Dedicated Servers For Fair Pvp

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

1) I don't know about you, but disarming a console takes roughly 2 seconds. Attackers have to arm it and protect it. Not to mention attackers are getting harassed by the (as you said) increasing level of enemies along with the defenders.

Battlepay can go both ways, but the defenders are much more likely to have more battlepay and a bigger vault as they have been the ones taxing the whole time.

2) In most FPSs, it is generally a bad idea to use the melee attack regurally. It puts you at a disadvantage because you are squishy and slow (compared to bullets).

Warframe is the exact opposite. With the ability to jump across the map along with the potential to have 1000 plus shields, melee becomes one of the only good options. Why, because, at least in the X1, keeping your crosshair on a speedy target is difficult. Now imagine that target soaking up 6+ rounds of my Latron Wraith. Now imagine I can knock him to the floor, floor stab him, and proceed to either stagger him as he tried to escape or make him fight a losing melee duel. That's why melee is used so much. It is by far the most reliable way to kill another Tenno.

3) The defenders will usually have to kill real players. The attackers, however, have a window of opportunity, however small, to fight helpless specters. Now let's imagine, a defender spawns in with nothing and goes outside the spawn. He meets an enemy player with only halfway leveled stuff. The defender gets wrecked.

Will that defender stay? I don't really care about your personal friends or clan mates simply because this argument refers to the Warframe community on a global scale.

Also, saying the attackers don't have this advantage means that the defenders have an even larger advantage over the attackers.

4) If something is OP or you're simply outgunned, tactics no longer matter.

For any balance to work, these will need to happen:

-Players can change loadouts when they die.

-Everything is specifically balanced to have a counter.

-This is the biggest one. Destiny' system will need to be implemented. Weapon B may be the counter to weapon A, but if weapon A has 3 formats and a potato on it, weapon B becomes irrelevant. Balance is broken. Bungie implemented a system that averaged everyone's power, weapons, etc and distributed that average to everyone. In other words, your endgame stuff is dragged down by a new player because you would simply wreck him otherwise.

This will never be implemented in Warframe because he ruins the value of farming and hard work. Why should I care about maxing my Paris Prime if my MK1 Braton will simply get me the same results.

5) I just want to finally say that PvP will be forever broken unless serious effort was put into it. Keep in mind that the third implementation (in #4) can be averted if enough work was put into PvP. However, this idea was implanted by Bungie. The guys who created Halo. In other words, a much wealthier, more respected, and bigger studio chose the easy route. This means that PvE will likely suffer to fix something that, frankly, shouldn't have gone farther than conclave.

I have faith in DE, but there is a time for dreaming and a time for realistic thinking.

[HiTekRedNek]

I'm not saying it doesn't need work, but what game doesn't. Last thing I want is for them to take the spirit of warframe combat out in the name of balance. This game takes a bit more skill in pvp than some games I have played before and I really love it, but it also takes some time to get yourself ready to go in there. You really need to be a somewhat established player, or have people willing to help and get you ready to go into sectors, which is why I highly recommend meeting people and joining a clan or alliance. I am lucky to be a member of a great clan that is in an awesome alliance. I don't want this thread to get too far off subject. Point is that by using dedicated servers it would remove the advantages and the problems caused by player hosted instances in PvP and allow for more clarity on what really needs to be 'balanced" and what needs to left alone and people need to just learn a strategy or counter against it.

Edited October 10, 2014 by HiTekRedNek

[HiTekRedNek]

messed up an edit on this post.

Edited October 10, 2014 by HiTekRedNek

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

I'm not saying it doesn't need work, but what game doesn't. Last thing I want is for them to take the spirit of warframe combat out in the name of balance. This game takes a bit more skill in pvp than some games I have played before and I really love it, but it also takes some time to get yourself ready to go in there. You really need to be a somewhat established player, or have people willing to help and get you ready to go into sectors, which is why I highly recommend meeting people and joining a clan or alliance. I am lucky to be a member of a great clan that is in an awesome alliance. I don't want this thread to get too far off subject. Point is that by using dedicated servers it would remove the advantages and the problems caused by player hosted instances in PvP and allow for more clarity on what really needs to be 'balanced" and what needs to left alone and people need to just learn a strategy or counter against it.

I'm simply saying that, as someone else did in the clone thread, it would be a near complete waste of materials, time, and money.

