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Why Wf Needs To Look At Player Retention


LeMoog
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I have been playing for a while now and the one thing that really limits the life of this game is the simple fact that players have not connected to WF as they have for games like tf2,CSS,WOW etc.

 

There is a fundemental lack in WF that means all the work DE are putting into the game is devalued and that lack is in the game not catering to groups of friends so they keep playing and people being forced to make ingame friends to be able to play effectively.

 

Games that have survived have typically done so because the players have friends they play the game with but in WF this side is sadly neglected. Yes there is ingame chat and voice but those alone are not enough to make up what WF is lacking i.e. commandrie or team spirit the grouping into them and us. 

 

Without something to bind the teams together then there is nothing to keep gamers playing warframe, everyone knows that player attrition is rife as people who are disconnected from their group get bored of playing and move on.

 

I can only conclude the DE think there will be new players forever but gaming history shows that eventually this will dry up for the very simple reason that competing games do understand that involving players during play is necessary for growth.

 

So to get people involved what does the community think WF needs to change into something that groups will keep playing together rather than getting bored and moving on?

 

To get the ball rolling how about the ability to merge clans and thier dojos so the empty ones can become something to belong to again? or maybe a weekly platinum payout to the clan members based upon active members in that clan or both so all the loners can be pulled together into a strong base for each clan to encourage involvement. yes this would benefit the larger existing clans disproportionally but it would also pave the way to interesting clan wars if plat was a prize.

 

I want this game to keep growing and without something changing I see all our investments in time and money disappearing

Edited by LeMoog
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I have been playing for a while now and the one thing that really limits the life of this game is the simple fact that players have not connected to WF as they have for games like tf2,CSS,WOW etc.

 

There is a fundemental lack in WF that means all the work DE are putting into the game is devalued and that lack is in the game not catering to groups of friends so they keep playing and people being forced to make ingame friends to be able to play effectively.

 

Games that have survived have typically done so because the players have friends they play the game with but in WF this side is sadly neglected. Yes there is ingame chat and voice but those alone are not enough to make up what WF is lacking i.e. commandrie or team spirit the grouping into them and us. 

 

Without something to bind the teams together then there is nothing to keep gamers playing warframe, everyone knows that player attrition is rife as people who are disconnected from their group get bored of playing and move on.

1) on equal standing comparison please.

2) what's the different? playing with friends and FORCED to make friends to play with... both of them are 'firneds' you know or likely you think you know.

3) That's why you MAKE friends in-game. team spirits? what goal is there for it?

4) Grind-Wall + new stuff, getting bored of the repetitive stuff is considered to be burned-out. come back 3 to 4 updates later.

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I think allot of the retention problems are also to do with things like trying to force players to purchase platinum by making certain components or parts obnoxiously difficult to obtain (Argon crystals or Hydroid parts anyone?) or crap like the Kubrows defrost time.

 

Coupled with the fact after a while you don't really have much to do other than collect more stuff.

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Closest thing to teamwork I've had in this game for a while was Cryotic Front high score runs. We really had to work as a team after 10k points and I loved it. 

 

Basically that's it, to make someone use teamwork in this game you have to make it so hard you can't do it alone.

 

Interested to see what DE will do to encourage teamwork in the future.

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1) on equal standing comparison please.

2) what's the different? playing with friends and FORCED to make friends to play with... both of them are 'firneds' you know or likely you think you know.

3) That's why you MAKE friends in-game. team spirits? what goal is there for it?

4) Grind-Wall + new stuff, getting bored of the repetitive stuff is considered to be burned-out. come back 3 to 4 updates later.

 

My experience is that the friends you bring with you that don't enjoy grinding move on, in games like tf2 I made lots of contacts because I was a useful team member. Team spirit is where you are willing to come online to help your team win, you feel involved in impoving your group's performance

 

the coming back 3/4 updates later just to grab the latest content and then disappearing again just makes it difficult to design the infrastructure to handle the player load. Having a fairly constant number of players is generally better than chaotic overloads because your player base doubles without warning.

