A Few Warframe Power Tweaks For Pvp

[Renegade343]

Hello all, 

 

This thread will detail some tweaks to certain Warframe powers within PVP so that they are still powerful, but more fairer to enemy players. The list is below: 

 

Ash (Bladestorm): 

Many threads have talked about this ability, saying that it is rather overpowered in PVP due to its high damage and long stun without any skill-based way to retaliate, while the Ash using it is basically invincible. While there are talks of using melee to parry it, the swap speed is too long, and the stun will override the swap animation if the targeted player is not equipping his/her melee weapon. Also, while the damage decrease is welcomed by some, it only serves as a weak solution to fix the problem. Thus, a few suggestions are raised to make Bladestorm dangerous but fair: 

 

- Damage increased to 0.45x, with number of times being hit being the same (and maybe slightly faster).

- Any targeted players are slowed down to 70% of their original speed (this means the targeted players will perform actions slower), but can still perform actions (shooting, reloading etc.). This will replace the stun animation. This also means targeted players can still be damaged by other enemies and players. 

- Rolling only decreases the damage dealt by a single attack of Bladestorm against a targeted player by 25%, as opposed to 95% damage reduction when rolling. 

- The Ash casting Bladestorm can be shot down to bleedout state, but the Ash will have a further 50% damage reduction (meaning he takes 25% damage during his Bladestorm), and has a 50% chance of resisting a status effect (when it applies to him). The Ash will be immune to knockdown. 

- If a targeted player survives a round of Bladestorm, then he/she cannot be targeted by any Bladestorm abilities for five seconds. 

- If a targeted player equips a melee weapon and holds the Block button, this will decrease the damage dealt by a single attack of Bladestorm against said player by 35%.

 

With these changes, this would make Bladestorm be more dangerous in terms of damage dealt and slowdown utility (i.e.: Offensive-orientated ability with a side of support), while allowing targeted players to have a chance to act against it.

 

Valkyr (Hysteria): 

Valkyr's Hysteria makes her invincible at the cost of being restricted to melee. While this is not a bad thing in PVE, it does make it unfair in PVP simply for her invulnerability, meaning she could shut down objectives without any worry about being taken down once she activates Hysteria. While the duration decrease is accepted by some, it does make her ability almost worthless, as the duration of Hysteria is too short and costly for the energy spent. Thus, a few suggestions are made to make Valkyr be fearful with her Hysteria, but still be able to be taken down with skill (or maybe a lot of bullets): 

 

- Duration reverted to PVE durations. 

- When activated, Valkyr will have a further 85% damage reduction (meaning she takes 7.5% damage during her Hysteria), be immune to status effects, and be immune to knockdown abilities. 

- Damage increased slightly compared to its PVE damage values (by around 5.0%).

 

With these changes, this would make Hysteria be more viable in PVP, and can make a skilled Valkyr player a force to be reckoned with, while skilled enemy players can take her down if possible.

 

Vauban (All of his abilities): 

Vauban's abilities allow him to basically shut down just about everything, from control consoles, to chokepoints, and sometimes even safe rooms for defenders (granted, that includes almost every radial ability, so that would need a general fix for that). There has been discussions about being able to shoot down the traps that he casts, and so, based on that, a few suggestions are raised to make Vauban's abilities be fair: 

 

- Tesla: 500/750/1000/1250 pure hitpoints, with a 15% damage reduction to it (shoot the grenade to damage it).

- Bounce: 800/1200/1600/2000 pure hitpoints, with a 25% damage reduction to it (shoot the pad to damage it).

- Bastille: 600/1000/1400/1800 pure hitpoints, with a 15% damage reduction to it (shoot the grenade to damage it) (and not to mention the slowdown after leaving the Bastille's area of effect needs a fix).

- Vortex: 700/1100/1500/1900 pure hitpoints, with a 10% damage reduction to it (shoot the grenade to damage it).

- If the Vauban has already placed a few traps, and dies, all of his traps are deactivated.

 

With these changes, this will allow Vauban to still be powerful, but enemy players can have a chance to counteract these abilities.

 

Trinity (Energy Vampire)

Trinity's Energy Vampire allows her to target an enemy (or enemy player), then have energy given to her and her allies in radial pulses, and when said targeted enemy (or player) dies, all the remaining energy is dispersed to all ally players within range. While this is a good skill in PVE, it sometimes gets out of control in PVP, especially with cooperation (but that is [somewhat] fine, since the players have planned beforehand!) and being able to target downed players, which basically equals free energy. Also, with the enemies dropping energy orbs like rain, it does make Energy Vampire a bit overpowered in the sense that Trinity can constantly recast it, provided if there is a constant supply of enemies killed (but that is not as much of a significant factor). Thus, to make this ability slightly fairer, the suggestions are below: 

 

- Pulses give 7/10.5/14/17.5 energy for each pulse. 

- Downed players cannot be targeted. 

- If a player goes into bleedout mode while targeted by Energy Vampire, Energy Vampire will release one last pulse of energy, but it will give half the remaining energy to all ally players within range.

 

With these changes, it will make Energy Vampire still powerful, but also more fairer and balanced in Dark Sectors PVP.

 

Trinity (Link): 

Trinity's Link allows her to take less damage, and redirect damage to, unsurprisingly, linked enemies (and linked enemies are highlighted with an energy line from them to Trinity). That is not a bad skill as such (and somewhat balanced with the hard cap of enemies linked), but in PVP, it has the problem where it can linked downed players at times (which means basically, the downed players get the shaft [and from a lot of abilities too]), and does feel a tad bit overpowered at times as well (granted, it may be just the Efficiency mods being the devil here). Taking its advantages and justifications into account, a few suggestions are made to balance Link for PVP: 

 

- Damage resistance when casting link is 50%/57.5%/65%/72.5% (maybe affected by Power Strength for PVP?).

