the gorgon has recoil so

 

uwotm8 

Yeah, but that recoil isn't enough to physically push you back a few meters.

[Eggs-DE-]

Yeah, but that recoil isn't enough to physically push you back a few meters.

It's not a void magic super bullet though is it? MAGIC

[Vandoore]

mate, never take an idea from a pathetic, worthless and uncreative anime like SAO 

Rage, so much rage at your statement. XD

 

Interesting Idea and deployment, the charged sniper was thrown around the forums a while ago. Doubt anything will happen with them. Bows are just the superfoods right now.

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

It's not a void magic super bullet though is it? MAGIC

Eh, do what you want. Snipers will still be useless in PvE regardless.

[Eggs-DE-]

Making snipers MORE awkward to use in a game where the emphasis on mobility already makes them questionable?  That's what I'd call counterproductive.

This addition is supposed to be used at a relatively safe distance. I mean you don't see examples of people running around, aiming for a short time, then shooting one shot while at a short distance from the target do you? The prone option is something in real life, you use it for a specific conditions such as a place high and harder to shoot back at. Personally, this game is focused on assassins and assassins do have the long range killing variety (especially in modern day movies).

[Rekkou]

This addition is supposed to be used at a relatively safe distance. I mean you don't see examples of people running around, aiming for a short time, then shooting one shot while at a short distance from the target do you?

 

The ability to do that is what makes snipers viable in game regardless of the mission condition. Real life logic only makes snipers become more obsolete. This is a game where enemy can spawn inside the empty room right behind you. Prone and camping will only turn you into a sitting duck

[Wurdyburd]

While a concept that would give snipers more damage, more damage isn't the problem with snipers.

With a bow I can stand in a hallway, shoot down it, and nail 8 guys to the wall. With a sniper, I can get two, MAYBE three, and only if I'm using Shred or something.

The entire problem with snipers is that they don't have a niche in a game where you're emptying a thousand rounds a minute at an endless onslaught of enemies, with the occasional heavy unit. It's simply more effective to just stand in front of your enemy and fill them with lead than it is to stay waaay back and aim through a scope at some poor sod's head. The problem is, killing enemies quickly, or multiple at the same time, is contrary to a sniper rifle's entire point. Unless DE can pull something completely sideways that makes snipers viable in a game that's designed to swarm you, they'll never see their full potential.

[Eggs-DE-]

The ability to do that is what makes snipers viable in game regardless of the mission condition. Real life logic only makes snipers become more obsolete. This is a game where enemy can spawn inside the empty room right behind you. Prone and camping will only turn you into a sitting duck

The example I used is if you're using the proposed technique. If you're that close you don't need to use the scope. I hope everyone realizes these are options and you never have to use them if you feel it's inappropriate for your situation. If you think you'll become a sitting duck, don't use the option.

 

While a concept that would give snipers more damage, more damage isn't the problem with snipers.

With a bow I can stand in a hallway, shoot down it, and nail 8 guys to the wall. With a sniper, I can get two, MAYBE three, and only if I'm using Shred or something.

The entire problem with snipers is that they don't have a niche in a game where you're emptying a thousand rounds a minute at an endless onslaught of enemies, with the occasional heavy unit. It's simply more effective to just stand in front of your enemy and fill them with lead than it is to stay waaay back and aim through a scope at some poor sod's head. The problem is, killing enemies quickly, or multiple at the same time, is contrary to a sniper rifle's entire point. Unless DE can pull something completely sideways that makes snipers viable in a game that's designed to swarm you, they'll never see their full potential.

I did suggest adding punch through to the charged attacks. Innate punch through is currently restricted to charged attacks only so adding this will remove the block while also adding in reason to why the sniper can attack multiple enemies - the bullet destroyed everything in its path. If you use the charged attack, its playstyle will be similar to bows when using the Vectis. Aim for enemies in a line, charge(I do this before step one when using bows though), shoot, reload, repeat.

[Wurdyburd]

I did suggest adding punch through to the charged attacks. Innate punch through is currently restricted to charged attacks only so adding this will remove the block while also adding in reason to why the sniper can attack multiple enemies - the bullet destroyed everything in its path. If you use the charged attack, its playstyle will be similar to bows when using the Vectis. Aim for enemies in a line, charge(I do this before step one when using bows though), shoot, reload, repeat.

It may just be me [or how I use bows], but it almost feels as if bows end up hitting more enemies per shot than the Lanka, with punchthrough, does simply because of the speed of the projectile. Like it has more chances to hit them or something. Also, because the arrow carries them back, compared to the Lanka which has it's projectile stop after a point.

 

Alternatively, we could go for a lancing laser of some kind. Similar to how the Flux Rifle or other beam weapons work, but on full charge, creates a long beam with no range limitations, that hangs in the air for perhaps 0.5-1 second. Enemies that are caught in the initial strike take additional damage the longer they stay in it, and enemies outside it will start taking damage if they walk into it. It would help distinguish snipers from bows, making one a projectile and one a straight vector in a given direction, while giving variety to how enemies are damaged. Perhaps it could also be a charge weapon, and full-charges either create a larger beam or make them last longer in the air.

Thoughts?

[Variatas]

Honestly, just about the only thing I can think of that would make the sniper rifles less of a for-the-novelty toy would be to make them more of cannons.  Have them gib enemies and cause a spray of damaging chunks, much like how bows do damage with the flying ragdolls.

Giving them pushback recoil just penalizes a weapon type that's already mediocre at best.  Necessitating going prone adds a huge set of animation needs to them, while fighting the tone of the entire game.  There are only a handful of tiles in the game right now that have anything approaching the size needed to make trading mobility (and therefore protection) for offense close to a good idea, and they are pretty much only used in corridor-rush mission types, so all you're going to accomplish is ensuring that you're left behind.

I'm all for giving sniper rifles a bit of love, but I just don't think that's going to happen by ignoring the way the game works; that's the root of their mediocrity in the first place.

[Asgaroth22]

Sniping is actually fun to me on open tilesets, in particular defenses (Sechura), where I can sit on a crate and smite enemies swarming from doors one by one. It fits to my playstyle, where I usually pick out targets like eximuses, ancients and so, ocassionally stuffing a bullet in low-threat targets. But snipers could use a buff of some sort, as they are rather fun-weapons, not real threat on high levels.

My proposition is: add more open maps, so snipers can find some cover and shoot at enemies, or add some bonus to damage when shooting at more valuable targets, so a sniper that deals with all those filthy parasites and annoying ancients can be somewhat handy. Snipers really should blow the enemy to pieces with one shoot. Or add way more punch-through. Sniper rifles we have today can shoot through 30-cm reinforced concrete wall and still kill the target. It shouldn't be a problem for an unkown future superhuman civilization to construct a sniper rifle that can deal with 5 targets at once, or kill a target behind a wall?