Mods/weapons That Are Pointlessly/inexplicably Weak

[ROSING]

So, I have an Aklato (for trolling) and I recently noticed that compared to the Lato it has less damage. How does that make sense? You're just putting two of them together-shouldn't they be at the same damage level?

 

On a similar note, mods such as status chance, primary weapon physical damage mods, electric and frost damage mods for no good reason are at lower values than they should be. What is the point of having Shocking Touch equipped doing only 60% costing 11 points when the equivalent fire damage mod is 90% for the same amount of points AND you have two other electric damage mods doing the SAME amount of damage for LESS points?

 

I just want to ask DE, and this isn't an insult or anything, I'm just really curious: how hard is it to change the number values on some of these mods and weapons? If we compiled a list of the ones that for no reason are just plain bad, could you fix them?

So let's start a list. Feel free to comment below to add in things you think that without question deserve a buff.
 

Weapons:

Aklato

Akbronco Prime

 

 

Mods:

Deep Freeze
Shocking Touch

North Wind

Rupture

Concussion Rounds

Piercing Hit

No Return

Sawtooth Clip

Razor Shot

Rifle Aptitude

Shotgun Savvy

Sure Shot
Stunning Speed

Melee Prowess
Traget Cracker
True Steel

 

Channelling Mods: Energy inefficiency making many unviable?

 

The hunt is on!

Edited September 29, 2014 by ROSING

[-S-O-Yetili]

So, I have an Aklato (for trolling) and I recently noticed that compared to the Lato it has less damage. How does that make sense?

 

The Aklato has less damage, because you have two of them.

[SHIR0B0N]

They're not just bad for the sake of being bad.

 

Some mods behave differently to others even if their purpose is the same. Like for instance the way a bonus is calculated. Some mods calculate the bonus with the base damage, while others calculate the bonus with the total damage (base+buffs from other mods). The ones who calculate from base damage need alot more ranks to be powerful, while the ones who calculate from total damage don't need to be as powerful, although they need to work in combination with other mods to be useful.

 

I think an example for this would be Serration and Piercing Hit. Piercing Hit alone is insufficient. But the more mods that increase the damage are installed, the bigger the bonus Piercing Hit provides.

 

 

That's just how i see stuff. I could be 100% wrong though.

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

I dont know what's wrong with the secondary damage mods.

 

Shocking Touch Is really only good if there is a polarity, as it's two other mods, which are cheaper, have secondary affects.

 

North Wind is cheaper than the base elemental damage mods, but still has it's use.

 

Rupture

Concussion Rounds

Piercing Hit

No Return

Sawtooth Clip

Razor Shot

 

All six of those are great. Many weapons have one primary damage type, and so one of these, in tandem with Serration/Hornet Strike, work wonders. If the weapon isnt an element weapon, I have one of those six on them, maybe more. I have two-three of them on my Brakk at any given time, because of how high the base damage is for each stat.

To say these suck is basically like saying we shouldnt equip Continuity because Narrow Minded exists. It doesnt suck. It serves it's purpose.

 

As for Rifle Aptitude, Shotgun Savvy, and Sure Shot, Melee Prowess, They are throwbacks from Damage 1.0, and need a serious overhaul. Since we have so many mods that amp up our Status already, I really think these should be modded to help with Accuracy, since thats the one thing you cant mod for.

 

Stunning Speed isnt bad. It's not great though.

[PerishedFraud]

The different elemental mods all need to give 90%, except for gate crash. (Since new events will probably give us gate crash-like mods for impact and puncture). Then there is some mods that are just inexplicably weak.

 

Primed chamber and tethra need to come back. And some mods that give a a bonus to something nice (melee prowess, I'm looking at you!) give such a small bonus that it isn't worth using them.

[darthdart]

If you give someone a Boltor Prime, Marelock, and Dual Ichors immediately, they will get bored.

 

There will always be options, and weapons to level to work up til you can get better ones.

 

If there were no progression, people wouldn't stay as long as they do. Period.

 

This post is the thread ender because it answers the point of the thread. There is no discussion to be had after this post whatsoever because what I said is the truth and not an "opinion."

 

/thread

[Alphafox]

If you give someone a Boltor Prime, Marelock, and Dual Ichors immediately, they will get bored.

 

There will always be options, and weapons to level to work up til you can get better ones.

