Why Don't Elemental Frames Have Immunities?

[(PSN)atpbx]

Frost doesnt slow down in his slow globe, Ember can stand in her own fireblast and WOF explosions and not be hurt, but her own fireball and smoldering timbers inflict damage.

 

Such logic.

 

Mag generates her own magnetic field, gets debuffed by magnetic enemies that dont also debuff their own troops shield.

 

At least that is consistent, as they could be a different polarities as that's why shield polarize doesn't cripple ally shields. 

 

However, giving the frames natural resistances would encourage diversity and playing styles.

 

Planning on a long Xini stand? be handy having a frame that wont be instantly killed by a million toxic ancients hitting you with unavoidable AOE toxin damage.

Whats that? Ember does more damage on frozen tile sets? Frost snow globe gets a debuff when there is fire near by?

 

Who would of thought such things possible! 

Edited September 29, 2014 by (PS4)atpbx

[unknow99]

Frost doesnt slow down in his slow globe, Ember can stand in her own fireblast and WOF explosions and not be hurt, but her own fireball and smoldering timbers inflict damage.

 

Such logic.

 

Mag generates her own magnetic field, gets debuffed by magnetic enemies that dont also debuff their own troops shield.

 

At least that is consistent, as they could be a different polarities as that's why shield polarize doesn't cripple ally shields. 

 

However, giving the frames natural resistances would encourage diversity and playing styles.

 

Planning on a long Xini stand? be handy having a frame that wont be instantly killed by a million toxic ancients hitting you with unavoidable AOE toxin damage.

Whats that? Ember does more damage on frozen tile sets? Frost snow globe gets a debuff when there is fire near by?

 

Who would of thought such things possible! 

If people react in a good manner to this implementation = nice diversity.

 

Else = frame discrimination. And this, kids, is bad.

[ValhaHazred]

A human using a flame-thrower isn't a fire bender...

 

That's a bad example. Benders aren't immune to their own element either, they can bend it away but if a hit lands they are affected as normal(see Zuko's burn scar)

 

Actually, I can't remember about any ice damage dealing enemies.

 

So far I think just Arctic Eximuses and Lech Kril. They could always add more ice types too!

 

If you give "elemental" frames immunity/resistance to their element (which actually would make sense), then the "non-elemental" frames need to get a little something as well. Fairness and all that jazz.

 

Some already do. Zephyr has her low G and Mirage can dodge faster.

[The_Traitor_Executioner]

This would actually make sense as the passive buff on Frost and Ember prime, which we're still waiting on.

 

I'd rather have Mag Prime get a small buff to shield capacity, but magnetic resistance could also work.

 

Who said anything about Primes?

[Marthrym]

Some already do. Zephyr has her low G and Mirage can dodge faster.

I wouldn't use the word "some" when only TWO frames have "special" features, out of 20.^^'

 

Zephyr's "special" is not that much of an advantage really. Being immune, or even just less susceptible to fire/poison damage is much more useful than being less affected by gravity. At least in my opinion, I completely understand that other players may not agree.^^

Don't get me wrong, it's fun and can help for jumps and parkour (also Tailwind), but since parkour isn't that much "refined" (also coptering is there), it's not as useful as being resistant/immune to an element.

 

Mirage just rolls faster. Hitscan projectiles don't care how fast you roll. They're hitscan. Luckily, while enemies have aimbot, their weapons don't have perfect accuracy. As for non hitscan projectiles, any frame that rolls at the right time can dodge them rather effortlessly. So I wouldn't say Mirage has a great "special" either, at least compared to an elemental resistance "special". It IS something, I know, better than nothing, but if you compare that kind of feature to something like being fireproof or immune to poison... kinda meh.^^'

Edited September 29, 2014 by Marthrym

[Tsukinoki]

Only problem with this is how unbalanced it would be on the frames.

It would be either completely useless (such as Frost since only TWO enemy does ice damage, and they are bosses, so ice resistance immunity (either to the proc or the damage itself) would be completely worthless), or it would be so OP that it wouldn't be funny (as in Ember being immune to some of the highest damaging mobs in the game (Napalm, Scorch)).

