Infested... Now Becoming The Bane Of Our Existence (De Plz)

[_Fracture8]

Well, I guess all of you know where this is heading. This is of course referring to what I personally think are the most bullsh*t, rage-inducing, monitoring smashing changes that have come to the infested. I have to stress how irritating this faction has become as of late. They're not fun and their game mechanics are flawed. I shouldn't be screaming bloody murder at the enemy for using unfair tactics, I should be screaming bloody murder AT MYSELF for not reacting fast enough or taking priority over the Ancients instead of focusing on the fodder Chargers

 

So here's a timeline of my thought process over the evolution of the infested spanning the last few months.

 

Ancient Eximus (Venomous variant): Wow thats rather irritating. An enemy that moves at a snails pace that deals damage in a 20m radius with no warning, gives you a very damaging and common toxin proc. Oh also you can't melee them because of the poison cloud surrounding it. Hmm thats way too op I'm sure DE will fix that in time.

Issues:

- Defence missions aren't a test of protecting the pod, it has become more "how long can I survive in toxic farts before I pass out and let the pod get swarmed?"

- The effect travels through walls, you may not see the enemy slowly chipping away at your health but you knows its there

 

Ancient buff: Ok Ancients have new abilities, that Healers annoying but I can man up and take the extra difficulty no problem. Hey wait a minute I thought the playerbase didn't like attacks that ignore shields and hit you straight in the HP/Energy. Oh well we asked for more difficulty and this is what we got, that'll teach us for speaking out. I mean it can't get any worse right? Wait GRAPPLES?! FROM THAT DISTANCE?! Oh so you can't dodge the follow up attack, great just great.

Issues:

- Ancient Healers make everything around it near invulnerable with their Damage Reduction (DR) in late game.

- Multiple Healers DR stack and can chain heal everything around them

- Attacks from Disruptors/Toxics ignore shields (which last time I checked was a negative idea around the forums)

- Grapples often happen with little to no warning

- Runner that explode on death can bypass shields and damage HP/Energy if they get too close (And it's impossible for them NOT to be close to you unless you use stupid amounts of energy to keep them at bay or are perched up high in which any Ancient can just drag you down anyway)

- Melee becomes suicide in a crowd of anything over 2 ancients and a few chargers

 

Mutalist Osprey: Crap we can hardly go anywhere since this thing farts in such a massive and damaging radius. Melee's become almost completely unviable now because I can't hit the damn things. And those healers don't help either. Well I suppose this is a good thing, the infested did need a little more difficulty right? Oh more lethal toxin procs. Perfect.

Issues:

- Melee becomes even less viable due to huge space restrictions

- Hard to hit with melee, again it's less viable

- Health becomes even harder to hang on to

 

Toxic Ancient Buff: Hmm another Toxic Ancient, oh well no biggy its not like I'm about to be one shotted or anythi-*Ancient lets out a massive fart with yet another lethal toxin proc to follow*-WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT. Oh so it one shots pretty much everything? Oh. That's cool... Just *Deep sigh of frustration* Great... Just what we wanted, thanks DE.

Issues:

- Farts can take half your HP/One shot. These are not fun. These are not good design.

- Fart radius is MASSIVE (for a fart).

- Fart's happen whether you stop the Ancient or not. Using knockdowns or killing it during its tiny 0.5 seconds charge time doesn't work. You will die anyway

 

Toxic Crawler fix: Hmm I never really understood why the toxic crawlers always had the description "upon death releases toxic cloud". Hey I remember that being taken out because the community said it was annoying, much like the old toxic ancient clouds. Oh. They've put it back in again? It's not a 2m radius like last time? Then how large is it? OSPREY CLOUD SIZE?! WHY?!

Issues:

- Crawlers are impossible to spot in a crowd

- Melee becomes even LESS VIABLE unless you are happy with losing 100HP per Toxic Crawler killed

- The range of the cloud is huge

 

The upcoming enemies: Oh cool another livestream. New enemies? Oh wow that looks sick! Wait. So even more toxic damage? Pus damage? Toxic pools of bile? Nanotechnology buffs for the infested and debuffs for us? And cute little nibblets that slow us down? (presumably to stop us from leaving the effect of neverending amounts of toxic clouds and vomit that will soon cover half the map). I... I need a moment... FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-cut-

Issues:

- Our movement is restricted enough as it is without having to worry about bile pools and nibblets knawing at our ankles. Where are we supposed to go if 50% of the map is covered in fart clouds, bile, and nibblets?