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"hey bro wanna go out to hunt nyx parts?"

"nah bro i've bought prime access"

"k."

 yes, the game items should not be the end goal of playing. Having the frames/weapons/items should be only the start of the journey

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i hate getting shoehorned into teamplay, it will slow down the pace that warframe mission has. you cant blame the game to much for your friends not liking it.

 

It wasnt only my friends and no it wasn't that they didnt like the game, they just go bored of doing the same things. Now compare with for example tf2 MvM it is the same thing everytime but many keep playing for pleasure.

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People suffer here the same as they do in all mission based games .... repetition syndrome.

 

I keep saying it and now I sound like a stuck record but there is nowhere near enough mission variety. Every single planet is just a higher level repeat of the last and if you are really lucky you see a new tile set.

 

Every time you log in you will run the same missions over and over and over. Some people don't mind that but others will move on. It doesn't take much to get burnt out when constantly repeating yourself.

 

Even going for those T4 survivals ... you are still doing the same mission you've done since Mercury. As I, and some others, have said ... once you've finished Mercury, you've seen everything this game has to offer on the mission side of things.

 

No only that but you have some planets, the higher level ones, that are barely used. There are people that are struggling to find groups to finish them and just giving up. The sad part is the higher level planets offer nothing different than the lower ones except higher level mobs.

 

This game, regardless of what it does, is never going to retain an incredibly massive player base. People will always get bored or find a new game and move on. It happens with every game, even those with millions of players like MMO's or things like Battlefield. Take Titanfall, it was the next big thing, now it's got a really small playerbase compared to what it started with. Destiny will go the same way.

 

Long story short, there is no sure fire way to keep people around. There is always something shiny in the distance to take them away. Dragon Age Inquisition is just around the corner offering co-op multiplayer that people will flock to, it worked for ME3. Withcer 3 is out in February that a few of us are waiting for. Eternal Crusade is out next yer, a Warhammer 40k mass MMO shooter (and one i'm personally waiting for).

 

The only thing a game can do is keep it's core players happy and hope it's enough to bring new people in. If things change too much then there is a chance of upsetting those core players and having them move along which would hurt the game (i'm not one of those for the record, i'm as fickle as everyone else, sooner or later i'll be gone ... not that anyone cares *sniff*).

 

There is no guaranteed survival in this industry. We've all seen developers and games we love come and go. Warframe will not last forever. The only thing you can hope for is a good long run and to enjoy what you are doing.

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I think Warframe is a very "specific" game.

Someone plays and get bored really soon, others (like me) would enjoy it forever.

Try to find new friends here in the forum, recruit channel is perfect for the purpose too.

no the point I am making is that at the moment I do not need to make friends to be able to play. Everything is availible to a solo player but that is very much a part fo the problem. The game needs to reward coordinated team play and promote groups forming, the clan system at the moment does little to maintain the groups and once people have left then only by destroying your dojo can you join a new group of players

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i hate getting shoehorned into teamplay, it will slow down the pace that warframe mission has. you cant blame the game to much for your friends not liking it.

Not shoehorned per se but a sort of style where teamwork makes it easier, yeah you can go your own way and all without being punished but to be rewarded for teamplay is the right method of doing it.

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People suffer here the same as they do in all mission based games .... repetition syndrome.

 

I keep saying it and now I sound like a stuck record but there is nowhere near enough mission variety. Every single planet is just a higher level repeat of the last and if you are really lucky you see a new tile set.

 

Every time you log in you will run the same missions over and over and over. Some people don't mind that but others will move on. It doesn't take much to get burnt out when constantly repeating yourself.

 

Even going for those T4 survivals ... you are still doing the same mission you've done since Mercury. As I, and some others, have said ... once you've finished Mercury, you've seen everything this game has to offer on the mission side of things.

 

No only that but you have some planets, the higher level ones, that are barely used. There are people that are struggling to find groups to finish them and just giving up. The sad part is the higher level planets offer nothing different than the lower ones except higher level mobs.

