Excalibur Soon To Come Nerf

[Eyeless]

You don't even know what the actual changes will be; DE only mentioned ideas. Just wait until it comes out.

 

To be fair here, a lot of the time, the Devs post an idea the first time that they get nothing but negative feedback on, and then they say it isn't final, only for the final release of the frame to have the exact skills they listed a month ago, irritating everyone until only several months later does the frame get a small re-work that sometimes fixes the problem, othertimes swaps one for another. 

 

I'm still holding out hope for a good Excalibur buff, but I jumped ship to Vauban a long time ago just to avoid disappointment. 

 

Slash Dash needs more utility. It already has three clone abilities that out-perform it in every way, it even gets caught on enemies. 

 

Rhino Charge: Same distance, knocks down enemies in the way, and deals more damage

 

Tail Wind: Lets you !@#% FLY while dealing the damage, and is castable in all directions. 

 

Tidal Surge: Melts through any enemy and knocks anything caught in its wide path down, and travels noticeably longer. 

 

 

See the problem here? 

 

Slash Dash needs SOMETHING to make it comparable to those other skills, because at the end of the day all it can provide is very limited personal mobility and a pitiful Bleed Proc. 

 

Radial Blind I didn't see an issue with, especially with Mirage in the game now. 

 

Super Jump I wholeheartedly agree needs to just be an outright Frame Buff that increases his movement speed, increases jump height, increases stamina, and amplifies melee damage. 

 

Radial javelin being a flat damage skill means it won't scale into T3 or T4 levels, even with unlimited targets. It's only at most a couple thousand damage that enemies tank through at level 35+ without even noticing they were hit by something. 

 

On top of that, it's highly immobile and incredibly slow. At low/mid levels? It's amazing. At the actual high-level play the Vets like to take Excal to though? It's utterly useless unless someone has a Mag with Bullet Attractor to use on a single enemy. 

[BoomToon43]

I love these threads. Every time a rebalance comes out for any warframe, if just ONE of their abilities is slightly tweaked to be weaker than before, ALL OTHER CHANGES are null and void. Who cares Excalibur has a new escape and CC ability. WHO CARES that his ulti will now actually hit people. WHO CARES that he actually still retains an ability that gives him full invulnerability while at the same time slides him right out of harm's way AND does damage. Nah, none of that matters. His Radial Blind doesn't go through walls anymore. Instant trash.

 

Sometimes I hate this forum.

The same thing happens when a new weapon comes out, most people are like NOPE, BOLTOR PRIME IS BETTER, or  DAKRA PRIME IS BETTER. instead of actually doing the math, in other words, i feel you bra

[Cradicias]

They are doing Warframe balancing one at a time. Just cause only Excal is getting looked at right now doesn't mean the others aren't. Patience, people.

[vaugahn]

I hope they do to Excalibur what they did to Oberon. Then everyone will feel very silly for throwing such a fit. 

[VentiGlondi]

I don't think OP realizes what a nerf is.

[(PSN)Veg1ta]

Even ember's accelerant stun hits enemies through walls.  I'm aware it doesn't last nearly as long, but it's not an issue to spam it every 3 seconds after an hour in survival if you must.  AFAIK every single frame has a way of incapacitating enemies or casting an ability to avoid their fire from safely behind cover except excalibur now, and trinity obviously doesn't need it.  

 

I'll wait and see before complaining, if super jump followed by a blind at the apex of your jump actually becomes viable for late game then I'll make do.  Depends on how effective the invisibility is.  What do you do with low ceilings?  Block I guess until shade invisibility pops, or bum rush into a crowd with slash dash followed by blind and pray you don't go down. 

I use ember alot and from my experience accelerent is blocked by blind spots.

[Xeo_Nespydonum]

I think Super Jump is a horrible skill, it doesn't synergize well with blind or dash since it scales on strength.  I'd rather than try to make jump better, just completely remove it and have slash dash be aim-able and come up with a new skill.

