Why Is The Meta, Even The Meta...

[Semshol]

Y'know when it comes to 'in-game'. I'm pretty zen enough to let people play their own way. I'm fine with that.

 

But with the recent frenzy over Nyx Prime. I see a lot of people grabbing their meta and trying to force their way into end-game.

 

Or even worse, trying to break out of their crappy meta into even crappier frames that they don't understand because they lived their whole life in a Metal Box. (RHINOS!)

 

Everywhere I go, it's Boltor Prime and some frame that makes its user look like a total casual.

 

Seriously, why is the Boltor Prime the meta?

 

It's an absolutely GARBAGE weapon (not because of stats, but because of its overuse and the misunderstanding that equipping it alone makes you almighty). Now before the Rhinoobs start crying, just pick up a Burston Prime, add punch-through, status and damage/status dual-mods and just try it out, seriously, there are a bunch of other weapons I could recommend that'll do the same and all of a sudden your Boltor Prime will look like a nerf gun you bought in Walmart.

 

I don't know how many times I've walked into T4 and by wave 15, some Rhino tells me: "I'm out of ammo". They've basically focused on nothing but DPS and now have no means to actually deal it to the enemy. So I must then basically carry the newbie and fulfill my role. Sometimes I have to carry more than one. In fact:

 

 

But this problem is only worsened by the Boltor Prime lovers who cite DeePeeEsss, as the reason they use their favourite nerf gun.

 

DPS is a horrid measure of viability. It's nice when you're a noob and can't tell right from left, but I really expect better of  the MR10+ players.

 

DPS can basically be increased just by increasing fire-rate. It DOES NOT actually mean your gun is more viable, it just means you're wasting cringe-worthy amounts of ammunition to deal your "superior DPS" before leaving it to the rest of the team to carry you.

 

I mean, if ammo-inefficient guns are your thing, just try out an Amprex, it outDPS's the boltor prime AND procs incredible amounts of status that will just destroy everything in your path. That's how crazy it is.

 

So, now that I've gotten my rant out of the way, I'd like to ask from the Veterans who are always carrying their team 24/7 all day, erryday. What kind of load-outs do you like? I'll share mine below:

 

Semshol's Meta:

 

Frame: Loki Prime

Weapons: Amprex, Detron (can't be bothered farming Brakk yet), Dakra Prime (with Life Strike and Channeling Build).

Style: Invis + maxed range Radial Disarm, top DPS, top Kills, Unlimited HP, Enemies must fight with sticks. This is how you carry.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Semshol

[Dead_Rabbits]

This post reeks of elitism.

[tveeggad]

This is going to be interesting.

[izzatuw]

Nerf Boltor people will go for Soma. 

[Azawarau]

Eh

 

He seems anti elitism in a rebellious way

 

I like him

[VKhaun]

Because the game has never had any structure. People go get a few mods and a decent gun and, bam, Mercury and Venus can be crushed without any difficulty. This becomes their baseline because there's nothing else setting a standard. They spend the whole game operating under the self-imposed assumption that they should be in little danger and vaporize anything they look at funny.

 

Then they get to end game and they declare the ride has been a boring grind with no challenge, all damage skills are broken/UP because they don't one shot anything anymore, and all mods that aren't raw damage are "band aids" or "useless" because they have to stack pure damage and pure EHP to keep up that level of power, where they're super strong and super tough.

 

Then they go to endless and they expect to STILL be at that level of no challenge, no cover used, no team work, so invincible snowglobes, team invulnerability buffs and 60m PBAoE hard stuns + blind that goes through walls with no max targets are perfectly reasonable int heir minds. How else can they play for 60min straight vs the highest level enemies scaling upwards the whole time!?

 

I've been telling DE we need structure for a very long time and I'm really not seeing it being taken to heart. Tacticool alerts will be a high point of the game for me personally but they also represent a half-measure that will not affect the core issue. People will consider the tacticool alerts the outlier and the existing problems with pacing and lack of reference for intended strength will continue. Meanwhile Boltor Prime remains MR2 and Soma can, AFAIK, be used at MR0 if someone buys it for plat.

 

I've been telling DE we need conditional damage and defense, rather than free stats for a very long time. DE_Steve even said he liked the idea of damage mods based on gameplay like +% damage on unaware targets or +% damage on headshots, but that was several updates ago and nothing since. Meanwhile events are giving away more and higher free stats through new mods.

