Sniper Rifles Are Awful?

[unsiezer]

I remember a few weeks back they said they buffed sniper rifles(atleast thats what I thought they said), but I still find that BOWS are more accurate+ higher damage by far, and the one assault rifle I use (bolter prime) IS More accurate with a max heavy calibur(20.1 ACC) in it then my vectis(13.3 ACC or 9 ACC with MAX HC) with out. and because of this I cant use vectis for any kind of range if I plan on maxing it out for damage. the only sniper rifle I find remotly good on accuracy and crit is Lanka, and even then I find I would rather use the MK1 Paris over every single sniper rifle in the game. WHY DO SNIPER RIFLES NOT HAVE THE HIGHEST ACCURACY IN THE GAME? I think Sniper rifles Need to be equaly as strong a bow  atleast. because I find in warframe BOW's seem to be the sniper mentality weapon. where as sniper rifles just feel like S#&$ty shotguns.

[varto]

yes i like to see sniper to get buffed becous 1 random rifel user and he outdamage you in no time sniper ar slow low damage and missing cost you a lot of time ( victus ) to reload  so ya sniper need a buff tbh i like to be the guy who take out heavy targets  from far to support my team that kill the small fish but to bad sniper ar BAD

[xethier]

sniper rifles are dead-on accurate via scope.

 

but with the lack of decent crit (comparable to bows), lackluster damage (compared to rifles), low cyclic rate & small clips (or no clips) with long reload times, there is no reason to prefer them to bows.

 

there are dozens of threads about how to fix this.

 

perhaps you'd like to offer some suggestions as to a solution?

[Boosted.Oreo]

Idk what type of build you have on your Vectis but mine is rather accurate with maxed heavy caliber on, i do from 16k to 90k crits (no strength abilities like roar sonar etc) and the only map i seem to miss a lot of shots is the open map in sechura (the big square one) 

 

sniper rifles are dead-on accurate via scope.

 

but with the lack of decent crit (comparable to bows), lackluster damage (compared to rifles), low cyclic rate & small clips (or no clips) with long reload times, there is no reason to prefer them to bows.

 

there are dozens of threads about how to fix this.

 

perhaps you'd like to offer some suggestions as to a solution?

increase the crit rate to match the bows and that's about it, most snipers are hit-scan while bows have travel time 

[archer_008]

my lanka is good got 3 forma on it 

 

and i love it so much :D

[xethier]

-snip-

increase the crit rate to match the bows and that's about it, most snipers are hit-scan while bows have travel time 

 

that would solve one problem, but bows would still be a better choice due to higher cyclic rate, and higher base damage.

 

many have advocated innate punch-through, scopes w/ special features (thermal vision / x-ray etc)

higher base damage, etc.

 

personally, i think sniper rifles just don't have much use until there are tile sets large enough to warrant their use.

[Alighierian]

first off: do not use the accuracy stat in the stat chart for comparisons like these

 

I won't decline HC abuses the accuracy from behind, but in general the 'acc' numbers seem to make little sense at all.

To find out how much HC affects a weapon, you just have to use it.

Penta, for one, only has an extra advantage (grenades bounce differently), the amprex doesn't care, but weapons like the vectis and the ogris go puke when you add a max HC.

 

 

 

I've used both bows and snipers (vectis, lanka, snipetron, paris prime, dread, pretty much the only one I haven't used is the normal snipetron) and bows out-do snipers in terms of damage and usefulness in the majority of the cases.

The snipers have the advantage of hitscan (apart from the lanka), but they have little to really exploit that.

Vectis can do good damage, but it utterly pales when you compare it to a HC/crit build paris prime.

 

the snipers really need an advantage which makes them worth using, for example to make it worth using the hitscan to hit weakspots.

Example of an improvement: an additional crit multiplier when a major weakspot is hit, like the head or exposed body part

[[DE]Momaw]

I remember a few weeks back they said they buffed sniper rifles(atleast thats what I thought they said), but I still find that BOWS are more accurate+ higher damage by far,

 

Technically, some of the sniper rifles can do more damage than a bow.  Vectis gets massive peformance gains from Charged Chamber,  and Lanka has ludicrous damage combined with ludicrous punchthrough. The problem:  They aren't reliable. Bows are reliable because every single shot will crit.  With the sniper rifles, even if you do your part as far as aiming, there is a very real chance that your shot will do only a fraction of the damage you hope for. The slower a weapon shoots, the less you can look at critical hits as a statistical buff;   either a shot crits and kills the target, or it doesn't and requires a second shot, which is exactly the same thing as just plain missing.

[Kalenath]

I generally play sneaky sniper types in every game that allows them.

 

I LIKE the sniper rifles in this game, but as others have said, the abilities that other weapons show outclass them.

 

The Lanka is probably the best end game sniper weapon currently, but he problem is fundamental. With my 5 Forma Snipetron or 4 Forma Snipetron Vandal, I can 1 shot almost anything if I hit a headshot up to lvl 75 or so. (I HAVE 1 shotted a lvl 125 Heavy Gunner with a multihit headshot.) But then the reload time. And while i am doing that... My team is killing everything else.