[tocorro]

I don't think OP realizes what a nerf is.

 

OP realizes it. Look a post above yours, they guy there is saying basically : add utility to Excal, as was done with Oberon recently.

I'm NOT against balancing warframes. Each and every new frame has a lot of utility in their skills.

What balance is in removing limited amount of targets for radial javelin, or have it spawn closer to enemies (spawning closer doesn't mean it will hit them for sure - they don't track enemies). 

Excal as is now, has just straight damage, and not much at that, hence at some point (and not a far point I believe) You will kill nothing with his skills, and because there is no utility in his ult (example) if You decide to use it in crowd of high lvl mobs instead of blind, you will probably not have a chance to correct this mistake and cast something else (no stun on hit, no pinning to walls, no utility).

And radial blind - I'm calling it as it seems it would be, without adding utility to other of Excal skills this is a nerf, it will impose on You Line of Sight, and for full use of it a combination with Super Jump - not guaranted to work, because it will be dependent on map layout.

So many warframe outperforms him when You compare similiar skills.

Every new frame has a lot of utility in their skills and You want to leave Excal as a "balanced" warframe that, excluding a line-of-sight RB, is just straight damage ? Sorry that is not rework. His skills were designed for a time that has passed and are not suited for the game as it is now.

 

 

Radial Blind requiring LoS will just make it more engaging to use.

-snip-

 

 

Yeah as much engaging as Frost after rework.

Do You remember what Scott said ? "I changed Frost abilities because of so many ppl telling me on forums that they can cast globe, go afk, make a sandwhich, recast and not move from globe" it's not a direct quot.

How it turned out ? As Frost I'm required to sit on my &#! inside the globe and recast because high lvl mobs shred it in seconds. 

Great change ... really. The thing that Scott wanted is achieved ? Players are still sitting in globe, just they are not shooting at all, or very little. They just need to recast the ability. Job well done ?

Edited October 5, 2014 by tocorro

[Arlayn]

I am not going to judge the Rework until it is here. When it is here, I will try it out and experience the changes, then decide on whether I should call it a nerf, buff or a balance pass.

same here. I am worried since Excalibur is my main man. I will see what happens. If I hate it I will voice my opinions on the matter.

[Cradicias]

Thing of it is, Excalibur is a starting Warframe. You can keep using him if you want to, but, the game is designed for you to progress past your starter Warframe. I can personally make Excalibur work just fine on higher end stuff. His skill are all still useful, even on T3 Void stuff (I don't do much T4). The fact that they're making him any what better is a bonus. Radial Javelin's limitations being removed is a major buff in comparison. Radial Blind is only getting a minor nerf, not a huge one. People are over reacting.

[R34LM]

 

Thing of it is, Excalibur is a starting Warframe. You can keep using him if you want to, but, the game is designed for you to progress past your starter Warframe. I can personally make Excalibur work just fine on higher end stuff. His skill are all still useful, even on T3 Void stuff (I don't do much T4). The fact that they're making him any what better is a bonus. Radial Javelin's limitations being removed is a major buff in comparison. Radial Blind is only getting a minor nerf, not a huge one. People are over reacting.

 

This.

 

All I can say is this: once the changes are made they are final, especially in this case. It's happened plenty of times before where a major change was made to a frame and everyone adapted, either by making a new use of the frame/weapon or ditching it entirely.

 

Here's my input; I don't care about excal changes because I found him totally lackluster even before he was considered to be changed. I found other frames more useful for the jobs I needed a warframe to do. I'm sorry, but I have no empathy for those who don't want excal to change.

 

 

.....and now I wait for people to harp at loki....

[Arlayn]

 

Thing of it is, Excalibur is a starting Warframe. You can keep using him if you want to, but, the game is designed for you to progress past your starter Warframe. I can personally make Excalibur work just fine on higher end stuff. His skill are all still useful, even on T3 Void stuff (I don't do much T4). The fact that they're making him any what better is a bonus. Radial Javelin's limitations being removed is a major buff in comparison. Radial Blind is only getting a minor nerf, not a huge one. People are over reacting.