"Last thing I want is for them to take the spirit of warframe combat out in the name if balance."

The "spirit of Warframe" is PvE combat. It is the basis for most of Warframe's items. Warframe can be a good PvE and PvP game, but DE simply doesn't have the ability to do it properly.

[vaugahn]

but DE simply doesn't have the ability to do it properly.

 

And you know that how?

[HiTekRedNek]

I'm simply saying that, as someone else did in the clone thread, it would be a near complete waste of materials, time, and money.

"Last thing I want is for them to take the spirit of warframe combat out in the name if balance."

The "spirit of Warframe" is PvE combat. It is the basis for most of Warframe's items. Warframe can be a good PvE and PvP game, but DE simply doesn't have the ability to do it properly.

I for one think DE has done a tremendous job on this game, I have said many times before, that of all the online games I have played over the years, I firmly believe that these guys do one of the best, if not THE BEST job of being connected to their community and constantly trying to fix things and release new content in a timely manner (honestly who else have you ever seen drop a hotfix at 2am in the morning, I mean really?). The style of combat was paved in PvE, that does not mean that the spirit of that style of combat should be watered down in the name of "balance." I for one have Faith that these guys can do it, and I really hope that they keep the PvP hardcore like it is and they don't "balance" things just because a bunch of people keep getting their asses handed to them, and they aren't willing to go and learn why that particular weapon/frame is killing them so easily, and find out how to counter it. That exact argument happens on this forum daily. People complain about Ash, Valkyr, Vauban, and other frames and weapons, and come on here and claim "they're OP, they need to be nerfed," without actually talking to someone more experienced or with more knowledge and asking, "hey I see you running this frame, how can I counter against it" or take the time and check the wiki  and learn something new.

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

And you know that how?

Because an even larger and more well known studio could not do it.

Warframe isn't even complete.

I for one think DE has done a tremendous job on this game, I have said many times before, that of all the online games I have played over the years, I firmly believe that these guys do one of the best, if not THE BEST job of being connected to their community and constantly trying to fix things and release new content in a timely manner (honestly who else have you ever seen drop a hotfix at 2am in the morning, I mean really?). The style of combat was paved in PvE, that does not mean that the spirit of that style of combat should be watered down in the name of "balance." I for one have Faith that these guys can do it, and I really hope that they keep the PvP hardcore like it is and they don't "balance" things just because a bunch of people keep getting their asses handed to them, and they aren't willing to go and learn why that particular weapon/frame is killing them so easily, and find out how to counter it. That exact argument happens on this forum daily. People complain about Ash, Valkyr, Vauban, and other frames and weapons, and come on here and claim "they're OP, they need to be nerfed," without actually talking to someone more experienced or with more knowledge and asking, "hey I see you running this frame, how can I counter against it" or take the time and check the wiki and learn something new.

1) DE has done a very good job. I am very surprised at the level of dedication from these individuals. I think Warframe has a great future. That, however, doesn't mean I will condone pipe dreams.

2) Your "nothing is OP" argument is invalid. I have explained why. I do not wish to do it again.

"That argument only applies to games where all items are acailable from the beggining. For example, weapon A's counter is weapon B. That's all fine and dandy, but what if weapon B is not in the game[?] Players could own weapon B (which also assumes they went to farm for it which assumes they has the ability to farm for it which assumes they had the time which assumes they actually could go farm for it), but that does not necessarily mean they chose it before they launched the match. "

Edited October 10, 2014 by (XB1)ShapelessHorr0r

[HiTekRedNek]

Because an even larger and more well known studio could not do it.

Warframe isn't even complete.

1) DE has done a very good job. I am very surprised at the level of dedication from these individuals. I think Warframe has a great future. That, however, doesn't mean I will condone pipe dreams.

2) Your "nothing is OP" argument is invalid. I have explained why. I do not wish to do it again.

"That argument only applies to games where all items are acailable from the beggining. For example, weapon A's counter is weapon B. That's all fine and dandy, but what if weapon B is not in the game[?] Players could own weapon B (which also assumes they went to farm for it which assumes they has the ability to farm for it which assumes they had the time which assumes they actually could go farm for it), but that does not necessarily mean they chose it before they launched the match. "

Balance does not come from everyone having ever weapon available from the beginning, there is no such thing in any successful PvP game out there, that would basically be a big F U to the people that have been playing since the beginning. Point is that there are counters to just about everything. People should be more concerned with learning how to counter the weapons and frames than just complaining about them being OP on the forums. With hope to try to keep the thread on track though, I still firmly believe that dedicated servers would help make it easier to really know what may need to be changed, and it would remove the advantages gained by hosting, and help with the learning curve of the PvP by making the lag/cheating issues one less thing people have to worry about while trying to support their clans and alliances on the rails.