 

If there were no progression, people wouldn't stay as long as they do. Period.

 

This post is the thread ender because it answers the point of the thread. There is no discussion to be had after this post whatsoever because what I said is the truth and not an "opinion."

 

/thread

I don't see how anything you said is even related to the subject of the thread. What the OP said is a fact. 50% of the mods value are just flat out messed up to the point the are useless. I don't see how you can call that progression. The OP didn't even talk about weapons.

 

I don't know what illicit substance you took but you might want to sell that, you could make some money with it.

I dont know what's wrong with the secondary damage mods.

 

Shocking Touch Is really only good if there is a polarity, as it's two other mods, which are cheaper, have secondary affects.

 

North Wind is cheaper than the base elemental damage mods, but still has it's use.

 

Rupture

Concussion Rounds

Piercing Hit

No Return

Sawtooth Clip

Razor Shot

 

All six of those are great. Many weapons have one primary damage type, and so one of these, in tandem with Serration/Hornet Strike, work wonders. If the weapon isnt an element weapon, I have one of those six on them, maybe more. I have two-three of them on my Brakk at any given time, because of how high the base damage is for each stat.

To say these suck is basically like saying we shouldnt equip Continuity because Narrow Minded exists. It doesnt suck. It serves it's purpose.

 

As for Rifle Aptitude, Shotgun Savvy, and Sure Shot, Melee Prowess, They are throwbacks from Damage 1.0, and need a serious overhaul. Since we have so many mods that amp up our Status already, I really think these should be modded to help with Accuracy, since thats the one thing you cant mod for.

 

Stunning Speed isnt bad. It's not great though.

Continuity is a mod that give you a direct upgrade.

Narrow Minded is a mod that give you a upgrade with a debuff to another aspect. It's not the same situation at all. All the status effect mods (+Slash,+Impact,+Puncture) are just flat out useless in 100% of the cases. Those mods need to be atleast 100% to have a valuable input.

Stunning speed could be used for the reload speed, but the status chance is just flat out bad. 10% increase is so small that you would not make the difference if the mod wasn't there.

[PerishedFraud]

He just posted in the wrong thread. Continuity and mods like it are fine, I mean, buffing them to something like 50% won't hurt but is not needed.

 

How about maxed constitution giving twenty-something increased duration at max rank and the aforementioned melee prowess.

 

DONT FORGET MELEE CRITICALS! a mod that gives you +60% crit? Wow. Amazing. Like the fact that we dont have any weapons designed around crits isnt enough.

[yarash2110]

Melee crit chance mod... Only 60% at max rank! Is that a joke?

Even crit weps with 25% at base won't pass 50%

[Liminal]

I don't understand the Aklato damage. Would it be overpowered if it had the single Lato damage? No. I'm no professional, but I think it's a decent and cautious way to approach balance ... asking "would it be broken if?".

 

And yes, I agree many of those mods are too weak. I'm not so sure about the physical damage ones for pistols though, they seem respectable.

[ThunderZsolt]

If you give someone a Boltor Prime, Marelock, and Dual Ichors immediately, they will get bored.

 

There will always be options, and weapons to level to work up til you can get better ones.

 

If there were no progression, people wouldn't stay as long as they do. Period.

 

This post is the thread ender because it answers the point of the thread. There is no discussion to be had after this post whatsoever because what I said is the truth and not an "opinion."

 

/thread

 

your point is valid about the weapons, but not the mods. if they would buff some that are mentioned in the starter post, you would see them in more and more builds, adding variety and more customization to the game - status chance mods for example are simply not viable.

 

 

to the OP:

lots of corrupted mods are not worth using (warframe mods are fine, i'm talking about weapon mods)

tell me, how often do you see a corrupted mod on any weapon except heavy caliber and it's equivalent mods? i only use critical delay on the latron wraith, and that's it

 

so, you can add to the list:

vile precision

tainted mag

burdened bagazine

tainted shell

hollow point (this is a joke, only 45% damage increase with 100% crit chance, and no secondary can reach that - i like the idea, though)

tainted clip

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

Perhaps I should have made a better example: Continuity would be seen as bad because Constitution exists. One bonus, instead of two.

 

I feel very differently. With a single one of those mods, it will increase the damage of a weapon significantly. Since most weapons have one primary stat, you only need one of the three damage type mods.

 

On the Attica, Piercing Hit produces a difference of 142 damage.