 

This is the greatest weakness of the game and it needs to get fixed ASAP, before anyone else's pet issue. It's what causes people to feel like they're grinding because the total lack of risk or conditional performance makes the game a snoozefest when you just bring OP gear. It's what makes end-game bad, because everyone who reaches the end game has no idea how to play against a challenge since they've spent all their playtime as a God in OP gear. It's what makes PUG's trash as no one has any need or desire to do anything but flash through on their Zorren copter to see the mission complete screen. 

 

 

 

/rant.

[Azawarau]

Nerf Boltor people will go for Attica. 

Fixed

[Sixty5]

Boltor prime gives the highest level of reliable dps in relation to the skill taken to use it.

The Latron Prime is by far the better weapon, yet it sees less usage because aiming is too hard.

The meta is defined by consensus of the majority, it is what people tend to gravitate towards.

I usually run Banshee because of all the strengths she has, with Cc, damage and utility

People say she is crap because they don't have the skills needed to exploit.her talents.

Moving on towards mirage now, simply because I like the cut of her gib, and the fact that I can be selfish when I play her. My danage output is greater than that of the rest of my team combined, so why bother ressing them. Plus I never get yelled at for not being a cc nachine or a power spammer.

[Doom_Bunny]

Nerf Boltor people will go for Soma. 

Nerf explosive weaponry, allows attica to use explosives. *sigh*

 

 

Because the game has never had any structure. People go get a few mods and a decent gun and, bam, Mercury and Venus can be crushed without any difficulty.

Lies. Back in closed beta even if you had a good gun and a decent leveled gun (lvl skill tree thing) you were still going to die, unless you played carefully like a ninja. If you rushed back then you were most likely to die. You had to kill enemies carefully, if you were spotted you would have to get the hell out of dodge and behind cover. God I miss those days.

[HackShield]

problem is Boltor isnt  a bad gun same as rhino isnt a bad frame i like both BUT the META isnt thw eapon its the play style

 

they press left bottum circle the mouse and if youre brainless and you know ti stomp ;)

 

if you got no skill and a douchbag frame and weapons choice = Rhino Marelock Dragon Nikana Boltor Prime.

 

but not everyone that plays it is the same but even as i know it you here a gasp of boringness and being annoyed if i hear a boltor and see a rhino . just a mental thing.

 

and personla i like my 

 

Boar Prime

Burston

Phage

 

Brakk 

Lex Prime

Despair

 

Jat Kittag

Dakra

Glaive

 

and Frames

 

Trinity

Ash

Disarm Loki

[-Ozymandias-]

Boltor prime...

Pfff...why do i always do the most damage in high level survival/defense with my Dread and not people's Boltor primes?

 

Boltor prime highly overrated, i'm not saying its a bad weapon, but ever since it was released i see everyone using it even in mercury, got bored of it without even crafting it, and when i did it was just XP fodder, doesnt even have a potato.

 

The meta dudes should explore some of the game content, there are perfectly fine weapons in this game not just "OMG  THAT  YOUTUBER  JUST  SAID  THIS  WEAPON  IS  THE BEST WEAPON IN THE GAME HE MUST BE RIGHT BECAUSE HE IS A YOUTUBER!!!"

 

Hell i have a 4 forma Hek that can do perfectly fine in T3 Survival, and that's considered a bad weapon by most ppl.

 

That being said, my main loadout is:

 

Warframe: Valkyr (dont give me that look, i don't use a perma hysteria build, Valkyr can do much more than just being immortal forever)

Primary: Dread

Secondary: Akmagnus

Melee: D.Nikana

[Azawarau]

Nerf explosive weaponry, allows attica to use explosives. *sigh*

 

 

Lies. Back in closed beta even if you had a good gun and a decent leveled gun (lvl skill tree thing) you were still going to die, unless you played carefully like a ninja. If you rushed back then you were most likely to die. You had to kill enemies carefully, if you were spotted you would have to get the hell out of dodge and behind cover. God I miss those days.

Explosions with the attica are sub par even when built for explosions alone with mirage

 

Though it is fun

[SergeiTheBeast]

-snip-

 

You made it a point to cry a lot in your post OP. We get it, you don't like Rhino nor do you like Boltor prime.

 

Concidentally, no one cares.

 

I run Rhino Prime and I end up carrying my teams 90 percent of the time. I don't complain about it, I help them understand where they fell short and advise them how they can improve. If someone enjoys a certain playstyle, you aren't going to change their mind.  Run your set up, be prepaired to help the new guy out. Act like a vet and teach the rookies the ropes. It's not hard, It's the right thing to do.

 

Loadout.

