Drop Tables, How Much Longer Will You Ignore Them Sheldon?

[Wurdyburd]

I dont think there is much DE CAN change without revamping the whole system. As VegetableBasket once reminded me, 2 thirds of ALL possible drops are either Warframe or Sentinel abilities. The very system (as it is in the Beta Test) relies on them, without them, basically there is no drop system for MODs to speak of.

In another thread I had a lengthy discussion about the core of the game, and what needs to be fixed and why. To summarize, so many systems in the game are bad, underused, or underdeveloped, that anything additional system that uses them [such as Archwings, which will need mods from a broken drop table to see their true potential, likely] will continue to drive the game in the wrong direction. The longer they go without fixing it, the more things they add, and the harder it'll be to make a significant change. That said, following the logic of the bottom line/shiny things posts that have been made here, DE doesn't WANT to fix them. As long as Warframe keeps bringing in new players, some players will have a ball with the early systems, spend money, and then DE will have won. It'll be much longer before those same players realize that this game is an empty grind with shallow lore, no story, and broken systems, but DE will already have their money by then, so why change it?

[Archistopheles]

Here's your choice, Sheldon, do another Hot Pepper gaming video, or fix the tables. Hehe

[NN13]

If we are talking about Mods only,I agree with Hybridon....

 

And,if we are talking about Prime parts as well......While farming for the latest prime gear,I had a nice little idea which I will be posting in the Forums in a day or two....

 

The main problem with Prime parts is that we have no idea when we are going to get a part....It maybe the 1st run or even the 70th(yeah,happened to me,commom thing in WF).

 

So,I thought,why not introduce new Quests for the next set of Prime gears. We can all agree that even though Mirage took longer time to farm,we enjoyed the missions. Most of us didn't mind the wait because we could see the end.

 

So,we can easily have a separate Quest for a set of Warframe,Primary,Secondary and Melee,which will be put behind a "timewall" instead of a "Grindwall" and "RNGwall".

[Hybridon]

If we are talking about Mods only,I agree with Hybridon....

 

And,if we are talking about Prime parts as well......While farming for the latest prime gear,I had a nice little idea which I will be posting in the Forums in a day or two....

 

The main problem with Prime parts is that we have no idea when we are going to get a part....It maybe the 1st run or even the 70th(yeah,happened to me,commom thing in WF).

 

So,I thought,why not introduce new Quests for the next set of Prime gears. We can all agree that even though Mirage took longer time to farm,we enjoyed the missions. Most of us didn't mind the wait because we could see the end.

 

So,we can easily have a separate Quest for a set of Warframe,Primary,Secondary and Melee,which will be put behind a "timewall" instead of a "Grindwall" and "RNGwall".

 

I still prefer the give X duplicate prime pieces to get 1 piece that you want. Kinda like a token system.

[NN13]

I still prefer the give X duplicate prime pieces to get 1 piece that you want. Kinda like a token system.

For getting the Prime Gears easily,yes,token system is very good.....But a game should not be just about getting different weapons and frames,which,unfortunately is exactly what Warframe is for a veteran player. It should be enjoyable. But unfortunately,while WF is a very good game,its also one of the most repeatative games I have seen so far...

 

Think of this.....Suppose you get Nyx Prime,Hikou Prime and Scindo Prime from a quest which needs about 15 days to complete(required time wall for a F2P game). And that quest just wont have Survival and Capture and Exterminate,but rather, a mixture of different missions which gives you clues to advance to the next mission(much like Mirage quest). Think how interesting it will be instead of playing 30 T1 Capture to get 2 Hikou Pouches...

Edited September 26, 2014 by NN13

[Letter13]

I'd like to take a moment to remind folks to remain constructive and avoid profanity/dev-bashing. There are plenty of constructive, mature and respectful ways to voice your discontent with the way things are without resorting to insults and inappropriate language.

[Hybridon]

For getting the Prime Gears easily,yes,token system is very good.....But a game should not be just about getting different weapons and frames,which,unfortunately is exactly what Warframe is for a veteran player. It should be enjoyable. But unfortunately,while WF is a very good game,its also one of the most repeatative games I have seen so far...

 

Think of this.....Suppose you get Nyx Prime,Hikou Prime and Scindo Prime from a quest which needs about 15 days to complete(required time wall for a F2P game). And that quest just wont have Survival and Capture and Exterminate,but rather, a mixture of different missions which gives you clues to advance to the next mission(much like Mirage quest). Think how interesting it will be instead of playing 30 T1 Capture to get 2 Hikou Pouches...

 

We both know De wont be doing something like that. The token system is much more plausible considering DEs history.

 

I think it is interesting, but Im not going to go further in the void discussion, as its not what I mainly focus on this topic. The void tables Ive just completely given up, as it is there main income, thus why they probably do that every update.

