Product Differentiation Between Weapons Of The Same Categories (At The Start)

[Renegade343]

Hello all, 

 

This thread will be detailing a small general suggestion to make weapons be a viable choice against each other from the get-go. The content is below: 

 

Around every week or so (sometimes a bit longer), DE(L) creates a new weapon for players to use. Now, that is not a bad thing (and sometimes, the weapon is fun to play around with too!), but most of the time, there is not really much difference between new weapons and old weapons of the same category, as most, if not all, of the weapons, both old and new, in the same category are so similar that it is very difficult to separate them (e.g.: . 

 

While there has been suggestions to personally customise weapons to make them act the way the player wants them to, these suggestions are made under the assumption that said player has already got these weapons, and would still have the same problem of players still gravitating towards the most powerful weapon of a category (since there is no incentive to craft other weapons other than the most powerful one if other weapons in the same category were almost the same in function as the most powerful weapon [in terms of stats]). Also, while DE(L) has started to explore the depths of vertical expansion with weapons (Lato to Bolto, Latron to Tiberon etc.) (a form of extension strategies seen in businesses), those weapons still feel a bit generic within their specified categories, and does not make itself different from other weapons in the same category. 

 

Thus, my suggestion is to make different weapons in the same category be highly differentiable from the start. For instance, with the Kogake and the Obex (and people will most often go towards the Kogake since it is more powerful than the Obex in almost every way), the Obex can make itself differentiable from the Kogake from making its block attack be unique by absorbing bullets (and reduced stamina consumption), then using the amount of absorbed bullets to deal extra damage, making it an aggressive-defensive weapon, while the Kogake will be a faster, offensive-orientated weapon, meaning both sparring weapons fill a different, unique niche, and would provide actual choice for players at the start, when they look at both sparring weapons and decide which one to use.  

 

This thread is not saying that vertical expansion of weapons is bad (in fact, it is a good way of player progression), but what the current weapons do lack now is good horizontal expansion. While weapons of the same categories can have general similarities that define said category (e.g.: The burst fire category will have weapons that shoot a set amount of bullets each button press), making each weapon in the same category different from each other will create actual choices for players instead of choosing the most powerful weapon because of stats. 

 

In conclusion, while the addition of new weapons (almost) every week is welcomed, product differentiation for those new weapons must be considered and taken into account while making them, so that they can fill different, distinct roles in its category. 

 

Please provide constructive criticism and feedback to this thread.

 

Renegade343

[Somedude1000]

Personally I've always believed there are only small stat differences to make players consider how each weapon would handle different situations in a split second

[Renegade343]

Personally I've always believed there are only small stat differences to make players consider how each weapon would handle different situations in a split second

While that does play into account, the role it does is rather small and insignificant. 

[Somedude1000]

 

Personally I've always believed there are only small stat differences to make players consider how each weapon would handle different situations in a split second

While that does play into account, the role it does is rather small and insignificant.

 

With that in mind, weapons at the moment could simply be different because of the looks and personal preference. While they may be similar atht he start,, DE is counting on people to forma their weapons, with certain ones being predisposed to certain  forma pathways. Basically, while the differences are small at the beginning, the devs want us to go down and invest time and effort to make them different after a certain amount of time. 

 

Ie take weapon x with 35 puncture and 42 slash, and weapon y with 42 puncture and 32 slash, while both are similar ish at first, x will be formad toward the 150% slash dmg bonus, while y will be formad toward the puncture bonus, so that each weapon is effective vs enemies that have weaknesses to slash and puncture respectively.

 

Weapons are made similar at the start so that we can make them change the way we like,. if they were too different, there would be less incentive to go down progress and forma lines toward customizing them the way we like.

[fishworshipper]

 

 

Personally I've always believed there are only small stat differences to make players consider how each weapon would handle different situations in a split second

While that does play into account, the role it does is rather small and insignificant.

 

With that in mind, weapons at the moment could simply be different because of the looks and personal preference. While they may be similar atht he start,, DE is counting on people to forma their weapons, with certain ones being predisposed to certain  forma pathways. Basically, while the differences are small at the beginning, the devs want us to go down and invest time and effort to make them different after a certain amount of time. 

 

Ie take weapon x with 35 puncture and 42 slash, and weapon y with 42 puncture and 32 slash, while both are similar ish at first, x will be formad toward the 150% slash dmg bonus, while y will be formad toward the puncture bonus, so that each weapon is effective vs enemies that have weaknesses to slash and puncture respectively.