 

problem is THAT IS A LIE... None of the warframes are made in Tiers (I wanted that for so long for warframes to be made avaliable at higher mastery ranks, and being far superior then warframes on lower Mastery ranks. Go DE for ignoring the usefulness of Mastery ranks) However Warframes do not work in Tiers. They are all equally as strong as the other. Plus Loki used to be starter, and Volt was pulled from being starter, and Mag was added into starter., and Volt was put back into starter. I don't think it matters. Both Volt, and Loki are VERY advanced warframes that require alot of veteran skill though because they die quite easily. If anything the so called warframes we are supposed to upgrade to either become weaker, and more useless, or simply unlikably hard to use(Like Trinity... still hate that warframe)

[tocorro]

 

Thing of it is, Excalibur is a starting Warframe. You can keep using him if you want to, but, the game is designed for you to progress past your starter Warframe. I can personally make Excalibur work just fine on higher end stuff. His skill are all still useful, even on T3 Void stuff (I don't do much T4). The fact that they're making him any what better is a bonus. Radial Javelin's limitations being removed is a major buff in comparison. Radial Blind is only getting a minor nerf, not a huge one. People are over reacting.

 

 

Loki not long ago was a starter frame... If there is such a thing as starter frame. I'm doing fine with Volt and Mag skill sets on t3 and t4 - they have a lot of utility. Excal has just RB. Yeah you can slash dash to make some distance ... but You can get same results just coptering.

 

 

This.

 

All I can say is this: once the changes are made they are final, especially in this case. It's happened plenty of times before where a major change was made to a frame and everyone adapted, either by making a new use of the frame/weapon or ditching it entirely.

 

Here's my input; I don't care about excal changes because I found him totally lackluster even before he was considered to be changed. I found other frames more useful for the jobs I needed a warframe to do. I'm sorry, but I have no empathy for those who don't want excal to change.

 

 

.....and now I wait for people to harp at loki....

 

 

I'm wondering WHY do people that don't care and/or don't play Excalibur at all are so full of venom. You find it enjoyable to ruin the fun of other players ?

I'm actually playing him, many more players use him too. We want the frame that we like play to be treated fairly and equally, so we are voicing our concerns, and our ideas how to tweak him.

If You don't care, because You are not using him, then why there are so many posts you wrote concerning this topic?

Edited October 5, 2014 by tocorro

[Oizen]

He shall join Frost in the pool of "Ruined Fixed by DE" content of this game.

[Eyeless]

 I found him totally lackluster even before he was considered to be changed.

 

You found him lackluster because again, he is a very lackluster frame in terms of all the other cool things most other frames are able to do, but why does that mean the community shouldn't strive to see him improved? He is the flagship frame after all.

 

 

Even with him as my main, I agree in his lackingness compared to the majority of other frames. 

 

This is likely all due to him being the first frame DE designed for this game. His abilities got the job done in Closed/Early Open Beta, but things in the game have changed while Excalibur and his outdated kit just stand frozen in time, and as the frames evolve and their powers get more extreme, here we have his.

 

Two of them don't scale well at all, he has very basic mobility, and in the end his only true universal utility is in an AoE stun, and that's it. 

 

 

 

I think if DE had gone out of their way to address this issue way earlier there wouldn't be so much animosity towards this frame. He feels so outdated compared to every other frame, if anything, we're in dire need of an Exalibur 2.5

Edited October 5, 2014 by Hastur609

[SergeiTheBeast]

The thing about Radial Blind is It was never "ridiculously overpowered" It was just his ONLY ABILITY WITH UTILITY and THAT Is why people built him to be a one trick pony. Sure once the forma and potatoes are invested, and the mods are ranked up. Yeah, then the ability becomes OP. But on it's own, it's an okay ability. "BUT IT GOES THROUGH WALLS! THATS NOT FAIR!" Mirage's disco ball comes to mind and it does the exact same thing as RB.