 

Soma  (Hitscan duh)

Brakk

Dual Ichors

 

That right there is my  main loadout. Soma covers my distance, Brakk handles things up close and Dual ichors are a mobility tool as well as decent damage.

 

Seriously though OP, no offense intended by my words to you, but you Gotta man up and take charge. It's just what the vets do.

[Semshol]

This post reeks of elitism.

 

Well, when you have to carry 6/6 teams, i think that there's a little bit of a problem.

 

 

Nerf Boltor people will go for Soma. 

 

Yup and then they'd run into the same problems of ammo efficiency. Soma really doesn't do much past 40 minutes. Hence why I tried to get something with status so I wasn't getting destroyed by armor scaling.

 

 

Eh

 

He seems anti elitism in a rebellious way

 

I like him

 

We've held opposing points of views at times, but thanks for the like.

 

 

-snip-

 

I definitely see a lot of the points you've made and I do agree to an extent. I also feel like maybe people on the forums need to be more vocal about load-outs that are really taking them through the 40mins, 60mins, 80mins, that sort of thing.

 

Status is actually chucked into the backseat by a lot of players who don't understand how powerful the corrosive/heat combo can be since Heat has DoT + Stun. Thermite rounds have never looked better. Or if you like freezing them solid, no need for glaxion. Rime Rounds will handle that for ya.

 

I guess a lot of players just aren't experimenting enough, or they are just going to warframe builder, comparing a weapon to the Boltor Prime, without understanding how to actually interpret the numbers on their DPS calculator.

 

 

Boltor prime gives the highest level of reliable dps in relation to the skill taken to use it.

The Latron Prime is by far the better weapon, yet it sees less usage because aiming is too hard.

The meta is defined by consensus of the majority, it is what people tend to gravitate towards.

I usually run Banshee because of all the strengths she has, with Cc, damage and utility

People say she is crap because they don't have the skills needed to exploit.her talents.

Moving on towards mirage now, simply because I like the cut of her gib, and the fact that I can be selfish when I play her. My danage output is greater than that of the rest of my team combined, so why bother ressing them. Plus I never get yelled at for not being a cc nachine or a power spammer.

 

I used to be one of the Banshee haters,now she's a permanent load-out, but I started experimenting because its what I like to do. Mirage can easily top dps, but I can top it on other frames as well. I still do rez my team-mates because 20% of my DPS is still DPS, but I feel like information is not being made properly available to the people who are just seeing the Boltor Prime and going for it. A lot of the best players don't share their views on forums so these incredible load-outs, some of which I've copied, just sort of..stay out of sight unless you actually play with them.

[_Rue_]

Wait what happened to the load outs?

 

I just used this for the past few days:

 

Excalibur Prime

Braton Vandal

Lato Prime

Skana Prime

Huras

 

People do stare at the frame and the gun. :3

[BrotherIcarus]

Because the game has never had any structure. People go get a few mods and a decent gun and, bam, Mercury and Venus can be crushed without any difficulty. This becomes their baseline because there's nothing else setting a standard. They spend the whole game operating under the self-imposed assumption that they should be in little danger and vaporize anything they look at funny.

 

Then they get to end game and they declare the ride has been a boring grind with no challenge, all damage skills are broken/UP because they don't one shot anything anymore, and all mods that aren't raw damage are "band aids" or "useless" because they have to stack pure damage and pure EHP to keep up that level of power, where they're super strong and super tough.

 

Then they go to endless and they expect to STILL be at that level of no challenge, no cover used, no team work, so invincible snowglobes, team invulnerability buffs and 60m PBAoE hard stuns + blind that goes through walls with no max targets are perfectly reasonable int heir minds. How else can they play for 60min straight vs the highest level enemies scaling upwards the whole time!?

 

I've been telling DE we need structure for a very long time and I'm really not seeing it being taken to heart. Tacticool alerts will be a high point of the game for me personally but they also represent a half-measure that will not affect the core issue. People will consider the tacticool alerts the outlier and the existing problems with pacing and lack of reference for intended strength will continue. Meanwhile Boltor Prime remains MR2 and Soma can, AFAIK, be used at MR0 if someone buys it for plat.

 

I've been telling DE we need conditional damage and defense, rather than free stats for a very long time. DE_Steve even said he liked the idea of damage mods based on gameplay like +% damage on unaware targets or +% damage on headshots, but that was several updates ago and nothing since. Meanwhile events are giving away more and higher free stats through new mods.

