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[DE]Drew

September 26Th: Community Hot Topics!

September 26th Community Hot Topics  

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Gameplay-wise, I'm personally tied between choosing Cryotic Front and Breeding Grounds. They're both equally memorable and (mostly) well-implemented events that injected increasingly dynamic gameplay that was frankly missing in modes beforehand. Breeding Grounds put forward a sense of urgency and a real test for the team against increasingly overwhelming odds- both from the amassing Infested and the increasingly dangerous environment as each Hive was taken down. Claustraphobic and sometimes spooky rooms felt like appropriate factors to this success. Randomized Hive-spawned hazards also emphasized the need for alertness throughout the levels.  Meanwhile, Cryotic Front felt like a viable Survival alternate which still had its mass-mob action without the critical pickup droughts that sometimes plagued shipside Survival. The players were not artificially forced to continuously pick up critical drops all the time, thus freeing up some playstyle opportunities. Despite the hiccups of overtly ultra-massive generated maps (at first), the new Europa tileset felt at home with the Extraction mode. The all-new tiles allowed considerably more mobility for the players and felt like they offered a good balance of vertical and flat-plane action. Both events *could* start to feel a bit repetitive, but that's highly dependent on a per-individual case. I feel that in terms of overall fun and variety in the events, Breeding Grounds and Cryotic Front were DE's most successful examples so far.

As for the lore side, I would have picked The Gravidus Dilemma and the Hunt for Alad V instead. Both events' lores felt more purposeful than those of Breeding Grounds and Cryotic Front. While Breeding Grounds definitely helped advance the saga of Alad V's downfall, its lore just didn't give the same sense of urgency as The Hunt for Alad V (Perhaps because in-lore, The Hunt involved Tenno rescuing an imprisoned Tenno). The case was similar for The Gravidus Dilemma, feeling on equal terms with The Hunt for Alad V. It forced the player Tenno to choose between rescuing their cryo-sleeping brethren and stopping the expansion of Grineer power. Gameplay-wise, Gravidus isn't so solid as Cryotic Front or Breeding Grounds (as it was a complete grindfest), but it allowed the players to steer the course of the Warframe lore.

So, to sum it up, I pick Cryotic Front+Breeding Grounds for considerably more engaging and fun new modes, and Gravidus Dilemma+Hunt for Alad V for substantial and impactful lore.

As for Event Rewards, I honestly do not feel qualified enough to discuss reward weapon/mod statistics and performance. On the art side, I recommend that DE continue pumping out thematically matching reward designs. Complementary cosmetic attachments would also serve well.

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Would be nice if every enemy in a faction drop all drops available within the faction at a lower rate than the ones that specifically drop them with the drop rate going up with the rarity of the enemy and the smaller drop pool as common enemies that are not "uncommon" only drop common mods or rarer as oppose to uncommon enemies dropping everything.

 

Rare enemies drop only rare stuff and certain rare enemies dropping only that one mod and nothing more.

 

This way, you don't always have to hunt down certain enemies to get stuff and it won't take light years to get a bloody stance.

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I wish could pick multiple options for the events, because I like both gatecrash and cryotic front.

Cryotic front for the new tileset/gamemode and gatecrash for the gamemode, a tileset that changes halfway through, cool bosses; the increasing difficulty from the exposure points could be done without, but would make an excellent "nightmare" mode variant.

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Another type of cosmetic item I would like to see are "Material Pickers." Some Warframes have certain sections that are oddly colored due to their material, so maybe a limited selection of materials could spice things up as well? For example, a "Metal Material" could be applied to a specific section to make it glossy, or a "Cloth Material" could be applied to give it a slight texture and a matte effect.

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The problem of mod tables and void tables is the same IMO. Double RNG wall.

 

For some mods, dropped by rare enemies you need luck with the correct enemy spwn and luck with drop. Rare enemy+rare mod= Nightmare. Do the math DE, how many crewman sniper spawn per game? 2-3? What is the drop rate of a rare mod?0.5%(1 every 200 kills)? And how many rare mods have this troop in his table? 4.

To solve this problem every enemy should have, at least, 1 map with a high spawn rate. Give us a 20 min survival/20 wave deff with 60-70 snipers ad will be a more fair farm.

