Zero Suits And Stalker's Role In It - Facts And Speculations

[PsychedelicSnake]

It can in Titan A.E.

 

Besides we have never seen whats under the warframe. So what a Tenno really is still stands as a mystery, and they could very well be just about anything.

Sentient Bananas, obviously.

[RoboDoge]

It can in Titan A.E.

 

Besides we have never seen whats under the warframe. So what a Tenno really is still stands as a mystery, and they could very well be just about anything.

Whats under the Warframe shouldnt really matter, as Tenno are one with their suit. In my opinion i dont think that Tenno can remove Warframes as they are become symbiotic in some way.

 

Tenno is Warframe and Warframe is Tenno. Some kind of space magic fusion.

[Tesseract_The_Pariah]

Here's an example of a Zero Tech suit, by orokin standards.

 

Just imagine it vacuum sealed.

They had to use these because the Sentients interfered with technology.  They suck $&*^ compared to other combat suits at the time - which were probably like the Grineer combat suits, but better.

 

Here's an example of a percussion rifle.

 

Percussion rifle is the term for a rifle that uses shockwaves to propel a bullet.  This infers that the Orokin had much more advanced things by their time - and it'd been so long that they refer to all ballistic rifles as Percussion RIfles. 
 

Edited October 8, 2014 by Gaminus

[Othergrunty]

Not to sound rude or dismissive, but i think there is a critical problem with using the Stalker model as hint towards anything right now. Said problem being that the Stalker is old. Very old.

And i don't mean just in lore, i mean in the game's development. If i remember correctly the Stalker was allready in the game when it went Open Beta, maybe he was even allready around during closed beta. I actualy encountered him when he still only had a Braton Vandal and a Cronus as his weapons.

I wonder if some people had speculated back then that the Stalker created Vandal weapons? Ha ha ha.

 

This means that the Stalker in his current appearance (his weapons not included) has existed unchanged for a LONG time. Which puts his date of creation into what i could call "The Placeholder Age". The time in development when over two thirds of all content in Warframe was still placeholders or quickly improvised creations.

 

The time when Grineer had to use borrowed Corpus ships and Corpus had to use Grineer asteroids as space bases.

When Lancers and Crewmen alike were wielding Bratons as their main weapons or Shield Lancers and Troopers had to use weapons of the "Tenno scooom!"

The time a Burston and a Boltor looked identical.

The time when Captain Vor was just a red Flameblade and J-3 Golem existed as an oversized Charger.

Ah, The Placeholder Age, when Grineer could still speak english and their favorit tactic was "Combat Formation Bravo!"

 

I'm not trying to play down DE's efforts during that time (it actualy shows beautifully how far they have allready come since they went Open Beta), but it's kind of obvious that the Stalker's appearance was a quick job.

 

This means we can't exclude the possebility that at some point in nearby future DE will go and revisit the Stalker and give him a new model, trying to make it fit more towards his weapons. Though of course they might keep the current one because of the nice simplicity of the design.

 

Just something to consider.

[RoboDoge]

Not to sound rude or dismissive, but i think there is a critical problem with using the Stalker model as hint towards anything right now. Said problem being that the Stalker is old. Very old.

And i don't mean just in lore, i mean in the game's development. If i remember correctly the Stalker was allready in the game when it went Open Beta, maybe he was even allready around during closed beta. I actualy encountered him when he still only had a Braton Vandal and a Cronus as his weapons.

I wonder if some people had speculated back then that the Stalker created Vandal weapons? Ha ha ha.

 

This means that the Stalker in his current appearance (his weapons not included) has existed unchanged for a LONG time. Which puts his date of creation into what i could call "The Placeholder Age". The time in development when over two thirds of all content in Warframe was still placeholders or quickly improvised creations.

 

The time when Grineer had to use borrowed Corpus ships and Corpus had to use Grineer asteroids as space bases.

When Lancers and Crewmen alike were wielding Bratons as their main weapons or Shield Lancers and Troopers had to use weapons of the "Tenno scooom!"

The time a Burston and a Boltor looked identical.

The time when Captain Vor was just a red Flameblade and J-3 Golem existed as an oversized Charger.

Ah, The Placeholder Age, when Grineer could still speak english and their favorit tactic was "Combat Formation Bravo!"

 

I'm not trying to play down DE's efforts during that time (it actualy shows beautifully how far they have allready come since they went Open Beta), but it's kind of obvious that the Stalker's appearance was a quick job.

 

This means we can't exclude the possebility that at some point in nearby future DE will go and revisit the Stalker and give him a new model, trying to make it fit more towards his weapons. Though of course they might keep the current one because of the nice simplicity of the design.