And what about all of the non-elemental frames?
What would they gain (or the elemental frames lose) to keep them all relatively balanced against each other?

You would either have to offset the elemental frames in some way, or you would have to give something of equal value to all the rest of the frames (which are the vast majority mind you).

Edited September 29, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[Zoid25]

YES! THANK YOU! THIS MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. +1!

[unknow99]

Either way, if they do this, it can't be a too unfair advantage!

[Rankii]

Wearing a suit thats apparently colder than space, thats constantly spewing ice out of the arms doesnt help you with ice resistance?

 

Yeah ok

Not to mention that these warframes are supposed to be "A conduit of their affliction" meaning that they're just focusing the abilities of the tenno wearing them. It's also backed up in Ember's codex entry mentioning a child on a ship burning one of the characters. It's the tenno with the power, but the warframes that let them use it well. Like a lens that focuses light...

It makes sense that the elemental frames are at least a little resistant to their signature elements.

 

(Thanks Vor for being relevant for once)

[motorfirebox]

Using a flame thrower does not make you fire-proof.

Sure, but the flame thrower is likely to have quite a bit of built-in heat resistance, no? And if you happen to be wearing the flame thrower...

[HAYABU5A]

frost would be immune to ice slowdown (void tile and eximus) and ice enviroment shield reduction, isnt it obvious 

its not much but its something 

[Deruser]

I guess they can give all frames one passive ability, it kind of makes them more unique and interesting.

[(PSN)Strifedecer]

This should clear the doubt...

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/305409-elemental-damage-on-warframes/

[Undrakh]

This should clear the doubt...

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/305409-elemental-damage-on-warframes/

not sure about that channeling energy into elemental.  but still even if its do channeling, fire throwing armor/weapon doesnt have to be resistant to fire??? are you serious? immunity will be unbalance game much as most says but resistance will not. it doesnt have to be MOD only resistance. and about non-elemental frames not sure what to give them to balance that people keeps talking. Come on ~25% resistance won't unbalance game really... or make it ~15% i want to see Ember standing one fire and taking less damage than others since she throws fire to enemies...

[Tar_Spit_Fire]

The elemental frames aren't immune/resistant to their respective elements?

 

The elemental frames abilities can't create elemental combos when used in tandem with one another?

 

Warframes don't innately have their abilities on the frames? Therein eliminating their need to be in mod slots. Shouldn't they have these outright and without needing mods since they're the primary difference of each frame other than looks?

yea and nekros is immune to death, liek he cannot be dieded im just kidding, but i agree tho..

[Tsukinoki]

@Undrakh
Even between just the elemental frames its horribly unbalanced.

Ember would see less damage from:
-Scorches
-Napalms
-Fusion Moas
-Standing in fire.

-Fire Eximus units

-Fire hyena unit
-Lech Kril second stage
-Sargus Ruk
Pretty good, wide range of cases against some of the highest damaging enemies in the game where she is suffering noticeably less damage than everyone else, especially against the very common fire eximus that can pop up nearly anywhere.
And decent resistances against 3 boss enemies.

Saryn would see less damage from:
-Mutalist Osprey
-Toxic Ancients
-Toxic Crawlers

-Venimous eximus units
-Some of Lephantis' attacks

So she would see a lot less health damage from attacks that ignore shields against infested.  Since no other factions use toxic damage she only sees the benefit against one faction out of 3, unlike ember seeing the bonus against 2 factions plus a random map modifier.
Only one boss enemy though would deal less damage.

Frost would see less damage from:
-Ice hyena unit
-Lech Kril first stage
And thats it.
Two boss enemies would deal less damage to him.  No other unit in the game uses ice damage and not even the artic eximus units deal ice damage.
At least he gets benefits against 2 bosses.

 

Volt would see less damage from:
-Arc traps
-Electric crawlers
So he would see a benefit in grineer levels and against a rare infested unit.
And generally you dont see volt used in grineer levels too heavily so...