 

About void, same problem, you need luck farming the correct key, and then you need luck with void drop table. I read more than 30 suggestion that helps with tables or keys since the Void was released, more than a year of suggestion and feedback, and you did nothing, or changed it and made it worse than before. It´s a useless discussion, DE don´t want to change it, yeah people will feel better with this hot topic, thinking "DE is concerned about this problem", but after all that time if you don´t change it is because you don´t want. And after all, we will have the same hot topic in 3 months, when you release the next prime access.

 

 

Edit:

And now about mastery rank.

 

Reward for mastery is a complicated discusion. I´m MR16, so i´ll be happy with amazing rewards but i understand the problem with it. Firsts of all, you don´t want to force people play weps/frames that dislike, and this is a good reason to keep mastery like now. On the other side, you works hard to release your new toys and you want to give incentive to people to try it, and this is a reason to put a good rewards.

Second problem, not all have access to all weapons&frames, exclusives/retired things can be an issue when some player have to wait much longer than others to reach a X rank if X rank give a good reward.

The first thing you should think before mastery rewards, is give players a way to get missed mastery from retired/exclusive weapons. You should have something in the works or in mind at least if your Focus system will be based on mastery rank all player base should have a chance to get the same mastery points. 

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The drop tables need some major work. At the moment there is a very large number of vocal people and constant threads about drop table dilution, drop rates etc. Over and over, players have suggested various fixes or complete augmentations. RNG will keep your player base going (there are people that enjoy mindless grinding) and will probably even continue to net you frustrated customers who simply buy prime access or plat just to "be done with it" as well as dedicated players who want to see the game succeed.

 

Let me specify the type of players who are burning out so there are no ambiguities. They are not the newbies who went "OoOo shiny loki prime, me wants", proceeds to get 3 or 4 T4 keys, gets nothing and complains. There are people who are running towers ~100 times and haven't gotten what they wanted because of the way the drop tables are right now.

 

I won't end with the pitchfork and doomsday themes that many threads and posts have more than sufficiently demonstrated.

 

The question is simple, do you (DE) want this to be the way that players support you? Where they wouldn't have spent any money on your efforts but do so simply out of sheer frustration with the game? Or would you rather have loyal, die-hard fans who play your game and will continue to play for the next few years because of the depth in the mechanics, story etc. and spend plat to buy prime access and accessories and all the beautiful work you put together because they appreciate the game?   

 

TLDR; the community has put the ball in your court DE. The player base and its enthusiasm for your game is what will sustain you in the long haul. 

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About Nekros Shadow of the dead, it is in my opinion, the worst and most terrible ability in all the game.

This ability works against the player and the squad.

- shadow of the dead and nyx's chaos, are the only 2 abilities that provoke damage and kill enemies, but don't reward xp back to the players.

- during casting animation the player can die or be hit, cause he cant move, and it takes too much time.

- casting the ability during chaotic moments can make the battlefield even more chaotic with all the shadows presence.

- the shadows can block the passage of the players, stooping them from escaping or hiding if they are in trouble.

- the shadows can block the the players view and bullets, creating stressful moments.

- the shadows can block the view and bullets from players, making them unaware the pod or console is being attacked.

In sum, this ability creates too much chaos and mess for the player and his squad, I have witnessed many moments when this ability has provoked an entire team to die or loose cause of the mess it does.

 

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Prime gear parts

I wouldn't say my concern is about the prime gear parts itself, but the lack of rewarding for completing different levels of difficulty.

If frame X prime helmet drops in T1 exterminate, and frame Y prime helmet drops in T4 exterminate, this would mean the frame Y helmet is more valuable and better, cause it required more difficulty to obtain. But this isn't true, both helmets of frame X and Y have the same reward quality, even though they are in different tiers of difficulty.

For the system to be fair and rewarding, T1 should give 1 prize, T2 should give 2 prizes, T3 should give 3 prizes, and T4 should give 4 prizes.

This doesn't mean all prizes should be prime parts, the 1st reward should always be a prime part, but the 2nd, 3rd and 4th reward could be cores, credits bundles, void keys, etc.

This would justify doing an harder mission, and reward the player accordingly with all the extra difficulty he has gone true.

 

-----------

Suggestion for ability mods being removed from drop tables.

Any completed mission in the star chart, should give a random ability mod at the end/extraction.