[vaugahn]

Because an even larger and more well known studio could not do it.

Warframe isn't even complete.

 

DE isn't Bungie, and Warframe isn't Destiny. Let's not compare apples and oranges here. Different games have different needs, and different studios handle those needs differently. Unless you have some hard data on DE's capabilities and the amount of work required, you're just grasping at straws with that.

 

Basically, what you're saying is that you don't think DE is able to balance PvP, so they shouldn't even try. Great attitude. 

[polkunus]

We need dedicated servers.

 

One of my biggest disappointments with this game is the lack of a dedi server system, I really hope if DE gets a nice constant stream of revenue, they'll become a thing and starting with PVP would be great. The last PC P2P game I played online was C&C tiberian sun.

 

As for the argument that PVP won't be fair in games that require you to accumulate stats and gear, its definitely correct, but there's no harm in trying to create some sort of balance to make the game more fun in PVP. BC arena wow wasn't too bad, there were some areas which could have been tweaked better, but overall it was a very enjoyable experience.

 

I hope in the future pvp will actually become a big thing, with dojos and bgs and what not. Because min-maxing for fun doesn't seem to have a lot of merit behind it when you can't test your skills/strategic builds against another opponent. This is the biggest issue I had with the diablo series, especially diablo 3, I just didn't see the point in improving if I can't interact with other players in combat

Edited October 11, 2014 by polkunus

[HiTekRedNek]

We need dedicated servers.

One of my biggest disappointments with this game is the lack of a dedi server system, I really hope if DE gets a nice constant stream of revenue, they'll become a thing and starting with PVP would be great. The last PC P2P game I played online was C&C tiberian sun.

As for the argument that PVP won't be fair in games that require you to accumulate stats and gear, its definitely correct, but there's no harm in trying to create some sort of balance to make the game more fun in PVP. BC arena wow wasn't too bad, there were some areas which could have been tweaked better, but overall it was a very enjoyable experience.

I hope in the future pvp will actually become a big thing, with dojos and bgs and what not. Because min-maxing for fun doesn't seem to have a lot of merit behind it when you can't test your skills/strategic builds against another opponent. This is the biggest issue I had with the diablo series, especially diablo 3, I just didn't see the point in improving if I can't interact with other players in combat

Well, with the public areas mentioned for the future, I don't see how they would pull any of that off without dedicated servers for those areas, which is why I revisited this issue that I had. If they are going to start using dedicated servers I would like to see them added for PvP. As far as people saying having to grind for gear before you come into PvP, or that if a Master 2 person with rank 16 stuff goes in and gets rolled by a Mastery 17 with maxed forma'd weapons and frame, isn't fair; then the best thing I can say is for people to prepare themselves before they come in, please don't go rushing into dark sectors expecting that with your starting weapons and a basic understanding of the game mechanics you're going to do well against people who are constantly preparing and theory crafting with defending or attacking the rails in mind. I know that the people I play with, and PvP with spend hours developing builds, and learning about as much as they can so that when we go in we are fully prepared. I think if more people shared that mentality there would be a lot less people b*&%$ing about everthing being OP.

Edited October 11, 2014 by HiTekRedNek

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

DE isn't Bungie, and Warframe isn't Destiny. Let's not compare apples and oranges here. Different games have different needs, and different studios handle those needs differently. Unless you have some hard data on DE's capabilities and the amount of work required, you're just grasping at straws with that.

Basically, what you're saying is that you don't think DE is able to balance PvP, so they shouldn't even try. Great attitude.

DE might as well be Bungie considering the striking similarities Warframe has to Halo and Destiny.

Also, they're welcome to try, but I'd rather they focus on the thing most WF players play WF for: its PvE. My attitude is of realism.

Edit: The argument above is that tactics and strategies become irrelevant if you have good enough stuff.

Edited October 11, 2014 by (XB1)ShapelessHorr0r

[HiTekRedNek]

DE might as well be Bungie considering the striking similarities Warframe has to Halo and Destiny.