 

This is the greatest weakness of the game and it needs to get fixed ASAP, before anyone else's pet issue. It's what causes people to feel like they're grinding because the total lack of risk or conditional performance makes the game a snoozefest when you just bring OP gear. It's what makes end-game bad, because everyone who reaches the end game has no idea how to play against a challenge since they've spent all their playtime as a God in OP gear. It's what makes PUG's trash as no one has any need or desire to do anything but flash through on their Zorren copter to see the mission complete screen. 

 

 

 

/rant.

I agree.

 

But wow I just realized almost none of these issues apply if you started out soloing. 

[Zhyzak]

Moving on towards mirage now, simply because I like the cut of her gib, and the fact that I can be selfish when I play her. My danage output is greater than that of the rest of my team combined, so why bother ressing them. Plus I never get yelled at for not being a cc nachine or a power spammer.

This is why I pretty much dislike most Mirage players, lately. They're like Rushing Rhino 2.0.

 

Edit: Tossing this up here, my reply to the below.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Zhyzak

[Ailissa]

This is why I pretty much dislike most Mirage players, lately. They're like Rushing Rhino 2.0.

 

And this is what grates my nerves about this community.

 

This right here sums up what irritates me the most.

 

People like this.

 

"I dislike people that play "insert frame here" because they do what I don't like".

 

Do you have any idea how pathetic it sounds?

[Semshol]

-snip-

 

That is true and I'm glad you noticed all of the other weapons, they're great and I do run some of them in games :D

 

As for Rhino not being a bad frame, he's definitely not. He has his place in the game, but I don't see him as an end-game frame because there are other frames that do the same job, but better kinda lol.

 

Boltor Prime isn't a bad gun, but a lot of people forget that they need a good secondary to cover up the ammo problems. They usually don't bring one ._.

 

 

-snip-

 

Warframe: Valkyr (dont give me that look, i don't use a perma hysteria build, Valkyr can do much more than just being immortal forever)

Primary: Dread

Secondary: Akmagnus

Melee: D.Nikana

 

Valkyr is a fine frame, I do like Warcry based builds, but I am more of a shield lover, so if I alternate away from Loki, I tend to like Mag because of Shield Polarize. I think I have a bit of Michael Bay in me because of explosions.

 

Akmagnus are also incredible, great status + great crits, definitely epic

 

 

Explosions with the attica are sub par even when built for explosions alone with mirage

 

Though it is fun

 

Fun, but I try not to use it because screen-shake = bad for team-mates lol

 

 

You made it a point to cry a lot in your post OP. We get it, you don't like Rhino nor do you like Boltor prime.

 

Concidentally, no one cares.

 

I run Rhino Prime and I end up carrying my teams 90 percent of the time. I don't complain about it, I help them understand where they fell short and advise them how they can improve. If someone enjoys a certain playstyle, you aren't going to change their mind.  Run your set up, be prepaired to help the new guy out. Act like a vet and teach the rookies the ropes. It's not hard, It's the right thing to do.

 

Loadout.

 

Soma  (Hitscan duh)

Brakk

Dual Ichors

 

That right there is my  main loadout. Soma covers my distance, Brakk handles things up close and Dual ichors are a mobility tool as well as decent damage.

 

Seriously though OP, no offense intended by my words to you, but you Gotta man up and take charge. It's just what the vets do.

 

You must meet some VERY nice people who are willing to learn.

 

I have trained my own cell and mentored many Tenno, but when it comes to PUGs you can't teach a man to play between waves.

 

It's not an issue about manning up, it's about knowledge being effectively transmitted to people through means other than youtube and a damage comparison table on the wiki.

 

The meta is so ingrained into folk that they're not willing to try things outside of it and that I feel is something that MR10+ players should be the ones to do. Especially since to get to that rank, they have to have tried different frames and weapons and yet they revert back to the meta when it comes time to farm the new prime. Why...just why T3T, that's what I'm trying to figure out.

[Semshol]

Wait what happened to the load outs?

 

I just used this for the past few days:

 

Excalibur Prime

Braton Vandal

Lato Prime

Skana Prime

Huras

 

People do stare at the frame and the gun. :3

 

Long-story short: 3 players all with Boltor Prime. I'm the dude with the Quanta. Wave 40 happened, suddenly everyone no ammo. Got dudes trying to Orthos Prime stuff. Was bad. End-game stats: 50% of damage was all me, top kills as well.

 

Basically when it comes time to farm something, the Boltor Primes come out en-masse.

 

 

This is why I pretty much dislike most Mirage players, lately. They're like Rushing Rhino 2.0.

 

A lot of them are bad.

 

 

And this is what grates my nerves about this community.

 

This right here sums up what irritates me the most.

 

People like this.