[Shin]

This is the reason why im not playing warframe actively. If lets say i wanted to get a prime part, i would have to work for it nonstop for hours/days/weeks or maybe months. Not everyone here has the time to actively farm them. I know that we have to work for the thing we want but we're forgetting that this is a game. Farming for something is taking way too much time in this game. Prime examples are the Survival missions. You can go hours and hours yet if rng is not on your side, you wont get the thing you want.

 

Im sorry but that last Loki prime survival farm broke me. We're playing this game to have fun. Not watch our hours wasted on a couple of common mods etc. 

[NN13]

We both know De wont be doing something like that. The token system is much more plausible considering DEs history.

 

I think it is interesting, but Im not going to go further in the void discussion, as its not what I mainly focus on this topic. The void tables Ive just completely given up, as it is there main income, thus why they probably do that every update.

Well,yeah....But we can hope...DE have surprised me on more than one occassions....So,you know,doesn't hurt to suggest...

 

But anyway,won't derail your thread anymore....Carry on with Mod Drop Table =)

[Hybridon]

This is the reason why im not playing warframe actively. If lets say i wanted to get a prime part, i would have to work for it nonstop for hours/days/weeks or maybe months. Not everyone here has the time to actively farm them. I know that we have to work for the thing we want but we're forgetting that this is a game. Farming for something is taking way too much time in this game. Prime examples are the Survival missions. You can go hours and hours yet if rng is not on your side, you wont get the thing you want.

 

Im sorry but that last Loki prime survival farm broke me. We're playing this game to have fun. Not watch our hours wasted on a couple of common mods etc. 

 

Yep, I tried to enter the void farming, but Im really, really, really saturated atm.

[Hybridon]

Well,yeah....But we can hope...DE have surprised me on more than one occassions....So,you know,doesn't hurt to suggest...

 

But anyway,won't derail your thread anymore....Carry on with Mod Drop Table =)

 

No worries mate :)

 

Yeah, they have surprised us, but my main problem here is there total lack of care in answering and trying to fix this issue.

[notionphil]

Well, I think it's mostly the mass deflection and flippant attitude most questions get on livestreams. Who wants to ask a question or give feedback to get handwaved. Most people feel DE is just gonna do whatever and we can deal with it or find a new game.

 

No worries mate :)

 

Yeah, they have surprised us, but my main problem here is there total lack of care in answering and trying to fix this issue.

 

It's not lack of care, they want it to be the way it is. RNG is a content-extender. Right now thousands of players are running the same void missions they've run hundreds of times....simply because of RNG.

 

I'm not saying it's a good or well-thought out extender, but that's what it is. Hopefully Proxy wars will do a better job of extending content via challenges and difficulty levels etc.

[Hybridon]

It's not lack of care, they want it to be the way it is. RNG is a content-extender. Right now thousands of players are running the same void missions they've run hundreds of times....simply because of RNG.

 

I'm not saying it's a good or well-thought out extender, but that's what it is. Hopefully Proxy wars will do a better job of extending content via challenges and difficulty levels etc.

 

Sorry, but the way it was treated in the livestream, at least to me, was a big let down. It was completely derailed, unanswered and a horrible example, that has nothing to do with past content, was used as if everything is butterflies and candy.

 

Sorry, but if you read my thread, Im talking about mods, not void drop tables.

[MetatronShinji]

+1

 

Also the @(*()$ Oberon drop rates and Eximus spawn rates. ;_;

[Wurdyburd]

On the subject of turning void drops into a token system, such a system has been suggested from the community for over a year now.

However, maybe in light of the "bottom line" business model, we can change something. We've all been suggesting changes to content in an attempt to make the game run smoother, give rewarding play, and not be such a lobotomizing grind. But maybe instead we should be suggesting changes that both reward the community and benefit DE's monetary gains as well.

 

So DE, hear this one out:

Add to the void drop system a token system, like we've suggested. If you recycle 5 prime parts, you're awarded with one token. Tokens can then be used to buy prime parts from a void marketplace [perhaps make it owned by a new character, and give them lore, please?]. More common parts can be bought for 1 token, rarer for 2, and the absolute rarest, which consist of parts released from whichever new Prime Access is running at the time, can be bought for anywhere from 3-5 tokens. This gives players a sense of finality; instead of farming the same key 20+ times to get a new Prime Access weapon part, we can have a cutoff point, recycling 20 prime parts into 4 tokens to buy the thing we seek.

Even then, we'd still have to run something like 60 missions of not getting any of the parts we're looking for to have enough tokens to buy the parts to make the weapon we want to get.

Tokens will be untradeable.

And DE, you can SELL these tokens from your marketplace for platinum! Players unwilling to take part in the grind can buy a handful of tokens, and craft the prime weapon they want, without hassle. What's more, players who have so nearly gotten the number of tokens they need, but are unwilling or unable to farm those additional 5, 10, etc runs for spare prime parts, may be inclined to buy the one or two tokens they need to finish their weapon.

Everybody wins. Players feel rewarded and justified for their grinding. You pick up platinum from players.

