Is Trinity Getting A Rework?

[kirean3464]

There was no sign. nor reason, for the last Blessing nerf either. 

 

Blessing is actually MORE powerful NOW than it was before the nerf. That would logically suggest an incoming nerf.

thats the exact same fit as there ever was on trinity quick thinking rage lets hope she gets up again and casts blessing? i dunno ill try the new trinity and judge for myself but it still presents the fundamental problem with her she is not needed until high wave and will most likely bottom out in a wave or two when the heals actually begin to matter, but hey ill see for myself when i finally get back internet

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

thats the exact same fit as there ever was on trinity quick thinking rage lets hope she gets up again and casts blessing? i dunno ill try the new trinity and judge for myself but it still presents the fundamental problem with her she is not needed until high wave and will most likely bottom out in a wave or two when the heals actually begin to matter, but hey ill see for myself when i finally get back internet

Before you had two great but diametrically opposed builds for Trinity. 

 

You had unranked blessing spam with short duration Trinity that let you spam heals but you couldn't do much with DR. 

 

Then you had max Blessing with long duration Trinity that could not spam heals but could keep you at high damage reduction at all times.

 

Now, you can have max heals, max DR with good duration, and spam heals.  There is no longer any need for build diversity and she can do it all perfectly. 

[kirean3464]

what diversity was there in the older fits? your min heals bottomed out the moment your dps got high the same for damage reduction and you had to shoot yourself in the foot like a moron and hope quick thinking saved you if you went to far, at least now you can build for heals and damage reduction that will most likely bottom out a few waves later anyway, and it still does not address the point she is not even required up until then anyway, if that's the way things are now then "good" she can actually do her job again without being op, forcing a direct contradiction on builds does not force a diverse playstyle its just two fits and which one you feel most comfortable attempting to do your job with 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

what diversity was there in the older fits?  . . . forcing a direct contradiction on builds does not force a diverse playstyle

 

I just detailed the two differing philosophies. Trinity was diverse because she didn't have a single-best build. The builds were diametrically opposed in that they were the exact opposite of one another, and if you built towards one then you were building away from the other.

 

Vocabulary Words for the Day

diverse : - adj - differing from one another : adj differing from one another

diametrically : - adj - in direct opposition; being at opposite extremes

[kirean3464]

I just detailed the two differing philosophies. Trinity was diverse because she didn't have a single-best build. The builds were diametrically opposed in that they were the exact opposite of one another, and if you built towards one then you were building away from the other.

 

Vocabulary Words for the Day

diverse : - adj - differing from one another : adj differing from one another

diametrically : - adj - in direct opposition; being at opposite extremes

 

so its a good thing to you that to pull off one trick you have to severely hamper yourself in some other way? that to me is complete rubbish, thats like saying hey you can have a extra magazine attachment on your sniper rifle but your not allowed a scope, that just makes for silly play and again, horrible balance thats the same argument as "why not just strap on dragon keys and low gear to gimp yourself" manditory gimping should never happen

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

so its a good thing to you that to pull off one trick you have to severely hamper yourself in some other way? that to me is complete rubbish, thats like saying hey you can have a extra magazine attachment on your sniper rifle but your not allowed a scope, that just makes for silly play and again, horrible balance

So you think that there should only be one gun in the game?  It should have the best scope, the best fire rate, the best damage, the ability to CC, a massive AoE, the ability to crit, et cetera, right?

 

The entire point of balance is that there should never be one item/build/etc that is the absolute best at everything.

 

Edit:  The philosophies were diametrically opposed, but that doesn't mean you had to play either to its extreme. They were simply the end caps; everything in between was just as viable. 

Edited September 25, 2014 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[TrinityPrime]

There was no sign. nor reason, for the last Blessing nerf either. 

 

Blessing is actually MORE powerful NOW than it was before the nerf. That would logically suggest an incoming nerf.

 

Well I can't speak for 'signs' but the reasoning was clearly to have blessing affected by power strength so during the gate crash event it didn't become the single last usable ability while all other abilities were hit with maximum -duration -strength -range.

 

They only made it spammable to appease the backlash from what is left of the Trinity users.

 

Edit: 

 

I am expecting DE to nerf Trinity at least one more time.  They'll hit her in the Link.

