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Concerned For Excalibur


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"What’s the deal with Excalibur Rebalance?

 

Although our changes to Excalibur were not planned for release we’ve gone over his powers a lot more, and have since made a few other adjustments. Radial Blind’s changes are coming back, but his rays of light will no longer mysteriously penetrate through all solid objects. Instead they’ll be blocked by...well...anything that light normally couldn’t pass through.

We’ve also made given Super Jump a small radial stun, plus mid-air invisibility. Radial Javelin will now spawn closer to its targets instead of permeating out from Excalibur, and has also had its target limit removed. As with any work in project these adjustments are definitely still subject to change, but we’ll make sure to give you the full breakdown as we get closer to seeing his new and improved attacks go live." 

 

Link~


 

 

With U15 literally right around the corner, I can't help but feel a certain sense of dread for the future for what has been among my few favorite frames. 

 

Radial Blind is fine, but it's the other three powers that worry me. 

 

Slash Dash wasn't mentioned at all, and it has three clones of it that are superior in every way. 

(Rhino Charge, Tail Wind, Tidal Surge) 

 

Super Jump, can you imagine trying to use this in a lot of levels? More of a 'Super Concussion' because I can imagine players frantically banging their heads into the ceiling for a quick and easy short-range stun to try and drop even a little enemy aggro as high level enemies fill them with holes. 

 

Radial Javelin is simply getting its target cap removed with some consistency given to the way it targets enemies. That's it though. It's still simply a flat damage ult that sees severe fall off against anything past level 30 and barely gets past 40 with Blind Rage, if even. 

 

There have been numerous very good threads for perhaps over a year now listing fantastic ideas to rework these abilities and to make Excalibur relevant in the face of all these newer frames, but I don't see any of this present in these proposed changes. 

 

Things like Blatant Fool's idea to make Radial Javelin conjure a bunch of swirling blades you could target individual enemies with as they spun around you, or use like normal javs, or even just adding punch-through and finisher damage to the Javelins!

 

Turning Super Jump into an overcharge mechanic that physically enhanced Excalibur so he could run faster, jump higher, gain stamina and melee damage increases, and possibly gain a defensive buff or two, that's a lot more practical than banging your head on a wall for a small stun that Radial Blind does better in every way. 

 

Heck, Slash Dash could simply count towards your combo meter or at least increase its duration for every enemy struck. Or allow you to chain it between enemies if the enemy struck doesn't die, allowing for quick successive dashes across the field as a fancy escape maneuver. 

 

Something...

 

A goldmine of ideas on this forum for months now, but this upcoming, oh so small buff, I don't know guys. I'm not feeling confident about this at all. 

 

There's even been this thread up for a few days now

 


 

That initially criticizes the nerfing of Radial Blind but goes on to list some ideas from numerous players that'd be far more useful than what we're likely to get. 

 

Radial Blind getting nerfed isn't the problem though, it's Excalibur getting too little for the rest of his abilities in return from DE's own proposed and likely impending buff that has me concerned for this game's Flagship Frame. 
Edited by Hastur609
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I really can't udnerstand why they nerf radial blidn but ok thats the way things are. But i expect then that they nerf other abilities the same way. For Example Mirages Discoball has the exact same effect when exploding as Radial Blind. If that still goes throguh walls...

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Can we please wait until the changes actually hit before we start all the doom and gloom? It's fine to voice your wariness but come on. So far every update to each warframe has rebalanced them in a way that still makes them viable or even MORE viable than before. I have very little doubt Excalibur's update won't be any different.

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Can we please wait until the changes actually hit before we start all the doom and gloom? It's fine to voice your wariness but come on. So far every update to each warframe has rebalanced them in a way that still makes them viable or even MORE viable than before. I have very little doubt Excalibur's update won't be any different.

 

Well the Radial Blind change was already in the game so we pretty much know what is going to happen. And it was bad.

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Can we please wait until the changes actually hit before we start all the doom and gloom? It's fine to voice your wariness but come on. So far every update to each warframe has rebalanced them in a way that still makes them viable or even MORE viable than before. I have very little doubt Excalibur's update won't be any different.

 

Would you be optimistic if the update is only a day away with the changes they have proposed? Whenever they post these changes, even a full month early, what we see is always what we get, and it takes several months just for that frame to get revisited if the buffs aren't good enough no matter how much of an uproar the forum community makes. 

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Of course radial blind  should affect people based on line of sight, a blinding source of light can't blind anyone if a wall is in-between or there's no surface reflecting it. But putting a number of targets... :p

 

Anyway, our poster boy looks outdated compared to newcomers that may have a replica of of his powers (Hydroid's surge). Even Loki got this...(Mirage's illusion completely destroy his decoy.)

 

Another frame that needs attention (and should soon get the Oberon treatment,hopefully) is Krokros,also known as the "press-3-dude". (far away from a necromancer,if you ask me!)

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Well the Radial Blind change was already in the game so we pretty much know what is going to happen. And it was bad.