Also, they're welcome to try, but I'd rather they focus on the thing most WF players play WF for: its PvE. My attitude is of realism.

Edit: The argument above is that tactics and strategies become irrelevant if you have good enough stuff.

Tactics and strategy never become irrelevant in PvP, point is that is the only true way to learn how to counter most things is by research, tactics, and strategy. I understand that being an XBox member you are probably a huge Bungie and Halo fan, but honestly there's not much comparison to be made between two games that are completely different if you actually take a look under the hood and understand the differences. Whether the people who mainly play PvE like it or not, PvP is becoming, or in my opinion, has become a core part of this game. Your attitude is not of realism, I actually find it a bit offensive that you write the DE guys and gals off like you have. I think they are doing a damn good job with Warframe. As a long time gamer, I have rarely seen the amount of involvement by developers in any game, F2P or even subscription based, as the DE crew does. Like I said before, show me a group willing to drop a hotfix, for even a minor issue at 2am on the weekend. Most other games, other than a cpl of private and indie games with a much smaller community, would make you wait until their offices opened up on Monday, even if it meant that large percentage of players couldn't even play. 

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

Tactics and strategy never become irrelevant in PvP, point is that is the only true way to learn how to counter most things is by research, tactics, and strategy. I understand that being an XBox member you are probably a huge Bungie and Halo fan, but honestly there's not much comparison to be made between two games that are completely different if you actually take a look under the hood and understand the differences. Whether the people who mainly play PvE like it or not, PvP is becoming, or in my opinion, has become a core part of this game. Your attitude is not of realism, I actually find it a bit offensive that you write the DE guys and gals off like you have. I think they are doing a damn good job with Warframe. As a long time gamer, I have rarely seen the amount of involvement by developers in any game, F2P or even subscription based, as the DE crew does. Like I said before, show me a group willing to drop a hotfix, for even a minor issue at 2am on the weekend. Most other games, other than a cpl of private and indie games with a much smaller community, would make you wait until their offices opened up on Monday, even if it meant that large percentage of players couldn't even play.

1) I'll just refer back to my argument. Let's say weapon A is countered by weapon B, B to C, and C to A.

Now let's look at real world situations. What if no player has Weapon B? What if Weapon C is so maxed out that Weapon A cannot pissibly beat it? What is Weapon A's prime version shows up against weapon A? These are all highly valid situations because of the amount of weapons in Warframe along with the grinding assiciatrd with getting even begginners level gear.

Strategy and tactics are great and all, but at the end if the day, it's the hardware and training (experience/playtime), not the user (especially in MMOs/RPGs).

2)Warframe has a highly similar story to Halo, and it's gameplay is like most other MMOs/RPGs (like Destiny). I'd be perfectly happy to name them off.

3) When have I said that DE has not done a good job?

When have I said that DE wasn't involved?

When have I said that a hot fix at 2 a.m. was not a glorious example of dev support.

I find it offensive that you are so against criticism. I choose to not believe in (what I would call) pipe dreams because a dev team shows some inkling of community outreach. We are so starved of this that we grasp and latch onto any dev who says ANYTHING about forum posts.

What do you thinking my mindset is? I came from Battlefield. A community so toxic and immature that the dev team gave up a long time ago. DE is doing great! I have this criticism and lack of faith because I have seen BS everywhere. I mean EVERYWHERE, especially from F2P games.

Most devs are not like DE, hence why I am skeptical.

[HiTekRedNek]

1) I'll just refer back to my argument. Let's say weapon A is countered by weapon B, B to C, and C to A.

Now let's look at real world situations. What if no player has Weapon B? What if Weapon C is so maxed out that Weapon A cannot &!$$ibly beat it? What is Weapon A's prime version shows up against weapon A? These are all highly valid situations because of the amount of weapons in Warframe along with the grinding assiciatrd with getting even begginners level gear.

Strategy and tactics are great and all, but at the end if the day, it's the hardware and training (experience/playtime), not the user (especially in MMOs/RPGs).

2)Warframe has a highly similar story to Halo, and it's gameplay is like most other MMOs/RPGs (like Destiny). I'd be perfectly happy to name them off.

3) When have I said that DE has not done a good job?

When have I said that DE wasn't involved?

When have I said that a hot fix at 2 a.m. was not a glorious example of dev support.