As you can see, Ember and Saryn would get the most benefits out of it with ember coming out with the biggest benefits, what with being resistant to some of the highest damage dealers in the game.
Meanwhile Frost and Volt see next to no change in most circumstances and the benefit they gained from having a resistance to their own elements is pretty much worthless.

So even if we just had elemental frames and granted them all resistances it wouldn't work out because of how unbalanced it is.

That's the biggest issue with this idea.
 

Edited October 2, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I somewhat understand DE saying Saryn being immune to Toxic ancients would be unbalanced....but Toxic Ancients are immune to Toxic damage which Saryn has some Toxic only abilities...so I think those offset each other.

Anyways: I think only the Prime Versions should have immunity:

Ember Prime- immune to fire damage or Caustic/Ruk's Fire AoE attacks

Frost Prime- Immune to ice damage. Did not get a speed buff like Rhino so should be immune to Ice Slow and also immune to freezing temperature levels where Shields are halved.

Mag Prime- Should be immune to Magnetic damage. Including Grineer Sensor Doors and Ancient Disrupters.

Volt Prime - when he comes - should be immune to electric damage, including arc traps

If there was going to be a Saryn Prime- she should be immune to toxic....only Saryn Prime not normal Saryn.

(Not sure what Buff Ash Prime would get, but I assume it would be Stamina(or stamina regen) or Health/Shield buff)

If they do the element immunity or at least base innate resistance (meaning the resistance mods would scale) on Prime Warframes that would make it easier for DE to have a unique Prime Warframe enhancement with each Prime and not repeat any buffs.

Excalibur Prime has faster base shield recharge

Rhino Prime has speed

Loki Prime has energy pool boost

Nyx has increased base armor

I don't really want to see any of these boosts repeated on other frames and there is a small number of innate boosts they could grant if elemental resistance/immunity is not an option.

[KazeTheSorrow]

Dont tell, a warframe that cast and control, lets see, eletricity taking damage from eletricity... and so on...
Ooh Frost you have nice ICE skills, it would be a shame you get @#$% damage from ice attacks '-------'

THIS is what is broken, COME ON!

[shut]

Dont tell, a warframe that cast and control, lets see, eletricity taking damage from eletricity... and so on...

Ooh Frost you have nice ICE skills, it would be a shame you get @#$% damage from ice attacks '-------'

THIS is what is broken, COME ON!

 

This thread has been dead for a month.

[pooptaco]

This thread has been dead for a month.

 

Don't care.  I only just now found this.

 

Pl0x do this, DE! :D

[MeduSalem]

While I wouldn't make any of the elemental frames completely immune to their respective elemental at least a good amount of percentual resistance wouldn't be too bad at all for frames like Ember, Saryn, Volt and Frost. Maybe Frost even being immune to mission "cold"-debuffs that have your shields halfed.

 

Also the combining of elemental damage types together would be a nice idea... because I'd like to see Saryn and Ember together creating Gas damage. Would make of one nice combo there as would the other combinations.

 

At least it would be fair to do it because they pretty much fall off behind frames that have elemental combinations by default like Zephyr's Magnetic damage which nearly instantly kills Corpus or Mirage's radiation that pretty much onehits even heavy grineer units because of the +75% bonus.

 

 

@Undrakh
Even between just the elemental frames its horribly unbalanced.

Ember would see less damage from:
-Scorches
-Napalms
-Fusion Moas
-Standing in fire.

-Fire Eximus units

-Fire hyena unit
-Lech Kril second stage
-Sargus Ruk
Pretty good, wide range of cases against some of the highest damaging enemies in the game where she is suffering noticeably less damage than everyone else, especially against the very common fire eximus that can pop up nearly anywhere.
And decent resistances against 3 boss enemies.

Saryn would see less damage from:
-Mutalist Osprey
-Toxic Ancients
-Toxic Crawlers

-Venimous eximus units
-Some of Lephantis' attacks

So she would see a lot less health damage from attacks that ignore shields against infested.  Since no other factions use toxic damage she only sees the benefit against one faction out of 3, unlike ember seeing the bonus against 2 factions plus a random map modifier.
Only one boss enemy though would deal less damage.

