Why Is The Meta, Even The Meta...

[Semshol]

I play videogames for enjoyment.

 

I'm just crazy like that.

 

Oh rly? Me too.

 

Context is important. I was implying that we play for a purpose when joining in on PUGs, as the conversation prior to the statement might allude to :D

[Ailissa]

Someone is always wrong actually, because there is a lot of misinformation going around the game. Playing for enjoyment is fine, but when someone does it at the expense of a host who had to take the time to farm and then use his T4 key. Is that not leeching? Is the host then to blame for not letting anyone into his party? Their key, their rules.

 

We do not play for our enjoyment, we play to achieve a purpose. If a person is playing for fun, they can play with their clan or with their friends. If you bring nothing but crud to a mission and contribute nothing. That doesn't mean you can "play how you want". It means you're leeching and ruining the gameplay for others. Your fun comes at the expense of other people's fun. That is not cool in a co-op game.

 

I level weapons in T4, but I also contribute the most to my team irrespective if I'm leveling or playing my fully-decked loadout. A good Tenno can manage this. Those Tenno who hide behind the excuse of 'fun' or 'freedom' cannot, and simply want others to compromise for their sake.

 

Where, oh where, did I mention T4?

 

I'll wait while you find the part about me going to T4 and leeching or any comment about people enjoying leeching T4....

 

 

 

 

 

No, nothing?

 

Dark Sectors are there for weapon levelling, they are easy XP.

 

And some of us DO play for enjoyment. If i'm not enjoying what i'm playing then I stop playing. If something isn't fun then it's a waste of my time doing it.

 

And farming for T4 keys to take completely random people is the very definition of a stupid idea. Of course you aren't going to get the absolute best team you can hope for, you've invited people that just want the shiny. 

 

When I do T3 or T4 I go with my clan. Anything else is easy enough to be done with practically anybody.

 

As for your last statement about wanting others to compromise for their sake ... is that not what you are asking people to do?

 

Compromise for YOUR sake....

 

No, just no. If you don't like what random players are doing then don't join random games, simple as.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Ailissa

[Semshol]

-snip-

 

So if that's the case, what about Tenno who don't join clans?

 

What about Tenno who may not have friends. I didn't have any when I first started.

Are you saying that the poor level of skill in PUGs should be ignored simply because one has the safe-haven of a clan/alliance to play with?

 

I don't agree with that at all, because an improvement to the general player base is an improvement that helps all Tenno. This is why I want the information about weapons to be propagated. I want info about load-outs and better choices to be highlighted to the new Tenno who are joining us. Instead of people huddling inside clans and then ignoring anyone outside of it.

 

Not liking what random players do doesn't mean I shun it. I have in me, the power to make them aware and some people are beginning to contribute to that. It's a brilliant start.

[Ailissa]

So if that's the case, what about Tenno who don't join clans?

 

What about Tenno who may not have friends. I didn't have any when I first started.

Are you saying that the poor level of skill in PUGs should be ignored simply because one has the safe-haven of a clan/alliance to play with?

 

I don't agree with that at all, because an improvement to the general player base is an improvement that helps all Tenno. This is why I want the information about weapons to be propagated. I want info about load-outs and better choices to be highlighted to the new Tenno who are joining us. Instead of people huddling inside clans and then ignoring anyone outside of it.

 

Not liking what random players do doesn't mean I shun it. I have in me, the power to make them aware and some people are beginning to contribute to that. It's a brilliant start.

 

That isn't what you said though.

 

You said people were wrong with what they were doing. If they are enjoying it then it isn't wrong. Telling them there are other ways to do it is the right thing to do, telling them they are wrong isn't. You tell people they are wrong then they aren't going to listen to you, quite opposite, they are likely to think you are a complete .... male breeding organ.

[Deccode]

Playing a grammar nazi, while having typos as well. Hypocrites awesome species.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Deccode

[Elenortirie]

PS: Valkyr is useless in any situation outside of reviving teammates. Even with hysteria. (You can argue with me but I'm going to conclude my victory here to save myself the time of converting you from your current religion of play2fail mentality.)