 

"I dislike people that play "insert frame here" because they do what I don't like".

 

Do you have any idea how pathetic it sounds?

 

There are a lot of things that players shouldn't do because of etiquette. 

 

I.e. don't play a mirage and spam Quanta Secondary fire, unless you really gotta save people.

 

i.e. don't play a mirage and shake everyone's screen with Attica.

 

It is not pathetic to have things you dislike. What is pathetic is that people have to feel this way, because there is no soft etiquette amongst players that ask them to make for a smooth gaming experience for others.

[Inversus]

It's an easy weapon to get and use in the early game, and if you've gone through applying formas to it early on, there's not much reason to change it going into the late game.

It does a decent dps, like the other weapons you mentioned, and is pretty easy to just pick up and use since it's just an auto-rifle. Slap ammo mutation on it and it'll work effeciently, I don't see why it lacks viability at all or why you seem to have such a problem with it.

[Catalyst1945]

Personally, I still use the Paris Prime. I've got 4 formas on that baby. I was doing a t4 survival with some randoms earlier today and one of them (who surprisingly, had a Boltor Prime) was flaming me for having a 'useless weapon'. I wonder what was going through his mind when we got to 40 minutes in and I was still one shotting the heavy gunners while he had to revert to his melee for lack of ammo .-.

[Semshol]

It's an easy weapon to get and use in the early game, and if you've gone through applying formas to it early on, there's not much reason to change it going into the late game.

It does a decent dps, like the other weapons you mentioned, and is pretty easy to just pick up and use since it's just an auto-rifle. Slap ammo mutation on it and it'll work effeciently, I don't see why it lacks viability at all or why you seem to have such a problem with it.

 

Most people don't put it on the weapon because it hurts their 'DeePeeEsss'

 

I would not mind it if someone walked into a game with it and used it up to 60 minutes without once saying, "Ammo low guys" or "need extract soon, me almost no ammo".

 

Also they don't mod for status AT ALL, which (on a weapon that doesn't have crits) is very bad not to have when gunners have insane armor scaling.

 

Wave 40+ everyone can't do anything and I have to cover for four people. Even for Loki, it is impossible to do so.

 

 

Personally, I still use the Paris Prime. I've got 4 formas on that baby. I was doing a t4 survival with some randoms earlier today and one of them (who surprisingly, had a Boltor Prime) was flaming me for having a 'useless weapon'. I wonder what was going through his mind when we got to 40 minutes in and I was still one shotting the heavy gunners while he had to revert to his melee for lack of ammo .-.

 

 

One dude commented that my Quanta, according to Warframe Builder, had only half his DPS. He suggested I get a Boltor Prime.

 

I did 50% of the damage that the whole team did, only used Secondary fire a couple of times because ain't nobody got time for that.

 

So believe me, I feel thy pain.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Semshol

[UnknownBlademaster]

I play this game without any friends, I was barely decent at the shooter genre (only have played CoD MW2 and BOps 2 campaign alone), and that really affected how I played this game. Yes, I have Soma, but that's just for those invasions when I want to be able to mow down those suckas and rush the mission for 5 times.

 

My main frames are:

Loki P - Radial Disarm for survs or Invis for solo caps/exts;

Nekros for farming resources/mods;

Nova for parkour stuff like the caches in the GC event not too long ago, mowing down hordes, speeding up hordes in most infested defenses;

 

Primaries:

Penta. Yes, I still use it whenever I play higher level infested defenses;

Soma. I've already explained this.

Latron Wraith. Whenever I feel like murdering some bosses or just headshotting every moving thing, this is my to-go thing.

 

Secondaries:

Detron. No other secondary weapon in this game makes me feel as good as using Detron. And yes, I've tested EVERY SINGLE secondary weapon in this game besides Brakk.

 

Melee:

Dual Zoren. Coptering and killing when I'm using Invis Loki for that 4x damage multiplier on unaware enemies.

Scoliac. It's just so damn good, and the range is like an extra cherry on top of your already awesome ice cream cone.

Jat Kittag. Whenever I feel sad or just want to laugh my a$$ off, this is absolutely neccesary.

[Sixty5]

This is why I pretty much dislike most Mirage players, lately. They're like Rushing Rhino 2.0.

I like to lone wolf it up, and basically run public games as if I'm solo.

Why? Because I am a scumbag.

Also because by playing like that teammates are a non issue. It doesn't matter if I have a scrublord, a noob or a leecher with me, I still enjoy myself and pass the mission.

And Mirage is nowhere near as cheap as Rhino. She's as frail as glass half the time and has no instant cc.