Frost would see less damage from:
-Ice hyena unit
-Lech Kril first stage
And thats it.
Two boss enemies would deal less damage to him.  No other unit in the game uses ice damage and not even the artic eximus units deal ice damage.
At least he gets benefits against 2 bosses.

 

Volt would see less damage from:
-Arc traps
-Electric crawlers
So he would see a benefit in grineer levels and against a rare infested unit.
And generally you dont see volt used in grineer levels too heavily so...

As you can see, Ember and Saryn would get the most benefits out of it with ember coming out with the biggest benefits, what with being resistant to some of the highest damage dealers in the game.
Meanwhile Frost and Volt see next to no change in most circumstances and the benefit they gained from having a resistance to their own elements is pretty much worthless.

So even if we just had elemental frames and granted them all resistances it wouldn't work out because of how unbalanced it is.

That's the biggest issue with this idea.
 

 

While it seems pretty unbalanced at first but did you even play with Ember lately (past 6-9 months)?

 

She is one of the weakest frames out there currently both in defense and damage capabilities. She has only 740/740 HP/Shields when using maxed out Vitality/Redirection which is either leaving you with NO damage capabilities or if you max out for blindrage&fleeting expertise you can go a little bit further but any hit directly to HP will be pretty much deadly and thereby renders you pretty much unreliable when people have to pick you up all the time when you accidently stumble in a toxin cloud or you get pinballed by ancients, not even talking about Napalms or heavy Slash damage stuff when playing against Grineer.

 

Her damage capabilitities fall off shortly after level 35-40 enemies no matter what, probably even earlier when the enemies are not weak to fire in the first place. It is all because of the fixed amount of damage you are able to deal that doesn't really scale well at all. At some point it just takes forever for World on Fire to kill something and she pretty much has no real crowd control to counter that problem whatsoever. Accelerant may buff the damage up a bit but only allows you to go a little bit further at 1.5-2 times the energy costs (to keep it going long enough to make sense at all) and the stun effects of the skill is completely abysmal if not nonexistent. At least it doesn't keep the enemies stunlocked long enough to inflict enough damage or to prevent them ganging up on you.

 

I've been maining her for a pretty long time now and I still switch over to many other frames if the mission requires a more serious warframe in terms of damage or defense capabilities. Ember only gets me so far on the starchart and it only makes fun playing her within those earlier mentioned level limitations. Everything beyond that is getting crazy, at least if you aren't playing in 4-people squads where you can troll around a bit without having to care too much.

 

 

 

So my experience on that topic may be biased but frames like Nyx are at least imune to damage when casting her Absorb and Banshee (have been maining her last year) stunlocks enemies as long as she has her ult going. Saryn, Frost and Volt have much higher defense capabilities in the first place. At least Saryn an Frost can take much more damage than most other frames because of their high armor values in addition to high health/shield values.

 

I won't even comment on most other frames because they either have even greater damage outputs or even greater crowdcontrol/defense abilities thereby rendering them often a more viable choice altogether.

Edited November 2, 2014 by MeduSalem

[(PSN)V3RM1THRAX]

All frames should have some passive abilities. Elemental frames should be resistant to their element. The other frames could have passive abilities also. Just some ideas but rhino could have the heavy impact mod, mag could have mag lev mod, the list could go on and on. Have like 2 or 3 unlockable abilities. It would make use of some of the "useless" that are out there no one uses

[GreyEnneract]

Why I do love Saryn and this would be pretty sweet.

 

This would destroy Pvp.

 

Hey wait you have something here. We must make it HAPPEN!

No one cares about PvP

[sushibend]

No one cares about PvP

 

How dare you insult such an important aspect of the game...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lol no

Im surprised there's no archwing pvp thread yet

[wolf96781]

Just because you can control fire doesn't mean you can't burn

Just because you can control water doesn't mean you can't drown

Just because you can fly doesn't mean you can't fall to you death

Just because you can control cold doesn't mean you don't freeze

Just because you control electricity doesn't mean you don't fry