 

Weapons are made similar at the start so that we can make them change the way we like,. if they were too different, there would be less incentive to go down progress and forma lines toward customizing them the way we like.

Though your way of thinking is not incorrect, some more variance in the actual mechanics of each weapon would do more good than harm, as far as I see it. While small stat differences are good for differentiating gameplay and allowing players to customize their weapons, a problem rises when every melee weapon is statistically similar to any other melee weapon of the same 'genre' and lacks any mechanical uniqueness.

Edited October 7, 2014 by fishworshipper

[Renegade343]

 

 

Personally I've always believed there are only small stat differences to make players consider how each weapon would handle different situations in a split second

While that does play into account, the role it does is rather small and insignificant.

 

With that in mind, weapons at the moment could simply be different because of the looks and personal preference. While they may be similar atht he start,, DE is counting on people to forma their weapons, with certain ones being predisposed to certain  forma pathways. Basically, while the differences are small at the beginning, the devs want us to go down and invest time and effort to make them different after a certain amount of time. 

 

Ie take weapon x with 35 puncture and 42 slash, and weapon y with 42 puncture and 32 slash, while both are similar ish at first, x will be formad toward the 150% slash dmg bonus, while y will be formad toward the puncture bonus, so that each weapon is effective vs enemies that have weaknesses to slash and puncture respectively.

 

Weapons are made similar at the start so that we can make them change the way we like,. if they were too different, there would be less incentive to go down progress and forma lines toward customizing them the way we like.

However, the weapons we have right now are sometimes too similar with each other, which means players will gravitate towards the one that can deliver the highest DPS, status chance etc.. I am not saying to make them 'too different', but to make them differentiable from each other in a mechanism or two (like the Obex blocking mechanic tweak), so that players have better, more equal choices at the start. 

[Somedude1000]

 

 

 

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Melee weapons were all changed to be similar in melee 2.0 to prevent disparity between the types of melee weapons I believe, but i agree that we do need some sort of extra incentive to play weapon x rather than y other than "after I forma this it'll be a crit machine / status maniac / slash hurricane" etc

Edited October 7, 2014 by Somedude1000

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

 

 

 

Personally I've always believed there are only small stat differences to make players consider how each weapon would handle different situations in a split second

While that does play into account, the role it does is rather small and insignificant.

 

With that in mind, weapons at the moment could simply be different because of the looks and personal preference. While they may be similar atht he start,, DE is counting on people to forma their weapons, with certain ones being predisposed to certain  forma pathways. Basically, while the differences are small at the beginning, the devs want us to go down and invest time and effort to make them different after a certain amount of time. 

 

Ie take weapon x with 35 puncture and 42 slash, and weapon y with 42 puncture and 32 slash, while both are similar ish at first, x will be formad toward the 150% slash dmg bonus, while y will be formad toward the puncture bonus, so that each weapon is effective vs enemies that have weaknesses to slash and puncture respectively.

 

Weapons are made similar at the start so that we can make them change the way we like,. if they were too different, there would be less incentive to go down progress and forma lines toward customizing them the way we like.

However, the weapons we have right now are sometimes too similar with each other, which means players will gravitate towards the one that can deliver the highest DPS, status chance etc.. I am not saying to make them 'too different', but to make them differentiable from each other in a mechanism or two (like the Obex blocking mechanic tweak), so that players have better, more equal choices at the start. 

 

 

I like this thought, but your example is actually of two weapons that have this differentiation already. The Kogake has higher damage, while the Obex has a gigantic knockdown radius, and can do electric damage on knockdown attacks.

[Renegade343]

I like this thought, but your example is actually of two weapons that have this differentiation already. The Kogake has higher damage, while the Obex has a gigantic knockdown radius, and can do electric damage on knockdown attacks.

Not really much anymore. 

 

The Kogake also has a knockdown radius similar to the Obex now. The only thing going for the Obex is that Electrical damage on Slam attacks, but that means enemies sometimes have the Electric stun animation instead of the ragdolling, which equates to not being able to perform Ground Finishers with the Obex at times with the Slam Attack. 

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

 

I like this thought, but your example is actually of two weapons that have this differentiation already. The Kogake has higher damage, while the Obex has a gigantic knockdown radius, and can do electric damage on knockdown attacks.

Not really much anymore. 

 

The Kogake also has a knockdown radius similar to the Obex now. The only thing going for the Obex is that Electrical damage on Slam attacks, but that means enemies sometimes have the Electric stun animation instead of the ragdolling, which equates to not being able to perform Ground Finishers with the Obex at times with the Slam Attack. 

 

 

My mistake. Then I guess the two used to be a good example...