- Melee 2.0 for infested would become near completely redundant for anyone who isn't Valkyr, Loki or Trinity. (And a huge applause to those who want to try it out, I'll see you on the floor beside me with Nikana in hand)

 

TL;DR - Ok so on a serious note I'm sure you get the picture. While I am all for the infested getting a buff, I feel that DE you may gave gone just a tad overboard as of now. And with the latest enemies coming our way, well. I don't really know what to say, thats insane. Now that I've had a chance to look back on those changes I realise that the Ancient Buff was well needed, and the Ospreys are a cool addition and were well needed (albeit annoyng as f*ck). However in my eyes you will cross the line with these upcoming additions. Like I said, when I fail I should be mad at myself and not at the game for using dirty tactics.

 

Bullet point list of fixes that may help:

- Put a charge time of 3 seconds on the Toxic Crawlers cloud spawning after death, also give them distinct audio AND visual warnings before release (maybe a glowing effect or something?)

- Put a charge time of 3 seconds on the Toxic Ancients fart attack, also give them distinct audio AND visual warnings before release

- Osprey charge time increased to 2 seconds, give them the same visual effect as the Toxic Crawler before charging

- Ancient Healers DR does not stack

- Give Venomous Eximi either a range nerf on the poison effect or a complete overhaul on how the toxic aura is applied to players (on sight perhaps?)

- Ancient Grapples are given a 2 second charge time before release along with distinct audio AND visual warnings. Range nerf may need to be applied as well.

 

IMPORTANT EDIT: I shouldn't have to, but I may need to point out that I'm using sarcastic humor and exaggerations in this post. Some people don't seem to understand the concept of a joke or the fact that I'm largely provoking the idea of the infested being "OP". They're not OP, They need a buff, but there are still some changes that need to be made because of the horrible artificial difficulty DE is implementing. One shot farts are not ok. Being grappled with little to no warning is not ok. Sneakily placing a suicidal toxic crawler in a mob of infested is not ok. And this needs to be fixed before it becomes a serious problem.

Edited October 4, 2014 by KilelrDrone492

[CY13ERPUNK]

good god man

 

the infested have been the faceroll faction ever since the toxic/charger/runner nerfs back pre U-10

 

they are just now beginning to have a hint of difficultly and of course the QQ-brigade hits the forums in full force asking for the indisputedly weakest faction to once again get nerfed into carebear-status

 

srsly?

 

come on dude, plz no

 

ill give u that more telegraphing of actions/attacks would not be a bad thing, and me personally, i think the infested ospreys make little sense (why dont they have a stinger/acrid-type weapon firing from that spiky end? why dont they just leave a lingering cloud in the path they travel... slowly? why does their artistic design/model reflect nothing about how they function ingame?)

 

but everything else? nah man, leave the infested dangerous

 

Warframe needs MORE dangerous enemies, not less

 

toxic dmg that bad? use a toxic resist mod (yes these need buffs ill give u that), melee = suicide? use life strike (yes channeling is expensive energy-wise and a lame mechanic, i want melee 3.0, bring back charge attacks as well as combos and channeling)

 

KEEP THE INFESTED DANGEROUS 2014!!!

Edited October 1, 2014 by CY13ERPUNK

[Tveoh]

Sorry pal ole chum but font lump me in with everyone. I'm not part of your "our" I've never had an issue with infested save when they start to get to lvl 60+. Then the buffs and aura they have get to be annoying. And for the record I use melee a lot even against infested. The toxics are annoying but I'll still rush up and melee the guy to death. And if I fall, oh well.

[Monolake]

Yeah lvl30 toxic one-shots average frame even with max Vitality (forgot the exact damage, something like 700) 

Ospreys are perfectly dodgeable. Unlike grapples that happen almost instantly.

 

Infested still cant do anything if you get on a high enough ground, resulting in baby-easy defence missions.  Though they have no problem grappling you if they are 1 floor above.

 

The worst unfair mechanics though is the constant energy drain from leacher units auras, that also happen to be 'tanks' and spawn in absurd numbers (easily 5 per wave in odd, worst I had was 8 per wave) so its impossible to quickly dispatch them, and ofcourse you cant hide from aura (and cant run in defence either). You are guaranteed to be stripped off your energy at some point. 

Edited October 1, 2014 by Monolake

[Sasquatchias]

While I disagree with the Infested being hard right now, I will admit I don't particularly like the buffs they are getting now.