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Maybe Mastery rank can affect how fast weapons and warframes finish building in the foundry, some planets, like Pluto for example, should also be mastery locked.

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I honestly don't know what could could change/be added as your mastery rank increases, but there needs to be more than loadouts and being able to use some new weapons.

 

And about log in rewards; I constantly get Banshee bps, Vauban bps, and sentinel weapon exp. It also says on the wiki that 0-2 day log ins have a chance to give you 30 platinum. Is this true? If so then that should scale as you log in more frequently. It really ticks me off when I go through the trouble of logging in everyday just to end up with crappy weapon exp for a maxed out weapon.

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Mod drop tables, they are far, FAR more important than prime gear tables.  Prime gear, just like all gear, won't be effective without mods, so it is pretty clear what is more important. 

 

You're wrong on this.  A prime weapon can be used without an ideal mod loadout.  All of the "essentials" are readily available, either as drops or CHEAP from trading. Use forma if necessary, to add more stuff to make up for the loss of whatever it is that is so rare that you haven't got one.

 

Consider: which would you rather have? An uber-rare stance mod, or the prime weapon it goes into?

 

Prime weapon without a rare mod: Slight loss of performance from using common mods instead.

 

Rare mods without the weapon to put them in:  Completely useless.

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The Cicero Crisis caused me and everyone else I knew playing warframe at the time to quit the game either entirely or for 6+ months

ninjas taking RNG pictures so we could get trolled by pubs until you managed to patch in a way for solo players to even have a shot at winning the prizes was horrible

spam the same mission over and over again looking through a damn camera for tiny @$$ flowers that may or may not even be there

whats that? night and day?  gotta wait 6 hours for that special RNG flower? F*** you

 

 

please don't ever do something like that ever again, it SUCKED

 

Cryotic Front was the best thing you have ever added to warframe

a mission where I could pick and choose what area I wanted to defend at my own damn pace on one of three planets

oh hey the drill blew up, no problem drop another one

this was a very relaxed and fun event

 

please do more of this

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...  All of the "essentials" are readily available, either as drops or CHEAP from trading.

You could say the same about mods. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen someone attempt to sell Serration to a new player. But I do know this. Something so basic (the mod you need to do more damage with your gun) should not be so hard to get.

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One thing to keep in mind regarding Prime drop rates is keys. Acquiring specific void keys can be a long and arduous process, not to mention the nonsensical manner in which T4 keys are much easier to acquire than T3 ones, for instance.

 

While it would be no outright 'solution' to skewed drop tables, giving players an easier way to roll the dice again could help alleviate frustrations.

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** There's no option to "no-vote" on Nekros abilities and the poll won't accept votes without a selection in each field **

 

I've only played through the last three events but Gate-Crash was my favourite. Excavation is a great game mode and I look forward to seeing it introduced back in the game but as an event I'd completed all reward tiers by my third run. Gate-crash was repetitive but the increased challenge was enjoyable and the loot caches were well worth playing again for.

 

As for prime parts I'm fine with not getting a certain part in 25 runs, I do have a problem with having so many spare parts and nothing to do with them, maybe you could 'transmute' X amount of unwanted prime drops for a random void key.

 

Sentinel mod drops in the void occur far too often, it'd be nice to come away with a few common fusion cores rather than 20 Vacuums, 15 Thumpers, etc. Oh and corrupted heavy gunners dropping intruder is a troll right?

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I think that Mastery Rank should be more assorted so better weaponry is accesible the higher the mastery is...

 

That way new people will use other options apart to jumping straight to Rhino Prime Boltor Prime stuff... first it was funny... then became annoying...

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Ways to improve login rewards;
Login reward should be able to sense what Mastery Rank you are, not just if your weapons are max level. If I'm sitting here MR16/17, then there's no reason why I would want any kind of xp reward in the slightest, unless I've forma'd something, and at that point it's literally just to keep the game going. I don't WANT extra xp because it just shortens the tiny window of extra game time I've opened for myself.
That said, I'm not entirely sure what you could reward high mastery players with that they don't already have. Perhaps platinum, since they're already loyal players? Perhaps there should be some "Warframe Vault" weapon blueprints, such as the snipetron, that have since been put away. That would be a genuine reward, since it would allow players who never had access to such weapons to rank even further, and give them some measure of elitism.
 