Edited September 25, 2014 by KnotOfMetal

[StinkyPygmy]

The thing that always makes me laugh about Trin is when people claimed the only way she was viable was with the old blowing yourself up trick. I did it once for lulz. Then went straight back to my max dmg reduction build without a penta and continued to keep my team alive effectively..

 

But the forums will be the forums eh?

 

 

so its a good thing to you that to pull off one trick you have to severely hamper yourself in some other way? that to me is complete rubbish, thats like saying hey you can have a extra magazine attachment on your sniper rifle but your not allowed a scope, that just makes for silly play and again, horrible balance thats the same argument as "why not just strap on dragon keys and low gear to gimp yourself" manditory gimping should never happen

No risk high reward is a terrible way to build mechanics.

Not being able to use a scope on a sniper in favor of a larger magazine is a bad example because there is no logical reason why one would render the other incompatible, where as using corrupted mods to max out one area at the cost of another makes some logical sense as far as the law of space magic is concerned. Even now corrupted mods are still pretty much tiny risk, insanely high reward. Gimping one factor in favor if specilisation of another area is the good kind of gimping (back to the high risk, high reward scenario). Because if you don't wish to partake in that kind of extreme specialization you don't have to worry about crippling something. You will be more well rounded, but not specialised. Thats still a very viable build.

The bad type of gimping is similar to how gate crash event went. When its forced on the player and is the only method used to create difficulty.

 

A better example then your scope/mag scenario is closer to having the choice of chucking an open choke on a shotgun, which will give you some nice spread and be highly effective at close ranges, but render your weapon very ineffective for anything more then maybe 30 or so meters.

 

High, specialised power should always equal a high cost.

Players are OP enough as it is. Lets not make literally everything optimized with no downside. 

Its a terrible idea. Might as well ask DE for console commands.

Edited September 25, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Well I can't speak for 'signs' but the reasoning was clearly to have blessing affected by power strength so during the gate crash event it didn't become the single last usable ability while all other abilities were hit with maximum -duration -strength -range.

That is meaningless.  You can just exploit your way through the event and never have to worry about those debuffs.  Rebalancing a Frame for the sake of an easily exploitable event, which is not likely to return, lacks anything even approaching sense so I can only hope you are mistaken.

[RedEyedRaven]

Rebalancing a Frame for the sake of an easily exploitable event

 

What Frame was rebalanced for the event?

The changes on Trinity are several months old, actually. Somewhat around April/May.

 

Edited September 25, 2014 by RedEyedRaven

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

What Frame was rebalanced for the event?

Don't ask me.  I was just responding to his assertion.

[RedEyedRaven]

Well I can't speak for 'signs'

 

It was known well before it happened, that Trinity's blessing is gonna be changed. Boom, it happened. Months ago.

Currently there is nothing that indicates further changes on Trinity, ability-wise.

Edited September 25, 2014 by RedEyedRaven

[kirean3464]

ok im at work so i cant cover all this indepth as i would like to , that comment about one gun that does everything is a stupid comparison considering her skill set still bottoms out late wave, and again having two builds that gimp each other in a severe way does not breed variety it breeds awkwardness yes you can adapt and learn to use your crappy build if you have to but that does not make it fun, you cant get a inbetween viable build on warframe unless you specifically cater your mods for it, there either leveled or there not leveled its not like there is room to maneuver there, and as far as im aware i have to test it myself, but trinity still does have the downside of not been needed untill high wave and useful for a very short time when you finally do get that hour and a half into survival, and still the damage should bottom out in high wave when i see it she does not call for another nerf surely i mean what do you envision for her whats a totally balanced trinity i mean i have  a tread up on this come reply to it

[TrinityPrime]

It was known well before it happened, that Trinity's blessing is gonna be changed. Boom, it happened. Months ago.

Currently there is nothing that indicates further changes on Trinity, ability-wise.

 

Trinity Blessing was changed just before the Gate Crash event.  It's now affected by power strength and only healing up to 80% health/shields at max rank without mods affecting power strength.

 

Edit:

 

Also was made recastable. It was a fairly recent change.

Edited September 25, 2014 by KnotOfMetal

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

having two builds that gimp each other in a severe way does not breed variety

 

Actually, it does.  It is the very definition of variety

 

variety : -noun- the quality or state of having or including many different things

 

Is English not your first language, my friend?