 

>_>  Theres plenty of abilities that go through walls in this game. I'll grant you the fact that those are ultimates though.

 

Excalibur is a pitiful example of a frame. He is NOT a starter frame. The frames aren't designed in tiers, they never were. Every frame should be viable. The problem with excalibur is His only utility ability (and utility is king in this game, we've all agreed on this) is radial blind. Slash dash is a low damage manuverability power. RB (no description needed) Super jump. useless. This game has so many tight cramped corridors that I've never used it except in the FEW tilesets that have a secret area I wanted to get to, only to bust open a chest and jump right back down. The skill has no reward for using it or building for it right now. Sure the changes they said in the stream might make it useful but IMO, it should have been trashed long ago. Radial Jav.  So is this an ult or a joke? Was his name originally Excalijester? The damage it does now and even later after the "changes" DE intends will not scale enough for it to matter. It needs some sort of utility. I saw someone suggest that any mob hit by it getting knocked back and pinned to a wall for a short period of time (minus bosses of course for obvious reasons) and I thought "Wow, that's actually a good idea to make that skill useful. I'll be sure to watch the devs COMPLETELY ignore it"  I've seen tons of useful ideas on how to make him viable. All ignored for him to be nerfd. As a Former Ultima online player (Google it. you'll see what I mean after you read this) OVER NERFING KILLS GAMES.  I understand we need balance, thats fine. There comes a point where you go too far though, and then ruin it. So you want to take away RB's ability to go through walls and make it LOS? I don't think thats unreasonable but first and foremost, you guys REALLY work all the bugs out of that system. When the "Change" was "accidentally included" I saw some **** poor examples of LOS. Knee high cover=safe, Standing next to or behind another enemy=safe, being in mid slam animation for heavy gunner Grineers=safe.  Fix that first, and I'll GLADLY accept the LOS change. And with that change I expect Mirages Disco ball to get hit with LOS too. Since it's essentially the same ability with a damage function added on to it. Oh did i mention that the damaging lasers from it go through walls too? hmm, just making sure.

 

For those who claim no ability should be able to go through walls. MOST not all I'll be honest there, of those abilities are ULTS. They are supposed to be strong. Stomp is basically an earthshattering tremor that disrupts time. There are enemies that are immune or basically negate this stun and only take the damage, which isn't that much really once you get past low/early levels. Bladestorm will go through corridors and into another room, i've seen it, i've done it. WOF from Ember does it but only if it's modded for range. RD, etc... I could go on and on.

 

Sidenote: Using logic in a game about space ninjas. Sit there and think about that for a while. Go on, i'll wait.

 

The CORE problem here is Excalibur just isn't viable without utility. And he's only good for RB as it stands now.

 

 

I won't pass any true judgement until the change hits but I'll be honest, I don't expect anything good to come from it. Will I be wrong and pleasantly surprised? My, I hope so. You don't punish your player base for finding something good and using it. 

 

And let me be clear, i'm not attacking the DEV's here or ANYONE or their play style, but have some respect and acknowledge that everyone plays differently and they play that way because they enjoy it.

 

/rant

Edited October 5, 2014 by SergeiTheBeast

[Eric1738]

yes like others said we dont know the change exactly yet, but i incline to believe it will be a huge nerf. because remember frost. rebalance=nerf in DE's dictionary

Edited October 5, 2014 by Eric1738

[vaugahn]

rebalance=nerf and buff in DE's dictionary

 

FTFY. Both buffs and nerfs are needed to try and balance something. Some things need to get nerfed, like radial blind. Some things need to get buffed, like slash dash and radial javelin. Though the degree of said nerfs and buffs is up for debate, let's try and leave the whole "devs are incompetent" attitude out of that discussion. 

[Thaumatos]

You don't even know what the actual changes will be; DE only mentioned ideas. Just wait until it comes out.

And then when what Scott said comes out, you can stop posting.

 

We all know this story.  "Wait and see" becomes "Here it is."