 

hmmm will remind it you if we'll meet on public and I'll manage to outdo you with my valkyr - Its often for me to outdo most of teammates with my valkyr.... even on highlevel content

 

actually there is great bunch of situations where valkyr is greatly usefull

If you really played her and still believe in what did you said - you just don't understand what that frame is made for. whole story. atm I main Valkyr and by 90% of times I'm far from being useless (sometimes when farming exp on infested def only up to some wave teammates are doing so great that they just kill aqll stuff good enough without my assistance... as I said up to some wave)

[Abenoki]

The instant anyone says "noobframe" or "noobgear" I seem to instantly disregard their opinions as they probably don't actually know enough about the game to have a valid one.

[Semshol]

That isn't what you said though.

 

You said people were wrong with what they were doing. If they are enjoying it then it isn't wrong. Telling them there are other ways to do it is the right thing to do, telling them they are wrong isn't. You tell people they are wrong then they aren't going to listen to you, quite opposite, they are likely to think you are a complete .... male breeding organ.

 

Well my attitude on forums is honestly very different to how I am in-game. I'm rarely a $&*^ in-game unless they're being total nut jobs, in-game I usually explain differences in a factual manner and I stick to a very neutral tone.

 

On the forums, I take a different attitude, because we're also coming here to be entertained somewhat. Dull posts get boring.

 

I honestly didn't expect the thread to go this long though and as I highlighted in a previous post, made it just for the lulz, but along the way decided that due to the actually good response by a lot of people posting their load-outs and sharing, that maybe there might be some hope to implant the seed of experimentation into others.

 

Anyway back on topic: I still do believe people are doing it wrong, when they choose to stand by a particular load-out above all others. Which was what my original rant was about. The meta should not exist because there is no meta. Experimentation leads us to greater opportunities and we can find astounding ways to use some weapons that we might have felt were previously limiting or simply mastery fodder.

 

For example, the Grakata + Sonar is an interesting combination, with manual off-setting for the recoil, you can take advantage of weakspots and proc a TON of status on the enemies (assuming you have all necessary event mods). This creates a very deadly play-style in PUGs because you can deal high-damage + remain efficient into later levels by stripping off enemy armor until the reduction is minimal/nil. There are also other interesting combinations that make weird, but cool stuff happen.

 

Problem is, what you see in PUGs is a lot of reversion to meta, and unless someone is kind enough to go above and beyond their team-play duties, constantly dropping ammo/energy restores etc. PUGs tend to fall apart past wave 40 when their usual boltor primes aren't really working well. So it is my hope to improve that through awareness, although I do it on forums in a snarky and completely $&*^ish manner.

[Macdermott]

I'm quoting this just so people coming to the thread late can see it.  These points are very valid.

 

The rest of you who are bickering with each other and pretending to have your feelings hurt because someone insulted you - just hush now.  Simmer.  Simmer down.

Because the game has never had any structure. People go get a few mods and a decent gun and, bam, Mercury and Venus can be crushed without any difficulty. This becomes their baseline because there's nothing else setting a standard. They spend the whole game operating under the self-imposed assumption that they should be in little danger and vaporize anything they look at funny.

 

Then they get to end game and they declare the ride has been a boring grind with no challenge, all damage skills are broken/UP because they don't one shot anything anymore, and all mods that aren't raw damage are "band aids" or "useless" because they have to stack pure damage and pure EHP to keep up that level of power, where they're super strong and super tough.

 

Then they go to endless and they expect to STILL be at that level of no challenge, no cover used, no team work, so invincible snowglobes, team invulnerability buffs and 60m PBAoE hard stuns + blind that goes through walls with no max targets are perfectly reasonable int heir minds. How else can they play for 60min straight vs the highest level enemies scaling upwards the whole time!?