- Reflects 80% damage to enemies (which is still a heck of a lot) (maybe affected by Power Strength for PVP [with a maximum of 100% damage reflected]?).

- Downed players cannot be Linked (for obvious reasons). 

- Slightly reduced duration to 5/6.5/8/9.5 OR (Subject to debate) drains energy over time, with 75 Energy for activation, and drains 4/6/8/10 energy per second.

- (Not sure if it would work) Enemy players meleeing the energy link line between an enemy and a Trinity will sever the link between

said enemy and the Trinity.

- Self-detonations (i.e.: Trinity with Link detonating an Ogris/Penta grenade under herself) will not transfer damage to linked enemies, and the Trinity will receive the full damage. This is to prevent cheap tactics with the Link + Explosives combo often seen in PVE to battle AI enemies.

 

With these changes, Link would still be a powerful ability for Trinity, while making it be fairer and balanced for PVP.

 

Limbo (Rift/Material plane): 

 

Limbo is a new Warframe in U15, with the ability to go between the real plane and the imaginary (Rift) plane. This is a pretty nice mechanic for PVE, but when transferred to PVP, it makes it be rather overpowered for a few reasons: 

 

1. Limbo is invincible in Rift Walk (and can do just about anything [besides killing enemies and picking up things in the real plane] without care of being killed).

2. Enemy players cannot do anything when they are in the Rift Plane, and can be stuck there for a minute or so. 

 

So, to fix this, the interaction between the imaginary and real plane will be changed for PVP as thus: 

 

- Shooting at an enemy in the other plane will make the enemy take 10.0% of the damage of the weapon. 

- Shooting at an enemy in the other plane will have the enemy receive a 50% of resisting a status effect. 

- If a Magnetic status effect is applied to an enemy in another plane, then the remaining duration that the enemy will be in the Rift will be halved. 

- Any players in the Rift that is interacting with the hackable barriers (the first and second stage) will have its animation time slowed by a half (for fairness), as well as having the reviving speed cut down to three-quarters the original speed.

- Enemy players who are casted into the Rift by Banish will be in the Rift with duration three-quarters of the PVE version. 

- A cool-down of 0.5s when Limbo exits Rift Walk.

 

With these changes, this would allow Limbo to still be a powerful Warframe in PVP, while still being fair and balanced for skilled play.

 

Please note that this is a working list, and will expand over time.

 

Please take the time to read this thread, and provide any constructive criticism and feedback.

 

Renegade343

Edited November 3, 2014 by Renegade343

[Rakshal]

I like these ideas.

[elfkinn]

The only way pvp will be fair is if they make it so people have to choose between mk1weps and starting frames, during missions

[varto]

dont forget rhino iron skin  and stomb

[Rorgal_Sina]

Why has no one suggested turning Bladestorm into something similar like M Prime? The range would be clearly visible in a circle around Ash that will slowly increase distance over time based on duration. Full damage and efficiency builds will now have a downside. Now you have a chance to avoid Bladestorm.

[Renegade343]

Why has no one suggested turning Bladestorm into something similar like M Prime? The range would be clearly visible in a circle around Ash that will slowly increase distance over time based on duration. Full damage and efficiency builds will now have a downside. Now you have a chance to avoid Bladestorm.

Because that would make it too slow for Ash to be used effectively apart from Smoke Screen (and maybe Shruiken). I see the value of Bladestorm as a quick, radial damage dealer (after all, that is what makes Ash unique in PVP), but as of its current iteration, it has too many benefits to it. 

[Rorgal_Sina]

 

Why has no one suggested turning Bladestorm into something similar like M Prime? The range would be clearly visible in a circle around Ash that will slowly increase distance over time based on duration. Full damage and efficiency builds will now have a downside. Now you have a chance to avoid Bladestorm.

Because that would make it too slow for Ash to be used effectively apart from Smoke Screen (and maybe Shruiken). I see the value of Bladestorm as a quick, radial damage dealer (after all, that is what makes Ash unique in PVP), but as of its current iteration, it has too many benefits to it. 

 

It can work if DE succeeds in tweaking the speed of the radius increase.

[Renegade343]

It can work if DE succeeds in tweaking the speed of the radius increase.

If we were to make it quick to be comparable to its original speed (in order to fit his theme as a ninja and his swift-ish abilities), we might as well just let this one be. 

 

Bladestorm is designed to clear out an area (or at least severely weaken an area) quickly and swiftly. By having the radial expansion, you will need it to be very quick in order to keep this design, and it would just be less hassle to keep its original iteration of targeting. However, as it can be seen that bringing most PVE mechanics to PVP makes it unfair, I decided to allow players to roll and parry to decrease the effectiveness of the attacks (and also damage the Ash if need be), as well as a targeting cooldown, while upping the damage and keeping the targeting mechanism, so that it does not feel as jarring to new players entering from PVE to PVP, while allowing more experienced players to have a chance to counteract or reduce the effectiveness of that when targeted. 

[RebornsAlmark]

Great ideas, any invincibility abilities in PvP should probably get overhauled. This includes Absorb (which should probably be changed to function similar to your suggested Valkyr Hysteria change, instead of invincibility it should give a high damage reduction such as 75-90%).

Edited October 9, 2014 by RebornsAlmark

[Renegade343]

Added some more Warframe abilities tweaks.

[Renegade343]

Added Limbo Warframe tweaks.