 

Just something to consider.

IIRC Stalker is added in U6 or in U7. And that is pretty old in game terms.

[Arlayn]

Whats under the Warframe shouldnt really matter, as Tenno are one with their suit. In my opinion i dont think that Tenno can remove Warframes as they are become symbiotic in some way.

 

Tenno is Warframe and Warframe is Tenno. Some kind of space magic fusion.

Pretty sure a name has nothing to do with it. That is like saying Green Arrow is a man that must 24/7 hold a green arrow. Separating the two wouldn't kill him. Just as it wouldn't kill Peter to stop being spider-man infact in ultimate spider-man probably would have saved him.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Arlayn

[RoboDoge]

Pretty sure a name has nothing to do with it. That is like saying Green Arrow is a man that must 24/7 hold a green arrow. Separating the two wouldn't kill him. Just as it wouldn't kill Peter to stop being spider-man infact in ultimate spider-man probably would have saved him.

We can only speculate about what Tenno are really are and what are Warframes. DE isnt offering any clear lore and they are quite shady when they do offer us something.

[Arlayn]

We can only speculate about what Tenno are really are and what are Warframes. DE isnt offering any clear lore and they are quite shady when they do offer us something.

that is why we can't lead in any direction 100%. We can only speculate. They may not be attached to warframes, or they might be. There is no guarantee. At the rate we run DE will never introduce the truth or the mystery will be shattered. Who wants to end the fun?

[Sloan441]

Zero suits are zero tech suits. No computer support. Nothing to be exploited by the Sentients. They were the best armor the Orokin could provide under those restrictions. Warframes are something different--they're biologically based through the technocyte virus, therefore immune to Sentient meddling.

 

The percussion rifle statement is a bit confusing, since in firearms it usually implies muzzle-loading black powder guns, which is certainly not the case here. What it probably means are conventional cartridge firearms like we have now, just higher tech materials, but still fundamentally mechanical with conventional priming (not electronic) to prevent Sentient meddling.

 

The lore as it presently stands pretty much states the Tenno are human. Ember's lore entry is pretty adamant on this. Genetic manipulation is almost assured (we are talking the Orokin here) and cloning is implied, but DE hasn't made any definitive statements yet. The Tenno are obviously tied strongly to the void somehow, but we don't know how yet.

 

Vor's statements are so nebulous as to be worthless without some additional illumination. Same with the Stalker. They're interesting, but there's no corroboration elsewhere and neither is a disinterested observer. They have their own agendas.

[-Vane-]

People, i'm just working with what we have now, regardless of it being a "placeholder" or not. Those are simply fan speculations. Don't take it to serious.

[SilentMobius]

It can in Titan A.E.

Besides we have never seen whats under the warframe. So what a Tenno really is still stands as a mystery, and they could very well be just about anything.

 

The scrutiny I'm referring to are the following points of game lore:

 

* Vor's reverences to "tear a Tenno corpse from its metal womb" and "Your corpse will serve us well"

* Councilor Vey Hek's references to "Tenno bones will be the foundation of Grineer homes!", "Why are these fools still breathing my air?! THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!", "The first Grineer who brings me the head of a Tenno, will be permitted... TO WEAR ITS SKULL AS A HELMET!"

* Lephantis's reference to "your flesh"

* Sargas Ruk's references to "What flesh is within that Warframe? I will crush it. I will fill my lungs with your death!"

* Lieutenant Lech Kril's references to "Beneath those suits exist flesh. Flesh bleeds. (User) bleeds"

* The fact that blood squirts out of a Tenno-in-a-Warframe during a bleed proc

* The fact Tenno-in-a-Warframe visibly respire

 

All of this points to the Tenno retaining their organic physical form (As the dev stream confirmed that Tenno are indeed human or at least were) it would be really awkward to construct a scenario where Tenno are energy and yet all the above is accurate without fabricating some concept of "host bodies" or mock humans inside a Warframe, both of which have absolutely zero conceptual support.

[Sloan441]

I'll address these, since they're good points and worthy of discussion.

 

Vor's statement implies the Tenno are genetically engineered on some level and he thinks it could benefit the Grineer who are in dire straights genetically because of DNA degradation through cloning. If this problem was solved by the Orokin (and it's implied it was through what we know of kubrows), then something useful could be learned from the Tenno by the Grineer.

 

Hek is, obviously, inclined to hyperbole. His statements can be distilled down to trash talk and the basic view that the Tenno are a threat to the Grineer and need to be eliminated for Grineer security (and he's not wrong--my kill stats don't lie).

 

Lephantis isn't wrong. Both the infestation and the Tenno share an origin in the technocyte virus. Past that, the infestation were uncontrolled growth of the virus and the Tenno are a highly constrained application of it to a determined end.