 

With every fix to the Infested it feels they've kinda run out of ideas and put in Toxin effects, which are not fun. They certainly make things more challenging, but not in a good way.

[_Fracture8]

good god man

 

the infested have been the faceroll faction ever since the toxic/charger/runner nerfs back pre U-10

 

they are just now beginning to have a hint of difficultly and of course the QQ-brigade hits the forums in full force asking for the indisputedly weakest faction to once again get nerfed into carebear-status

 

srsly?

 

come on dude, plz no

 

ill give u that more telegraphing of actions/attacks would not be a bad thing, and me personally, i think the infested ospreys make little sense (why dont they have a stinger/acrid-type weapon firing from that spiky end? why dont they just leave a lingering cloud in the path they travel... slowly? why does their artistic design/model reflect nothing about how they function ingame?)

 

but everything else? nah man, leave the infested dangerous

 

Warframe needs MORE dangerous enemies, not less

 

toxic dmg that bad? use a toxic resist mod (yes these need buffs ill give u that), melee = suicide? use life strike (yes channeling is expensive energy-wise and a lame mechanic, i want melee 3.0, bring back charge attacks as well as combos and channeling)

 

KEEP THE INFESTED DANGEROUS 2014!!!

 

Haha fair enough, like I said I do believe the infested deserved a buff. And imo they are fine where they are. It's the new content that has me worried more than anything. (Should probably add /joke to thought processes lol)

 

#KeepTheInfestedDangerousButNotRageInducing

Edited October 1, 2014 by KilelrDrone492

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I suppose this is why I don't find players running Pluto Dark Sector Hieracon ...

I'm fine with the buffs...

Now if they would have regular 'Disruptor' type enemies in the void to strip shield and energy as regularly as the infested...

I'm just glad they didn't decide to give Ancient Eximus AoE Slash Procs...

Edited October 1, 2014 by (PS4)MrNishi

[Cleesus]

Yes the infested are crazy right now, thank you for making this post, Praise Rang!

[Azawarau]

Theyrer still easy

 

I literally avoid fighting them

 

The faction is so poor that i cant stand to go against it

[TrinityPrime]

Infested Ancient Healers are also 100% immune to damage from Trinity Link.  This annoys me to no end.

Edited October 1, 2014 by KnotOfMetal

[Lakitel]

 My main gripe with the infested is the massive quantity they swarm at. I mean, you don't even care what your shooting at with them. I just shoot randomly in their direction and only stop if the clip is empty or the numbers stop coming :P

[Eric1738]

i think infested is ok, since DE reduced the number of ancients on the field already. but some of the changes like toxic cloud is totally annoying. at least makes them not emit toxic cloud if killed by melee, like volatile runner? seriously i dont understand why DE keeps discouraging melee in infested missions, first it's infested drones, now it's huge toxic cloud under your feet.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Eric1738

[MechaTails]

Everyone please post your loadout when you post in topics like these. Warframe, weapons, forma, and what levels youre fighting against. Any one of those variables can dramatically alter the experience, creating the polarized views.

My solo melee Banshee gets wrecked unless i can ohko or permastun the minions with Lecta, theyre the number one threat. They jackhammer my life away in an instant, its not fun, especially not when i've already invested 30 minutes in a mission. Kronen has been great at chopping them down with constant slide attacks and procs.

Ancients and eximus are fun to fight because they can take a beating, that lets me perform combos and have an entertaining fight.

If I use all guns, no sweat, bring on the level 60s, i'll shoot from far away and run screaming when they see me lol.

[IceDragonofAmber]

Just wait when/if they add the Juggernaut infested. Toxic clouds are going to be the least of your worries.

[Brimir]

The only thing I'll agree with is that Ancient auras do get a bit redonkulous at times.

 

For example, I've always been an advocate of bringing back the "death fart" of Toxic Crawlers!

[BloodSage09]

the infested have just become rather annoying to fight at the moment. before it used to be a pleasure getting away from the grineer and corpus and fighting the infested , it was a change of pace, but now its just tiresome

[Cannamancer]

Haven't found a challenge yet in any game. Yawn.

[Azawarau]

Infested Ancient Healers are also 100% immune to damage from Trinity Link.  This annoys me to no end.

So you cant abuse self shooting?

 

Other than that link doesnt do very much damage at all in higher levels

[Tsoe]

i this a troll tread?

 

infested are still cute...