 

I've been telling DE we need structure for a very long time and I'm really not seeing it being taken to heart. Tacticool alerts will be a high point of the game for me personally but they also represent a half-measure that will not affect the core issue. People will consider the tacticool alerts the outlier and the existing problems with pacing and lack of reference for intended strength will continue. Meanwhile Boltor Prime remains MR2 and Soma can, AFAIK, be used at MR0 if someone buys it for plat.

 

I've been telling DE we need conditional damage and defense, rather than free stats for a very long time. DE_Steve even said he liked the idea of damage mods based on gameplay like +% damage on unaware targets or +% damage on headshots, but that was several updates ago and nothing since. Meanwhile events are giving away more and higher free stats through new mods.

 

This is the greatest weakness of the game and it needs to get fixed ASAP, before anyone else's pet issue. It's what causes people to feel like they're grinding because the total lack of risk or conditional performance makes the game a snoozefest when you just bring OP gear. It's what makes end-game bad, because everyone who reaches the end game has no idea how to play against a challenge since they've spent all their playtime as a God in OP gear. It's what makes PUG's trash as no one has any need or desire to do anything but flash through on their Zorren copter to see the mission complete screen. 

 

 

 

/rant.

I prefer playing with a challenge.  A winnable challenge, but a challenge nonetheless.  I quit using Ash with Boltor because I didn't like the 4-spam and ragdoll-spray playstyle.  Granted, his abilities top out at higher level, but by that time I was already moved on to more fun frames anyway.

[Semshol]

hmmm will remind it you if we'll meet on public and I'll manage to outdo you with my valkyr - Its often for me to outdo most of teammates with my valkyr.... even on highlevel content

 

actually there is great bunch of situations where valkyr is greatly usefull

If you really played her and still believe in what did you said - you just don't understand what that frame is made for. whole story. atm I main Valkyr and by 90% of times I'm far from being useless (sometimes when farming exp on infested def only up to some wave teammates are doing so great that they just kill aqll stuff good enough without my assistance... as I said up to some wave)

I rarely see Valk on any high-level content to be honest.

 

Not putting down your playstyle or anything, it's just that she's not a common frame.

 

Most people would take Nova over Valk as her slow is more team-friendly than Warcry.

 

It's not about play-style, just about efficiency.

 

My 2 cents on the matter.

 

Note: I am also not the person you were replying to. I'm just saying x'D

Edited September 30, 2014 by Semshol

[Elenortirie]

I rarely see Valk on any high-level content to be honest.

 

Not putting down your playstyle or anything, it's just that she's not a common frame.

 

Most people would take Nova over Valk as her slow is more team-friendly than Warcry.

 

It's not about play-style, just about efficiency.

 

My 2 cents on the matter.

 

Note: I am also not the person you were replying to. I'm just saying x'D

 

I noticed :)

and honestly I rarely see second valkyr in team :P

My point though was - that well built and well played valkyr is far from being "useless except for reviving" as the guy I answered to stated

also there are some stuff where valkyr have upper hand over nova in highlevel:

1st Nova is paper-tank while well-built Valkyr is hardest to kill frame

2nd Nova cannot "save" objective on defense mission "on the time support will come" by stuning enemies

3rd I believe Nova frame is more relying on her powers than valkyr that may be either advantage or disadvantage depending on situation and point of view

 

also - if we are about efficiency: lets not forget about roles of frames here - we cannot compare "efficiency" of dedicated CC frame against the "efficiency" of frame that serves totaly other rolein a team of course in her role Nova will be mre effective but will be useless in role that Valkyr covers - niche role tbh but still usefull when the time is right

[Deccode]

I noticed :)

and honestly I rarely see second valkyr in team :P

My point though was - that well built and well played valkyr is far from being "useless except for reviving" as the guy I answered to stated

also there are some stuff where valkyr have upper hand over nova in highlevel:

1st Nova is paper-tank while well-built Valkyr is hardest to kill frame

2nd Nova cannot "save" objective on defense mission "on the time support will come" by stuning enemies

3rd I believe Nova frame is more relying on her powers than valkyr that may be either advantage or disadvantage depending on situation and point of view

 

also - if we are about efficiency: lets not forget about roles of frames here - we cannot compare "efficiency" of dedicated CC frame against the "efficiency" of frame that serves totaly other rolein a team of course in her role Nova will be mre effective but will be useless in role that Valkyr covers - niche role tbh but still usefull when the time is right

Nova: oh look I have to cross the room with all the heavy gunners, but I'm gonna die for sure. *valkyr appears and cleans the room with her immortality* Nova: valkyr is useless I got m.prime

That's how most of the people on the forum thinks.

