Excalibur Soon To Come Nerf

[tocorro]

After watching devstream 38.

Well ... as I recall community wanted a REWORK of ExcaliBro.

Yet all we'll get is few tweaks to his skills (useless) and a nerf to radial blind. So basically a NERF.

Slash dash - not touched at all

Radial blind - nerfed

Super jump - small radial stun and somewhat invis when in air ... great ... so many cramped corridors

                      ... so many bumps on Excaliburs head

                     What about the most popular idea : make it an empowering skill : faster, stronger, jumps higher etc.

Radial blind - removed target cap and spawns closer to target ... pathetic damage with no scaling and super long casting

                     no utility = useless

I believe we wanted utility to Excal skills if the nerf to RB is such a must.

And as it is now we won't get anything. No real problems of his skill set will be resolved by what Scott said on devstream.

Ergo : straight out NERF

 

I don't like it. How about You guys ?

 

EDIT :

For those guys that just reads the first post. I'm not crying because Nerf is comming, I'm pleading for a proper rework and adding utility to his skills. 

"What Scott said in devstream, altough just "ideas" is nothing more than straight damage skills.

Remowing target cap from Radial Javelin is a good move, spawning them colser to enimies also - but it lacks utility - if it won't kill them on the first shot Excalibro probably will end up downed.

Super Jump - some like it, even more think it is so circumstantial that they use it rarely or don't use it at all. Idea of Scott - add a litle area stun while jumping, and make Excal invis while in air. It is somewhat of a fix, especially that You wouldn't be shoot while midair, alas it doesn't resolve the issue : skill is not versatile enough - Zephyr has something like a merge of slas dash and super jump and it is omni directional = so much better (don't like her dive bomb tho it is circumstantial as well). The idea with empowering skill Super Charge (I believe that was what r0ckwolf called it) is so much better - it could incorporate super jump when active, and give little boost to speed, stamina etc.

Slash dash - I don't have my own opinion how to improve this utility wise, but I read that it should have combo counter and should knock down enemies on it's path. It's a good idea, tidal wave, charge etc works similiar to this."

 

EDIT 2:

 "It also just goes to show the power of Archwing, able to create sound in the vacuum space. Orokin technology is truly incredible, and it’s definitely not just the Tenno saying ‘pew pew pew’ to themselves while blowing up Grineer."

Direct quote from main page regarding upcoming Archwing. Creating sound in vacuum space ... right, makes perfect sens ;]

And DE tells us that light going through walls is complete nonsens - btw. in physics there is a finite possibility of it happening : tunneling phenomenon (and not only light, matter as well). But in the vacuum of space, there are no molecules to propagate sound waves - I see a flaw in their argumentation . So DEvs exactly know that fun is more important than realism in video game, they just omit it when it is convenient.

 

EDIT 3:

Well I should have added this sooner, since discussions in this thread evolved and we did get a bit more info from devs.

DE_Adam posted :

Super Jump:  It’s still an amazingly high jump (some would say it goes super high) but as a bonus Super Jump will now add invisibility to Excalibur while in air.  Additionally Super Jump will cause a small radial stun to all enemies around Excalibur when performed, similar to the way Ash’s Smoke Screen works.

It’s our hope that this change to Super Jump will make it less of a situational ability to reach high places, but also a utility tool for tight corridors or enemy-dense melee situations that you may not want to Slash Dash through.

 

Radial Blind: No longer able to affect enemies in rooms separated by walls. To encourage and facilitate different gameplay styles (like stealth), enemies aware of Excalibur within a few seconds or enemies that Excalibur can see will also be affected.

 

Radial Javelin:  All enemies within radius of this ability will now be hit with a javelin.  Instead of having this ability radiate out from Excalibur, javelins will now spawn directly around opponents.  Javelins will optimize to find a point on each enemy that is safe to be hit, bypassing enemies that may be holding shields or otherwise in cover. There is also no longer a target maximum for this ultimate, meaning anyone in the radius will be an eligible target.

 

My comment :

Well we will see ...

Still thinking Super Jump should be changed to something else entirely.

Radial Javelin going from straight damage to some utility is good. I hope for even more utility.

Radial Blind ... if it will work and a knee high obstacle won't save enemies from being blinded then I'll adjust to new playstyle (still I think there are more OP abilities out there that need nerf more badly than this - i.e. Radial Disarm - I know it's ult but c'mon it goes through walls, it can disarm whole room and it last forever - I like to play Loki but to be honest that skill lasting forever is a bit OP)

Slash Dash - still no love - it is used mostly as a moving thingi ... and we will get a better moving thingi with aerial/directional melee

Edited October 14, 2014 by tocorro

[R34LM]

You don't even know what the actual changes will be; DE only mentioned ideas. Just wait until it comes out.