[Lynxh]

Everyone please post your loadout when you post in topics like these. Warframe, weapons, forma, and what levels youre fighting against. Any one of those variables can dramatically alter the experience, creating the polarized views.

My solo melee Banshee gets wrecked unless i can ohko or permastun the minions with Lecta, theyre the number one threat. They jackhammer my life away in an instant, its not fun, especially not when i've already invested 30 minutes in a mission. Kronen has been great at chopping them down with constant slide attacks and procs.

Ancients and eximus are fun to fight because they can take a beating, that lets me perform combos and have an entertaining fight.

If I use all guns, no sweat, bring on the level 60s, i'll shoot from far away and run screaming when they see me lol.

 

Pretty much this, I never know from which position people are basing their discontent from. For instance, complaining about infested being broken at level 60 seems kinda pointless, since that's not a point they are suppose to be balanced at anyway. Same way saying you have a hard time while using unranked weapons is not a good base.

 

That aside, I'm kinda missing wasting the infested in mass XD. But I'm also okay with actually having to put in effort to stay alive. However the huge aura's from exi in general have to much range, add to that the ancients aura's and their tendency to show up in massive numbers. It can get out of hand pretty fast with so many factors buffing/debuffing each other. But the only time that really becomes an issue (imo) is when playing endless mission types, and like I said earlier, that really isn't suited as a fair place to base argumants/enemy changes from.

[trieuazn0]

Zephyr with random mods (1290 HP and shield, no tornado) 

fancy gun used,fancy side arm used, fancy melee Used

 

as much as i miss face rolling the old infested by shooting and walking back, i think the grappling hook is a good idear for the ancients.

everything about them Pre buff Infested was abit too easy to deal with, even while using a Mk-1 braton (unless you played during the Dark Warframe days)

 

the only problem ive seen in high levels where there are infested (void and such) is players that only focus on Redirection Builds, and the toxic just hits them really hard, or during defence, frost players would recast their snow globes while the Toxic infested are inside them.

 

What i do to fight them?

-mixx between Vitality and Redirection (Vigor for the Rofls)

-take them out on sight if you are using the Dread/ Paris Prime/ Latron Prime/vandal

- if you start losing Health from them, just spamm the hell out of those Medium HP restore things 

[ThePredicament]

There are only two things wrong with Infested.

1) The drop rate for life support packs need to be upped. Even teams with Nekros would never last long in a survival game.

 

2) Ancients need is to replace the lazy programmed scorpion grappling hook with something more "organic".

 

Aside from those, they fill in the poisonous zombie zerg rush role quite well.

[Marthrym]

The Infested are a great example of irony.

They're not all that challenging, honestly. But they can be UNFAIR and use CHEAP, PUNISHING mechanics that should never have been implemented in the first place, or should have been balanced by giving the players REAL tools to counter them other than slapping on bandaid mods or running around like headless chickens (maybe a more elaborate parkour would help?) hoping to "dodge" enough poison/hooks to survive more than 3 seconds. A game where half the enemy's attacks have no real counter under player control (other than running away or pressing 4) has serious design flaws.

 

There are really difficult games out there, but a lot of them are also awesome because they give the players tools to avoid or counter this difficulty with EXPERIENCE, they make the players feel like they really learn, get better and accomplish great things.

The Infested, no Warframe as a whole, is not among them unfortunately. Maybe it will get there with some more time and tweaks, but right now, it mostly uses cheap and dirty tricks to make us believe this game is hard.

And what makes me really sad is that so many players actually fall for that, and really believe Warframe is actually "challenging". Wake up people, for Lotus' sake.^^'

 

Another irony is that we still come back for more despite all that. I think because we see the huge potential behind the flaws, and also Warframe has that atmosphere, that something we get addicted to.^^

Also (before people who disagree go ballistic on this post) that's just MY opinion, nothing more, it's only based on MY personal experience, it's not "THE TRUTH!" or "FACTS!", just one opinion. Just saying,^^

[TrinityPrime]

So you cant abuse self shooting?

 

Other than that link doesnt do very much damage at all in higher levels

 

Abuse? Please, it's a legit build.

 

Ancient's still bugged, they should fix it.

Edited October 1, 2014 by KnotOfMetal

[HackShield]

its simple infested was meaned to be the brainless animal overhaulin the enemy, thats you, they are toxic they are fast and they have mutatet grable tantacles cause it isnt any more the easy run faction dont means they become weird.