 

If you had watched the livestreams since then, DE has stated constantly that the change to Radial Blind at the time was A: NOT intended and B: A TEST version. It's NOT going to be that buggy. they've answered this particular woe numerous times - look it up. I mean wow for people that are SO WORRIED about Excalibur being "ruined", quite a few of you, especially the OP, aren't even educated in what's going on.

Edited by SoulEchelon
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Can we please wait until the changes actually hit before we start all the doom and gloom? It's fine to voice your wariness but come on. So far every update to each warframe has rebalanced them in a way that still makes them viable or even MORE viable than before. I have very little doubt Excalibur's update won't be any different.

 

Do you remember the so-called Frost "rework"? The one that was supposed to make his other abilities good?

 

To this day, Snow Globe is still considered Frost's only good ability. It's certainly the only one that has any actual effect past mid levels.

 

And that is after his rework/buff.

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Its Frost allover again.

Because developers dont play the game at any high levels.

 

 

Too bad Frost is still viable at high levels, or your post would have been valid.

 

 

Do you remember the so-called Frost "rework"? The one that was supposed to make his other abilities good?

 

To this day, Snow Globe is still considered Frost's only good ability. It's certainly the only one that has any actual effect past mid levels.

 

And that is after his rework/buff.

 

Learn how to play Frost, please.

 

Edit: ugh why do I keep getting suckered into these QQ threads. I'm out. Continue to cry and moan and complain about something that doesn't even have an official post with stats and concrete changes yet.

Edited by SoulEchelon
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Alright Soul, keep throwing insults at everyone. *eye roll* The point of the thread wasn't even about the Radial Blind change, which I clearly stated I was fine with. It's the other minor changes I'm concerned about that as they are now, will still leave Excalibur entirely lackluster in comparison to most other frames, assuming these are the incoming changes. 

 

I have these concerns because DE has consistently released frames with kits that the community gave negative feedback on consistently before the initial release or when it came to the buffs/nerfs. 

 

Nekros and Oberon are glaring examples of this, but Oberon got a really good buff later on. Much later on though.

 

The point is, when DE says that incoming Warframe powers and abilities are subject to change when they propose what's coming up, it usually never does despite the feedback and giant list of ideas the forums pour in constantly, no matter how negative the feedback is. 

 

With that in mind, these upcoming Excal changes that we know of are entirely lackluster, which is why I am worried. 

 

I fully understand things can change and that I'll have to wait and see for what hits tomorrow. But DE has followed this trend rather closely which is the main reason this thread was made. 

Edited by Hastur609
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Too bad Frost is still viable at high levels, or your post would have been valid.

 

 

 

Learn how to play Frost, please.

 

Edit: ugh why do I keep getting suckered into these QQ threads. I'm out. Continue to cry and moan and complain about something that doesn't even have an official post with stats and concrete changes yet.

Some history: Frost was nerfed to the ground,  it was obvious even before the release of the changes that 3000 hp is nothing even for normal levels and the damage buff to his nuke is worth anything at normal levels only. Then after the community riot Globe was given armor rating and 4 sec immunity+ scaling from the damage absorbed. Then everyone found out they could use Avalanche for CC. But then CC was removed, nailing Frost coffin. Frost became one of the least played frames since and many who cared about him quit the game. 

Now the only use of Frost at high levels is to babysit the objective spamming Globe every 5 seconds to be 100% safe.  Thats what DEL achieved with the changes.

 

Ex will get what - an escape move and improvement to his nuke thats only good at low-mid levels (it wont kill even lvl15 heavies, unless they buff the damage too) And no word about removing the ridiculous post-cast animation of the ult that makes it very dangerous to use. While losing most of his CC  - becoming useless at highlevels (and not like he was popular anyway). 

 

Also Im tired of trying to get the message through - Excalibur nerf is completely unfair and has nothing to do with balance, several other frames have similar or better CC that can reach 60m with max range mods (Mirage even has exactly the same mechanics)  and a better toolkit overall, but only Ex is getting the nerfbat  because devs were made aware of his power after the Cryotic event (and if other frame was used they wouldn't touch Ex but nerfed the other frame instead?) They need some one who knows the game and everything about the frames abilities and mechanics to do the proper job. 

Edited by Monolake
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Its Frost allover again.

Because developers dont play the game at any high levels.

More like they don't balance the game around high level void.  They can keep introducing higher and higher tiers of void missions as the community demands, but that doesn't mean they'll put out weapons and frames to match those tiers as believe it or not, they're not really big on power creep either.  There will be some outstanding examples, like the Boltor Prime, but ultimately, they're not balancing warframes and weapons around use at the 50+ minute/wave 40+ mark in T3/T4.  At a guess, I'd say minute 20 and wave 15 or otherwise levels 35-38 (high end alerts, invasions, etc.) are their intended high end balancing point without being omfgwtffh? hard.  You got your full rotation, they gave you the tools to get there without breaking too much of a sweat, they're not concerned with item effectiveness beyond that point because everything after that is bonus for the price of the key.