 

The rest is smack talk but does imply that the speakers are aware that under the warframe the Tenno as basically human. They're an engineered and highly modified human, possibly mass produced by cloning, but still essentially human.

[SilentMobius]

I'll address these, since they're good points and worthy of discussion.

 

Vor's statement implies the Tenno are genetically engineered on some level and he thinks it could benefit the Grineer who are in dire straights genetically because of DNA degradation through cloning. If this problem was solved by the Orokin (and it's implied it was through what we know of kubrows), then something useful could be learned from the Tenno by the Grineer.

 

Hek is, obviously, inclined to hyperbole. His statements can be distilled down to trash talk and the basic view that the Tenno are a threat to the Grineer and need to be eliminated for Grineer security (and he's not wrong--my kill stats don't lie).

 

Lephantis isn't wrong. Both the infestation and the Tenno share an origin in the technocyte virus. Past that, the infestation were uncontrolled growth of the virus and the Tenno are a highly constrained application of it to a determined end.

 

The rest is smack talk but does imply that the speakers are aware that under the warframe the Tenno as basically human. They're an engineered and highly modified human, possibly mass produced by cloning, but still essentially human.

 

I don't agree with your conclusions, especially your assumptions regarding the Tenno and the technocyte virus. But all of that still assumes actual genetic material, and thus refutes the notion of "Energy-tenno" which is what I was talking about

[BrazilianJoe]

Huhhh I see too many theories about energy vs. genetics with a very shallow perspective. 

 

 

Forcefully applying a XOR choice to energy vs. genetics on the nature of the Tenno and Warframes is a fallacy. 

 

Just like we are material beings which may or may not have a spirit inside according to our beliefs. Let's assume we have a spirit for the sake of teh argument. 

 

What defines humanity? A living and a dead body have the same number of particles. What differentiates both would then be the spirit, which can be defined in so many ways. It can be understood of the core of the self, where conscience comes from. 

 

Spirit can immediately be correlated to Vor's statements of 'beings of pure energy'. 

 

In-game, Tenno can be a higher form of conscience, which can exist and interact to others without being a 'tortured soul' of horror stories, retaining its self, personality and integrity. This energy core would be 'immortal' and genderless, since gender is a way for a material vessel to produce another material vessel. 

 

Warframes would be vessels like the human body, based on genetics, technology and spooky Void physics. With eveolved consiences and perhaps a bit of technology helping hand, the Tenno energy-self can just move in and out of a Warframe. Warframes retain physical traits of the human bodies which were mutated by the technocyte to become them.

 

It seems that it a very rare occurrence to have the technocyte to have a stable bond to another organism in such a way that it preserves intellectual capacity and most of its species traits, but it hapens. That's why Tenno cannot be infected. They are already exposed, but they only got the good part of the technocyte effect, and none of the baddie hive-mind dripping flesh mindlessness shenanigans. 

 

There, pronto. 

 

Tenno being energy beings? True. Warframes as flesh and technology? Also true. In the end it's just my theory though, but i see all statements as essentially compatible.

[Etsoree]

Warframes do actually nothing ----- Tenno are its divine energy.  

 

False.

 

The game lore states Warframes enhance our abilities.

 

We also bleed; we are not energy. Energy does not bleed. Energy can be contained, yes, but why would it be limited in such a way? Why would we get downed if we are energy?

 

The Lotus said in the Hidden Messages quest she saw Mirage smiling. Be it the Warframe or the Tenno, we do not know, but we can assume it was the person wearing the Mirage 'Frame without a helmet.

[Farris]

I'm pretty sure that the name "Zero Tech suit" (From the Mag Prime Codex) is nothing special, I see no reason to assume it isn't simply inferring that the suit "contains zero technology", that is, a simple pressure suit with ballistic armour so the Sentients can't "turn it against them" (Much like sticking with melee, and chemical slug-throwers). Warframes do contain a _lot_ of technology, all powered and (seemingly) protected by the physics-defying power of the Void (coming from the Tenno pilot, as Vor says) but they certainly contain Orokin technology.

 

I'd also like to throw in my opinion that the game only really works from a single-Tenno-per-player perspective. If I were designing a LoL-style game where the players were collecting characters (Tenno-bound-into-one-Warframe) Then I would not design it with so many requirements for a single character POV as Warframe has.

 

IMHO the lore-reason that Tenno have no shape-related issues moving from one Warframe to another simply hasn't been revealed yet.

 

I'm going to say that IMHO the Stalker most likely exposed himself to the void and stole an Excalibur Warframe from a sleeping Tenno during the hundreds of years it was active while the Tenno slept. Given how bitter, twisted and crazy he is it fits the profile.