[Teqnologyque]

Can't I just use Boltor Prime because it's the one, singular, as in no other gun will do for me, gun I've wanted since I started playing?

 

I hate how people just assume things about other players based on their load-out.

 

An seriously, how the F*** does one even CONSIDER running out of ammunition for the Boltor Prime when I can go through an entire match and never drop below 300 total ammo-count. Are people seriously that terribad at shooting? I mean, really, it's a very simple concept. You point the open end of your gun at the bad guys, you pull the trigger for half a second, and bolt the sonuva*@##$ to the wall (Or ceiling, that was a fun day...)

[saltshaker42]

I haven't really been playing meta with other players who are as good as me. Not that the people I play with are bad, just that they're relatively new. That being said, I do carry the team a lot, but never see a boltor prime.

 

My loadouts of choice:

Defense missions -

Warframe: Frost P

Weapon: Latron P (high dmg crit build with punch through, usually with a fire mod since I don't have the space for corrosive).

Akmagnus (I only really use it if I go down. I'm not much of a sidearm guy, and I don't have any that are particularly good).

Dragon Nikana (channel build. I would prefer Gram, but I'm waiting for the heavy melee rework).

 

Survival missions -

Warframe: Oberon/Volt/Loki/Trinity (Basically whichever frame I feel like playing as. That usually means my favorite - Loki, Volt, and Oberon).

Weapon: Latron P (this thing is a beast).

Akmagnus (meh).

Dragon Nikana (again, would prefer Gram).

 

Interception mission -

Warframe: Usually Loki.

Weapon: Latron P (what can I say).

Akmagnus (I could use the dispair, but ever since dmg 2.0 it doesn't seem to be as effective anymore).

Dragon Nikana (As Loki, I would actually take this weapon over Gram).

 

Any other dildos mission -

Warframe: Volt (he's my hands down favorite. Can't wait for Volt P).

Weapon: Latron P (This is a given now. I could use Soma, Penta, Dread, Strun Wraith, or Snipetron Vandal or something silly like that, but... You see, I played Halo 3...).

Akmagnus (This time in case I wanna be James Bond at the end of my mission - silence mod).

Gram (I can actually use it now).

[-Ozymandias-]

You're clearly playing with people much worse then you, try not playing with pubs or make some friends.

 

 

Also, heres me in a T4D using a Boltor Prime, the end screen glitched out but you can check rankings in game. I had the middle score. http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/541879712689123471/2FA3A65A39F61B3916B73B8C78626FF0F111C4CA/

lol those 2 guys are my clan mates, and one of the bests (i did say this on my post, i also mentioned their ranks)

And you are using Mirage, i was using Valkyr.

 

Anything can be op using mirage

Edited September 30, 2014 by -HB-Angainor

[Sleepwalkaz]

And this is what grates my nerves about this community.

 

This right here sums up what irritates me the most.

 

People like this.

 

"I dislike people that play "insert frame here" because they do what I don't like".

 

Do you have any idea how pathetic it sounds?

Ill back you up on that one. not everyone has 300+ hours played. people are new to the game so expect them to make mistakes. i remember when i first started out. i thought the latron prime was jesus weapon. then i got a boltor prime. i love both guns but its situational. if i want to to go 40+ mins in a t4 im going to use my latron. if im in a pug doing some low level defense and everyone elses conclave score is below 1000 im going to use my boltor. why? because when people are dropping left to right and sometimes u just need to spray entire waves down. thats why i love the boltor prime. ive got five forma on my latron and 5 forma on my boltor. i choose when and where its needed. loki prime ftw tho cuz hes good in anything.