Edited by Littleman88
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More like they don't balance the game around high level void.  They can keep introducing higher and higher tiers of void missions as the community demands, but that doesn't mean they'll put out weapons and frames to match those tiers as believe it or not, they're not really big on power creep either.  There will be some outstanding examples, like the Boltor Prime, but ultimately, they're not balancing warframes and weapons around use at the 50+ minute/wave 40+ mark in T3/T4.  At a guess, I'd say minute 20 and wave 15 or otherwise levels 35-38 (high end alerts, invasions, etc.) are their intended high end balancing point without being omfgwtffh? hard.  You got your full rotation, they gave you the tools to get there without breaking too much of a sweat, they're not concerned with item effectiveness beyond that point because everything after that is bonus for the price of the key.

I have to disagree with that, because they dont balance AT ALL.  Some frames can faceroll everyhting, others can barely scratch lvl30s.  ie Mag has infinitely scaling damage vs shields, Ash is good up to lvl~100 void (armor ignore), Nova AMD can be stacked for millions of damage. 

Top weapons with maxed mods are good up till lvl60-70 and make normal (sub lvl 30) a joke even without maxed modding.

If everything was balanced about lvl30-40 there wouldn't be any issue, disbalance comes from a huge disparity of power.

 

30 min T3S is lvl ~35, 60min is lvl ~100

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I am concerned for Excal as well... He's been my favorite frame for the longest time.  I hope DE gives him the love he deserves and balances him right rather than just nerfing him and making Super Jump a tiny bit better- I probably still won't use it since I can parkour to almost any area I would conceivably need to go.

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I still think they need to switch up excalibur and Ash. 

 

Excalibur is, in truth, the melee of the frames. Therefore Bladestorm would be a better idea for Excalibur.

 

And Ash? Well why not, as I stated in a previous thread, have it so that he does a Bomb of "Ash"? If you look up the effects of Ash from a volcano the effects are DEVESTATING and would make ash up to par with his name. Ash. 

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Yeah, I share the concern for Excals future. My trusted frame that I played 10X more then any other frame. I am currently going trough all my frames to see if there is something else I enjoy playing as much as Excal so I have something to fall back to if the changes prove to be bad. 

Edited by VikingoX
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I share your concerns.
 
Slash Dash deserves fix as much as other skills, (slash proc, combo counting, pass through enemies, etc.) anyway your idea seems good. 
 
Radial Blind should be seen as a blinding burst of energy, and not as a simple burst of light. In this way, if I use Radial Blind and the enemy / target is within the range of the ability, but in another room with the door closed, in other words if it is reachable only physically, RB doesn't work. But if the enemy / target is behind a corner and within the range of the ability, in other words if it is reachable by the explosion of blinding energy that I mentioned before, then Radial Blind works. In short Radial Blind become as a fire that propagates in a series of rooms connected to each other, but that is blocked by a fire door.
 
Super Jump: maybe the changes will be good, maybe not. We will see.
 

NEW ABILITY-Radial slash: excalibur makes a devastating attack 360 degree, strong enough to tear everything (same range and damage of Radial Javelin, but it would be better if it also partially scaled of the current melee weapon). It affects every enemy to its level in range. The enemies to a higher or lower level compared to excalibur are not affected Add a knockdown effect for those who are still alive.

 

PS: Excalibur is my favorite warframe...sigh

 

 

 

Edited by Deios-Ken
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Some history: Frost was nerfed to the ground,  it was obvious even before the release of the changes that 3000 hp is nothing even for normal levels and the damage buff to his nuke is worth anything at normal levels only. Then after the community riot Globe was given armor rating and 4 sec immunity+ scaling from the damage absorbed. Then everyone found out they could use Avalanche for CC. But then CC was removed, nailing Frost coffin. Frost became one of the least played frames since and many who cared about him quit the game. 

Now the only use of Frost at high levels is to babysit the objective spamming Globe every 5 seconds to be 100% safe.  Thats what DEL achieved with the changes.

 

As a Frost player from day 1, I can say that he has not been nerfed into the ground, and I have not left this game for any longer than a week.

 

On topic: I feel like there is a mindset among players that if a Warframe doesn't have one ability that outshines everything else in the game that frame is useless. While this is a bit of an exaggeration, it does hold some merit. Excalibur's abilities are all useful in different contexts. Slash Dash does reasonable damage at lower levels, has massive range with some duration modded and has invulnerability frames. Super Jump has zero cast time and is great for escaping sticky situations, especially when combined with slash dash. Radial Javelin does fall off at higher levels, but all pure damage abilities do. Radial Blind's merits are obvious.

 

He's not a melee juggernaut, he's not a cloaky backstabbing scumbag, he's not an AoE facemelter. He's a melee skirmisher with amazing mobility, a bit of utility, and enough damage to clear out the chafe. Excalibur is one of the only frames whose powerset can compliment any weapon loadout.

 

I'm rather excited for his changes.

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I have confidence in Scott. All of his reworks have ended in success; even when certain frames got nerfed, they always wound up at least feeling more dynamic.

I dont.

 

Of the changes I've seen very few frames remain viable after changes made to them and those that gained general buffs like Oberon don't compete nearly as well with other frames. If scott handles overall frame design as it relates to their balance then I really have less faith due to the issue of Utility creep.

 

I say do make noise about it, do comment as after changes like this go through subsequent changes that are not reversions never match the original usability of the frame.

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