 

This game, regardless of what it does, is never going to retain an incredibly massive player base. People will always get bored or find a new game and move on. It happens with every game, even those with millions of players like MMO's or things like Battlefield. Take Titanfall, it was the next big thing, now it's got a really small playerbase compared to what it started with. Destiny will go the same way.

 

Long story short, there is no sure fire way to keep people around. There is always something shiny in the distance to take them away. Dragon Age Inquisition is just around the corner offering co-op multiplayer that people will flock to, it worked for ME3. Withcer 3 is out in February that a few of us are waiting for. Eternal Crusade is out next yer, a Warhammer 40k mass MMO shooter (and one i'm personally waiting for).

 

The only thing a game can do is keep it's core players happy and hope it's enough to bring new people in. If things change too much then there is a chance of upsetting those core players and having them move along which would hurt the game (i'm not one of those for the record, i'm as fickle as everyone else, sooner or later i'll be gone ... not that anyone cares *sniff*).

 

There is no guaranteed survival in this industry. We've all seen developers and games we love come and go. Warframe will not last forever. The only thing you can hope for is a good long run and to enjoy what you are doing.

You are right there is not a surefire way to keep all your player base, people leave for lots of reasons not always for the next great thing

 

Lets be clear about PC gaming, asside from getting prettier nothing much has changed since doom asside from online play.

 

Online play and commanderie, whilst not a magic bullet are the bare minimum for a game to have any real life after sale and on the later WF is lacking

 

WF is very pretty and lets be honest there isnt anything new that is prettier so why move on to something less attractive

 

You are right about the missions being repetative and I agree there needs to be a lot  more effort in making each planet distinct from its peers but when you look at a lot of sucessful games they too are reusing the same themes and components.

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The focus on new player experience (storyline, walkthrough of concepts, etc.), all lend towards building more of a relationship between the gamer and the game. That is actually the cornerstone: multiplayer is kind of secondary in this game. You can solo most if the content with the right gear. The biggest thing is why should a player keep playing? Same thing with other MMO's. Once you've collected the best gear, what is left?

There is no Raid gear in the game. No endgame content that requires pooling of resources. Then there is also very little guarantee for the risk reward of doing something difficult. I love the game. I have every frame (except for Nyx and Loki prime) and basically every weapon. I am now at the point of, why?

Story and content are why I play games. At this point I wait till there is more to play. When it's exhausted I go elsewhere.

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Problem is, half of the people cannot even force themself to login on daily basis. There is nothing to do and login every day has no point.

 

 

DE doesnt offer long lasting content with replay value as they obviously concentrated on creating more grind content. There is also no benefit from teamplay or any kind of co-op. At one point, you can do everything by yourself in the game.

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The focus on new player experience (storyline, walkthrough of concepts, etc.), all lend towards building more of a relationship between the gamer and the game. That is actually the cornerstone: multiplayer is kind of secondary in this game. You can solo most if the content with the right gear. The biggest thing is why should a player keep playing? Same thing with other MMO's. Once you've collected the best gear, what is left?

There is no Raid gear in the game. No endgame content that requires pooling of resources. Then there is also very little guarantee for the risk reward of doing something difficult. I love the game. I have every frame (except for Nyx and Loki prime) and basically every weapon. I am now at the point of, why?

Story and content are why I play games. At this point I wait till there is more to play. When it's exhausted I go elsewhere.

I too came for the story, it promised so much but the one thing you can say about DE and WF is that they never follow anything through to a logical conclusion. Everything shouts potential but looks as though they got bored half way through, just look at the dojo. The dojo should be the centre of the clan with everyone in there between games not stuck alone in a ship. The team ought to all pile into the ship and vie for seats, you should have to battle to reach the planet with players piloting and shooting down enemies with millenium falcon style turrets before you even reach the mission location.