 

Spot on :D

 

 

 "Combat Formation Bravo!"

 

 

Ahhh good times, good times.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Farris

[SilentMobius]

Huhhh I see too many theories about energy vs. genetics with a very shallow perspective. 

 

 

Forcefully applying a XOR choice to energy vs. genetics on the nature of the Tenno and Warframes is a fallacy. 

 

Just like we are material beings which may or may not have a spirit inside according to our beliefs. Let's assume we have a spirit for the sake of teh argument. 

 

What defines humanity? A living and a dead body have the same number of particles. What differentiates both would then be the spirit, which can be defined in so many ways. It can be understood of the core of the self, where conscience comes from. 

 

Spirit can immediately be correlated to Vor's statements of 'beings of pure energy'. 

 

In-game, Tenno can be a higher form of conscience, which can exist and interact to others without being a 'tortured soul' of horror stories, retaining its self, personality and integrity. This energy core would be 'immortal' and genderless, since gender is a way for a material vessel to produce another material vessel. 

 

Warframes would be vessels like the human body, based on genetics, technology and spooky Void physics. With eveolved consiences and perhaps a bit of technology helping hand, the Tenno energy-self can just move in and out of a Warframe. Warframes retain physical traits of the human bodies which were mutated by the technocyte to become them.

 

It seems that it a very rare occurrence to have the technocyte to have a stable bond to another organism in such a way that it preserves intellectual capacity and most of its species traits, but it hapens. That's why Tenno cannot be infected. They are already exposed, but they only got the good part of the technocyte effect, and none of the baddie hive-mind dripping flesh mindlessness shenanigans. 

 

There, pronto. 

 

Tenno being energy beings? True. Warframes as flesh and technology? Also true. In the end it's just my theory though, but i see all statements as essentially compatible.

 

Still doesn't explain why the Warframe would still have a human-like "corpse" for Vor to pull out of the "metal womb" that will never fit well with the idea of energy Tenno.

 

It is possible...  sure. (But so it pink elephant Tenno who use void-space-compression to get into the Warframe). Is it likely given all the information in the game that does not fit well _and_ the complete lack of supporting information save one metaphorical expression from Vor.. no, not likely at all.

Edited October 8, 2014 by SilentMobius

[Xeo_Nespydonum]

In Mag Prime's codex entry there is a very clear distinction between Warframes and Zero Tech Soldiers.  The Zero Tech soldiers were terrified by the warframes first of all... second they make a point of saying the surviving zero tech soldier's face was visible rather than covered by a mask like a warframe's.

[Lost_Cartographer]

Tenno (standard issue warframes) could be clones of the primes, which would likely have been one-offs, EI, the originals, but for game play reasons, are available in mass as though trophies for having survived the Void.  I don't think lore wise there are any prime Warframes left to fight the Grineer and the Corpus.  Additionally, it would explain why every Excalibur is the same.  It would provide a source for the Grineer's rediscovery of cloning technology that they coincidentally don't fully understand, thus the need to clone clones instead of using fresh, new genetic material as necessary.  They're likely stuck to using specific DNA samples.  Since the female Grineer look MUCH more... together than the male Grineer, I'd dare to say that maybe the Queen's DNA plays a part in the female portion of the Grineer empire.

 

Now for some really important questions - what was the motivation behind the Sentients during the old war, and did the Sentients or the Orokin clone the Tenno that killed off the Orokin Empire?

Edited October 8, 2014 by Littleman88

[-Vane-]

Tenno (standard issue warframes) could be clones of the primes, which would likely have been one-offs, EI, the originals, but for game play reasons, are available in mass as though trophies for having survived the Void.  I don't think lore wise there are any prime Warframes left to fight the Grineer and the Corpus.  Additionally, it would explain why every Excalibur is the same.  It would provide a source for the Grineer's rediscovery of cloning technology that they coincidentally don't fully understand, thus the need to clone clones instead of using fresh, new genetic material as necessary.  They're likely stuck to using specific DNA samples.  Since the female Grineer look MUCH more... together than the male Grineer, I'd dare to say that maybe the Queen's DNA plays a part in the female portion of the Grineer empire.

 

Now for some really important questions - what was the motivation behind the Sentients during the old war, and did the Sentients or the Orokin clone the Tenno that killed off the Orokin Empire?

As you said, Tenno could be the clones of ordinary primes ( because there is only one original prime who was probably orokin) so, Orokins saw what they did to sentinents, they were probably afraid for themselves, in order to survive, orokins wanted to destroy Tenno once and for all. Lotus came and  alerted them all.