 

On Paris Prime, Piercing Hit produces a difference of 245 damage.

 

On the Brakk, Concussion Rounds produces a difference of 300 Damage.

 

No return, on Dual Cestras, produces almost as much of a difference as Lethal Torrent and Barrel Diffusion working together.

 

On Despair, No Return produces a difference of 236 damage.

 

On the Lex Prime, No Return produces a damage increase of 288.

 

On the Pyrana, Razor shot increases damage by 452.8.

 

On the Akbronco Prime, Concussion Rounds increases the damage by 339.

[Alphafox]

Perhaps I should have made a better example: Continuity would be seen as bad because Constitution exists. One bonus, instead of two.

 

I feel very differently. With a single one of those mods, it will increase the damage of a weapon significantly. Since most weapons have one primary stat, you only need one of the three damage type mods.

 

On the Attica, Piercing Hit produces a difference of 142 damage.

 

On Paris Prime, Piercing Hit produces a difference of 245 damage.

 

On the Brakk, Concussion Rounds produces a difference of 300 Damage.

 

No return, on Dual Cestras, produces almost as much of a difference as Lethal Torrent and Barrel Diffusion working together.

 

On Despair, No Return produces a difference of 236 damage.

 

On the Lex Prime, No Return produces a damage increase of 288.

 

On the Pyrana, Razor shot increases damage by 452.8.

 

On the Akbronco Prime, Concussion Rounds increases the damage by 339.

And those mods can easily be remplaced by any other damage mods. Concussion Rounds give a bonus that is so small that pretty much any other damage mod overshadow it.

[Semshol]

Those mods are the way they are, because no sensible pro would even touch them LOL

[ROSING]

And those mods can easily be remplaced by any other damage mods. Concussion Rounds give a bonus that is so small that pretty much any other damage mod overshadow it.

 

This is what I'm getting at.

 

To Clarify:

The reason why I think these mods aren't as good is because compared to the alternatives (ex. would you put in max Piercing hit (+30% cost 9) or instead put in a rank 3 Hellfire (+60% cost 9)?) they aren't worth equipping.

The fact of the matter is that for some builds you will have to sacrifice damage for the desired damage type, and assuming someone wants to max out their damage this limits the choices they have for their builds. I wouldn't have a puncture-focused primary because I could probably get more damage with a corrosive focused primary, etc. In a similar way, I wouldn't want a crit-based melee build (due to only 60% crit chance) over a proc-based melee build because the procs actually cost less and for what they're worth often boost more.

Adding Pistol Crit damage (Target Cracker),

Melee crit chance (True Steel)

 

 

your point is valid about the weapons, but not the mods. if they would buff some that are mentioned in the starter post, you would see them in more and more builds, adding variety and more customization to the game - status chance mods for example are simply not viable.

 

 

to the OP:

lots of corrupted mods are not worth using (warframe mods are fine, i'm talking about weapon mods)

tell me, how often do you see a corrupted mod on any weapon except heavy caliber and it's equivalent mods? i only use critical delay on the latron wraith, and that's it

 

so, you can add to the list:

vile precision

tainted mag

burdened bagazine

tainted shell

hollow point (this is a joke, only 45% damage increase with 100% crit chance, and no secondary can reach that - i like the idea, though)

tainted clip

 

You make a good point that they just aren't worth equipping over other mods (like damage mods) but I feel that may be an issue with weapon utility mods (reload speed, etc) in general, because a lot of people max out for damage. If you could elaborate more on how they should be buffed, then I'll add them in.

Edited September 29, 2014 by ROSING

[w00tm0ng3r]

All the physical damage mods are nearly useless. +30% of a fraction of my base damage woohoo!

 

Point blank and pressure point are barely half as good as serration and less than half as good as hornet strike. In addition melee crit is a joke and attack speed is terrible without berserker which relies on the worst crit mods in the game... Also most of the channeling mods are pretty questionable. Along with only being active while channeling and increasing your channeling cost, they also tend to be worse versions of the regular mods. Corrupted mods work because they give you a superior upside combined with a downside. This is two downsides and an inferior upside.

 

I'm starting to feel like intensity needs to be a 10 rank mod.

[ROSING]

All the physical damage mods are nearly useless. +30% of a fraction of my base damage woohoo!