[kirean3464]

Actually, it does.  It is the very definition of variety

 

variety : -noun- the quality or state of having or including many different things

 

Is English not your first language, my friend?

two builds is not variety its two standard builds where you either pick one or the other variety imply's multiple choices i do not consider one option or the next a variety of choice's so you can take your little dictionary and stick it firmly right where you speak from most.

addressing the words someone uses does not make your point any more valid.

would you tell someone there is a variety of weapons on the market in warframe if only the braton and lex were available? no of course not because your friend would tell you that you are a moron.

 

and it still doesn't change the fact that trinity does not need to be nerfed any more she was only barely usable anyway in high wave and she is pointless before that, but i have yet to see the new blessing changes if they are the way ive been told then its job done she is back to being able to do her job well im glad hopefully she stays like that

Edited September 25, 2014 by Einde
Cleaned.

[Ailissa]

I don't expect to see her get any changes any time soon.

 

She recently had a tweak and isn't likely to be getting another this soon after.

[kirean3464]

I don't expect to see her get any changes any time soon.

 

She recently had a tweak and isn't likely to be getting another this soon after.

i really hope not, she is one of my favorite frames im tired of her getting hit with nerf bats and messed with id like her to be left alone so i can optimise her and not have the fit destroyed later on

[StinkyPygmy]

 

 

two builds is not variety its two standard builds where you either pick one or the other variety imply's multiple choices i do not consider one option or the next a variety of choice's so you can take your little dictionary and stick it firmly right where you speak from most.

addressing the words someone uses does not make your point any more valid.

would you tell someone there is a variety of weapons on the market in warframe if only the braton and lex were available? no of course not because your friend would tell you that you are a moron.

 

and it still doesn't change the fact that trinity does not need to be nerfed any more she was only barely usable anyway in high wave and she is pointless before that, but i have yet to see the new blessing changes if they are the way ive been told then its job done she is back to being able to do her job well im glad hopefully she stays like that

I believe Desecrated was pointing out you seem to think that before you only had two options to build her, both being opposite extremes. Hence his focus on the words variety etc. He is quite right though, there were plenty of builds for her that worked just fine and its never been limited to either the spam build or the nuke build. So there have always been a variety of effective ways to build her. Don't think DE has ever "broken" a build that wasn't more of an exploit then anything. With all the balancing changes to frames and powers I've seen rarely have I ever been forced change a build let alone be concerned that my forma config has been ruined etc. Then again I don't always run with the "cookie cutter" builds so many players have a hard on for. When I do I manage to switch between the current flavor of the month build and my other builds just fine regardless of how much forma I've invested.

The forums need to chill when it comes to having their precious frame builds ruined. Because thats rarely ever the case.

 

Trin not being needed till late game is not a trin problem but a scaling/difficulty problem.

I disagree that she falls off quickly though. I've had no problem using her for stupidly long survivals. Personally the removal of the blessing cooldown was a mistake. But eh what ya gonna do. WF is a balance and mechanic nightmare.

 

Regardless I doubt they will fiddle with her much more. She probably isn't getting a rework.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Einde
Slight cleanup.

[kirean3464]

Aggression aside, I believe Desecrated was pointing out you seem to think that before you only had two options to build her, both being opposite extremes. Hence his focus on the words variety etc. He is quite right though, there were plenty of builds for her that worked just fine and its never been limited to either the spam build or the nuke build. So there have always been a variety of effective ways to build her.

 

Trin not being needed till late game is not a trin problem but a scaling/difficulty problem.

I disagree that she falls off quickly though. I've had no problem using her for stupidly long survivals. Personally the removal of the blessing cooldown was a mistake. But eh what ya gonna do. WF is a balance and mechanic nightmare.

 

Regardless I doubt they will fiddle with her much more. She probably isn't getting a rework.

no there really was not again its based on mods there either leveled or there not, and if your gearing your frame to fill a particular role then yes there were only two builds to do that, sure you can fit your trinity for tank you can fit it with nothing but speed mods if you really want to, does not change the fact that there were two builds that you chose to fill a particular niche, you can fit anything you like on your frames, you can make trinity tanky as hell if you take away from something else but she is a support frame your supposed to be supporting that's the bottom line.