I find it offensive that you are so against criticism. I choose to not believe in (what I would call) pipe dreams because a dev team shows some inkling of community outreach. We are so starved of this that we grasp and latch onto any dev who says ANYTHING about forum posts.

What do you thinking my mindset is? I came from Battlefield. A community so toxic and immature that the dev team gave up a long time ago. DE is doing great! I have this criticism and lack of faith because I have seen BS everywhere. I mean EVERYWHERE, especially from F2P games.

Most devs are not like DE, hence why I am skeptical.

1) I went into PvP last night with AK Latos with Hornet Strike and the new Slashing mod and no potato and got plenty of kills with it...... there are plenty of weapons that are not end game or even hard to get, most of the core weapons I see are actually some of the lower cost weapons. Yea are there some weapons that are really fun to use in PvP that require clan research and more grinding, yes, but it doesn't mean they are an end-all/cure-all for PvP, or that if you get them you will miraculously start winning every sector you run, that kind of thinking is just wrong. More important than the equipment, is the person behind the controller/keyboard and their understanding of how to use that equipment. One of my favorite sayings by one of my instructors was that "With knowledge and training you can never truly be unarmed, the true weapon is the grey stuff between your ears." 

 

 

2) Warframe is based off the lore and background behind Dark Sector (thought you should know that as an XBox guy) Halo came before that, I know because I still have my first copy and my original XBox, and when I feel nostalgic I go and play a little bit. The core of each game is different, I'm not saying that some of the people at DE weren't inspired by what Bungie pulled off with the first Halo, who in my generation weren't awed and inspired by that game, but in the long run these guys came up with their own story, their own mechanics,  their own lore(which as a dark sector fan I would reallly like to see more of *hint hint DE if you get the chance to read this*). To keep comparing the 2 games is to compare Oregon Trail on Apple II E to playing UO on windows. Every gamer or person in the gaming industry is touched and often inspired by the numerous games they play, but you can always find enough things in any game in a similar genre to say, look they copied this, when all of the people who used anything simlar to that could be said to have copied the original. Using that logic, you could say the Halo was an alien inspired twist on Duke Nukem 3D. As far as mentioning Destiny..... uhhh check you timeline WARFRAME CAME FIRST..... alot of us have been playing this game since Alpha and early Beta, and then open beta; all of which happened way before destiny. I know you guys in the PS4 and XBox communities are just now getting a chance to play, which is great, but it also means that you guys don't realize how much better it is now because of the work that has been done by DE in the first place. You think gear is "grindy" now, you have noooooooooooooooooooooo idea what it was like in the beginning. Please don't twist that as a negative comment either, we knew what we were signing up for when we started playing, it was a "work in progress," and we accepted that from the start, and have watched and had ups and downs as fixes and bugs came and go, and I for one still really enjoy this game, and I am looking forward to what the furture holds. 

 

3) I never said you did, I was just tired of you comparing two totally different developers and games. Like I said before, get your facts in line first. Halo may have come before WF, but WF came way before destiny. TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT GAMES As a battlefied player myself, I honestly think thats a little harsh treatment of Dice, and I'm sorry you feel that way, but having that attitude because you decided to skeptical is not fair to DE and other developers out their that do a damn good job. I hate what EA did to Dice, I hate that they forced games out and update too soon, and it took Dice to finally put there foot down and tell EA to F' Off long enough for the to try and make some of the more drastic fixes. With that being said, I am proud to support DE, especially when they decided to stick it out on their own, to do their own thing and try and make the game they want to make without outside interference from a third party developer. 

 

Now with allllllll that being said, I would really like to get back to the issue of the post, Dedicated Servers would vastly improve the quality and the fairness of PvP in Warframe, and with the introduction of the public areas coming soon, I would like to see DE either try a test run of PvP on a dedicated server, or even better, plan to move the PvP over to them when they can make them available. People may call it a pipe dream, I think it is the next logical step to make Warframe Dark Sector PvP, truly fair and a much better experience, and it would make it alot easier to really spot what actually needs to be tweaked.

Edited October 12, 2014 by HiTekRedNek

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

1) That only solves one issue if it even solved it as it was your own personal experiences.

2) When things came out is irrelevant to me. What is relevant is their similarities. Destiny obviously plays like Warframe; therefore, certain Bungie decisions should be considered.