[Cradicias]

Radial Blind is being adjusted to not be OP. Before, it could hit through walls to enemies way out of sight. Radial Javelin is now being bumped up to be on par with other ultimates in that it can hit an unlimited number of enemies (that's a boost, not "useless"). Having a radius stun on Super Jump is also a boost, as before it was a limited utility power that could be highly useful at times. Really not much to complain about at all.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Cradicias

[R34LM]

Radial Blind is being adjusted to not be OP. Before, it could hit through walls to enemies way out of sight. Radial Javelin is now being bumped up to be on par with other ultimates in that it can hit an unlimited number of enemies (that's a boost, not "useless"). Having a radius stun on Super Jump is also a boost, as before it was a limited utility power that could be highly useful at times. Really not much to complain about at all.

Second all of this.

[Zirion_Bk]

I am not going to judge the Rework until it is here. When it is here, I will try it out and experience the changes, then decide on whether I should call it a nerf, buff or a balance pass.

[xkillo32]

Radial Blind is being adjusted to not be OP. Before, it could hit through walls to enemies way out of sight. Radial Javelin is now being bumped up to be on par with other ultimates in that it can hit an unlimited number of enemies (that's a boost, not "useless"). Having a radius stun on Super Jump is also a boost, as before it was a limited utility power that could be highly useful at times. Really not much to complain about at all.

loki radial disarm can hit through walls too

so wat

[Zirion_Bk]

loki radial disarm can hit through walls too

so wat

Radial Disarm: 100 energy ultimate

 

Radial Blind: 50 energy 2nd ability

 

See the difference?

[Stormandreas]

Slash dash - Doesn't need anything

Radial Blind - Blinding enemies 60 meters away through walls... ok, because that makes perfect sense. No, it needed changed.

Super Jump - If you're not capable of using this ability in any environment well, you shouldn't be playing Warframe. You need to keep an eye on your surroundings and use abilities and weapons effectively, which this can do.

 

Radial Javelin - Complete Buff. Increased enemies being attacked, less time to actually hit them, so more accurate, and the damage is 1000 damage split 33% to Impact, Puncture and Slash damage, therefore, you'll likely do more than 1000, due to the damage type modifiers on Shields, Armour and Health.

Excalibur is getting a total buff here, with a very understandable fix to Radial Blind

[BoomToon43]

loki radial disarm can hit through walls too

so wat

well that still makes sense, blinding enemies through walls doesn't, when you use radial blind it's supposed to  blind them with the light, makes no sense to blind enemies that wouldn't be able to see it

[Slamyourjam]

Yep they should change the name to Excalinerf. 

[R34LM]

well that still makes sense, blinding enemies through walls doesn't, when you use radial blind it's supposed to  blind them with the light, makes no sense to blind enemies that wouldn't be able to see it

I'd avoid talking about what makes sense in this game; it will get you nowhere. Just saying that based off of experience.

[Fabpsi]

loki radial disarm can hit through walls too

so wat

 

and you compare those two abilities because both use the word radial?  ..... <.<

 

 

It is okay to say that some abilities get changed ( and are not as strong as before) 

However, we should not forget the "good" changes

(the creator of this thread did not mentioned the buff of the 4th ability at all, and at least they try new stuff with his superjump -a short stun can make a difference if you are in the middle of a lot of infested enemies for example... and i think invisibility is always good^^)

 

and about the radial blind thing:

I think this "discussion" is like the little discussion back then when trinitys ulti got changed for the first time.... i have a feeling that "no it wasn't op" and "now nobody will use this warframe" will come up again.... 

 

All i can think of is:

We will see how it works. It is a change in the first place, not a nerf in my opinion

 

....and if the community is still mad about these changes after some weeks of testing and playing.... we can bring this up again, and we can suggest some stuff and say something like "i dont like your changes, here are some different ideas that may work without making this warframe op"

Edited October 4, 2014 by Fabpsi

[Slamyourjam]

and you compare those two abilities because both use the word radial?  ..... <.<

 

 

It is okay to say that some abilities get changed ( and are not as strong as before) 

However, we should not forget the "good" changes

(the creator of this thread did not mentioned the buff of the 4th ability at all, and at least they try new stuff with his superjump -a short stun can make a difference if you are in the middle of a lot of infested enemies for example... and i think invisibility is always good^^)

 

and about the radial blind thing:

I think this "discussion" is like the little discussion back then when trinitys ulti got changed for the first time.... i have a feeling that "no it wasn't op" and "now nobody will use this warframe" will come up again.... 