 

Point blank and pressure point are barely half as good as serration and less than half as good as hornet strike. In addition melee crit is a joke and attack speed is terrible without berserker which relies on the worst crit mods in the game... Also most of the channeling mods are pretty questionable. Along with only being active while channeling and increasing your channeling cost, they also tend to be worse versions of the regular mods. Corrupted mods work because they give you a superior upside combined with a downside. This is two downsides and an inferior upside.

 

I'm starting to feel like intensity needs to be a 10 rank mod.

 

Good point about berserker. Channeling mods might need a bit of toning down for the cost increase, but I'll wait for more feedback about those. Thoughts guys?

Another good point with pressure point. Should it be a ranked 10 mod like the damage mods on the other weapon types or is it fine as is?

 

The thing with intensify is that it doesn't have an alternative to it for warframe slots (apart from blind rage). In this way, they might have kept it at 30% because higher damage values might start to mess with certain abilities or make them to OP. I don't know enough to make a call.

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

And those mods can easily be remplaced by any other damage mods. Concussion Rounds give a bonus that is so small that pretty much any other damage mod overshadow it.

 

I seriously disagree, especially if you are modding specifically for those damage types. Considering they also have serration, amping up the individuals would becrazy.

 

EDIT: I think the problem we may be having is some folks dont read up on damage 2.0. When you see the massive boost you get on top of those mods, then you will notice why they are great.

 

If I take a Pyrana against Infestation, I get a bonus of 25% against a lot of enemies. With that in mind, I could go in without Razor shot and get 967-1161 slash damage, or go in with Razor shot and get 1505.25-1806 slash damage.

 

Is a damage difference of 548-645 not siginificant to anybody?

Edited September 29, 2014 by (PS4)Fenrushak

[ROSING]

I seriously disagree, especially if you are modding specifically for those damage types. Considering they also have serration, amping up the individuals would becrazy.

 

But serration also affects elemental damage as well. And the melee physical damage mods are already at 90%. 

 

EDIT: Again, it's not in how much damage you are doing, it's how much damage you have compared to your alternatives. Sure Razor Shot has a 25% edge on infested but Heated Charge also gives that same edge and gives 90% damage over razor shots 60% damage. And that disparity is even wider when you get to the rifle mods.

Edited September 29, 2014 by ROSING

[Lunarsage]

The Aklato has less damage, because you have two of them.

So if I shoot you while holding two pistols, it will hurt less if I shoot you while only holding one?

[-S-O-Yetili]

So if I shoot you while holding two pistols, it will hurt less if I shoot you while only holding one?

 

Two pistols = more firerate.

DE nerfed the dmg to balance it.

Edited September 29, 2014 by -S-O-Yetili

[LordOfScrugging]

when i saw the title i thought it would be discussing mods like maglev.......things that are legitimately pointless

[ThunderZsolt]

You make a good point that they just aren't worth equipping over other mods (like damage mods) but I feel that may be an issue with weapon utility mods (reload speed, etc) in general, because a lot of people max out for damage. If you could elaborate more on how they should be buffed, then I'll add them in.

 

that is true. i have no solution for most of those mods either. However, critical delay and hollow point could be easily fixed only by changing the numbers - i think they should give at least more bonus than the regular version, just like the corrupted warframe mods.

 

crit. delay: +48% crit chance, -36% firerate, 9 mod points

point strike: +150% crit chance, 9 mod points

why has crit delay less bonus than point strike? i know that having a second +150% crit mod would buff the amprex/synapse/dread to 200% crit chance, but then they could increase the firerate penalty. Also, it could make crit builds on weapons with about 20% crit chance viable, if they have a good multiplier, adding more variety in the builds

 

 

hollow point: +60% crit damage, -15% damage, 9 mod points

target cracker: +60% crit damage, 9 mod points

both need to be buffed, vital sense has 120% bonus, but hollow point sucks even compared to target cracker. i don't know how it would break the balance of secondaries, since hornet strike/barrel diffusion are better than serration/split chamber, though

[ROSING]

Two pistols = more firerate.

DE nerfed the dmg to balance it.

 

The traditional balance for dual pistols is a reduction in accuracy for an increase in fire rate. That's how it is on every other dual pistol.

And if that isn't how it is for another dual pistol, then we'll add those to the list too.

[Khawz]

 

 

lol dead eye best mod

Edited September 29, 2014 by Khawz