3) I never made fun of DICE. I simply stated a well known fact throughout the BF forums. Also, it is fair to DE. Most if the AAA decision makers hide behind sakes and PR guys. Even the "good" devs. The piece if advice I got for this situation: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

I don't jump onto bandwagon and hype for a very specific reason. DE is anything but the "white knights leading the consumer's mighty charge," but they are showing some good.

4) I'd rather those resouces go into something else. Dedicated servers for void would be very good.

Edited October 13, 2014 by (XB1)ShapelessHorr0r

[HiTekRedNek]

1) That only solves one issue if it even solved it as it was your own personal experiences.

2) When things came out is irrelevant to me. What is relevant is their similarities. Destiny obviously plays like Warframe; therefore, certain Bungie decisions should be considered.

3) I never made fun of DICE. I simply stated a well known fact throughout the BF forums. Also, it is fair to DE. Most if the AAA decision makers hide behind sakes and PR guys. Even the "good" devs. The piece if advice I got for this situation: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

I don't jump onto bandwagon and hype for a very specific reason. DE is anything but the "white knights leading the consumer's mighty charge," but they are showing some good.

4) I'd rather those resouces go into something else. Dedicated servers for void would be very good.

1) Point was, it's not the weapons as much as it's the person using it.

2) It should be relevant because your views are based upon not playing through each rendition of the game as it got better. The lack of that experience makes me believe that you are assuming a lot of things based upon your view as a player in a group of people that actually benefited most, because you were the last group to get the game, and you have seen the least amount of the work that has been done by DE. (my opinion, you don't have to like it)

3) I didn't say you made fun, I just think that your attitude was a bit harsh. Why not try and be optimistic? I think they at least deserve a shot to impress instead of the expectation they will fail.

4) I'd like to see the resources used wisely, and my point in this whole thins is that with public areas, there should be dedicated servers, and if they are already working on dedicated servers for those, it would be nice for them to try them out in PvP,

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

1) Weapons in game would disagree with you.

2) I'm talking about DE and Bungie, not Warframe through it's many iterations. In Warframe's current state, it is very similar to Destiny (in gameplay) and Halo (in lore).

3) Again, I never said I expected DICE to fail. I simply stated a well shared opinion among the BF community. That opinion is that DICE doesn't communicate because of a toxic community.

[HiTekRedNek]

1) Weapons in game would disagree with you.

2) I'm talking about DE and Bungie, not Warframe through it's many iterations. In Warframe's current state, it is very similar to Destiny (in gameplay) and Halo (in lore).

3) Again, I never said I expected DICE to fail. I simply stated a well shared opinion among the BF community. That opinion is that DICE doesn't communicate because of a toxic community.

1) HOW? I mean really, there is not one weapon in game that is an "INSTANT WIN" button, you still have to be able to know how to use it. The same thing can be said about frames, as much as people like to complain about how frames are OP, especially Ash, please, I mean realllllllly please explain to me how when I run with my guys for PvP we are able to beat them. I mean if it's so easy as pick weapon A and warframe B and we win, then how is it that anyone out there loses? Wait I forgot..... it's teamwork and strategy ROFLMAO

 

1) STOP comparing the games, they are too different to keep trying to do that. How does a military operative, infected with a virus, that becomes the first Tenno have anything to really do with Halo's lore.... I mean seriously?

 

3) THIS ISN't BF, this is Warframe. I personally don't see the need to bring a negative attitude into the forums and place it onto the developers and what they are trying to do with the game because you disliked the way another developer handled a totally different game. That to me, makes it seem like you are expecting it to fail, because you certainly don't sound like you are hoping and rooting for it to succeed. Why try to spread that toxicity you say you are so strongly against? Why not take it as a fresh start?

[vaugahn]

2) I'm talking about DE and Bungie, not Warframe through it's many iterations. In Warframe's current state, it is very similar to Destiny (in gameplay) and Halo (in lore).

 

You seriously need to stop comparing these games. We get it, you're all sad because some other developers suck. But seriously, stop. I don't make decisions about restaurants based on my service somewhere else, the same applies here.

[HiTekRedNek]

You seriously need to stop comparing these games. We get it, you're all sad because some other developers suck. But seriously, stop. I don't make decisions about restaurants based on my service somewhere else, the same applies here.