 

All i can think of is:

We will see how it works. It is a change in the first place, not a nerf in my opinion

 

....and if the community is still mad about these changes after some weeks of testing and playing.... we can bring this up again, and we can suggest some stuff and say something like "i dont like your changes, here are some different ideas that may work without making this warframe op"

 

"All i can think of is:

We will see how it works. It is a change in the first place, not a nerf in my opinion"

 

Uh... A downgrade is a nerf AND a change. 

[Evers]

Radial Blind is being adjusted to not be OP. Before, it could hit through walls to enemies way out of sight. Radial Javelin is now being bumped up to be on par with other ultimates in that it can hit an unlimited number of enemies (that's a boost, not "useless"). Having a radius stun on Super Jump is also a boost, as before it was a limited utility power that could be highly useful at times. Really not much to complain about at all.

 

So Radial Blind is getting a nerf but Mirages Discoball stays the same? When it explodes it has the same effect as Radial Blind with the same range, also hits through walls and so on. 

Seriously Radial Blind is not OP its the only useful thing on Exca. There are abilties that deserv a Nerf much much more and yet they aren't touched.

[BoomToon43]

"All i can think of is:

We will see how it works. It is a change in the first place, not a nerf in my opinion"

 

Uh... A downgrade is a nerf AND a change. 

yea like mrs.lobster skirt's ultimate

[Lynxh]

Radial Blind is being adjusted to not be OP. Before, it could hit through walls to enemies way out of sight. Radial Javelin is now being bumped up to be on par with other ultimates in that it can hit an unlimited number of enemies (that's a boost, not "useless"). Having a radius stun on Super Jump is also a boost, as before it was a limited utility power that could be highly useful at times. Really not much to complain about at all.

 

+1

[tocorro]

Slash dash - Doesn't need anything

Radial Blind - Blinding enemies 60 meters away through walls... ok, because that makes perfect sense. No, it needed changed.

Super Jump - If you're not capable of using this ability in any environment well, you shouldn't be playing Warframe. You need to keep an eye on your surroundings and use abilities and weapons effectively, which this can do.

 

Radial Javelin - Complete Buff. Increased enemies being attacked, less time to actually hit them, so more accurate, and the damage is 1000 damage split 33% to Impact, Puncture and Slash damage, therefore, you'll likely do more than 1000, due to the damage type modifiers on Shields, Armour and Health.

Excalibur is getting a total buff here, with a very understandable fix to Radial Blind

 

"If you're not capable of using (...) you shouldn't be playing Warframe" this is a good one. So I should play as you think is proper? I know when to use a skill and when not to use a skill. I've been in this game for a long time now (over 1100h ingame). My point was : most of maps here are cramped spaces and skill that is only circumstancial isn't of any real value. Yeah we have Zephyr skills, but she can use it to propel herself forward, and she has great defensive skills.

Why I'm ranting before the changes are made ? Because what DE tells on stream they mostly do, so if they said what changes are beeing made now, that include NO utility to Excal skills, then it's not a rework. Straight out damage is beaten by utility in this game - we all know that. I'm expressing my dissaproval now, because the changes aren't introduced YET. So something stil might be changed. If they introduce the changes (and in a form they told in stream) it would take MONTHS (or at least a really long time) for them to change something in his skills to be of use.

 

 

and you compare those two abilities because both use the word radial?  ..... <.<

 

 

It is okay to say that some abilities get changed ( and are not as strong as before) 

However, we should not forget the "good" changes

(the creator of this thread did not mentioned the buff of the 4th ability at all, and at least they try new stuff with his superjump -a short stun can make a difference if you are in the middle of a lot of infested enemies for example... and i think invisibility is always good^^)

 

and about the radial blind thing:

I think this "discussion" is like the little discussion back then when trinitys ulti got changed for the first time.... i have a feeling that "no it wasn't op" and "now nobody will use this warframe" will come up again.... 

 

All i can think of is:

We will see how it works. It is a change in the first place, not a nerf in my opinion

 

....and if the community is still mad about these changes after some weeks of testing and playing.... we can bring this up again, and we can suggest some stuff and say something like "i dont like your changes, here are some different ideas that may work without making this warframe op"

 

The creator of this thread did mention buff to the 4th skill - and summed it up as a straight forward damage buff (altough only in quantity of spawned javelins and their distance from target). Read before you write.

I don't won't to put my Excalibro on hold for few months because the rework that most of Excal players wanted (that would fix problems of his skills and add utility to them) wasn't a rework at all and changed very little to none in an actuall gameplay.