Edited October 5, 2014 by Thaumatos

[Judgebanks]

My money is on Excalibur being a better version of Ash, solely because of Arcane Pendragon.

 

That is assuming that his Javelins get finisher damage.

[Eyeless]

My money is on Excalibur being a better version of Ash, solely because of Arcane Pendragon.

 

That is assuming that his Javelins get finisher damage.

 

Finisher damage Javs would be amazing and definitely worth it as a damage ult in that case. 

[tocorro]

And then when what Scott said comes out, you can stop posting.

 

We all know this story.  "Wait and see" becomes "Here it is."

 

Exactly. If they "think" about something then when it is introduced in most cases it is very close to what they said with little change, or totally the same. 

If we want proper balance, we must pray DE hears us now, because it would take months to revisit poor Excal and "fix" him again - there will be other projects to venture, other frames to rebalance etc.

 

EDIT:

I wonder how the changes are tested, anyone knows ? If it's inside dev build in the "square" rooms in which you can spawn enemies, or in actual mission against 30-40 lvl enemies (my ideal testing would be in an endless mission to know limitations of frame powers) ?

 

EDIT 2:

Imagine this : Excal is like a pickup truck with 4x4 drive and a stock engine, and he has to race against sports cars (other frames with utility in their skills). As he is now he has no chance of winning straight on or even be on par with them, so we do the only thing available to us, taking advantage of the 4x4 drive and cut through the corn fields straight to finish line. 

Now then, the discussed in devstream "ideas" of changes are like : giving him a new paint job, tinted windows, new rims and a spoiler ... and taking his 4x4, leaving only FWD (it will still somewhat work in terrain, but not as good).

He still won't stand a chance. He needs new engine and a tunning ! ;) There is no point in holding tight to his old concpet of skills.

Edited October 5, 2014 by tocorro

[R34LM]

If You don't care, because You are not using him, then why there are so many posts you wrote concerning this topic?

Because I'm getting sick of people complaining because it is considered a terrible thing that radial blind can't go through walls. Pure and simple.

[tocorro]

Because I'm getting sick of people complaining because it is considered a terrible thing that radial blind can't go through walls. Pure and simple.

And You missed out the point where most of the "opposite" side wants a rework of his skills to be more utility based ? Like Super jump as empowering skill, and Radial Javelins actually pin enemies to walls for a brief moment to immobilize them. I don't know if You noticed but none here was saying "leave radial blind as it is". We want to use this opportunity to get him a rework in skills. Why crippling our efforts ?

[R34LM]

And You missed out the point where most of the "opposite" side wants a rework of his skills to be more utility based ? Like Super jump as empowering skill, and Radial Javelins actually pin enemies to walls for a brief moment to immobilize them. I don't know if You noticed but none here was saying "leave radial blind as it is". We want to use this opportunity to get him a rework in skills. Why crippling our efforts ?

Keep in mind that I have no issue with Excal having more utility. That, of course, would benefit him greatly. But what I don't approve is where that branches from, the fact that some don't want radial blind to be touched. This was much more prominent during the outrage in the past, but I still see it here and there.

 

In my honest opinion, sometimes, by the way DE is going with it, I feel that Excalibur is made to be a stepping stone to higher things. Weapons are the exact same way; you have a few weapons that are good for were you are but moreso help to get you to the next tier of weapon, such as Grataka to Soma, as a common example. It is arguable that a tier system doesn't exist in Warframe, but it does. Some weapons are just better than others.

 

This is much less acceptable to Warframes simply because they have way more to them than just how and how much you deal damage. When I said Excalibur was lackluster, I meant that I simply found other Warframes that do better. In terms of radial blind, Chaos has extra effect and Invisibility is more reliable. He was my starting frame, and I am glad that I had him to start me off in the game. But he simply just did not make the cut for me.

 

There are a lot of Excalibro fans out there, I get that. But that's the only thing making the transition harder.

Edited October 5, 2014 by R34LM