AMEN, lol

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

1) HOW? I mean really, there is not one weapon in game that is an "INSTANT WIN" button, you still have to be able to know how to use it. The same thing can be said about frames, as much as people like to complain about how frames are OP, especially Ash, please, I mean realllllllly please explain to me how when I run with my guys for PvP we are able to beat them. I mean if it's so easy as pick weapon A and warframe B and we win, then how is it that anyone out there loses? Wait I forgot..... it's teamwork and strategy ROFLMAO

1) STOP comparing the games, they are too different to keep trying to do that. How does a military operative, infected with a virus, that becomes the first Tenno have anything to really do with Halo's lore.... I mean seriously?

3) THIS ISN't BF, this is Warframe. I personally don't see the need to bring a negative attitude into the forums and place it onto the developers and what they are trying to do with the game because you disliked the way another developer handled a totally different game. That to me, makes it seem like you are expecting it to fail, because you certainly don't sound like you are hoping and rooting for it to succeed. Why try to spread that toxicity you say you are so strongly against? Why not take it as a fresh start?

1) The Braton is a direct upgrade from the MK1-Braton. The Braton a Prime is a direct upgrade over the Braton.

MK1<Braton<Prime

How do you balance that? Bungie, in Destiny, found a solution. Hence the reason I bring that up. Bungie implemented an averaging system. With their system, all three of those weapons will be equal to each other in terms of stats. The weapons must be equal. Otherwise, skill can NEVER be truly determined.

2) Orokin = forerunners

Sentients/infested = flood

Tenno = Spartans

Grineer/corpus = covenant

Lotus = cortana

Void maps = forerunner structures

Space magic = forerunner tech

Shall I continue? Also, we're talking about Warframe, not Dark Sector.

3) Am I not allowed to applaud DE for its work yet be wary of their actions. I don't befriend companies. I've learned that lesson.

:)

Edited October 14, 2014 by (XB1)ShapelessHorr0r

[HiTekRedNek]

1) The Braton is a direct upgrade from the MK1-Braton. The Braton a Prime is a direct upgrade over the Braton.

MK1<Braton<Prime

How do you balance that? Bungie, in Destiny, found a solution. Hence the reason I bring that up. Bungie implemented an averaging system. With their system, all three of those weapons will be equal to each other in terms of stats. The weapons must be equal. Otherwise, skill can NEVER be truly determined.

2) Orokin = forerunners

Sentients/infested = flood

Tenno = Spartans

Grineer/corpus = covenant

Lotus = cortana

Void maps = forerunner structures

Space magic = forerunner tech

Shall I continue? Also, we're talking about Warframe, not Dark Sector.

3) Am I not allowed to applaud DE for its work yet be wary of their actions. I don't befriend companies. I've learned that lesson.

:)

1) Really, so it should just be a visual upgrade? What are we playing GWs 2?

 

2) You can sit there and try to list similarities in games all you want, the point is that the core mechanics, design, and original story are different. The play style is completely different. There's no use in comparing the games over and over again. The people who started playing this game in the beginning and have been around through all the ups and downs deserve better than that, so do DE.

 

3) Yea sure, you're allowed to have whatever opinion that you want. I just found offense in the way you worded what you were saying, because it basically made it sound like you want or expect DE to fail, or think that they're not good enough to finish the game they started. I for one haven't seen anything that's thrown up a red flag at all. Since I have been playing, I have experienced nothing but some of the best developing and game community interaction that I haven't seen since the early days of UO or WoW.  It's just a different state of mind I guess, I would rather look at the good than hope for the bad.

 

Again though, I would like to get this back on track, and get people aware of the benefits of dedicated servers versus player hosted instances for PvP, and how that would remove many of the problems and advantages being exploited, while also making easier to really see what needs to be balanced, and what should be left alone and people should just learn how to counter.

[pich]

servers please my dudes

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

1) Exactly. There will NEVER be balance unless that system was in place. However, that system would absolutely SUCK for Warframe. It goes back to the issue that Warframe (and Destiny) is focused towards PvE, and it's interactions.

2) Warframe follows the generic free-to-play RPG/MMO model. Destiny follows the generic RPG/MMO model. They are very similar in gameplay. Exactly how is the playstyle different?

3) I hold a different view. It is pessimistic, but it works.

Expect the worst, celebrate the best.

I've done an awful lot if celebrating, but I'm still going to state any problems I see/foresee.

4) That's the reason we're having this discussion. I think PvP needs a lot more work before it is ready to get dedicated servers. In its current state, I doubt they would be used all that often (save for the big battle pays of course).