[Semshol]

Can't I just use Boltor Prime because it's the one, singular, as in no other gun will do for me, gun I've wanted since I started playing?

 

I hate how people just assume things about other players based on their load-out.

 

An seriously, how the F*** does one even CONSIDER running out of ammunition for the Boltor Prime when I can go through an entire match and never drop below 300 total ammo-count. Are people seriously that terribad at shooting? I mean, really, it's a very simple concept. You point the open end of your gun at the bad guys, you pull the trigger for half a second, and bolt the sonuva*@##$ to the wall (Or ceiling, that was a fun day...)

 

You'd be surprised what stupidity can achieve.

 

Dudes run out of ammo and just...cry. Like literally they crouch and do nothing. Not even going braveheart into melee sometimes LOL

 

I haven't really been playing meta with other players who are as good as me. Not that the people I play with are bad, just that they're relatively new. That being said, I do carry the team a lot, but never see a boltor prime.

 

My loadouts of choice:

Defense missions -

Warframe: Frost P

Weapon: Latron P (high dmg crit build with punch through, usually with a fire mod since I don't have the space for corrosive).

Akmagnus (I only really use it if I go down. I'm not much of a sidearm guy, and I don't have any that are particularly good).

Dragon Nikana (channel build. I would prefer Gram, but I'm waiting for the heavy melee rework).

 

Survival missions -

Warframe: Oberon/Volt/Loki/Trinity (Basically whichever frame I feel like playing as. That usually means my favorite - Loki, Volt, and Oberon).

Weapon: Latron P (this thing is a beast).

Akmagnus (meh).

Dragon Nikana (again, would prefer Gram).

 

Interception mission -

Warframe: Usually Loki.

Weapon: Latron P (what can I say).

Akmagnus (I could use the dispair, but ever since dmg 2.0 it doesn't seem to be as effective anymore).

Dragon Nikana (As Loki, I would actually take this weapon over Gram).

 

Any other dildos mission -

Warframe: Volt (he's my hands down favorite. Can't wait for Volt P).

Weapon: Latron P (This is a given now. I could use Soma, Penta, Dread, Strun Wraith, or Snipetron Vandal or something silly like that, but... You see, I played Halo 3...).

Akmagnus (This time in case I wanna be James Bond at the end of my mission - silence mod).

Gram (I can actually use it now).

 

Nice load outs :D

 

Also, if you are a despair fan, try Hikou Prime. Less damage, but insane status procs.

 

As for melee, can't say I'm a heavy or D. Nikana fan. I prefer the Dakra Prime (channel build) and Attrex/Scoliac (non-channel). With Atterax for crit :)

 

 

Ill back you up on that one. not everyone has 300+ hours played. people are new to the game so expect them to make mistakes. i remember when i first started out. i thought the latron prime was jesus weapon. then i got a boltor prime. i love both guns but its situational. if i want to to go 40+ mins in a t4 im going to use my latron. if im in a pug doing some low level defense and everyone elses conclave score is below 1000 im going to use my boltor. why? because when people are dropping left to right and sometimes u just need to spray entire waves down. thats why i love the boltor prime. ive got five forma on my latron and 5 forma on my boltor. i choose when and where its needed. loki prime ftw tho cuz hes good in anything.

 

See if people did stuff like you, no one would complain. People need to learn to work with their equipment.

 

Problem is a lot of the newer players treat their weapons as God-tier and force their way into T4 and such, which only brings down their team. Because they haven't yet understood that their weapon is NOT God-tier and they need to synergize it with their frames. Any weapon with punch-through can spray down a wave though, which is why I mod all weapons for it. Giving up slight DPS for that punch-through is what saves teams :D. and it gives me more options to choose from when I select a weapon. Burston Prime for example is really crazy and I look at it as an upgrade from Boltor because of the status chance. My god the status chance <3

[IANOBW]

Complains about Rhino Prime fanboys, their Boltor Prime nerf guns and dps - runs Loki Prime, the Detron and calls his preffered playstyle "top DPS"

 

You are something else.