As for what should mastery influence;
Everything. Ideally as much as possible. It's the only real way to distinguish a high-level player from a low one. Granted, a MR14 player could die more often and be a worse shot than a MR4, but it's safe to assume they have better mods, better equipment, and better frames.
First, the mastery system should be pounded out to have better access tiers to frames. The only frame that's mastery locked is Rhino; even Rhino Prime can be bought and used at MR0, which is absurd.
Weapons should be more properly tiered with mastery as well; the Embolist isn't quite deserving to be put on the same unlock level as the Dragon Nikana, and the Ignis is slightly more powerful than should be allowed at MR4.
I for one am a huge supporter of mastery levels giving rewards. Bragging rights isn't really worth anything in this game.
 
Also the mention of a Void Trader, using a token system to make use of unwanted void parts, is extremely coincidental to my post made earlier today; I can only hope that mine is the one that is being thought of.
If interested, it can be read here:
https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/316017-drop-tables-how-much-longer-will-you-ignore-them-sheldon/page-2#entry3574196
I plan on making a forum thread about it soon, and giving extra details. Please look forward to it!

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Hmm.  Well, since I've already been thinking about events recently, I might as well start there.  In fact, let's get really ahead of ourselves and bring up what I like least.  Frankly, I don't have a good answer to that question - certainly none of the categories listed count!  I seriously enjoyed Gate Crash just for the character it had.  The derelicts have always been fun, the mission itself encouraged exploration (for me, at least, I know other people have griped about that), the bosses had personality, and since I'm not a leaderboards guy it was nice and enjoyable all the way through.  Moving backwards, even Gradivus, the epitome of grind, was a total blast because of the competitive element and the question the whole thing posed.

 

Maybe it'd be better to focus on what I like in my events.  Cryotic was hands-down my absolute favorite - RNG was totally removed from the equation (well, spawn rates, but who cares), but more importantly it featured a mission type that was more fun for me than any I've found before.  I think that the reason it never got grindy is the same reason people run such obscenely long Survivals - there's enough stuff to do in each mission that it never gets old!  I love Interception for the same reason.  In contrast, Gradivus and even Gate Crash just felt more regular than usual, like there really wasn't any difference.  I don't really know how to explain it, honestly, just that the mission itself can provide the variety in something as big and sprawling and open-ended as Excavation, while linear and confined missions get dull in a big hurry.

 

One last note on the subject - events like Oxium Espionage and the old Fusion Moa and Grineer Spy Drone hunts were also fun because there was no forced mission type (and as I recall the rewards were tied to community progress and there was a chance of failure, which was fascinating), but on the other hand RNG in the spawn tables *here* can get frustrating in a massive hurry.

 

All right, setting events aside, there's the matter of Nekros.  People like Archwizard and DiabolusUrsus have said more on this topic more eloquently than I ever could, so I'll just sign on with the idea of making Desecrate guaranteed to take effect.  And the idea of turning Terrify into an aura instead of a pulse.  As for more minions, I'm not so sure on that - it's an interesting idea, but it gets confusing quickly.  Perhaps instead a life/energy leech of some sort, something like an Energy Channel effect where the basic ability charges the ultimate or something.  Talking off the top of my head here, no idea how that would work specifically.

 

Login rewards frankly need to be magnified substantially to be that interesting.  There was a thread some time back that is unfortunately no longer in my browser history that featured the sum total of a full year at three stars.  It was somewhere a bit less than a single warframe leveled from 27-30, a weapon from 20-30, and a couple hundred thousand credits, if I remember correctly.  I might be a little uncharitable there, and the credits are probably decent as they are, but the experience is simply bad.  Tack on an extra zero or something and it might be worthwhile.

 

As for blueprints and dilution, I'd like to suggest having a slot or three in each "wheel" devoted to a random blueprint, but the blueprint is decided randomly once "blueprint" is scored.  It's a separate table rather than part of the core list.  I *think* that'll reduce the apparent dilution a bit, though it may not be ideal for the login rewards.  Perhaps it could be applied to other drop tables, or to other items besides blueprints - a "fusion core" category that rolls for different fusion core types when selected, rather than every possible category of core lumped in with all of the other items on that list.