[StinkyPygmy]

no there really was not again its based on mods there either leveled or there not, and if your gearing your frame to fill a particular role then yes there were only two builds to do that, sure you can fit your trinity for tank you can fit it with nothing but speed mods if you really want to, does not change the fact that there were two builds that you chose to fill a particular niche, you can fit anything you like on your frames, you can make trinity tanky as hell if you take away from something else but she is a support frame your supposed to be supporting that's the bottom line.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. 

There were a variety of builds and still are for her. About as many as there are for every other frame.

I've always run a balance between being able to soak up dmg with link for personal protection and focused on blessing dmg reduction. I tried to strike a balance between the two and fit the role just fine. Always has been and still are multiple builds for trin. You don't have to go to either extreme to fill one role.

 

Personally I found the fact blessing was (and is now) basically spammable to be poor design.

You can have endless energy and endless, global heals + 90% dmg reduction. Trins still OP as she ever was.

But thats not a trinity problem, its more of a WF's difficulty curve and reliance on enemies scaling issue.

Edited September 25, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

no there really was not again its based on mods there either leveled or there not, and if your gearing your frame to fill a particular role then yes there were only two builds to do that, sure you can fit your trinity for tank you can fit it with nothing but speed mods if you really want to, does not change the fact that there were two builds that you chose to fill a particular niche, you can fit anything you like on your frames, you can make trinity tanky as hell if you take away from something else but she is a support frame your supposed to be supporting that's the bottom line.

There were two extremes and every combination in between max duration and min duration.

[kirean3464]

what combination? if you have maxed out mods there maxed out, sure you could go and get a second mod and level that up to suit a in-between build that does a bit of everything but that does not  deserve merit who the hell wants to do that? for a long wave set up there were two main sustainable options that is not variety in any sense of the word that's two but hopefully it remains a moot point if blessing is recast able and she can do her job again she will be the first frame i test the moment i am back online

[StinkyPygmy]

what combination? if you have maxed out mods there maxed out, sure you could go and get a second mod and level that up to suit a in-between build that does a bit of everything but that does not  deserve merit who the hell wants to do that? for a long wave set up there were two main sustainable options that is not variety in any sense of the word that's two but hopefully it remains a moot point if blessing is recast able and she can do her job again she will be the first frame i test the moment i am back online

Theres the problem right there. I've found builds that don't hyper specialise in one area but rather split it between two abilities or so can be more useful in some cases then the hypers specialized builds you seem to love. Lots of players run with builds that are inbetween. I do it all the time. Works out fine for me. Normally means I can handle a varity of situations better at the cost of not spamming one ability over and over and getting bored.

I'm about fun, not min maxing. Oddly enough, thats a manged to get me by just fine. I'll take my little inbetween trin build any day over the current hyper OP build and still do just as well as everyone else with her. Even with maxxed out mods you can still run more then a extreme build.

Edited September 25, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[Ailissa]

i really hope not, she is one of my favorite frames im tired of her getting hit with nerf bats and messed with id like her to be left alone so i can optimise her and not have the fit destroyed later on

As long as a game has PvP, no matter how unimportant it is to the actual game (and the vast majority of players) then that game will always have whiners that need things to be nerfed.

 

As such it's why I haven't bothered putting any forma into a frame. Complete waste of time considering sooner or later something will be nerfed.

 

I used to like PVP, mainly in MMO's, until it hit the cycle of nerf/buff repeat. PvE based games tend to be okay. Less competitiveness, less need for nerf cycles. 

 

Healers tend to get it the worst. 

 

It's hilarious really. The whole point of being a healer is to keep yourself and your team alive. People rage because they think they should be able to kill said healers easily defeating the whole purpose of being a healer.

 

No game, no game ever, has managed to achieve that mythical "balance" that people seem to go on about. Min/max'ers will always be able to get maximum potential out of anything so as soon as one ability is brought down they will just find another .. so on and so forth.

 

I find it hard to get myself attached to, depending on the game, class or (in this case) frames because there will come a time that they will be beat into uselessness to appease the complainers. 

 

The only thing I take joy in is the class/frame that those very people play will also be hit with the nerf bat eventually.