 

Thoughts?

Edited September 26, 2014 by Wurdyburd

[Yorinar]

Completely agree.  Spending potentially hundreds of hours to get something pushes something far past "fun" into "i will never play this game again."  Like wyrm prime cerebrum.  First you have to RNG for the key, which almost at a minimum is a 5-minute grind just for the chance to get it and then it's maybe less than 5%.  Then the cerebrum itself has a less than 2% chance of dropping.  That means if you're grinding from scratch, the expectation of getting wyrm prime is 83 hours - and I'm probably being generous.

[Mr.Kazimir]

Cannot agree enough on all of your points, especially about stances and the removal of ability mods. Drop tables have been an issue for a very long time and quite frankly it's unacceptable that they have been ignored this long. Upvoting and following this thread. It would be interesting to see a Dev reply to this.

[Hybridon]

Cannot agree enough on all of your points, especially about stances and the removal of ability mods. Drop tables have been an issue for a very long time and quite frankly it's unacceptable that they have been ignored this long. Upvoting and following this thread. It would be interesting to see a Dev reply to this.

 

I doubt it, tbh. Im thinkin about sending it directly to Sheldon, but think he might get offended thinking Im directly bashing him.

[Tyrarl]

I know you're talking about drop tables, but it's not as if other sources of rewards are much better. Been farming T1 Captures and used all the keys I had. Granted, it was only 9, but this is what I got:

 

1) Forma Blueprint

2) Tower I Defense

3) Tower I Defense

4) Tower II Capture

5) Tower II Capture

6) Tower II Capture

7) Tower II Capture

8) Boar Prime Receiver

9) Tower II Capture

 

I realize that 9 runs isn't statistically significant (and I'd run more, given the chance) but out of, what, 10 types of Void keys possible, Formas, and 3 prime parts (14 items), even if they had an equal drop rate (which they don't, obviously), 5 t2 capture keys is just annoying and unfair. I'm not going to pay for prime access to get the parts I want, but I also feel like this grind is going to drive people away over time if there aren't more rewarding things to do in the game.

[Hybridon]

I know you're talking about drop tables, but it's not as if other sources of rewards are much better. Been farming T1 Captures and used all the keys I had. Granted, it was only 9, but this is what I got:

 

1) Forma Blueprint

2) Tower I Defense

3) Tower I Defense

4) Tower II Capture

5) Tower II Capture

6) Tower II Capture

7) Tower II Capture

8) Boar Prime Receiver

9) Tower II Capture

 

I realize that 9 runs isn't statistically significant (and I'd run more, given the chance) but out of, what, 10 types of Void keys possible, Formas, and 3 prime parts (14 items), even if they had an equal drop rate (which they don't, obviously), 5 t2 capture keys is just annoying and unfair. I'm not going to pay for prime access to get the parts I want, but I also feel like this grind is going to drive people away over time if there aren't more rewarding things to do in the game.

 

Its not my focus because that is a totally different problem, even though it is a drop table issue.

 

And thats a dead horse, since DE encrypted drop tables, we cant really put our fingers on the issue to a certain extent.

 

Along with that, people complain everyday on that issue, me included, and they also continue to ignore it.

[Siekier]

I would upvote the OP a few times if I had the option to do so.

 

What you're talking about is a real problem. I'm often getting a bit annoyed when some questions, especially really important ones, are ignored, like they don't even care.

Droptables need to be reworked, simple as that. Right now it's getting worse and worse with every update.

 

So if the devs would listen to us (especially that we're asking for it for months already) instead of ignoring the issue... Yeah, that'd be nice.

[Just4Games]

Great topic, mate! +1!

 

Hope DE will stop ignoring this issue and fix it.

[(PSN)Hollow118]

This topic right here needs a spotlight, it needs to be tossed in front of the developers. I would appreciate a response from one of them to show they actually are considering addressing this issue. I agree with you 100% OP. Things gotta change

[zoboso]

1.) Agree in spirit; Sheldon should look at all of the mod drop tables periodically, and in addition Sheldon should have access to the true percent likelihood of getting a certain mod given the data he has access to. 

 

2.) Transmutation is designed to solve a different problem (inflation); however, it is an alternative mod access as you reverenced in section 1b.

 

3.) Agree, giving us a way to manipulate what enemy spawns would be fun. Though manipulating infested so that we could stand on top of boxes again might not be a good idea.

 

4.) No opinion

 

5.) ability mods cannot go into the market without preventing using those mods in fusion allowing people to just use credit to fuse would be a mistake. I thing that being able to use higher ranked mods as lower ranked ones would make using mods easier at the cost of further inflating the mod market, I personally like the idea but it would require a overhaul of the mod system.

 

6.) agree maybe higher levels should decrease the likelihood of seeing common enemies to make rarer enemies more common by comparison.

[Azawarau]

1-3% drop on rares is actually really high considering this in an MMO