[Semshol]

Complains about Rhino Prime fanboys, their Boltor Prime nerf guns and dps - runs Loki Prime, the Detron and calls his preffered playstyle "top DPS"

 

You are something else.

 

Well considering the fact that it was designed to COUNTER the fact that Boltor Prime is thought of as top DPS. I am suggesting, albeit in a rebellious way as pointed out just a few posts down, a better meta than the one commonly entrenched in the mind of Tennos.

 

Yes I am elitist scum.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2014 by Semshol

[IANOBW]

Well considering the fact that it was designed to COUNTER the fact that Boltor Prime is thought of as top DPS. I am suggesting, albeit in a rebellious way as pointed out just a few posts down, a better meta than the one commonly entrenched in the mind of Tennos.

 

Yes I am elitist scum.

 

If you were trying to reforge the meta, you would start by not taking the detron. An elitist like you should know that.

[Semshol]

If you were trying to reforge the meta, you would start by not taking the detron. An elitist like you should know that.

 

Well that was my Meta. If you play a game with me, I can bring anything from Hikou Prime to AkStilletos etc. It all depends on frame synergy. 1 weapon for 1 loadout, rarely 1 weapon for two loadouts because certain frames work with certain weapons. This is highlighted in later posts and pointed out by many others.

[IANOBW]

Well that was my Meta. If you play a game with me, I can bring anything from Hikou Prime to AkStilletos etc. It all depends on frame synergy. 1 weapon for 1 loadout, rarely 1 weapon for two loadouts because certain frames work with certain weapons. This is highlighted in later posts and pointed out by many others.

 

I don't think you understand what "meta" means. You'd be expecting everyone previously using rhinoP and boltorP to suddenly shift to the loadout you described. We'd have lokiP all over the place, not giving a crap about the team, door heroeing, outputting loads of damage then exhausting themselves of ammo halfway through survivals and defences, and then we'd have to put up with them while they complained about our low dps. Absolutely nothing would change.

[Atomic_Beam]

I use a paris prime and I do more kill then anyone with it. I see no one using this weapon cause people are just bad at this game.

This is how I carry my teamates and those noobs were all rank 11+ ... and this was a t4 defense also.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Atomic_Beam

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

Personally, I still use the Paris Prime. I've got 4 formas on that baby. I was doing a t4 survival with some randoms earlier today and one of them (who surprisingly, had a Boltor Prime) was flaming me for having a 'useless weapon'. I wonder what was going through his mind when we got to 40 minutes in and I was still one shotting the heavy gunners while he had to revert to his melee for lack of ammo .-.

love the paris prime. I use that bow almost all the time and it rarely lets me down in terms of damage. 

I have a bolter prime too, didnt like it much.

 

I do have to point out something however for this thread. rhino is a very good frame to carry a party with when no one knows what there doing. its happned many times, and I dont mind showing people what to do.

 

I have every frame, and swtich up my load out often for fun. everything is good if you know how to use it, and there are things I don't know how to use, but it dosent mean they are not good, it means im not good with them. aside that, its a game and meant to be fun. <-< go have fun. is good for you. for instance, make a penta with max punch thought. theirs no resion for it, but it can be hilarious. or nail things to walls with stuff.

[Atomic_Beam]

love the paris prime. I use that bow almost all the time and it rarely lets me down in terms of damage. 

I have a bolter prime too, didnt like it much.

 

I do have to point out something however for this thread. rhino is a very good frame to carry a party with when no one knows what there doing. its happned many times, and I dont mind showing people what to do.

 

I have every frame, and swtich up my load out often for fun. everything is good if you know how to use it, and there are things I don't know how to use, but it dosent mean they are not good, it means im not good with them. aside that, its a game and meant to be fun. <-< go have fun. is good for you. for instance, make a penta with max punch thought. theirs no resion for it, but it can be hilarious. or nail things to walls with stuff.

zephyr is better than rhino. Turbulence is better than iron skin and zephyr is 10x times faster with tailwind.