 

You are NEVER going to out-DPS an assault rifle with a sniper rifle. It is just NOT going to happen.

 

But that is not usually my job. My job is to pick priority targets and remove them with precise shots. 1 shot, one dead lvl 90 Corrupted Ancient or Heavy Gunner. Lanka, Vectis, Snipetron, Snipetron Vandal, even the Vulkar. These are my tools.

 

I am not a 'spray and pray-er'. I do not fire things that explode. I am a sniper. I WILL use bows when I solo, but generally I use my secondary until and unless I see a priority target. Then I act.

 

One shot. One kill.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Kalenath

[xethier]

-snip-

 

One shot. One kill.

 

that's part of the problem. when you've got 15+ eximus heavies trying to rip off your face at the same time.

[Wurdyburd]

A lot of people seem confused, "they said they buffed them but I went and tried them and they still suck". The did buff them. It just happened to not be enough.

 

Part of the problem is this: when the game featured smarter AI and fewer enemies, a sniper rifle was genuinely useful. Also, no room was large enough to cause any significant problems while using a sniper. As long as you found yourself a perch to survey a room with, you could do quite well.

NOW though. The game has dramatically shifted over the course of 10+ major updates to feature a swarm mentality: enemies are cannonfodder, but there's a lot of them, so when you get up to the higher levels it takes a little bit of effort to kill them all. Weapons like the Penta became popular due to the large AOE that it provides, and automatic weapons like the Boltor Prime deal high damage and a spray of bullets that can mow down a group in seconds.

Snipers, on the other hand, never made the transition. They're still designed for a game where there are 40% less enemies, headshots were highly rewarded, and it doesn't take 3 shots to take down high level heavy infantry.

 

The only way that snipers can become viable in a game like this is if the amount of enemies drop, snipers are somehow made to deal with groups, or snipers are given their own niche. As an example of this, built off existing mechanics: We get super-heavy infantry that has heavy armor so that you need reliable headshots to deal with it. Enemies that can't be killed simply by emptying an entire clip into it's chest. Snipers [if given high accuracy] could be a special unit, something the entire team won't take, that can take down these kinds of enemies far easier than normal weaponry can. Also, snipers could be given additional boosts by scoping, other than accuracy; for example: being in-scope provides a charge-up of both damage and punchthrough. Being in-scope longer is rewarded, which makes sense since in a game like this being scoped for too long would be suicide.

This change won't be enough to make snipers POPULAR, but it might be enough to make them useful in a way that other guns could not.

[Kalenath]

that's part of the problem. when you've got 15+ eximus heavies trying to rip off your face at the same time.

 

That is what teamwork is for.

 

Oh... wait. My bad. Teamwork has NO place in a co-op game. I know this. I just keep hoping...

Edited October 9, 2014 by Kalenath

[xethier]

That is what teamwork is for.

 

Oh... wait. My bad. Teamwork has NO place in a co-op game. I know this. I just keep hoping...

 

sure, but is it teamwork while you're taking out one mob while the rest of the group takes out the other 14?

 

at that point you "aren't holding up your end of the log"

in this case it wouldn't be your fault, but the fault of the weapon you're using being insufficient for the task at hand.

 

which is the entire problem with sniper rifles.

[Boosted.Oreo]

that would solve one problem, but bows would still be a better choice due to higher cyclic rate, and higher base damage.

 

many have advocated innate punch-through, scopes w/ special features (thermal vision / x-ray etc)

higher base damage, etc.

 

personally, i think sniper rifles just don't have much use until there are tile sets large enough to warrant their use.

Fair enough but i think that innate punch through on the snipers won't work since they are bullets (idk, my own logic lol) , and as i said i did full damage Vectis vs full damage Paris Prime and my Vectis won, mainly cause Vectis actually allows for more damage (bows require speed trigger), on weak spots i did 90k and on body shots i did 16k-20k while i did around the same for body on the bows i did around 30k less on head shots) and Vectis is a hit-scan weapon so it's easier to hit further targets 

[DrBorris]

Sniper rifles should be all base damage, no crit. This will make them predictable and different from bows. I made a detailed thread about how to buff Snipers better https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/313955-re-buff-the-snipers-same-dps-no-crits/#entry3552180

[Kalenath]

What if they came with automatic codex scanner/weak point tracker?

[sedu13]

That is what teamwork is for.

 

Oh... wait. My bad. Teamwork has NO place in a co-op game. I know this. I just keep hoping...

And then there was solo...

[Riot_Inducer]

One shot. One kill.

See that's the issue I'm finding with snipers, I would love for them to be reliable "One shot, one kill" weapons but they simply aren't at the moment. They've got good damage and decent critical chance, but not enough to make critical as reliable as bows are, and not enough damage to warrant forgoing critical hit mods altogether.

 

Now, I love my Vectis to death, it's honestly one of my favorite weapons in the game, but I just can't justify bringing into T4 stuff over the Dread. When I hit a T4 Heavy Gunner in the face with the Dread I know it's going to die, with the Vectis it *might* die if I get a critical but if I don't I'm going to be spending up to two additional shots to take it down, and that is very frustrating considering that my aim is true.