 

For example I've read many players threads in which something like this was contained among other suggestions : Radial Javelin should pin the enemies to walls etc and make them unable to move for a brief moment if the skill won't kill them. This is what I would call a rework.

Edited October 4, 2014 by tocorro

[Slamyourjam]

So Radial Blind is getting a nerf but Mirages Discoball stays the same? When it explodes it has the same effect as Radial Blind with the same range, also hits through walls and so on. 

Seriously Radial Blind is not OP its the only useful thing on Exca. There are abilties that deserv a Nerf much much more and yet they aren't touched.

 

My guess is that its because Excalibur was the one of the first frames and therefore its getting nerfs before everything else. Thank god I didn't make Excalibur. 

[BoomToon43]

My guess is that its because Excalibur was the one of the first frames and therefore its getting nerfs before everything else. Thank god I didn't make Excalibur. 

lol i have ALL thee frames

 

edit: my poor excal prime's radial blind build

Edited October 4, 2014 by BoomToon43

[Slamyourjam]

Slash dash - Doesn't need anything

Radial Blind - Blinding enemies 60 meters away through walls... ok, because that makes perfect sense. No, it needed changed.

Super Jump - If you're not capable of using this ability in any environment well, you shouldn't be playing Warframe. You need to keep an eye on your surroundings and use abilities and weapons effectively, which this can do.

 

Radial Javelin - Complete Buff. Increased enemies being attacked, less time to actually hit them, so more accurate, and the damage is 1000 damage split 33% to Impact, Puncture and Slash damage, therefore, you'll likely do more than 1000, due to the damage type modifiers on Shields, Armour and Health.

Excalibur is getting a total buff here, with a very understandable fix to Radial Blind

 

Radial Blind does make sense if it uses gamma rays because they can pass through walls. Alas we need people going "its too op" at one of Excalibur's best abilities rather than "we need a total rework of the Warframe".

[SleepingSentry]

Even ember's accelerant stun hits enemies through walls.  I'm aware it doesn't last nearly as long, but it's not an issue to spam it every 3 seconds after an hour in survival if you must.  AFAIK every single frame has a way of incapacitating enemies or casting an ability to avoid their fire from safely behind cover except excalibur now, and trinity obviously doesn't need it.  

 

I'll wait and see before complaining, if super jump followed by a blind at the apex of your jump actually becomes viable for late game then I'll make do.  Depends on how effective the invisibility is.  What do you do with low ceilings?  Block I guess until shade invisibility pops, or bum rush into a crowd with slash dash followed by blind and pray you don't go down. 

Edited October 4, 2014 by SleepingSentry

[tocorro]

This is one of the most popular threads about Excal rework :

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/230673-excalibur-20-ability-overhaul-and-super-jump-incorporated-into-the-basic-moveset/

 

So many good ideas to make Excal viable and not OP. 

None of them taken into consideration by devs (based on the "ideas" of changes that Scott was telling in devstream).

[Slamyourjam]

This is one of the most popular threads about Excal rework :

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/230673-excalibur-20-ability-overhaul-and-super-jump-incorporated-into-the-basic-moveset/

 

So many good ideas to make Excal viable and not OP. 

None of them taken into consideration by devs (based on the "ideas" of changes that Scott was telling in devstream).

 

The developers seem to ignore the good feedback and sometimes the bad feedback the community gives. I honestly don't understand how they plan on maintaining this game without listening to their fanbase. *shrugs*

Edited October 5, 2014 by Slamyourjam

[taiiat]

Radial Blind requiring LoS will just make it more engaging to use. you'll Superjump up, and cast it for maximum effectiveness.

 

which is exactly how just about everyone uses Radial Javelin already. getting a height advantage so you can supersede the terrain.

 

 

Edit:

other Powers that can hit Enemies through obstacles and whatnot, are generally a much smaller Range, or to make the more effective, you end up sacrificing Range.

unlike Radial Blind, which has a maximum Range that's as far as MPrime or Stomp.

 

Bastile hits Enemies through all obstacles and anything in the way, but it has a 10 Meter Range.

Edited October 5, 2014 by taiiat

[SoulEchelon]

I love these threads. Every time a rebalance comes out for any warframe, if just ONE of their abilities is slightly tweaked to be weaker than before, ALL OTHER CHANGES are null and void. Who cares Excalibur has a new escape and CC ability. WHO CARES that his ulti will now actually hit people. WHO CARES that he actually still retains an ability that gives him full invulnerability while at the same time slides him right out of harm's way AND does damage. Nah, none of that matters. His Radial Blind doesn't go through walls anymore. Instant trash.

 

Sometimes I hate this forum.