 

And then there's mastery rank.  Honestly, I feel like I need to wait and see what Focus does before I can weigh in on this, because it could either see a good strong crunch right now in order to help with balancing and tiering or else it needs to stay nice and broad for the sake of future weapons.  I like the idea of rewards for the test - perhaps something simple like a mod pack with one high-importance mod guaranteed at early ranks, maybe a credit bonus that can help people start off with their Kubrows, and periodic weapon, quest, and maybe focus-related unlocks.  Slots would be nice every so often too, though they can be spaced out.

 

Two things that I feel must be kept in mind with any discussion of Focus, though: Prime 'frames are the only ones whose use I feel comfortable with potentially mastery-locking, and unlock rank needs to be tied very closely to intended weapon tier.  Many weapons are fairly weak and same-ish and so probably deserve to be unranked, which is a different sort of problem, but a close look at weapons described as both overpowered and underpowered is needed.  For the first point, Warframes are so central to deciding playstyle for a given session, and so hard to get in the first place sometimes, that they are and should always be free once they've been assembled.  Even M-locking Primes is a risk there.  And for the second, well, again it's been said before by people more eloquent than I am.  Look at just about anything by DiabolusUrsus or the legendary Notionphil.

 

That's it for this Hot Topics session, I suppose.  Man, I really need to get better at reminding myself that this thing exists!

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Nekros needs a complete and total rework on Soul Punch, Terrify, and SOTD.

 

*ahem*

FlameRepellentModOld.png

 

Desecrate needs to be completely removed from the game in its current form. It does not fit at all with the 'necromancer' theme and gives the players an unwarranted sense of control over the mod drop system in this game. That kind of power should have never been given in the first place. The only reason most players use Nekros or demand for a Nekros to be in their party is so that he can spam 3, and for literally no other reason. I don't enjoy it and I know many other players expecting to play a Necromancer hate that as well. Just refer to the numerous Nekros rework threads where the exact same statements I just made have been said over and over and over and- I'll shut up now, as you likely get the point.

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 Operation Cryotic Front

was clearly the best event

it was the best because it was fun to play

not simply fun to have the reward

but the actual gameplay was fun in and of itself

 

i would like to see new skins similar to the "total conversion" skin you made for excalibur that made him look old fashioned

it wasnt just a change in his color pattern it significantly altered his geometry

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With regard to the mastery tests, I think that all of them should have rewards, and some should have even better rewards.

 

First off, Rank badges. We already have symbols for these ranks, put them to use! (and make them usable in the non-event badge spot, people without clan emblems would like something to put there).

 

Some ranks can have more meaningful (non-cosmetic, or better cosmetic, I won't complain if mastery rank gave me a syandana or armor!) rewards.

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Mastery Rank

 

Make MR work for unlocking weapons again.  As it stands we have some old weapons with old MR locks that made sense way back when but are horribly unfitting now, and most new weapons aren't given any lock at all.  Weapons should be grouped into certain "tiers" of power/viability that come with appropriate MR requirements.  This would make MR feel useful and help new players set goals to work towards.

 

I also agree with rewards based on MR, even if it's just something like credit payouts and fusion cores.  I'm totally behind the previously mentioned Rank Bandge idea, too.  I would even say it's good to have BIG rewards at certain milestones, like every 5 ranks you get some cosmetic or special mod.

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Covered Nekros already, but just to finish up...

 

Login Rewards

Oddly, in my experience there have been more platinum discount options scrolling by when I've missed a day on my login rewards and it reset. That should probably be reversed, no?

 

Events

I've always felt the best event would be the one that rewarded skill and persistence - the kind where a good player could complete it in a handful of runs (or dare I say, even just one) but would allow less-skilled players to add up points over time at a less efficient rate.

 

At this point, I'm fairly certain only Cryotic Front has made an honest attempt to do that - of its precursors, most events put more weight on the linear, grinding elements (with a more incidental skill element), while a handful rewarded skillful play but only counted your top score. Events like Cicero Crisis took the worst elements of this, forcing you to grind for hours or even days against RNG and setting you up to fail and waste resources every step of the way.

 

Mods vs Primes

Absolutely a loaded question. If you asked again in a month, the pendulum would swing towards mods because that'll be what's in demand - right now that's Nyx, in a few weeks it'll be Archwing stuff or the newest stance.

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