 

Snipers just need reliability in damage, either higher critical chances, making them to favor pure damage over crit or possibly even giving them 100% crit chances on headshots. Any of these would make snipers into a viable alternative to bows for "One shot, one kill" weapons.  

[Kalenath]

See that's the issue I'm finding with snipers, I would love for them to be reliable "One shot, one kill" weapons but they simply aren't at the moment. They've got good damage and decent critical chance, but not enough to make critical as reliable as bows are, and not enough damage to warrant forgoing critical hit mods altogether.

 

Now, I love my Vectis to death, it's honestly one of my favorite weapons in the game, but I just can't justify bringing into T4 stuff over the Dread. When I hit a T4 Heavy Gunner in the face with the Dread I know it's going to die, with the Vectis it *might* die if I get a critical but if I don't I'm going to be spending up to two additional shots to take it down, and that is very frustrating considering that my aim is true.

 

Snipers just need reliability in damage, either higher critical chances, making them to favor pure damage over crit or possibly even giving them 100% crit chances on headshots. Any of these would make snipers into a viable alternative to bows for "One shot, one kill" weapons.  

 

True.

 

I LOVE my Snipetron Vandal. But when Paris Prime outperforms it in almost every way? There is little point in bringing it. I don't do T4 regularly, most PUGs I play with couldn't handle T3, let alone T4.

 

I have played snipers in every game I could. Sniper rifles have ALWAYS been out-DPS-ed by assault rifles/shotguns/rocket launchers. But they are precise. Or they are supposed to be.

 

I would LOVE to see enemy weak spots highlighted in the scope like Banshee Sonar. Even if it is only +200% damage instead of +400% it would STILL rock. Being able to see enemies through cover would be cool too. ESPECIALLY with the Lanka!

 

'Oh you thought that crate was cover? SILLY Grineer!' *bang*

Edited October 9, 2014 by Kalenath

[notionphil]

 

One shot. One kill.

 

The problem with "one shot, one kill" is that many other weapons are "one [trigger pull], many kill".

 

Since you are a sniper afficionado, I'd like to get your feedback in my proposed sniper changes from the thread  Update 15: Art Of The Kill [Wishlist]

 

 

Snipers - added reliable damage and skill based utility

• All snipers automatically crit when hitting a weakspot. (it's up to you if you still want to add crit chance mods for body crits!)
• All snipers now have at least 1m punch through
• Sniper scopes are equipped with IR sensors, allowing faint outlines to be detected through objects
• Killing an enemy with a one-hit weakspot shot causes a gory death, causing a 1.5 second "frozen in terror" stun in all enemies within 3m who saw the death and are showered with the brain matter of their ally. Enemies can only be frozen in terror once every 10 seconds.

 

[Archistopheles]

I LOVE my Snipetron Vandal. But when Paris Prime outperforms it in almost every way?

*almost*

I bet I can kill 5 targets faster than you can Paris P vs Snipetron V.

I bet I can kill 1 target faster, too.

I bet I can land more headshots at 50+ meters. Hitscan, you know.

However, I do agree with your statement. I just wanted to get some shots in, sort to speak.

[BrazilianJoe]

I would never say that snipers are useless. Modding them properly they can do quite some damage, and they are supposed to take out the priority targets. 

 

They can be used just fine, and the recent buff was more than welcome. But I agree that they should have gotten more.

 

I'd happily load in a 'CODEX SCANNER' mod, where each sniper kill scans the target if it is still not completely scanned. 

 

Sniper Scopes were suggested as well, and giving them innate punch-through. None of these made it to snipers so far though. 

 

Snipers could get a bit more love, but they are already in a much better place now. 

[Troll_Logic]

I hate every single one of them.

 

Every.  Single.  One.  Of.  Them.

[Antikonos]

*almost*

I bet I can kill 5 targets faster than you can Paris P vs Snipetron V.

I bet I can kill 1 target faster, too.

I bet I can land more headshots at 50+ meters. Hitscan, you know.

However, I do agree with your statement. I just wanted to get some shots in, sort to speak.

No one's here for competition, we're brainstorming ways to improve our favorite kinds of weapons. Anyway, i think its helpful to lay down some ground rules. One: we need to establish what we want sniper rifles to be, especially in comparison to the bows. Then we should establish how they fail to reach those expectations as a whole. Then we can suggest multiple possible solutions on a per weapon basis. If we can coordinate and draft a clear, concise, idea of what we want and how to achieve it, then we might be able to get the attention of the devs.

[Kalenath]

Well, considering that sniper scopes TODAY can see through walls, in the dark and target weak spots...

 

I think having a scope that can see though cover and target weak spots like Banshee's Sonar (if not QUITE as potent) would be a good start.

 

I have known real life snipers (Police and military). They are precise. They are ALL about precision. So we need our in game sniper rifles to be precise and VERY powerful but only for short durations. As I said, a sniper rifle will never out-DPS an assault rifle. They are not meant to.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Kalenath