 

As I say there is much that could be improved so that team play is where the real fun is, grinding alone should be discouraged as it limits your player base to only those who can be satisfied with working steadily towards a goal. Yes make all items grindable but by the clan, grind alone should not the whole focus of the game

Edited by LeMoog
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You are right there is not a surefire way to keep all your player base, people leave for lots of reasons not always for the next great thing

 

Lets be clear about PC gaming, asside from getting prettier nothing much has changed since doom asside from online play.

 

Online play and commanderie, whilst not a magic bullet are the bare minimum for a game to have any real life after sale and on the later WF is lacking

 

WF is very pretty and lets be honest there isnt anything new that is prettier so why move on to something less attractive

 

You are right about the missions being repetative and I agree there needs to be a lot  more effort in making each planet distinct from its peers but when you look at a lot of sucessful games they too are reusing the same themes and components.

 

 

You are perfectly right in everything you said. Not much has changed since the early days. Even way back in the early 80's on the 2600 games still followed a similar theme to what we see now .... although less blocky looking.

 

Multiplayer has grown a lot over the years. I won;t say it's needed for a game to survive, quite a few games stand the test of time without it (Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Witcher, Dragon Age Origins ... mainly RPG's) but I will admit that multiplayer helps a hell of a lot. I thought ME3's would be terrible but it kept me occupied for roughly 300 hours.

 

I think what helps some games is player driven content.

 

Take Neverwinter, not the best example of an MMO but some of the player created quests are fantastic. I did one based on the Wizard of Oz and it had some good humour with it.

 

Maybe having some player created missions would help, maybe not, but it's an idea I think a few people have had.

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You are perfectly right in everything you said. Not much has changed since the early days. Even way back in the early 80's on the 2600 games still followed a similar theme to what we see now .... although less blocky looking.

 

Multiplayer has grown a lot over the years. I won;t say it's needed for a game to survive, quite a few games stand the test of time without it (Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Witcher, Dragon Age Origins ... mainly RPG's) but I will admit that multiplayer helps a hell of a lot. I thought ME3's would be terrible but it kept me occupied for roughly 300 hours.

 

I think what helps some games is player driven content.

 

Take Neverwinter, not the best example of an MMO but some of the player created quests are fantastic. I did one based on the Wizard of Oz and it had some good humour with it.

 

Maybe having some player created missions would help, maybe not, but it's an idea I think a few people have had.

I think this is an excellent point and could allow the community to finish the work started and add so much more, there have been a lot of creative people who played and added their ideas. If they could show their idea to the community then it would make addition content much cheaper and faster to implement. I have seen a lot of excellent art work and concepts that should have been allowed to extend the game and encourage the involvement I hope we all want to see

Edited by LeMoog
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What warframe needs is player created mods.

ME3 kept me entertained for close to 1000 hours because there was always something crazy to do.

http://me3tweaks.mgamerzproductions.com/2013/05/insanity-challenge.html

Banshees, pls: http://youtu.be/Leq0JsmQHPE

Even if there is no reward I would love to play a mode where you have crazy amount of bosses coming at you just cause it would be fun.

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What warframe needs is player created mods.

ME3 kept me entertained for close to 1000 hours because there was always something crazy to do.

http://me3tweaks.mgamerzproductions.com/2013/05/insanity-challenge.html

Banshees, pls: http://youtu.be/Leq0JsmQHPE

Even if there is no reward I would love to play a mode where you have crazy amount of bosses coming at you just cause it would be fun.

DE will never allow us to have access for their source code. Fun is not allowed in Warframe.

 

 

You can only expect more grind.

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DE will never allow us to have access for their source code. Fun is not allowed in Warframe.

 

 

You can only expect more grind.

 

It rather depends upon DE, if they see what I see then they must know the new content alone isnt enough, I like Nyx but I can live without the prime version the weapons are okay but scindo was broken on melee 2.0 and hikou prime is just another credit towards mastery which I got bored levelling at M12.

 

Lots of games have allowed players to develope their own content without anything untoward happening so what could discourage DE from allowing their community to help definate what they want WF to be directly.

 

When you look at sourcefilm maker and Garrys mod, the game advertising potential alone was worth opening the game up to a wider audience and utility

Edited by LeMoog
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